Scotland 6N lookahead

First topic message reminder :

 

Scotland 45 – Japan 10

Hardie, Bennett (2), Seymour, Russell

Scotland 39 – USA 16

Visser, Maitland, Nel, Scott, Weir

South Africa 34 – Scotland 16

Seymour

Samoa 33 – Scotland 36

Seymour, Hardie, Laidlaw

Australia 35 – Scotland 34

Horne, Seymour, Bennett


Tries this world cup:

Seymour – 4
Bennett – 3
Hardie – 2
Russell, Visser, Maitland, Nel, Scott, Weir, Laidlaw, Horne – 1


6 Nations fixtures:
Scotland V England
Wales V Scotland

Italy V Scotland

Scotland V France
Ireland V Scotland

Worryingly for Scotland, Al Dickinson is still not considered fit for Edinburgh this weekend.

That means, at most, he will have 2 games before the England game to get back into the swing of things.

Does that make Rory Sutherland our form loosehead just now? I wouldn't fancy giving him his first cap against that England front row though!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Worryingly for Scotland, Al Dickinson is still not considered fit for Edinburgh this weekend.

That means, at most, he will have 2 games before the England game to get back into the swing of things.

Does that make Rory Sutherland our form loosehead just now? I wouldn't fancy giving him his first cap against that England front row though!

Yeah - 2 games would be the absolute minimum to achieve even basic match fitness.

That said, Dickinson is well known to be one of the fittest guys in the squad, so here's hoping.

Bizarre isn't it? If the Scotland side that just finished the World Cup was now playing the England side that just finished its World Cup, I would have been fairly confident we would win.

What a difference a couple of months makes.

After that South Africa performance, im a big fan of big Gordy Reid as our number 2 loosey. The big mans not a sublime technician like Dickinson but man he fronts up adds aggression and puts his body on the line. Bet you he would raise his game against a English team as well. Mind you Sutherland's got a bit of devil about him too.

Anyone know when the squad gets announced? Must be soon surely.

Next week apparently

GLove39 wrote:Anyone know when the squad gets announced? Must be soon surely.

I don't think there'll be any revelations this year really. It's the first time in a while we've had a stable-ish squad. Curious to see how Dunbar fares this weekend. Hopefully he doesn't get another injury! He's beginning to look a bit like the Simon Taylor of the backs world.

We seem to have no luck with promising backs.

Rory Lamont, Thom Evans, Joe Ansbro, ... Alex Dunbar

There was another promising Edinburgh centre who was perpetually injured. Shortish blonde haired chap.

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:We seem to have no luck with promising backs.

Rory Lamont, Thom Evans, Joe Ansbro, ... Alex Dunbar

There was another promising Edinburgh centre who was perpetually injured. Shortish blonde haired chap.

Ben Cairns wasn't it?

Didn't he switch into a coaching role recently?

Now coaching at Currie and doing very well! Cairns, Alan McDonald and Ross rennie all 3 are 30 or under and retired due to injury, when they could be very useful right now.

Praying dunbar plays well this weekend, any updates on the wingers or will Duncan Taylor be shoved out of position to cover ?

I played rugby with Cairnsy (and Alan McDonald) and he was a great player - was very good for Edinburgh, a great attacking 13. Him and De Luca had a very good relationship at Edinburgh.

I don't think he really was fully international class (he got ran over by Tom Shanklin once that led to a try) but he was a much better option than  Marcus Di Rollo.

He did pick up a few injuries and certainly would have had a few more caps for Scotland if he hadn't. He eventually had to retire with a knee injury.

Alan McDonald came off the bench in that game in Cardiff where Thom Evans almost died - he had to play on the wing when we were down to 13 men!

Cairnsy is coaching Currie (and is a future pro coach in the making) and McDonald is doing a medicine degree in Dublin, playing top level club rugby there too.

