Who is the greatest of all time if.......

...you only take the fighters best three fights into consideration?

Should throw up some interesting debate!

1. Ali - Liston......Foreman...Frazier.................

2. Charles - Burley..........Moore....Moore.....

3. Langford - Ketchel......Wills.....Gans.......

4. Leonard - Hearns......Duran............Hagler.......

If you rate fighters based on who they beat (which you surely must) then this exercise will probably throw up most of the consensus all-time top ten.

This is quite difficult and not very accurate. For example:

Floyd - Cotto, Manny, SSM/JMM

Three best fighters of their generation arguably and Floyd beat them all. It doesn't acc for weight or age.

But if I'd to say one I'd have to say Leonard. I think that Duran, Hearns and Hagler are some of the finest wins you'll find on any resume. Hagler in particular considering the 3 year lay off before the fight.

Pedro147 wrote:This is quite difficult and not very accurate. For example:

Floyd - Cotto, Manny, SSM/JMM

Three best fighters of their generation arguably and Floyd beat them all. It doesn't acc for weight or age.

But if I'd to say one I'd have to say Leonard. I think that Duran, Hearns and Hagler are some of the finest wins you'll find on any resume. Hagler in particular considering the 3 year lay off before the fight.

Agreed. His best three wins are probably: Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo.

Sweet Pea:

Chavez, Ramirez and ODLH

Record books may not be so kind but he won!

Leonard:

Duran,Hearns,Hagler

Ali- Liston,Frazier,Foreman

You do get some interesting left field picks under this though. As an example I'd give you Jimmy Bivins

Charles - Moore - Burley.

Marciano: Louis,Charles,Moore

Louis was old but great name on resume.

Rowley, been holidaying at Costa del Bridlington or something? Not seen you for a couple of weeks.

Ezzard Charles: Joe Louis, Archie Moore, Jimmy Bivins

Lewis: Holyfield,Tyson,Vitali

hazharrison wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:This is quite difficult and not very accurate. For example:

Floyd - Cotto, Manny, SSM/JMM

Three best fighters of their generation arguably and Floyd beat them all. It doesn't acc for weight or age.

But if I'd to say one I'd have to say Leonard. I think that Duran, Hearns and Hagler are some of the finest wins you'll find on any resume. Hagler in particular considering the 3 year lay off before the fight.

Agreed. His best three wins are probably: Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo.

Leonard's are Dave Boy Green, Kalule and Finch..

I know I am going to take flak for this, but what the hell.

Leonard is one of the greatest ever without question. However if he can come back after a 3 year layoff and beat Hagler, does that make Hagler a tad overrated, as well as show how great SRL really is.

Duran also pushed him.

Hagler had an inferiority problem when it came to Leonard and Duran....He was never regarded as in their league..

Had to show them how good he was..........

Marvin never thought he got enough credit......Watch the interview with Bernstein after the Hearns fight......Very revealing..

Hagler was a fantastic fighter, tough as nails but he is definitely not as great as many believe him to be.

Imo Jones would beat him at Mw, with plenty to spare and Hopkins is 50:50.

Losing to Jones jr who I think beats any middle in history apart from the Nunn that beat Tate....is no crime....

Pick Hoppo over Hagler by decision..........

Hagler was a great fighter shame he wasn't more ambitious..

I agree, not knocking Marvin. If he were around now he would be MW champion. Just I see his name mentioned as the greatest Middle.

His record is right up there but on a head to head, no chance. Couldn't imagine SRL or Duran pushing Jones JR at Middle.

Jones Jr would beat anyone at middleweight, for sure.

Not sure Marvin would beat GGG ...........

Apart from getting lucky that Hearns wobbled him early and lost his head.........Can't see anyone Hagler beat who was better...

We moan about cherrypicking fighters these days...........But Hagler's reign.. Hearns and sibson apart.... was 7 years of crap..

How would Hagler do against the body snatcher or Toney??

McCallum claims to this day Hagler ducked him...........Whether I believe him who knows..

Depends which Toney turns up..

Toney at his best could beat him. He would frustrate him McCallum would be a tough fight for sure.

AdamT wrote:Toney at his best could beat him. He would frustrate him McCallum would be a tough fight for sure.

Be a war of wills.................I wouldn't want to call it.....Mccallum was three inches taller and a better bodypuncher..

AdamT wrote:Toney at his best could beat him. He would frustrate him McCallum would be a tough fight for sure.

Equally Hagler at his best could beat Toney, I rate McCallum but Hagler outpoints him, Bomber Graham only lost to McCallum because of a point deduction for stupidity.

Nico the gman wrote:

AdamT wrote:Toney at his best could beat him. He would frustrate him McCallum would be a tough fight for sure.

