Ospreys 2015/16 Season

by wayne Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:43 pm

First topic message reminder :

Never done one of these here before, yet cannot do any worse than last years idiot.
Head Coach Steve Tandy
Backs Coach Gruff Rees
Forwards Coach Chris Gibbes
Squad Alphabetically
TYLER ARDRON 24 Back Row Rhodri Hughes 20 Lock
Dimitri Arhip 26 Prop PAUL JAMES 33 Prop
Lloyd Ashley (Peers) 24 Lock AARON JARVIS 29 Prop
Dan Baker 23 Back Row Ben John 24 Centre
SCOTT BALDWIN 27 Hooker ALUN WYN JONES 29 Lock
Adam Beard 19 Lock JAMES KING 25 Back Row
Joe Bearman 36 Back Row Brendon Leonard 30 S/H
Ashley Beck 25 Centre DAN LYDIATE 27 Back Row
Rynier Bernardo 24 Lock JOSH MATAVESI 24 Centre
Ryan Bevington 26 Prop Scott Otten 21 Hooker
DAN BIGGAR 25 OH Sam Parry 23 Hooker
Andrew Bishop 30 Centre Kristian Phillips 24 Wing
Jordan Collier 20 Back Row Martin Roberts 29 S/H
Olly Cracknell 21 Back Row Nicky Smith 21 Prop
Sam Davies 21 O/H Johnathon Spratt 29 Centre
Gareth Delve 32 Back Row De Kock Steenkamp 28 Lock
Hanno Dirksen 24 Wing Dan Suter 23 Prop
Mathew Dwyer 30 Hooker Gareth Thomas 23 Prop
Dan Evans 26 F/B Marc Thomas 25 Prop
Lloyd Evans 24 Back Row Rory Thornton 20 Lock
Richard Fussell 31 F/B JUSTIN TIPURIC 26 Back Row
Tom Grabham 24 Wing Eli Walker 23 Wing
Cai Griffiths 31 Prop RHYS WEBB 26 S/H
Tom Habberfield 23 S/H The following 2 are either temporary
JEFF HASSLER 24 Wing or with feeder clubs
Dafydd Howells 20 Wing Sam Underhill 19 Back Row
Oliver Tomaszczyk 28 Prop
The players in CAPITALS will not be available until after the first 3 games of the Guinness League due to WC call ups
The past 5 seasons we have finished 3, 5, 3, 3 and 4 at the end of the regular season, I envision us finishing around the same position this season.
We will also be without Bernardo and Suter for a while early season, we have recruited Tomaszczyk to cover Suter, Underhill came on as a substitute in the Saracens friendly and there were favourable reports about him. If we have injuries in a few key positions especially early season, that prophecy above could be out the window. There has been talk we have signed a T/H from NZ, who had a serious ankle ligament injury, we are still waiting on his rehab. It needs to be soon or we will have to rely on Jarvis, which is not a good thought.
Just to add we won our first 7 matches last season, against most peoples and my expectations, and it will be more of a shock to me if we win either of our first 2 matches this season. Too many missing through injury and International call ups.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:25 pm

exile jack wrote:Wayne,i'm trying to avoid commenting on O's coaching,Rob Howley and Rhys Priestland.Can't disagree with you on the bad signings that either hardly ever played or played poorly.Given what I saw in Cork the combination of Matavesi and Engelbrecht is one of great potential,so signing JJE should be a priority.If what the O's produced in Cork is the end product of the O's coaching team over 4 years and can be reproduced consistently there will be no more debate over Ospreylia coaching.It takes a lot to impress Munster fans at home and they were impressed on Sunday.On your DoR point if a Head Coach is good enough to be a Head Coach what will the DoR do?

Jack, nobody seems to know what the roles of certain people are, especially recruiment, some reckon it is a committee of Hore, Tandy and Millward and others differ, there is nobody that believes it is a one man operation, and that is what a DOR would oversee, and that would have to be an experienced person, a few are promoting somebody like the old Swansea coach Plumtree or somebody like him, leaving Steve to the on field hands on coaching, look why would players like AWJ, Biggar, Webb stay if they were getting sub standard coaching, they are obviously not, some of the recruitment as I've already shown has and still is pretty poor in amongst the gems, we need someone with a proven track record, NOT someone like Scott Johnson, who never had or ever will have the expertise to do that kind of job.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 4:35 pm

LordDowlais wrote:I thought Owen Watkin was the better center on Sunday when he came on, I hope Matavesi or Engelbrecht do not get in the way of his development, I would hate to see another Welsh player feeling he might need to ply his trade elsewhere to get more game time.

FFS Lord the boy is 19, and Engelbrecht is signed until the end of this season, probably so we can have a decent look at him and vice versa, after the almighty mess over the Delve signing and also the unlucky series of events surrounding Steenkamp who can blame us, he is on the sidelines watching 2 pretty decent centres and then given 20 or so minutes to show what he can do, I don't see what's wrong with it.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:01 pm

True Raven wrote:Thing is though Wayne, if we're restricted on our NWQ's then the crap welsh signings are going to continue unless we poach top players for other teams and after the Scott Williams saga, that's not going to go down to well.

