England v Wales - Part 2, 26 September

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ENGLAND v WALES
26 September 2015
KO: 20:00
Twickenham, London

Live on ITV1

Referee: Jérôme Garcès (France)
Touch judges: Jaco Peyper (South Africa) & Marius Mitrea (Italy)
Television match official: Shaun Veldsman (South Africa)

A. Head to Head

126 Played 126
58 Won 56
12 Drawn 12
56 Lost 58
1,596 Points 1,456

B. Recent Form

6 February 2015
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
16 – 21 to England

9 March 2014
Twickenham Stadium, London
29 – 18 to England

16 March 2013
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
30 – 3 to Wales

25 February 2012
Twickenham Stadium, London
12 – 19 to Wales

13 August 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 9 to Wales

6 August 2011
Twickenham, London
23 – 19 to England

4 February 2011
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
19 – 26 to England

6 February 2010
Twickenham, London
30 – 17 to England

14 February 2009
Millennium Stadium, Cardiff
23 – 15 to Wales

2 February 2008
Twickenham, London
19 – 26 to Wales

C. Teams

ENGLAND

M Brown (Harlequins); A Watson (Bath), B Barritt (Saracens), S Burgess (Bath), J May (Gloucester); O Farrell (Saracens), B Youngs (Leicester); J Marler (Harlequins), T Youngs (Leicester), D Cole (Leicester), G Parling (Exeter), C Lawes (Northampton), T Wood (Northampton), C Robshaw (Harlequins, capt), B Vunipola (Saracens)

Replacements: R Webber (Bath), M Vunipola (Saracens), K Brookes (Northampton), J Launchbury (Wasps), J Haskell (Wasps), R Wigglesworth (Saracens), G Ford (Bath), A Goode (Saracens).

WALES

Liam Williams (Scarlets); G North (Northampton), S Williams (Scarlets), J Roberts (Harlequins), H Amos (Newport Gwent Dragons); D Biggar (Ospreys), G Davies (Scarlets); G Jenkins (Cardiff Blues), S Baldwin (Ospreys), T Francis (Exeter), B Davies (Wasps), A-W Jones (Ospreys), D Lydiate (Ospreys), S Warburton (Cardiff Blues, capt), T Faletau (Newport Gwent Dragons)

Replacements: K Owens (Scarlets), A Jarvis (Ospreys), S Lee (Scarlets), L Charteris (Racing 92), J Tipuric (Ospreys), Lloyd Williams (Cardiff Blues), R Priestland (Bath), A Cuthbert (Cardiff Blues).

LordDowlais wrote:

fa0019 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:But Tom wood is a clean player with a great track record, who apologised to Williams after the match.

Really ?

This is the same player who got away with grabbing Nakarawa around the neck from behind and lifting him up and throwing him to the ground in the first game.

He has been very lucky, on two occasions already during this world cup.

a bit of an overstatement LD. More of a judo throw on a descending player. He didn't pick him up by his neck in a chokeslam ala the undertaker in WWE.

It was a standing tackle, neither player was in motion. You see those in every game. Penalty yes, yellow no, citing no.

The thing is, that it was not in play. Play had stopped. With the new safety protocols world rugby are trying to bring in, it was a yellow at the very least.

Same player, TWO different clumsy instances that were dangerous. Just saying. That's all.

You'd give a yellow for that! I don't think their would be any players left on the pitch if you were a ref LD!

It was rash yes but you think that was worse than Lydiates? I recall you thought it was a penalty yes but not a yellow... Wood was upended, it could have been a very nasty tackle. I even heard some people say its his own fault because he tried to evade the hit! If Wood's was a yellow for the high tackle, Lydiates was certainly.

water under the bridge though... different strokes for different folks I guess!

fa0019. I am passed all the incidents from last weekend now. I am looking towards this weekend.

But Wood has been lucky on two occasions, is he dirty ? I guess not. Is he clumsy ? Yes.

With the new laws about grabbing around the neck, what Wood did to Nakarawa was a yellow. So was the accidental kick to Liam's head. He has been very lucky on two occasions.

You must show some sort of due diligence on the rugby field. Tom Wood on both occasions did not give one jot of thought for his opponents safety. If he does anything ever again he needs to be seriously reprimanded.