CraigS1874 wrote:Now coaching at Currie and doing very well! Cairns, Alan McDonald and Ross rennie all 3 are 30 or under and retired due to injury, when they could be very useful right now.

Praying dunbar plays well this weekend, any updates on the wingers or will Duncan Taylor be shoved out of position to cover ?

Quins say that Visser is out for 5 weeks not more so that's always good news, he'll be back for second game.

Not sure about our other choices. Murchie is coming back though, if he can regain some of his old form that'd be good if we do have to shuffle the backline around.

With our current situation at centre, I'd rather see Maitland shifted out to wing, although not sure about his condition at the moment...

Radge is right, we're pretty unlucky when it comes to injuries with our backs.

What about Tom Brown? He's an unspectacular choice but a fairly solid one?

Even before his heroics against Big T he has has had a good season for Edinburgh - hopefully his shoulder injury isn't too bad. Not international class IMO but wouldn't let anyone down.  Damien Hoyland has also had a good season (and is capped!) but he's only just back from injury himself.  He's got a few games to play himself into contention though.

Are there any A team fixtures scheduled this year? I always felt they were very useful from a Scotland viewpoint.

The A fixtures seem to have fizzled out somewhat - the last one I can remember was against Saxons at Scotstoun on a bitterly cold January evening in 2014.

Just looking at the teamsheet, there was some ridiculous talent in that 'A' side, with 9 of them playing at the World Cup eighteen months later. Also, we were captained by a young kid called Jonny Gray.

IanBru wrote:The A fixtures seem to have fizzled out somewhat - the last one I can remember was against Saxons at Scotstoun on a bitterly cold January evening in 2014.

It is a shame, always seemed a good way of unearthing players for us. I think, given the lack of opportunities in the pro teams, that the gap between U20s and the full team is too wide to expect players to make an effortless move from one to the other.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I played rugby with Cairnsy (and Alan McDonald) and he was a great player - was very good for Edinburgh, a great attacking 13. Him and De Luca had a very good relationship at Edinburgh.

I don't think he really was fully international class (he got ran over by Tom Shanklin once that led to a try) but he was a much better option than  Marcus Di Rollo.

He did pick up a few injuries and certainly would have had a few more caps for Scotland if he hadn't. He eventually had to retire with a knee injury.

Alan McDonald came off the bench in that game in Cardiff where Thom Evans almost died - he had to play on the wing when we were down to 13 men!

Cairnsy is coaching Currie (and is a future pro coach in the making) and McDonald is doing a medicine degree in Dublin, playing top level club rugby there too.

Ah yeah forgot they both played at Royal high, Cairns ran the best support lines of any Scottish centre I could remember. That Edinburgh team finished 2nd in the pro12 with godman the 10 !

CraigS1874 wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:I played rugby with Cairnsy (and Alan McDonald) and he was a great player - was very good for Edinburgh, a great attacking 13. Him and De Luca had a very good relationship at Edinburgh.

I don't think he really was fully international class (he got ran over by Tom Shanklin once that led to a try) but he was a much better option than  Marcus Di Rollo.

He did pick up a few injuries and certainly would have had a few more caps for Scotland if he hadn't. He eventually had to retire with a knee injury.

Alan McDonald came off the bench in that game in Cardiff where Thom Evans almost died - he had to play on the wing when we were down to 13 men!

Cairnsy is coaching Currie (and is a future pro coach in the making) and McDonald is doing a medicine degree in Dublin, playing top level club rugby there too.

Ah yeah forgot they both played at Royal high, Cairns ran the best support lines of any Scottish centre I could remember. That Edinburgh team finished 2nd in the pro12 with godman the 10 !

And Al was part of the successful McDonald-Rennie-Grant back row for Edinburgh!

You could definitely tell even at school level that they were going to be pros. Cairnsy was incredibly fast and skillful and Al was just a complete beast, as well as having a lot of skill.