Once Josh is fit as he cant cope with 80 mins at the moment for some reason, him and JJ look like they could be electric but we are now at our limit of NWQ's so we can only sign crap welsh players who no other region want or stick two fingers to the WRU and buy in more NWQ

TR, we did nothing wrong on the Scott Williams saga, Gatland wanted him on a DC, which an English club was going to beat, so we went in after him, which was then matched by the Scarlets, by all accounts the WRU has a ceiling for different levels of players Scott was not at the same level as say AWJ, if we hadn't had gone in Scott would have been short changed by his own Governing body, IIRC there was an increase of £30,000 above the WRU offer, so Scott should actually thank us for our input, at the time of this going on, Scarlet Spiderman put on here that we had done nothing wrong as it was just business, as for upsetting others on here or anywhere else I couldn't care less mate, the only thing that matters for me is for the Ospreys well being.
I think I read somewhere we've had special dispensation from the WRU for a recent signing, what are the limits for NWQ and time servers is it 6 and 2 we have Bernardo and Fia that could be put into the time servers, with Hassler, Ardron, Arhip, Matavesi, Engelbrecht,and Leonard, is there anybody else? I know Underhill doesn't come into it because he is signed to Bridgend and only plays with us on permit, perhaps this is why there is talk of us signing Knoyle, I know Leonard was poor on Sunday but he's still a step up on him.
It was a bit too subtle for most on here but the 2 interviews that Andrew Hore put on Ospreys TV a few weeks ago was all to do with this, in the first PA from 5 or 6 years ago those figures were for match day squads, the recent one (last year) it is for total in the squad and AH wants to go back to the original concept, whether he can do it is another matter.

by True Raven Tue Feb 16, 2016 5:59 pm

Yeah that was my understanding too. Allowing us more NWQ isn't going to turn us into Toulon because we haven't the finances to build that team so we would still rely on our development of young players but we could weed out the likes of spratt, Jarvis etc and not have to buy kristian Phillips and Rhodri Jones etc thus have a stronger squad

Who's this new signing then?

by exile jack Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:12 pm

wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:Wayne,i'm trying to avoid commenting on O's coaching,Rob Howley and Rhys Priestland.Can't disagree with you on the bad signings that either hardly ever played or played poorly.Given what I saw in Cork the combination of Matavesi and Engelbrecht is one of great potential,so signing JJE should be a priority.If what the O's produced in Cork is the end product of the O's coaching team over 4 years and can be reproduced consistently there will be no more debate over Ospreylia coaching.It takes a lot to impress Munster fans at home and they were impressed on Sunday.On your DoR point if a Head Coach is good enough to be a Head Coach what will the DoR do?
Jack, nobody seems to know what the roles of certain people are, especially recruiment, some reckon it is a committee of Hore, Tandy and Millward and others differ, there is nobody that believes it is a one man operation, and that is what a DOR would oversee, and that would have to be an experienced person, a few are promoting somebody like the old Swansea coach Plumtree or somebody like him, leaving Steve to the on field hands on coaching, look why would players like AWJ, Biggar, Webb stay if they were getting sub standard coaching, they are obviously not, some of the recruitment as I've already shown has and still is pretty poor in amongst the gems, we need someone with a proven track record, NOT someone like Scott Johnson, who never had or ever will have the expertise to do that kind of job.

Wayne,I'd hate to see a DoR become another layer of management.A DoR with an accomplished CV who could professionally 'coach the coaches' would be fine for me.You'd hope the coaching team would have input on player selection and development.Your point on coaching raises the issue of whether great players are the making of good coaches or good coaches make great players.Another thread perhaps.

Responding to our earlier exchange i'd say:
-it took several years for Gethin and Adam to reach their peak and Dan today is an entirely different animal to 5 years ago;
-Gethin can scrummage but coaching has not removed all of his technique issues(even with Danny W at the Blues);
-i think it was either Rees or Tandy who said recently that Arhip had been a work in progress they'd spent 2 years on.

On Rhodri,let's give him the first half of next season to see whether he can hack it or not as a TH.Then we'll know which of Gats or Danny W are right.If not,it'll be a pint on me.

To reiterate,all credit to the players AND coaches for Sunday's win.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 6:22 pm

True Raven wrote:Yeah that was my understanding too. Allowing us more NWQ isn't going to turn us into Toulon because we haven't the finances to build that team so we would still rely on our development of young players but we could weed out the likes of spratt, Jarvis etc and not have to buy kristian Phillips and Rhodri Jones etc thus have a stronger squad

Who's this new signing then?

I don't understand your last sentence, if your referring to the part where I said the WRU gave us special dispensation, it might have been for JJ or somebody else, really can't remember.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 7:08 pm

exile jack wrote:
wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:Wayne,i'm trying to avoid commenting on O's coaching,Rob Howley and Rhys Priestland.Can't disagree with you on the bad signings that either hardly ever played or played poorly.Given what I saw in Cork the combination of Matavesi and Engelbrecht is one of great potential,so signing JJE should be a priority.If what the O's produced in Cork is the end product of the O's coaching team over 4 years and can be reproduced consistently there will be no more debate over Ospreylia coaching.It takes a lot to impress Munster fans at home and they were impressed on Sunday.On your DoR point if a Head Coach is good enough to be a Head Coach what will the DoR do?
Jack, nobody seems to know what the roles of certain people are, especially recruiment, some reckon it is a committee of Hore, Tandy and Millward and others differ, there is nobody that believes it is a one man operation, and that is what a DOR would oversee, and that would have to be an experienced person, a few are promoting somebody like the old Swansea coach Plumtree or somebody like him, leaving Steve to the on field hands on coaching, look why would players like AWJ, Biggar, Webb stay if they were getting sub standard coaching, they are obviously not, some of the recruitment as I've already shown has and still is pretty poor in amongst the gems, we need someone with a proven track record, NOT someone like Scott Johnson, who never had or ever will have the expertise to do that kind of job.