LD...past

Just watching bits of the game and just noticed the Mike Brown v Warburton little scuffle then when he shoved Jenkins. Loved the way Jenkins just smiled at him lol

bedfordwelsh wrote:Just watching bits of the game and just noticed the Mike Brown v Warburton little scuffle then when he shoved Jenkins.  Loved the way Jenkins just smiled at him lol

This didn't get repeated in the highlights reel, but Brown came in from quite a distance and punched or tried to punch Warburton. Warburton just looked more amazed than anything else...!

Mike brown needs to watch his temper, get all riled like that and you can make mistakes that give away penalties and concede the lead..

Good to see sense has prevailed.

If only that could happen on here. We live in hope.

maestegmafia wrote:

bedfordwelsh wrote:Just watching bits of the game and just noticed the Mike Brown v Warburton little scuffle then when he shoved Jenkins.  Loved the way Jenkins just smiled at him lol

This didn't get repeated in the highlights reel, but Brown came in from quite a distance and punched or tried to punch Warburton. Warburton just looked more amazed than anything else...!

Mike brown needs to watch his temper, get all riled like that and you can make mistakes that give away penalties and concede the lead..

Was all handbags really just good to watch and proves he has a bit of passion etc. Agreed he might be one who teams sort of target to rile up etc.

I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.

fa0019 wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:But Tom wood is a clean player with a great track record, who apologised to Williams after the match.

Really ?

This is the same player who got away with grabbing Nakarawa around the neck from behind and lifting him up and throwing him to the ground in the first game.

He has been very lucky, on two occasions already during this world cup.

a bit of an overstatement LD. More of a judo throw on a descending player. He didn't pick him up by his neck in a chokeslam ala the undertaker in WWE.

It was a standing tackle, neither player was in motion. You see those in every game. Penalty yes, yellow no, citing no.

The day Rugby Union moves to allow players one 'special move' like WWE will be the best day ever! Gets my vote. Adam Jones will be like that Tugboat guy! Samson Lee will do something involving his ferrets (so to speak), a la Jake the Snake Roberts. Crikey, brings me back to the early 90's!

RubyGuby wrote:I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.

Ruby,

Yeah can imagine it at the first chance and then they will all be at it if they get a response

bedfordwelsh wrote:

RubyGuby wrote:I can just see an Aussie player saying to Brown, "hey mate, unlucky against Wales, Nice interview though" - You just know that is going to happen and trust me, it was my forte' on the field.

Ruby,

Yeah can imagine it at the first chance and then they will all be at it till they get a response

More like.
Looking forward to some top drawer sledging in this game.

Brown might be 'Mr Angry' but his disciplinary record for England is excellent. He's hardly been a liability in that area to date and I can't remember him being carded (or giving away penalties for foul play or getting in a dust-up/dissent on any kind of regular basis). I think he just wakes up a bit miffed so I don't think sledging would wind him up any more than he already is. If you're permanently a bit edgy then I doubt think getting in a bit of a ruck is going to bother you too much.

I think the fact that, even taking into account the result on Saturday, England probably having more chance of progressing than Wales is getting to a few people

Pressure can push you over the edge Cyril - MB has never felt pressure like this before and he is close to the edge - he's revealed his flaws now its up to the Aussies to capitalise. If he gets good counsel and he can channel his emotion constructively then he'll be fine. However, he remains close to the edge at the moment and Stevie Wonder can see that. He and his mates lacked composure when it mattered, they cannot let that happen against a quality team like Aus

You haven't seen much of Brown then. He's the guy against Aus I think last year who Nigel Owens told to put his handbag away.

Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Well i thought this was fascinating...check out the ruck stats here for England. Its an eyeopener....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rwc-analysis-know-your-enemy/

Robshaw tops the list , then Dan Cole is second???? How is a prop the one hitting the second highest number of rucks!!!??? Same as Wales mind in Jenkins.

And James Haskell only hit 3 in 18 minutes on the pitch....

Makes me wonder if this "mobile " athletic team is as mobile and hitting as many rucks as we think when you see Australias stats. It show the back rowers dominating....and Pococks workrate is incredible.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Totally agree...and ive been saying that for a while.

Wheres Englands nasty players. Wheres Englands players that genuinely just don't give a f$*k about the opposition...Martin Johnson, Dallaglio, Mike Teague, Peter Winterbottom, Brian Moore etc.

We have developed a "nice guy" culture in the squad. Only Mike Brown has that edge.

Wales also have no nasty players - its all Doctors, Lawyers and Accountants - Just look at how nice they are, fecking shameful to call 'em welsh

I think your right.