We won Heriots' 7s with those two playing in our team (I was 16 they were 18). With Cairnsy at standoff and me outside him in the centre needless to say I didn't see much of the ball! One of the few occasions as a state school that we triumphed over private schools!

I just remembered the name and see he is starting at 15 for Exeter, is Byron McGuigan ever an option or is he well down the order?

Will get a good look at Atkins and low as they are both getting a start too.

Does anyone know how Richie gray has been going? I haven't seen him in match squads recently

Taylor with a try vs Ulster today, nice to see!

Denton leaking an easy score for Bath just now, not so good..

Denton is throwing himself about well though - very physical in the contact area.

Bath don't seem to use him much for carries though, which is strange.

not to get off topic with the Thread, but yeah I agree! All I saw Denton do was defend during his time on. They didn't seem to have him carrying at all.. Bath needed some forwards to get over the gain line and give the backs some slack because it felt like they relied on them way too much.

Bath were very lateral - like Glasgow who often play fancy wrap around moves that don't actually get anywhere.

They really need someone barreling up the middle like Denton!

I'm hoping when the squad get back together they return to the world cup form rather than their club form; Matt Scott has looked good when I've seen him but apart from that a lot of them seem to have stagnated. If I were coach I'd try as much as possible to stick with the team that should have beaten Australia but I'd perhaps replace Cowan with Barclay, if England play Farrell at 12 and Dunbar starts for Scotland then with Barclay, Hardie and Dunbar we can really boss the breakdown.

I'd personally start with:

1. Dickinson 2. Ford 3. Nel 4. Gray 5. Gray 6. Barclay 7. Hardie 8. Denton 9. Laidlaw 10. Russell 11. Seymour 12. Dunbar 13. Bennett 14. Maitland 15. Hogg

I think with that side we probably have the four best players when it comes to getting over the ball at the breakdown which could prove beneficial. Almost try to replicate the Japan tactics against South Africa but on the Murrayfield a loose game could really run them ragged.

Swinson for captain

Silly question, but is there going to be a squad announcement?

This week I think, on Wednesday perhaps.

RDW_Scotland wrote:This week I think, on Wednesday perhaps.

I thought it was tomorrow

Good to see Dunbar back yesterday and looking fit, he and Taylor could make a very solid centre partnership , don't see any team finding it easy to get through that pair. Obviously Scott is looking like he's back to form but not sure he's defensively as good as the other two and I'm assuming Bennett isn't fit for the first game/s.
On the subject of Swinson, should yesterday's dimwitted antics cost him a place in the 6Ns squad (assuming Cotter was going to pick him)? Think I would go with the brothers Gray & Toolis probably.

I was just guessing Wednesday because that's when they normally do these things!

MacKnocked-on wrote:Good to see Dunbar back yesterday and looking fit, he and Taylor could make a very solid centre partnership , don't see any team finding it easy to get through that pair. Obviously Scott is looking like he's back to form but not sure he's defensively as good as the other two and I'm assuming Bennett isn't fit for the first game/s.
On the subject of Swinson, should yesterday's dimwitted antics cost him a place in the 6Ns squad (assuming Cotter was going to pick him)? Think I would go with the brothers Gray & Toolis probably.

I would agree with the lock combo in the training squad - I've never rated Swinson as an International lock and Ben Toolis should be on the bench, assuming he plays the next two Edinburgh games to get gametime. He played well on Friday by all accounts.

Alex should be included for experience, but also because we don't really have anyone else fit! Rumours are he's heading back to Australia with the Rebels though.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:Good to see Dunbar back yesterday and looking fit, he and Taylor could make a very solid centre partnership , don't see any team finding it easy to get through that pair. Obviously Scott is looking like he's back to form but not sure he's defensively as good as the other two and I'm assuming Bennett isn't fit for the first game/s.
On the subject of Swinson, should yesterday's dimwitted antics cost him a place in the 6Ns squad (assuming Cotter was going to pick him)? Think I would go with the brothers Gray & Toolis probably.