Wayne,I'd hate to see a DoR become another layer of management.A DoR with an accomplished CV who could professionally 'coach the coaches' would be fine for me.You'd hope the coaching team would have input on player selection and development.Your point on coaching raises the issue of whether great players are the making of good coaches or good coaches make great players.Another thread perhaps.

Responding to our earlier exchange i'd say:
-it took several years for Gethin and Adam to reach their peak and Dan today is an entirely different animal to 5 years ago;
-Gethin can scrummage but coaching has not removed all of his technique issues(even with Danny W at the Blues);
-i think it was either Rees or Tandy who said recently that Arhip had been a work in progress they'd spent 2 years on.

On Rhodri,let's give him the first half of next season to see whether he can hack it or not as a TH.Then we'll know which of Gats or Danny W are right.If not,it'll be a pint on me.

To reiterate,all credit to the players AND coaches for Sunday's win.

Jack, besides the recruitment issues I've mentioned which you must admit are not satisfactory, there has been general disquiet about the selection of certain players, when they have been shown to be totally inadequate for this level of Rugby over a few seasons. Many teams have the level of coaching that I and the majority on the Forum are asking for, we've struggled in the scrum for a few seasons now apart from the time Dmitri and Nicky started last season and with the addition of Assey, apart from a couple of times our stopping of opposition rolling mauls and the use of such a ploy ourselves is few and far between, a proper DOR would oversee these sort of procedures.
As well as Tandy and the rest have done with the finances at their disposal, in between last season and this Tandy, Rees and Tom Smith spent about 2 to 3 weeks in OZ and NZ watching different systems of playing and training, all this helps, but you have to remember the only Coaching experience Steve had before taking over as HC at the Ospreys was with Bridgend RFC and a couple of games overseeing the Ospreys in LV or whatever it was called, to then expect him and the other 2 to jump to the level their now at is unfair IMO. They have done a fantastic job and I believe they need experienced help to not only help them but the organisation as a whole.
We'll have to agree to disagree on Gethin, he never was and still is not a top class scrummager, it's his other attributes that keeps him ahead of the pack, Adam is the exact opposite it was only Steve Hansen that saved his career as he has said on many occasions it was down to his conditioning.
As for Dan, I don't see the player your talking about, he played the same way 5 years ago as today apart for 2 things the kick and chase and being slightly less petulant, he's still the man running the show whether it's the AWJ and WRUburton's today or the TiaTias and Hollah 5 years ago. It was only the inexcusable dressing down in PUBLIC that Howley gave to both him and Richie Rees a few years ago that upset his mojo for a few months, he should have been in the Welsh team regularly at least 3 years ago.
Arhip as you say was a work in progress, and don't forget he had about a year out with Achilles problems, but he had cult status with the Ospreys before that time, he's loved with us, as for Rhodri, sorry, if Dmitri and Fia are available the only gametime he'd get from me would be in the LV.

by exile jack Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:19 pm

wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:
wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:Wayne,i'm trying to avoid commenting on O's coaching,Rob Howley and Rhys Priestland.Can't disagree with you on the bad signings that either hardly ever played or played poorly.Given what I saw in Cork the combination of Matavesi and Engelbrecht is one of great potential,so signing JJE should be a priority.If what the O's produced in Cork is the end product of the O's coaching team over 4 years and can be reproduced consistently there will be no more debate over Ospreylia coaching.It takes a lot to impress Munster fans at home and they were impressed on Sunday.On your DoR point if a Head Coach is good enough to be a Head Coach what will the DoR do?
Jack, nobody seems to know what the roles of certain people are, especially recruiment, some reckon it is a committee of Hore, Tandy and Millward and others differ, there is nobody that believes it is a one man operation, and that is what a DOR would oversee, and that would have to be an experienced person, a few are promoting somebody like the old Swansea coach Plumtree or somebody like him, leaving Steve to the on field hands on coaching, look why would players like AWJ, Biggar, Webb stay if they were getting sub standard coaching, they are obviously not, some of the recruitment as I've already shown has and still is pretty poor in amongst the gems, we need someone with a proven track record, NOT someone like Scott Johnson, who never had or ever will have the expertise to do that kind of job.

Wayne,I'd hate to see a DoR become another layer of management.A DoR with an accomplished CV who could professionally 'coach the coaches' would be fine for me.You'd hope the coaching team would have input on player selection and development.Your point on coaching raises the issue of whether great players are the making of good coaches or good coaches make great players.Another thread perhaps.

Responding to our earlier exchange i'd say:
-it took several years for Gethin and Adam to reach their peak and Dan today is an entirely different animal to 5 years ago;
-Gethin can scrummage but coaching has not removed all of his technique issues(even with Danny W at the Blues);
-i think it was either Rees or Tandy who said recently that Arhip had been a work in progress they'd spent 2 years on.