Look at players like Paul O'Connell...he doesn't give a hoot who is in front of him...he is angry and full of rage. You need that.

GeordieFalcon wrote:I think your right.

Look at players like Paul O'Connell...he doesn't give a hoot who is in front of him...he is angry and full of rage. You need that.

I guess you haven't seen Ian Evans giving him a whack then.
Anytime POC played for Munster against the Ospreys Ianto would always give him a whack to make him behave it's why the Ospreys always used to beat Munster home or away!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i thought this was fascinating...check out the ruck stats here for England. Its an eyeopener....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rwc-analysis-know-your-enemy/

Robshaw tops the list , then Dan Cole is second???? How is a prop the one hitting the second highest number of rucks!!!??? Same as Wales mind in Jenkins.

And James Haskell only hit 3 in 18 minutes on the pitch....

Makes me wonder if this "mobile " athletic team is as mobile and hitting as many rucks as we think when you see Australias stats. It show the back rowers dominating....and Pococks workrate is incredible.

I guess the alternative view is what else would you want a prop doing around the park?!

Seriously though according to those stats, Wood didn't hit many rucks and according to espn he only made 3 tackles. Not very impressive for a 6...

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i thought this was fascinating...check out the ruck stats here for England. Its an eyeopener....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rwc-analysis-know-your-enemy/

Robshaw tops the list , then Dan Cole is second???? How is a prop the one hitting the second highest number of rucks!!!??? Same as Wales mind in Jenkins.

And James Haskell only hit 3 in 18 minutes on the pitch....

Makes me wonder if this "mobile " athletic team is as mobile and hitting as many rucks as we think when you see Australias stats. It show the back rowers dominating....and Pococks workrate is incredible.

I guess the alternative view is what else would you want a prop doing around the park?!

Seriously though according to those stats, Wood didn't hit many rucks and according to espn he only made 3 tackles. Not very impressive for a 6...

Well yes you want them working...but is he sacrificing his scrum work for mobility that really the Back row should be at the head of the line doing.

Woods stats are poor with regards to rucks. Although i guess it doesn't show all else around the park...surely he made more than 3 tackles. I just cant see his stats being that poor. But i would expect my flankers to be topping those charts like the Aussie flankers are.

Then look at haskells contribution and Billy Vunipola and that is pretty poor indeed.

What do Chris Huhne and Chris Robshaw have in common.

Answer:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i thought this was fascinating...check out the ruck stats here for England. Its an eyeopener....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rwc-analysis-know-your-enemy/

Robshaw tops the list , then Dan Cole is second???? How is a prop the one hitting the second highest number of rucks!!!??? Same as Wales mind in Jenkins.

And James Haskell only hit 3 in 18 minutes on the pitch....

Makes me wonder if this "mobile " athletic team is as mobile and hitting as many rucks as we think when you see Australias stats. It show the back rowers dominating....and Pococks workrate is incredible.

I guess the alternative view is what else would you want a prop doing around the park?!

Seriously though according to those stats, Wood didn't hit many rucks and according to espn he only made 3 tackles. Not very impressive for a 6...

Well yes you want them working...but is he sacrificing his scrum work for mobility that really the Back row should be at the head of the line doing.

Woods stats are poor with regards to rucks. Although i guess it doesn't show all else around the park...surely he made more than 3 tackles. I just cant see his stats being that poor. But i would expect my flankers to be topping those charts like the Aussie flankers are.

Then look at haskells contribution and Billy Vunipola and that is pretty poor indeed.

The tackle stats are from espn so treat with caution but Wood consistently makes fewer than Robshaw, not to mention rucks and carries.

I think it shows Launchbury needs to start as well. It shows that the number of rucks he was effective in or had a major impact in was very high....especially compare to Lawes and Parling.

But just to say bathman....if it is true that Wood hit that few rucks and made that few tackles....as a 6????!!!! Then thats horrific.

Burgess and Barritt were better flankers.

There a lot to be said about England's performance but at present there are neither a resilient or smart team.  Just one little example (I know there are bigger ones), England had been kicking long at every restart, no major problem with this, but at the end of the first half with about 30 seconds to play they had to kick-off after a Welsh penalty.  They kicked long as was there wont.  Wales caught the ball, kept it for a few seconds and cleared to touch (end of half).  Why not go for a shorter kicker with a chance to regain and try something in the remaining seconds.