I would agree with the lock combo in the training squad - I've never rated Swinson as an International lock and Ben Toolis should be on the bench, assuming he plays the next two Edinburgh games to get gametime. He played well on Friday by all accounts.

Alex should be included for experience, but also because we don't really have anyone else fit!  Rumours are he's heading back to Australia with the Rebels though.

Best get him capped then!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even before his heroics against Big T he has has had a good season for Edinburgh - hopefully his shoulder injury isn't too bad. Not international class IMO but wouldn't let anyone down.  Damien Hoyland has also had a good season (and is capped!) but he's only just back from injury himself.  He's got a few games to play himself into contention though.

Hoyland will divide opinion on here. Very good in attack, really strong broken field runner and with a keen eye for the tryline (5 tries in 12 starts, which under Solomons is almost Savea-esque). Problem is that he doesn't have a clue how to compete in the air for the high ball, and at times his defence tends towards the "chase the ball" school of thought, rather than keeping within the defensive system. I've also yet to see him kick a ball successfully.

For those who believe wingers should be good attacking players first and foremost, Hoyland is your man. For those that like the more lumbering "solid" variety of winger, perhaps prone to the odd "birthday suit" photo shoot, then Hoyland won't float your boat.

Personally my order for the wingers is as follows:

Seymour, Maitland, Visser, Brown, Hoyland, Fife, Hughes, Jones, Nairn, any back out of position, S Lamont.

Agree on Hoyland - he needs regular gametime (which he's currently getting this season) before playing for Scotland again I think. One for the summer tour and AIs maybe.

It says all we need to know about Scottish rugby resources that a player in his first pro year who looks a bit rough around the edges could find himself playing in the 6N depending on a couple of injuries!

RDW_Scotland wrote:Agree on Hoyland - he needs regular gametime (which he's currently getting this season) before playing for Scotland again I think. One for the summer tour and AIs maybe.

It says all we need to know about Scottish rugby resources that a player in his first pro year who looks a bit rough around the edges could find himself playing in the 6N depending on a couple of injuries!

Well England are the best resourced RU in the world with the largest number of Pro players, and they have Beaumont, Itoje and Clifford in the squad, also players yet to complete a full pro season.

I think with wingers in particular you have to look to form. Confidence is so important in that position.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Even before his heroics against Big T he has has had a good season for Edinburgh - hopefully his shoulder injury isn't too bad. Not international class IMO but wouldn't let anyone down.  Damien Hoyland has also had a good season (and is capped!) but he's only just back from injury himself.  He's got a few games to play himself into contention though.

Hoyland will divide opinion on here. Very good in attack, really strong broken field runner and with a keen eye for the tryline (5 tries in 12 starts, which under Solomons is almost Savea-esque). Problem is that he doesn't have a clue how to compete in the air for the high ball, and at times his defence tends towards the "chase the ball" school of thought, rather than keeping within the defensive system. I've also yet to see him kick a ball successfully.

For those who believe wingers should be good attacking players first and foremost, Hoyland is your man. For those that like the more lumbering "solid" variety of winger, perhaps prone to the odd "birthday suit" photo shoot, then Hoyland won't float your boat.

Personally my order for the wingers is as follows:

Seymour, Maitland, Visser, Brown, Hoyland, Fife, Hughes, Jones, Nairn, any back out of position, S Lamont.

He'll fit right in then.

From the little I've seen of Hoyland on TV his defence looks very suspect still so I'm not sure we could really afford to have him in the team as yet , but having said that, Lamont who is considered basically a defensive winger, looked out of position to me for Northampton's try yesterday, leaving Russell up against it. Apart from Maitland you could argue that all our back three options are at least a bit dodgy defensively, even Hogg at fullback isn't a great tackler.
On the subject of Hogg I was surprised to see on yesterday's BT coverage that he has apparently only scored one European try, amazing for a supposedly attack minded player in a free running team.