On Rhodri,let's give him the first half of next season to see whether he can hack it or not as a TH.Then we'll know which of Gats or Danny W are right.If not,it'll be a pint on me.

To reiterate,all credit to the players AND coaches for Sunday's win.
Jack, besides the recruitment issues I've mentioned which you must admit are not satisfactory, there has been general disquiet about the selection of certain players, when they have been shown to be totally inadequate for this level of Rugby over a few seasons. Many teams have the level of coaching that I and the majority on the Forum are asking for, we've struggled in the scrum for a few seasons now apart from the time Dmitri and Nicky started last season and with the addition of Assey, apart from a couple of times our stopping of opposition rolling mauls and the use of such a ploy ourselves is few and far between, a proper DOR would oversee these sort of procedures.
As well as Tandy and the rest have done with the finances at their disposal, in between last season and this Tandy, Rees and Tom Smith spent about 2 to 3 weeks in OZ and NZ watching different systems of playing and training, all this helps, but you have to remember the only Coaching experience Steve had before taking over as HC at the Ospreys was with Bridgend RFC and a couple of games overseeing the Ospreys in LV or whatever it was called, to then expect him and the other 2 to jump to the level their now at is unfair IMO. They have done a fantastic job and I believe they need experienced help to not only help them but the organisation as a whole.
We'll have to agree to disagree on Gethin, he never was and still is not a top class scrummager, it's his other attributes that keeps him ahead of the pack, Adam is the exact opposite it was only Steve Hansen that saved his career as he has said on many occasions it was down to his conditioning.
As for Dan, I don't see the player your talking about, he played the same way 5 years ago as today apart for 2 things the kick and chase and being slightly less petulant, he's still the man running the show whether it's the AWJ and WRUburton's today or the TiaTias and Hollah 5 years ago. It was only the inexcusable dressing down in PUBLIC that Howley gave to both him and Richie Rees a few years ago that upset his mojo for a few months, he should have been in the Welsh team regularly at least 3 years ago.
Arhip as you say was a work in progress, and don't forget he had about a year out with Achilles problems, but he had cult status with the Ospreys before that time, he's loved with us, as for Rhodri, sorry, if Dmitri and Fia are available the only gametime he'd get from me would be in the LV.

Wayne,i've said before that the O's selection policy is opaque and has resulted in odd recruitment.I'm alarmed if it's still opaque and the coaching team have little or no input into it.

As you describe the DoR role I see it as 'coaching the coaches'.Fine by me as long as it's not jobs for the boys.

If the O's coaches can consistently deliver the level of performance we got on Sunday there is no debate over coaching.

You must agree surely that Gethin and Adam took a long time to reach their peak and that Dan was not an international standard 10 five years ago.Rhodri is only 24 and has played for Wales 13 times.Let's see whether the O's coaches can coach him to the required TH standard.

by wayne Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:02 pm

Jack, yes both Adam and Gethin reached their peaks years later as did most props in the International arena,very few reached the top in their early twenties, it's normally around the late twenties early thirties, nothing unusual there.
As for Dan, in 2009/10 season he played 26 times for us around half starting and the other half off the bench.
2010/11 he played 28 times twice as a sub the rest starting, he'd replaced Hook in the first season for us and I don't remember exactly when but he had won caps for Wales then, there was a lot of talk between Priestland and him for the reserve to Jones for the Welsh spot, which fair play to Rhys he took with open arms in one of the warm up games, but IMO Dan was ready for that step up and yes he was International class 5 years ago, he had already surpassed one of the joint incumbants for the Wales position Hook, at his own club, he was controlling International players at the Ospreys just as much as he is now, it was only the ludicrous intervention of Howley in the aftermath of the Fiji game that stopped his promotion to be number one in Wales and you will see many Scarlet supporters on their own Forum agree that he should have been dropped not only for Welsh benefit but for Rhys's own.

by mikey_dragon Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:06 pm

"It was only the inexcusable dressing down in PUBLIC that Howley gave to both him and Richie Rees a few years ago that upset his mojo for a few months, he should have been in the Welsh team regularly at least 3 years ago."

Interesting, especially when you consider that Howley has NEVER given Rhys Crapland a public dressing down. This is why I can't stand Howley.

by mikey_dragon Tue Feb 16, 2016 10:25 pm

I'll agree with wayne. They've been trying to convert him to a TH for years and it hasn't worked, so I don't think it will work now. Another thing is that I don't even remember him being a decent LH. You might not like Jarvis but he at least gives a 100% and can therefore bring something to the game.

As for scrum-half you seem to have a few of those even after letting one go recently. We know Leonard is quality and we also know that Knoyle is one of the worst 9's to have ever been given a professional contract. I would stick with Leonard as I think after a couple of poor games he'll come back good. Knoyle is just a very limited player with a poor pass.