A long kick was always going to mean the end of the half.  Just annoyed no imagination.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

Through luck as much as anything along with being suspended so much

I think all his suspensions come from big games, that's not someone you can rely on in a home World Cup with the pressure amplified

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

Bathman_in_London wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Well i thought this was fascinating...check out the ruck stats here for England. Its an eyeopener....

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/rwc-analysis-know-your-enemy/

Robshaw tops the list , then Dan Cole is second???? How is a prop the one hitting the second highest number of rucks!!!??? Same as Wales mind in Jenkins.

And James Haskell only hit 3 in 18 minutes on the pitch....

Makes me wonder if this "mobile " athletic team is as mobile and hitting as many rucks as we think when you see Australias stats. It show the back rowers dominating....and Pococks workrate is incredible.

I guess the alternative view is what else would you want a prop doing around the park?!

Seriously though according to those stats, Wood didn't hit many rucks and according to espn he only made 3 tackles. Not very impressive for a 6...

Well yes you want them working...but is he sacrificing his scrum work for mobility that really the Back row should be at the head of the line doing.

Woods stats are poor with regards to rucks. Although i guess it doesn't show all else around the park...surely he made more than 3 tackles. I just cant see his stats being that poor. But i would expect my flankers to be topping those charts like the Aussie flankers are.

Then look at haskells contribution and Billy Vunipola and that is pretty poor indeed.

The tackle stats are from espn so treat with caution but Wood consistently makes fewer than Robshaw, not to mention rucks and carries.

Everybody makes fewer tackles than Robshaw

Wood may have hit less rucks than his fellow forwards but he was far mote effective at taking out opponents and not giving away a penalty. If all England s forwards were as destructive they would win easily Wales would run out of players.

Does this ruck involvement highlight Robshaws workrate at ruck time or realistically his failures as an openside?

You expect your tight 5 to be involved in more rucks than anyone else, you expect your back rowers to be leading the line out quickly, and ultimately hitting wider tackles or sniffing turnover.

Wood does a huge amount of work on attack manipulation, and is key to turning dangerous situations into toothless ones, so he doesn't get stuck at A or B so often, or feel the need to go over rucks won with just one man, this is a very small stat in an ocean of stats!

marty2086 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

Through luck as much as anything along with being suspended so much

I think all his suspensions come from big games, that's not someone you can rely on in a home World Cup with the pressure amplified

..........and what do we have to lose? Right now we need some steel, some fire, and some grunt. Brown has that, but it's needed from the pack.

doctor_grey wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

Through luck as much as anything along with being suspended so much

I think all his suspensions come from big games, that's not someone you can rely on in a home World Cup with the pressure amplified

..........and what do we have to lose?  Right now we need some steel, some fire, and some grunt.  Brown has that, but it's needed from the pack.

You need some grit sure but Hartley isn't grit, he is a thug. He is more likely to do something stupid like bite or gouge someone and get sent off and banned. No team needs that type of player.

Unfortunately Hartley is the type of lad who is more interested in what he can do to the opposition than playing the game. He has proved this time and time again...!

marty2086 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

Through luck as much as anything along with being suspended so much

I think all his suspensions come from big games, that's not someone you can rely on in a home World Cup with the pressure amplified

Really?? How many Caps does he have and in the international environment whats his disciplinary record?? I think its probably pretty good.

maestegmafia wrote:

doctor_grey wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Barney McGrew did it wrote:Having watched England mislay their backbone on Saturday I'm pretty sure we could do with more of the likes of Brown, Hartley - and maybe bring Brian Moore back in. We have a deficit in feisty, not a surplus. Keep it up Mike.

Sure you bring Hartley back he promptly gets himself suspended, even Saints have taken the captaincy off him

Hartley has had issues for club, but he hasn't had many issues for country. I would have no problems with him in there.

But ideally Post WC some new ones put their hands up and have the proper skills for a hooker - including throwing!

Through luck as much as anything along with being suspended so much

I think all his suspensions come from big games, that's not someone you can rely on in a home World Cup with the pressure amplified

..........and what do we have to lose?  Right now we need some steel, some fire, and some grunt.  Brown has that, but it's needed from the pack.

You need some grit sure but Hartley isn't grit, he is a thug. He is more likely to do something stupid like bite or gouge someone and get sent off and banned. No team needs that type of player.

Unfortunately Hartley is the type of lad who is more interested in what he can do to the opposition than playing the game. He has proved this time and time again...!

He has never been that in an England shirt. His discipline is usually very good for England. In fact some people have said Lancaster has taken the fire out of Hartleys belly when he puts the white shirt on.

