Who is your team's most overrated player?

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Just for laughs as the NH licks their wounds, who do you believe is your team's most overrated player? For Wales it has to be Justin Tipuric. He's had a couple good games for Wales and has been living off the back of that. There's still ongoing calls for him to be thrust into the team yet against Australia he seemed to be anonymous - furthermore I don't think he really has a great impact coming off the bench yet I always seem to read comments like "Tipuric played really well." An open-sides primary role is to boss the breakdown, exactly what Warburton does. Popping up on the wing and being able to pass the ball (which everyone bar Jenkins can do) does not make you a good open-side.

A little harsh maybe but I'm pretty tired of the calls for Wales to sift out one of the worlds best open-side flankers so that Tipuric can start. Paul James is a close second. So there we have it. Who do you believe to be your team's most overrated player and why?

You can be overrated and still perform well. It's all relative.

For example, Parisse is lauded as a fantastic player and he is very, very good but I sometimes think he gets a bit too much credit.

little badger you say he does all that but you need stats to back it up.

You say he's good in the lineout - he's rarely used as a jumper compared to others. He also doesn't run the lineout.You say he carries - how often does he get over the gain line? How often does he carry? Don't see him as a lock that is a real handful to bring down. I don't see him smashing people back in the tackle. You say he's added bulk in the scrum - our scrum struggled in the warm ups and RWC.

Jackles - perhaps. Tap tackles - again perhaps though he missed a noticeable tackle vs Aus and was too slow to stop a tackler in the 2014 loss to France for the 3rd try (allowing the 2 on 1 which France took). Two big defensive errors.

Other players have been lambasted for defensive errors but not Launchbury.

He's not the fastest lock in the world either - not that you necessarily need to be but Launchbury has been built up as the "complete" lock.

Cyril wrote:You can be overrated and still perform well. It's all relative.

For example, Parisse is lauded as a fantastic player and he is very, very good but I sometimes think he gets a bit too much credit.

Agreed. In fact I woudl argue it i steh better players most likely to be over-rated as they are actually rated. I proposed Launchbury as, while I think he is a good player, I do not see him as World Class - which some posters have said in the past.

Mind I would place Retallick in the over-rated category too, as every time I watch NZ Whitelock seems the better player.

I don't really get into stats but I do like a challenge so here goes! Broken down into facts (well as far as is possible!)and opinions.

Opinions: I don't think he was fully fit in the world cup and in the best form, he had a really long injury lay off and hasn't played much at all. He was partly at fault for those tries but again fully fit I don't think he would have been. My feeling is that he is currently one of England's best players.

Facts: In the Australia game, despite the above, he made 6 carries for 33 metres, one forward carried further (Tom Wood). He made one clean break and beat 2 defenders, again second in the forwards overall.

He made 13 tackles, second in the team. He did miss 2. He gave away zero penalties.

I don't like to look purely at stats but that's ok when overall England were dire.

France 6 nations 2014: Launchbury, a lock, has been on the pitch for what 75 mins, Brad Barritt, a back has come on as a replacement. Barritt is fresher. Brad in defence should be standing outside Launchbury, he isn't he's stood inside. Barritt should have pushed Launchbury inside him, you should have a replacement back, defending in the wide esp when said forward is knackered. I'm not saying it's Barritt's fault, the whole team lost the game, but to say it's Launchbury's fault does not fit with the facts.

Anyway that's my tuppence.

beshocked wrote:Simonofsurrey Not sure anyone can call Brad Barritt overrated when he gets frequently criticised.

That's a fair point. But it begs the question: overrated by whom - selectors, public, media, or all three? I was going down the selectors route, suggesting Barritt, doughty club player though he is, has been overcapped relative to what he offers at international level. I'd add Haskell and Farrell Jr into that 'overcapped relative to international pedigree' bracket, too. In many ways, they are symptomatic of the England approach of recent years, picking defensively over flair. Or maybe just a simple lack of more talented alternatives?

SimonofSurrey wrote:

beshocked wrote:Simonofsurrey Not sure anyone can call Brad Barritt overrated when he gets frequently criticised.

That's a fair point. But it begs the question: overrated by whom - selectors, public, media, or all three? I was going down the selectors route, suggesting Barritt, doughty club player though he is, has been overcapped relative to what he offers at international level. I'd add Haskell and Farrell Jr into that 'overcapped relative to international pedigree' bracket, too. In many ways, they are symptomatic of the England approach of recent years, picking defensively over flair. Or maybe just a simple lack of more talented alternatives?  

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Barney McGrew did it wrote:

SimonofSurrey wrote:

beshocked wrote:Simonofsurrey Not sure anyone can call Brad Barritt overrated when he gets frequently criticised.

That's a fair point. But it begs the question: overrated by whom - selectors, public, media, or all three? I was going down the selectors route, suggesting Barritt, doughty club player though he is, has been overcapped relative to what he offers at international level. I'd add Haskell and Farrell Jr into that 'overcapped relative to international pedigree' bracket, too. In many ways, they are symptomatic of the England approach of recent years, picking defensively over flair. Or maybe just a simple lack of more talented alternatives?  

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Hmm ... I'll grant you the cupboard ain't exactly groaning with stand out 'pick me' talent, but there have been reasonable relatively untried alternatives to the relentless diet of Haskell/Barritt/Farrell Jr these past couple of years, eg Kvesic/Eastmond-Burrell/Cipriani. My point was that England went backwards - as recent events showed - by standing by decent club players who never were going to make the step up to 'wow' factor internationals. Going back a bit, Neil Back for example was mistrusted and dropped several times before he became a firm part of that formidable 2000-3 back row unit.

Simonofsurrey a player who has shown the capability to not just be in a side that beat the ABs but also score a try in the same game is something not to be taken lightly.

Barritt was disappointing in the RWC. I don't think anyone is going to deny that but his usefulness to England shouldn't be discredited because of this. He's been a faithful servant to Lancaster - in Lancaster's first couple of seasons - Barritt has been Lancaster's go to man in the centres because of his reliability. Unfortunately he wasn't reliable in the RWC but was he another player not fully fit? Perhaps.

Eastmond has had opportunities to lay down a marker, it doesn't help his credibility either when he can't catch a hooker in a high profile game like a AP final. Just one thing but it doesn't help.

Burrell had a poor 2015 6 nations. Whose place would Cipriani have taken? Agree on Ksevic.

Can't be too infatuated with this "wow" factor. Have to have some balance and substance to go with the style.

Wilson is rated by the coaching team and a few Scots fans and I don't understand why.

Visser has been over-rated in the past due to his try record, but other than that he's pretty poor.

I think on the whole most Scots aren't over-rated just because they've given us no reason to be! The Scotland team on the whole seems to end up being over-estimated every 6Ns - we currently hold the Dark Horses Grandslam