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:02 am

Wayne and Mikey,picking up your points i'd say:
-Rhodri has given up an NDC to develop/resurrect his career so i'm hoping Gibbes and Tandy can help him do that;
-I'm not saying give him years just 6 months to see how he gets on in an O's shirt;
-the Welsh attack coach is a thread on his own but Dan's potential 5 years ago is not the same as his performance level now;
-yes,Rhodri's height may make it difficult to reach the required TH/LH standard but it would be a real concern to me if the O's coaching team weren't involved in or consulted on his transfer;
-although Leonard and Davies made errors on Sunday that led to tries they as a pair got the O's moving with pace or as Gruff likes to put it,with momentum.Given Rhys W's absences for Wales i'd like to stick with Leonard and Habberfield;
-i recall Tavis K being the coming 9 several years ago and nowhere near his best form for a long time so why bring him in is a mystery to me.

by True Raven Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:13 am

Tom habberfield has signed a three hear extension to here until 18/19

by LordDowlais Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:30 am

wayne wrote:FFS Lord the boy is 19

wayne, I am not going to get into a fight over this, but for me Watkin looks like a gem, a real find, Wales have a distinct lack of depth at center, yes there are a few young un's at Dragons, when they are not injured, but after Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, there is not much, Cory Allen perhaps, but I have been less than impressed with him as of late.

We are over stocked with NWQ centers in Wales at the moment, and although the NWQ equivalent are decent, I would rather see the Welsh boys playing.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:40 am

exile jack wrote:Wayne and Mikey,picking up your points i'd say:

-Rhodri has given up an NDC to develop/resurrect his career so i'm hoping Gibbes and Tandy can help him do that;
His NDC was not going to be renewed anyway, so he did not give it up to join you. Also he was told that it would be in his best interests (for his career) to find elsewhere to play as he is not going to displace Samson.

-I'm not saying give him years just 6 months to see how he gets on in an O's shirt;
It all depends on how much game time he can get. Over the last two or three seasons he has been injury free for a matter of months. If he can remain injury free then it may only take a matter of matches to decide where he sits in the pecking order of tight-heads.

-yes,Rhodri's height may make it difficult to reach the required TH/LH standard but it would be a real concern to me if the O's coaching team weren't involved in or consulted on his transfer;
It all depends on what sort of contract he is one, and what the clauses are I guess. If he is on a pretty low contract with a pay-per-play bonus that then makes it worth his time, then I would assume that the coaches have decided that it was wortht he punt.

-although Leonard and Davies made errors on Sunday that led to tries they as a pair got the O's moving with pace or as Gruff likes to put it,with momentum.Given Rhys W's absences for Wales i'd like to stick with Leonard and Habberfield;
How old is Leonard now? He likely won't be there come the end of next season. Habberfeild has not seemed to kick on, yet, so maybe bringing in another scrum half this season will mean they can be fully intergrated before Leonard goes? And also will put pressure on Habberfield to either fight for his place or give up.

-i recall Tavis K being the coming 9 several years ago and nowhere near his best form for a long time so why bring him in is a mystery to me.
Tav can still come good. He has an alternative style to Webb, and is more like Phillips. If he can get a run of games, which is likely when Rhys is off with Team Wales, then I would be confident that he will start to hit the form that made him an international before the curse of the tackle bag holder hit.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:37 am

True Raven wrote:Tom habberfield has signed a three hear extension to here until 18/19

TR, that is great news, and unlike SS I think Tom has progressed very well, as an indication Rhys Webb made his debut for us in around 2007, but didn't fully establish himself until about 2012/13 when Fotualii came he then had a disastrous season and really came good when Fotualii left, so it's taken 6 or 7 years, if Rhys is not available for Friday I would have Tom starting ahead of Leonard after his performance on Sunday.

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:38 am

SS,i stand corrected on his NDC but the point remains that he's joined the O's to further his career and the O's coaches must have had a say in that as well as the medical staff??

My hope for Rhodri is based on Andrew Sheridan's career-a 6'5",20st LH who despite quite a few tunings ended up with 40 caps for England,was a cult figure at Sale and only slightly less of a God than Wilkinson at Toulon.Time will tell whether he"ll achieve that as a TH/LH with the O's.

I hope Leonard stays and that Tom H kicks on.If you ask me whether i'd prefer Rhodri Williams to Tavis K then I would prefer but he's been lost To Bristol-the club at the end of the Universe.More's the pity.

I admire any player who resurrects their career after injury or any other reason that put them in the rugby wilderness so good luck to Tavis K.However,i'm unsure on whether any Top14/Pro12/Aviva club can afford too many poor player selection and development choices which brings me back to the general and club specific point of what influence coaches have on those choices.Genuinely interested in how it works down at PYS.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:47 am

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:FFS Lord the boy is 19

wayne, I am not going to get into a fight over this, but for me Watkin looks like a gem, a real find, Wales have a distinct lack of depth at center, yes there are a few young un's at Dragons, when they are not injured, but after Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Scott Williams, there is not much, Cory Allen perhaps, but I have been less than impressed with him as of late.

We are over stocked with NWQ centers in Wales at the moment, and although the NWQ equivalent are decent, I would rather see the Welsh boys playing.