Equally Hagler at his best could beat Toney, I rate McCallum but Hagler outpoints him, Bomber Graham only lost to McCallum because of a point deduction for stupidity.

Graham was a top quality boxer...Not sure the relevance with Hagler....

Don't think the Leonard that beat Hagler in 87 was better than Graham............

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

Nico the gman wrote:

AdamT wrote:Toney at his best could beat him. He would frustrate him McCallum would be a tough fight for sure.

Equally Hagler at his best could beat Toney, I rate McCallum but Hagler outpoints him, Bomber Graham only lost to McCallum because of a point deduction for stupidity.

Graham was a top quality boxer...Not sure the relevance with Hagler....

Don't think the Leonard that beat Hagler in 87 was better than Graham............

The relevance is that Hagler was a much better boxer than he's given credit for, not just some brawler who liked to mix it, talk of a prime Hagler being frustrated by other fighters is way off the mark for me.

He was a good boxer but no more...

Not as good as he thought he was...

Jack of all trades in fairness though.

Haglar was a Froch type fighter back then.

Not fast
tough as nails
Not technically gifted
Granite chin
Insecure, almost delusional with regards to his standing a boxer
Great to watch

I loved Marv but TRUSS is right about him.

Hagler's  best attributes for me,

Accurate jolting right jab,
Combination punching was quality,
Great finisher when he had his opponent going,
Superb stamina over 15 rounds
Teak Tough
Granite chin,

Hagler was no Leonard but still feel he's a better boxer than given credit for, can't believe anyone can call him overrated, faced all his mandatory's and beat them comfortably, then blasted Hearns out, virtually wiped a division out.

Hagler is a vastly underrated technical fighter. He was probably the finest switch-hitter of all time - he was far more than the brawler he ultimately became as he slowed down towards the tail-end of his career.

He was one of the greatest middleweights in history (he outranks all those mentioned). Like Louis, he gets vastly discredited on here. Another anomaly in the twilight zone of boxing forums.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Not sure Marvin would beat GGG ...........

Apart from getting lucky that Hearns wobbled him early and lost his head.........Can't see anyone Hagler beat who was better...

We moan about cherrypicking fighters these days...........But Hagler's reign.. Hearns and sibson apart.... was 7 years of crap..

Hagler wouldn't beat a fighter you claim has made a career out of fighting nobodies? Your hypocrisy is astonishing.

Robinson: Angott, Gavilán, La Motta.

Can't see how Louis get's underrated. Most have him as number 2 at heavyweight.

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

Pedro147 wrote:This is quite difficult and not very accurate. For example:

Floyd - Cotto, Manny, SSM/JMM

Three best fighters of their generation arguably and Floyd beat them all. It doesn't acc for weight or age.

But if I'd to say one I'd have to say Leonard. I think that Duran, Hearns and Hagler are some of the finest wins you'll find on any resume. Hagler in particular considering the 3 year lay off before the fight.

Agreed. His best three wins are probably: Hernandez, Corrales, Castillo.

Leonard's are Dave Boy Green, Kalule and Finch..

Na. Hearns, Benitez, Hagler.

AdamT wrote:Can't see how Louis get's underrated. Most have him as number 2 at heavyweight.

Flick through some past posts - he is vastly underrated in this strange corner of the universe.

Mate I think most are comparing him to Ali, so play down his achievements, me included.

I personally rank Johnson higher. He was a genius.

Nico the gman wrote:Hagler's  best attributes for me,

Accurate jolting right jab,
Combination punching was quality,
Great finisher when he had his opponent going,
Superb stamina over 15 rounds
Teak Tough
Granite chin,

Hagler was no Leonard but still feel he's a better boxer than given credit for, can't believe anyone can call him overrated, faced all his mandatory's and beat them comfortably, then blasted Hearns out, virtually wiped a division out.

His ability to switch stances was one of his main strengths for me - he was pulling the Fitzimmons switch way before the Soviet fighters.

hazharrison wrote:Hagler is a vastly underrated technical fighter. He was probably the finest switch-hitter of all time - he was far more than the brawler he ultimately became as he slowed down towards the tail-end of his career.

He was one of the greatest middleweights in history (he outranks all those mentioned). Like Louis, he gets vastly discredited on here. Another anomaly in the twilight zone of boxing forums.

100% spot on Haz, not even questionable, one of the greatest middleweights of all time.

AdamT wrote:Mate I think most are comparing him to Ali, so play down his achievements, me included.

I personally rank Johnson higher. He was a genius.

What are you ranking them on exactly? Johnson was a pioneer but his body of work doesn't compare to Louis's. Louis holds the greatest championship run in boxing history.