The worry is this "respect culture" is taking the fire out of everyones bellys!

Come off it you know Hartley's diciplinary record is poor. I like a bit of dirty stuff in rugby every now and then but Hartley does really stupid things. He is his own worst enemy.

Harshly done to recently though.

The obvious thing that stands out here is that Lancaster likes nice clean guys in his squad - He's more or less said that from the start and that is why on Saturday you did not have the services of, Hartley, Tuilagi, Steffan Armitage, Cipriani and perhaps most surprising of all 'cos that game was made for him in the last 20 mins, Danny Care.

He is trying to foster his own culture and whilst that is to be commended it will come at a price. Australia on the other hand don't give too much of a xxck what you do as long as you perform in the green and gold. A clear clash of cultures which transpose into paradoxical social and psychological dynamics on the field. Science v Art if you like.

Hartley suspended for first game hence not chosen, he would ahve gone otherwise, Tuilagi injured but rightly not chosen due to assaulting PC. Armitage plays in France so not chosen. Cips not chosen as straight selection choice. care deemed not in good enough form to make bench.

GunsGerms wrote:Come off it you know Hartley's diciplinary record is poor. I like a bit of dirty stuff in rugby every now and then but Hartley does really stupid things. He is his own worst enemy.

For club yes. For country I disagree.

Makes me laugh when the oppo hate an English player, particularly a hooker – means he’s doing something right. The only question is – is he our best hooker, and will his behaviour lose us a game? Well, the answers are yes (when in form tho his recent form has been patchy – but we’re not exactly spoilt for choice) and no (given his test record is ok – we’re constantly told he will let us all down but it never really happens). It’s not our concern to pick players that the world loves, pick him and be damned. Nobody loves him but we don’t care. We already have nice-but-dim Robshaw and nice-but-dimmer Stewie. Let’s have a bit of nasty.

Having said that, particularly for his club, he can be a bit dim. But he is a forward after all.

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Come off it you know Hartley's diciplinary record is poor. I like a bit of dirty stuff in rugby every now and then but Hartley does really stupid things. He is his own worst enemy.

For club yes. For country I disagree.

He got banned for biting Stephen Ferris in a six nations game. He also got cited against SA for stamping in 2014. His international rap sheet would be bigger except he keeps missing out on international caps because he gets banned for incidents in club games. He has now missed a Lions tour and a World cup because of bans.

6 career bans is a terrible record.

Okey dokey

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Come off it you know Hartley's diciplinary record is poor. I like a bit of dirty stuff in rugby every now and then but Hartley does really stupid things. He is his own worst enemy.

For club yes. For country I disagree.

He got banned for biting Stephen Ferris in a six nations game. He also got cited against SA for stamping in 2014. His international rap sheet would be bigger except he keeps missing out on international caps because he gets banned for incidents in club games. He has now missed a Lions tour and a World cup because of bans.

6 career bans is a terrible record.

Biting the Ferris hand that was fish-hooking him seems rather mild to me. He should have put Ferris on his arris.

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:Come off it you know Hartley's diciplinary record is poor. I like a bit of dirty stuff in rugby every now and then but Hartley does really stupid things. He is his own worst enemy.

For club yes. For country I disagree.

He got banned for biting Stephen Ferris in a six nations game. He also got cited against SA for stamping in 2014. His international rap sheet would be bigger except he keeps missing out on international caps because he gets banned for incidents in club games. He has now missed a Lions tour and a World cup because of bans.

6 career bans is a terrible record.

Biting the Ferris hand that was fish-hooking him seems rather mild to me. He should have put Ferris on his arris.

He was trapped in a ruck at the time. Not a lot else he could do at that moment but its another one that has been done to death. Hartley has been unlucky, but then he has also been unlucky too many times for it always to be a 'coincidence'

Barney McGrew did it wrote:

Biting the Ferris hand that was fish-hooking him seems rather mild to me. He should have put Ferris on his arris.

It'd be the last time he'd try that stunt. Ferris would have pile driven him into the turf and paid for the headstone out of his own pocket

I really dislike reading posters trying vainly to justify biting and other such disgusting thug behaviour. It is not warranted it is a cowardly act and deplorable to condone it.

Wonder if you'd be as holier than thou if it was a Welsh player maes

Its been done to death anyway

And I agree, Hartley trying to take on Ferris would have been amusing, and I actually like Hartley as a player!