No, I'm not looking for a fight either, in actual fact I'm NEVER looking for a fight on these boards, you've named 4 and we also as you say the 2 Dragons, so in actual fact we are well blessed for centres in Wales, as I put in my earlier post I'm quite happy to see out this season with what is happening ATM, with the 2 NWQ starting and Owen coming on, probably next year with Beck getting over his injury problems, it could be a totally Welsh pairing in our centres, hopefully the U20 centre who played last week Joe Thomas also coming into the picture things are looking bright.

by True Raven Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:49 am

Kieron Williams looks impressive too for an 18 year old , however, the reality is they're still boys playing a man's game and don't have anywhere near the experience of a Springbok with Super Rugby experience.

by ScarletSpiderman Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:52 am

Wayne, it was not meant as a slight on Habberfeild. He just has not really pushed on like Sam Davies has. But as you say Biggar kicked on early and was getting mentioned heaps when Webb was more or less forgotten, until recently. Maybe the same will be true with Habberfeild and Davies. fingers crossed/

Jack, your right the Ospreys coaches/medical staff must have decided that Rhodri was a punt worth taking. It would be interesting to see what sort of contract he is on (i.e. small basic + pay-per-play, or going rate basic etc), to see what sort of level of a punt they are taking. I think the reason Gats moved him to TH was to try an make a welsh Sheri, but the laws have changed and he is really suffering right now. That said what he brings to the rest of the game, carrying etc, is pretty handy. Maybe with some good solid locks behind him he can come good.

by LordDowlais Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:44 am

wayne wrote:you've named 4 and we also as you say the 2 Dragons, so in actual fact we are well blessed for centres in Wales

We have a massive drop in quality when two of Jamie Roberts, Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies get injured though. So no, I do not think we are blessed with centers.

Also, I do not care for this too young talk, if your good enough, your old enough. Owen Watkin is the most exciting player to be produced by the regions for a few years, I would love to see him getting a lot of exposure in the Pro12.

At the moment two regions could field a NWQ pairing at center, and although they would be good, it is not good for Wales. But as you say, Ospreys have only signed one center until the end of the season, so perhaps we will see more of Owen Watkin next season.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:02 am

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:you've named 4 and we also as you say the 2 Dragons, so in actual fact we are well blessed for centres in Wales

We have a massive drop in quality when two of Jamie Roberts, Scott Williams and Jonathan Davies get injured though. So no, I do not think we are blessed with centers.

Also, I do not care for this too young talk, if your good enough, your old enough. Owen Watkin is the most exciting player to be produced by the regions for a few years, I would love to see him getting a lot of exposure in the Pro12.

At the moment two regions could field a NWQ pairing at center, and although they would be good, it is not good for Wales. But as you say, Ospreys have only signed one center until the end of the season, so perhaps we will see more of Owen Watkin next season.

When you have a world class pairing like Jamie and JD2, there is bound to be a drop off in quality, but as Tyler showed in the WC, he could do a job, I totally disagree with you about Allen, I think he is a decent International centre, not totally top class but for a fourth choice decent.
The statement you say about Owen is ridiculous the same was being said about Tyler a few years ago, let the lad learn with 2 experienced Internationals, I and practically everybody else on our forum are happy with how everything is progressing.

Something totally different, and it really grates on me, why do you use the American way for spelling "centre". IT IS NOT CENTER

by LordDowlais Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:06 am

wayne wrote:Something totally different, and it really grates on me, why do you use the American way for spelling "centre". IT IS NOT CENTER

I have auto spell on.

And boy do I need it. Laugh

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:16 am

LordDowlais wrote:
wayne wrote:Something totally different, and it really grates on me, why do you use the American way for spelling "centre". IT IS NOT CENTER

I have auto spell on.

And boy do I need it.

OK

by mikey_dragon Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:25 am

Is Watkin 12 or 13? I've noticed that he has played in both positions recently. I think he should focus on 13, but he can play both positions equally as good then that's great.

by True Raven Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:42 am

Someone on the Ospreys forum believes we've signed a NWQ who wont be a time server so it either means Leonard is off and we probably will sign Knoyle or Engelbrecht won't stay after this season.

All speculation though at this point but I hope its Leonard who goes

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:19 pm

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wayne, it was not meant as a slight on Habberfeild. He just has not really pushed on like Sam Davies has. But as you say Biggar kicked on early and was getting mentioned heaps when Webb was more or less forgotten, until recently. Maybe the same will be true with Habberfeild and Davies. fingers crossed/

Jack, your right the Ospreys coaches/medical staff must have decided that Rhodri was a punt worth taking. It would be interesting to see what sort of contract he is on (i.e. small basic + pay-per-play, or going rate basic etc), to see what sort of level of a punt they are taking. I think the reason Gats moved him to TH was to try an make a welsh Sheri, but the laws have changed and he is really suffering right now. That said what he brings to the rest of the game, carrying etc, is pretty handy. Maybe with some good solid locks behind him he can come good.

Scarlet,i saw your informed post on the Scarlet's 9's on another thread so thanks for that.Your point on the locks is bang on.I was told by the great man himself Adam J that technique,savvy,fitness and guile counted for nothing if your second row lacked grunt because the other eight could more easily separate the front 3 and then splinter or drive through you. I've been impressed by Thornton but i'd love to see a Jake Ball/Bradley Davies type lock at the O's to take the pressure off AWJ.

by Breadvan Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:58 pm

Habbers hasn't pushed on due to duds being selected in front of him wgenWebb is away eg Tebaldi & Leonard..

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:04 pm

mikey_dragon wrote:Is Watkin 12 or 13? I've noticed that he has played in both positions recently. I think he should focus on 13, but he can play both positions equally as good then that's great.