MacKnocked-on wrote:From the little I've seen of Hoyland on TV his defence looks very suspect still so I'm not sure we could really afford to have him in the team as yet , but having said that, Lamont who is considered basically a defensive winger, looked out of position to me for Northampton's try yesterday, leaving Russell up against it. Apart from Maitland you could argue that all our back three options are at least a bit dodgy defensively, even Hogg at fullback isn't a great tackler.
On the subject of Hogg I was surprised to see on yesterday's BT coverage that he has apparently only scored one European try, amazing for a supposedly attack minded player in a free running team.  

*cough* Sean Maitland *cough*

MacKnocked-on wrote:From the little I've seen of Hoyland on TV his defence looks very suspect still so I'm not sure we could really afford to have him in the team as yet , but having said that, Lamont who is considered basically a defensive winger, looked out of position to me for Northampton's try yesterday, leaving Russell up against it. Apart from Maitland you could argue that all our back three options are at least a bit dodgy defensively, even Hogg at fullback isn't a great tackler.
On the subject of Hogg I was surprised to see on yesterday's BT coverage that he has apparently only scored one European try, amazing for a supposedly attack minded player in a free running team.  

I would agree, and yet I would still say that our back three options are the best we've had in my lifetime.

Hogg is the best 15 we've had since Hastings and, Thom Evans aside, I wouldn't trade Visser, Seymour or Maitland for any Scotland wingers in my rugby supporting lifetime.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

MacKnocked-on wrote:From the little I've seen of Hoyland on TV his defence looks very suspect still so I'm not sure we could really afford to have him in the team as yet , but having said that, Lamont who is considered basically a defensive winger, looked out of position to me for Northampton's try yesterday, leaving Russell up against it. Apart from Maitland you could argue that all our back three options are at least a bit dodgy defensively, even Hogg at fullback isn't a great tackler.
On the subject of Hogg I was surprised to see on yesterday's BT coverage that he has apparently only scored one European try, amazing for a supposedly attack minded player in a free running team.  

I would agree, and yet I would still say that our back three options are the best we've had in my lifetime.

Hogg is the best 15 we've had since Hastings and, Thom Evans aside, I wouldn't trade Visser, Seymour or Maitland for any Scotland wingers in my rugby supporting lifetime.

Don't forget Glenn Metcalfe, he was a tremendous 15 for Scotland, fantastic runner.

Batman Returns

Squad will be announced tomorrow

Nice one! Is there going to be any suprises?

Probably not, but I've got my boots ready just in case!

bsando wrote:Nice one! Is there going to be any suprises?

On balance, still far less mad than Ryan Wilson.

People are being harsh on Batman, one ballsup on the quest to justice.

Vern has said in the papers this morning that he views the 6N as a tougher test than the WC, and I would agree with that.

In the WC he had months of preparation time with his players and they were all fresh and raring to go - the Glasgow players full of confidence from their league win. And let'a face it, on paper all we had to do was beat teams ranked below us and one around the same level as us to qualify. We produced a fantastic one off performance against Australia but we've produced several good one off performances in the past.

By contrast, the 6N is in the middle of a long hard season and the players will arrive beaten up and jaded. He'll probably only have around 7 training sessions available with this squad.

On that top of that we are rank underdogs with all but one of the teams, and have an awful record playing them in 6N history. Even the team that we 'should' beat is away in Italy and that will be no easy task.

So without fully opening the debate again, that is why 2 wins for me would be a satisfactory tournament!

Will it still be Winter in Edinburgh on w/e of 6th.?
England don't like it up them in the Winter in Edinburgh.

gregortree wrote:Will it still be Winter in Edinburgh on w/e of 6th.?
England don't like it up them in the Winter in Edinburgh.

It will be winter in Edinburgh until 6th June.

Then there'll be a month of slightly warmer rain then winter will resume again.

England no chance then, Scots have their 16th man on the pitch.