I think Johnson had ability before his time. Plus he could held title longer, if he got his shot quicker.

Louis had the longevity but I like Johnson. I am a tad biased because unforgivable blackness is one of my fav books.

I've questioned the pool of talent in his division once he became champion, I've had endless debates on the Leonard fight. However, I've never been in any doubt about how great a fighter hagler was in his prime. I don't see many on here under-rating him as it goes.

Replace hagler for Louis, Leonard for conn, and I could make a similar statement about Louis.

Jack Johnson - Langford, McVey , Jeanette

milkyboy wrote:I've questioned the pool of talent in his division once he became champion, I've had endless debates on the Leonard fight. However, I've never been in any doubt about how great a fighter hagler was in his prime. I don't see many on here under-rating him as it goes.

Replace hagler for Louis, Leonard for conn, and I could make a similar statement about Louis.

Hagler's opposition is often run down on here and his boxing ability is often overlooked - mainly from the usual suspects who formed their opinions from watching a Fabulous Four DVD.

The issue I have with Johnson is not his ability, but if you look at his title reign in terms of opponents, whilst some such as O'Brien are probably a bit better than the modern reading credits them, they were by no means the best of the era. Jack beat the likes of Langford, Jeannette and McVea on the way up but showed little to no inclination to do so as a champion, when most of these guys, certainly Langford had improved.

Can accept he was frequently getting similar money for lesser challenges so you can understand it, but his defences certainly did not represent the best the era had to offer. The same most certainly cannot be said of Louis, who fought pretty much everyone available.

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I've questioned the pool of talent in his division once he became champion, I've had endless debates on the Leonard fight. However, I've never been in any doubt about how great a fighter hagler was in his prime. I don't see many on here under-rating him as it goes.

Replace hagler for Louis, Leonard for conn, and I could make a similar statement about Louis.

Hagler's opposition is often run down on here and his boxing ability is often overlooked - mainly from the usual suspects who formed their opinions from watching a Fabulous Four DVD.

Listen you pitiful fanboy.....I know more about Marvin than you'll ever know.....I've met him and read more articles than you could ever dream of...Also watched all the build up to his fights and his fights....Also watched his opponents on ESPN and ABC etc

He lived half an hour up the road..

D**KH**D

It's Friday Truss, play nice please.

Rowley wrote:It's Friday Truss, play nice please.

Come on man.....He's a tool.

There are those on here (not me obviously, I love everyone) who might say the same about you mate. We should still try and be nice to each other.

Rowley wrote:There are those on here (not me obviously, I love everyone) who might say the same about you mate. We should still try and be nice to each other.

I know I'm a tool...That's the difference...

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I've questioned the pool of talent in his division once he became champion, I've had endless debates on the Leonard fight. However, I've never been in any doubt about how great a fighter hagler was in his prime. I don't see many on here under-rating him as it goes.

Replace hagler for Louis, Leonard for conn, and I could make a similar statement about Louis.

Hagler's opposition is often run down on here and his boxing ability is often overlooked - mainly from the usual suspects who formed their opinions from watching a Fabulous Four DVD.

Listen you pitiful fanboy.....I know more about Marvin than you'll ever know.....I've met him and read more articles than you could ever dream of...Also watched all the build up to his fights and his fights....Also watched his opponents on ESPN and ABC etc

He lived half an hour up the road..

D**KH**D

Feel free to reveal yourself as Alan Partridge's biggest fan but don't hurl insults from behind a keyboard. They call people like that gobshites from where I'm from. Cowardly business trolling.

hazharrison wrote:

TRUSSMAN66 wrote:

hazharrison wrote:

milkyboy wrote:I've questioned the pool of talent in his division once he became champion, I've had endless debates on the Leonard fight. However, I've never been in any doubt about how great a fighter hagler was in his prime. I don't see many on here under-rating him as it goes.

Replace hagler for Louis, Leonard for conn, and I could make a similar statement about Louis.

Hagler's opposition is often run down on here and his boxing ability is often overlooked - mainly from the usual suspects who formed their opinions from watching a Fabulous Four DVD.

Listen you pitiful fanboy.....I know more about Marvin than you'll ever know.....I've met him and read more articles than you could ever dream of...Also watched all the build up to his fights and his fights....Also watched his opponents on ESPN and ABC etc

He lived half an hour up the road..

D**KH**D

Feel free to reveal yourself as Alan Partridge's biggest fan but don't hurl insults from behind a keyboard. They call people like that gobshites from where I'm from. Cowardly business trolling.

Yeah I'm 5ft 6 and 7 stone................You've found me out..............In fact I look a bit like you in that picture with Holyfield..

Piltdown man eat your heart out !!