Mikey in the past few weeks he's played both, is he fast enough for a 13? I'm not sure, for me a top 13 should also have the speed to be a winger as well like Engelbrecht, I thought he was the more impressive when he replaced Matavesi, he bamboozled about 3 players 15 yards in front of me a few weeks ago with quick feet, though up to now I haven't seen a really good kicking game, although that doesn't mean he hasn't got one, he should turn into a good one.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:15 pm

True Raven wrote:Someone on the Ospreys forum believes we've signed a NWQ who wont be a time server so it either means Leonard is off and we probably will sign Knoyle or Engelbrecht won't stay after this season.

All speculation though at this point but I hope its Leonard who goes

I must have missed that TR, wonder who that is? Don't forget Bernardo would have become WQ either late this year or next, but if it is anybody probably better to be Leonard, would a combination of Habberfield and Knoyle fill you with confidence for about a dozen games a season when Rhys is away? Although will the youngster that has played for Neath this season be good enough to fill in?

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:21 pm

Breadvan wrote:Habbers hasn't pushed on due to duds being selected in front of him wgenWebb is away eg Tebaldi & Leonard..

Sorry Breadvan, but Habbers doesn't agree with you as far as Leonard is concerned according to the interview he gave to Ospreys TV today, I can agree with you as far as Tebaldi is concerned, not Leonard up to now even after his poor show on Sunday.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:29 pm

exile jack wrote:
ScarletSpiderman wrote:Wayne, it was not meant as a slight on Habberfeild. He just has not really pushed on like Sam Davies has. But as you say Biggar kicked on early and was getting mentioned heaps when Webb was more or less forgotten, until recently. Maybe the same will be true with Habberfeild and Davies. fingers crossed/

Jack, your right the Ospreys coaches/medical staff must have decided that Rhodri was a punt worth taking. It would be interesting to see what sort of contract he is on (i.e. small basic + pay-per-play, or going rate basic etc), to see what sort of level of a punt they are taking. I think the reason Gats moved him to TH was to try an make a welsh Sheri, but the laws have changed and he is really suffering right now. That said what he brings to the rest of the game, carrying etc, is pretty handy. Maybe with some good solid locks behind him he can come good.

Scarlet,i saw your informed post on the Scarlet's 9's on another thread so thanks for that.Your point on the locks is bang on.I was told by the great man himself Adam J that technique,savvy,fitness and guile counted for nothing if your second row lacked grunt because the other eight could more easily separate the front 3 and then splinter or drive through you. I've been impressed by Thornton but i'd love to see a Jake Ball/Bradley Davies type lock at the O's to take the pressure off AWJ.

Jack, Bernardo is due to be WQ fairly soon, and I think since coming back from injury a few weeks ago has impressed me, we also have some BIG lumps coming through in Beard, Hughes and Dodd, so if we can hang on to AWJ, Thornton and Bernardo without injuries, Beard has already made a couple of appearances off the bench, as long as we don't have to revert to Ashley for the bigger games I'd be happy.

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 5:42 pm

Wayne,i thought Bernardo and Thornton were very good against Glasgow and Munster-both sides with experienced,gnarly and grunty packs.I don't know much about Beard and the others you mention but Beard seemed to cope well with that monster Irish U20 pack the other week.As far as Lloyd goes I don't think he can be the second lock because he's just not powerful enough as a scrummager but his commitment and tackling would suit a blindside role.To be fair to him I do recall the Toulouse game at the Liberty where he fronted up to the French locks and I read somewhere recently that his tackling success rate in some recent games was 100%.

by wayne Wed Feb 17, 2016 6:58 pm

exile jack wrote:Wayne,i thought Bernardo and Thornton were very good against Glasgow and Munster-both sides with experienced,gnarly and grunty packs.I don't know much about Beard and the others you mention but Beard seemed to cope well with that monster Irish U20 pack the other week.As far as Lloyd goes I don't think he can be the second lock because he's just not powerful enough as a scrummager but his commitment and tackling would suit a blindside role.To be fair to him I do recall the Toulouse game at the Liberty where he fronted up to the French locks and I read somewhere recently that his tackling success rate in some recent games was 100%.

Jack, it was in the SWEP at about Easter last year that they quoted the astonishing figures that Lloyd had completed around 370 tackles with none missed, people took notice of that and were then looking out for him missing one, by all accounts somebody reckoned they seen him accomplish that feat, but personally I didn't see any. He is a fantastic worker and is totally committed to our cause, but as you say a little too small, there has been a lively debate on our forum as to what size he is, some of it has got quite nasty, as you say it would suit a 6 but then again is he quick enough for that position.
As you say Bernardo and Thornton were very good in those games, and with Parry having a better throwing in record in those games his confidence about the field also improved, to me he was also very impressive, I think Beard is taller than Thornton and the three of them had an influence on the opposing teams rolling mauls, as Charteris shows at International level long armed people are good in that facet of play, as long as Gibbes is good at coaching that facet of the game, I just hope that we DO NOT select King in the 2nd row for this game to please Gatland, we have a record of selecting back rowers in the 2nd row in the past, even though on some occasions we had no 2nd rows available there were others selected on many occasions when 2nd rows were available, you NEED a powerful boilerhouse to reinforce the front 3.

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:19 pm

wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:Wayne,i thought Bernardo and Thornton were very good against Glasgow and Munster-both sides with experienced,gnarly and grunty packs.I don't know much about Beard and the others you mention but Beard seemed to cope well with that monster Irish U20 pack the other week.As far as Lloyd goes I don't think he can be the second lock because he's just not powerful enough as a scrummager but his commitment and tackling would suit a blindside role.To be fair to him I do recall the Toulouse game at the Liberty where he fronted up to the French locks and I read somewhere recently that his tackling success rate in some recent games was 100%.
Jack, it was in the SWEP at about Easter last year that they quoted the astonishing figures that Lloyd had completed around 370 tackles with none missed, people took notice of that and were then looking out for him missing one, by all accounts somebody reckoned they seen him accomplish that feat, but personally I didn't see any. He is a fantastic worker and is totally committed to our cause, but as you say a little too small, there has been a lively debate on our forum as to what size he is, some of it has got quite nasty, as you say it would suit a 6 but then again is he quick enough for that position.
As you say Bernardo and Thornton were very good in those games, and with Parry having a better throwing in record in those games his confidence about the field also improved, to me he was also very impressive, I think Beard is taller than Thornton and the three of them had an influence on the opposing teams rolling mauls, as Charteris shows at International level long armed people are good in that facet of play, as long as Gibbes is good at coaching that facet of the game, I just hope that we DO NOT select King in the 2nd row for this game to please Gatland, we have a record of selecting back rowers in the 2nd row in the past, even though on some occasions we had no 2nd rows available there were others selected on many occasions when 2nd rows were available, you NEED a powerful boilerhouse to reinforce the front 3.

by exile jack Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:33 pm

exile jack wrote:
wayne wrote:
exile jack wrote:Wayne,i thought Bernardo and Thornton were very good against Glasgow and Munster-both sides with experienced,gnarly and grunty packs.I don't know much about Beard and the others you mention but Beard seemed to cope well with that monster Irish U20 pack the other week.As far as Lloyd goes I don't think he can be the second lock because he's just not powerful enough as a scrummager but his commitment and tackling would suit a blindside role.To be fair to him I do recall the Toulouse game at the Liberty where he fronted up to the French locks and I read somewhere recently that his tackling success rate in some recent games was 100%.
Jack, it was in the SWEP at about Easter last year that they quoted the astonishing figures that Lloyd had completed around 370 tackles with none missed, people took notice of that and were then looking out for him missing one, by all accounts somebody reckoned they seen him accomplish that feat, but personally I didn't see any. He is a fantastic worker and is totally committed to our cause, but as you say a little too small, there has been a lively debate on our forum as to what size he is, some of it has got quite nasty, as you say it would suit a 6 but then again is he quick enough for that position.
As you say Bernardo and Thornton were very good in those games, and with Parry having a better throwing in record in those games his confidence about the field also improved, to me he was also very impressive, I think Beard is taller than Thornton and the three of them had an influence on the opposing teams rolling mauls, as Charteris shows at International level long armed people are good in that facet of play, as long as Gibbes is good at coaching that facet of the game, I just hope that we DO NOT select King in the 2nd row for this game to please Gatland, we have a record of selecting back rowers in the 2nd row in the past, even though on some occasions we had no 2nd rows available there were others selected on many occasions when 2nd rows were available, you NEED a powerful boilerhouse to reinforce the front 3.

Wayne,i think Lloyd is quick enough as he gets around the field well.With King,i've never ever seen him him as a lock but a flanker offering speed around the park and lineout options.If he can play as a good 8 that's good for the squad.One of my worst experiences as an O's supporter was the game against Glasgow(may have been Edinburgh) in Scotland where the O's fielded 5 flankers in the back 5 of the pack.Not only did we lose we went backwards a lot.Never want to be at a game and see that again.

by True Raven Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:38 pm

I'm sure King said he's happy to play anywhere in the back row he just won't play anymore in the 2nd row so hopefully that experiment has come and gone.

It looks like Fia will be starting tomorrow if the training session was anything to go by as he was doing reps with the first team so Jarvis should be planted on the bench

by LordDowlais Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:04 am

Scott Otten is staying then:-

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/35602026

by True Raven Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:38 am

Hes a good youngster, just hope in a couple of year Nicky Thomas will want to come back (and hopefully with his pal Moriarty) and then a front row of Smith, Otten and Thomas will do nicely

by True Raven Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:08 pm

Team to play Edinburgh on Friday

15 Dan Evans

14 Jeff Hassler

13 JJ Engelbrecht

12 Owen Watkin

11 Ben John

10 Sam Davies

9 Brendon Leonard (Capt)

1 Nicky Smith

2 Sam Parry

3 Ma’afu Fia

4 James King

5 Rory Thornton

6 Dan Lydiate

7 Sam Underhill

8 Dan Baker

REPLACEMENTS

16 Scott Otten

17 Gareth Thomas

18 Aaron Jarvis

19 Rynier Bernardo

20 Olly Cracknell

21 Tom Habberfield

22 Josh Matavesi

23 Eli Walker

by ScarletSpiderman Thu Feb 18, 2016 12:10 pm

King in at second row? That just seems dull and obviously a word from higher up.

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https://www.606v2.com/viewtopic.forum?t=62397

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