Magners League 11/12

How do people expect the League to go next year, taking into account that it is a world cup year so a lot of players will be rested or away, and the current signings/departures of the teams in the league.

No point us looking at H-cup yet until the draw is made.

Personally I think both Munster and Leinster have enough strength in depth, to manage when the internationals are away on world cup duty. Ulster have recuited well again this year and will lose less players to international duty and are going to be stronger next year.

Therefore I beleive the top 3 will be these 3 teams again.

Cardiff Blues have an aging pack and will lose players to the wc, the replacements arn't as good quality, I think they are going to enter a rebuild phase this year, with the senor players at the world cup and having to play younger players, hence I see them slipping back this year.

Ospreys are also entering a rebuilding phase, but have the depth to be able to do it, expect them to struggle at start of season and when wc is on, but will gel and be a good team in second half of season, and may sneak a play off place.

Scarlets have gone through the rebuilding stage and are showing the benefits, however it will again be the lack of squad depth that lets them down in the final 3rd of the season again.

Dragons are improving and will lose least players to the wc and will pick up some wins as a result, expect them to improve on last year.

Connacht are improving under Elwood, the fisrt XVshould be about the same strength or better than last year, and they have improved their strength in depth, I expect they should finish about mid table and the Sportsground will be a difficult place to go for any team.

Glasgow and Edinburgh both had a poor year last year and will both lose a lot of player each to the WC and 6N, I don't see them having a better year next year, (however their is hope for the year after as currently the SRU is doing a review hich may see increased funds and marketing etc)

Benetton Treviso had a good year last year and when they have their full team will win a number of games at home.
Aironi were coming good near the end of last season and will win more at home this year. However for both teams I see the wc and 6n having a big impact on squad and they don't have depth to cope yet so both will be near the bottom.

I predict

Leinster,Munster,Ulster top 3 not sure of order
Ospreys
Scarlets/Blues/Dragons (not sure of order)
Connacht
Glasgow/Edinburgh
Treviso
Aironi

Treviso and Aironi to truly catch up and/or overtake the Scottish sides.

Connacht and Scarlets to improve by 1-2 positions.

The rest as is.

Check this out Kingshu;

https://www.606v2.com/t5998-italy-name-provisional-world-cup-squad

Treviso and Aironi have so many key players away with Italy that I fear for them at the start of the season. Will they recover?

I'd see Leinster topping the league next season with Ulster dropping out of the top 4.

I agree with Munsty. I'm actually backing Cardiff Blues to have a real fighting chance next season.

No, I see the Blues going downhill quickly.

As far as the Blues are concerned, no fresh blood in the players or coaches- I don't see the problems they had this year improving at all.

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,3825_6962355,00.html

Aironi are making a few signings.

I can see Ulster topping the league next year. Their young great players havent got an Ireland cap yet so i fail to see how the likes of Spence will be selected for the WC squad of 30 just like that. An underperforming Fitz with experience would pip him.

If anyone is going to get an Ireland jersey without Six nations or International caps its most likely going to be Jones.


Add in the fact Ulster is a holiday home for Boks, who probably won't get selected for playing abroad (Pienaar aside) - Then Ulster might get away with 2/3 of their XV unlike Munster and Leinster who will have near enough their whole first XV's and good parts of their second XV's gone.

This is basically the same Blues squad that won the Amlin just over a year ago and people were expecting big things of this season.

I think this season will be a big kick in the bum for them and they'll maybe treat opposition with some more respect.

Dragons and Scarlets will improve a bit. Can't see the O's getting better and the Blues will get worse. Leinster and Ulster to compete for the top. Glasgow and Edinburgh will struggle and just edge out the Italians. The shock will be Munster finishing mid-table.

I think Connacht will do worse next year. Cronin was their main ball carrier. He's gone. Keatley was their goal kicker and gave them direction. He's gone. Carr was their main try scoring weapon. He's gone. Their first season in the Heineken Cup will take its toll on the squad to.

Ulster will be better next year. They'll be missing far less players than the likes of Cardiff, Ospreys, Munster and Leinster. Their youngsters will be a year older and more experienced. And they've made some more top quality signings too.

I'm just interested in seeing what kind of effort is put in over the season.

Last year Munster got the final play off spot with a 50% record. It was almost as if teams really didn't try too hard. This year the competition for the top 4 was tougher, I hope it continues.

Would love to see the Italian union investing in bringing back their Top 14 based players and populating Aironi.

I'm worried for the Ospreys. They have lost a lot of starters, and while I understand many think this will be better overall in terms of team morale it's still quite a dip in overall quality.

Ulster are looking very good.

Haven't Glasgow lost a stream of players? Have they recruited? Did the SRU even notice?

I think it will be Leinster, Munster and Ulster in the top 4. Not sure of the positions myself but i think that Ulster may get a good head start depending on who kindey picks for the fianl WC squad. Can't see the likes of Spence going and i may be wrong but only Pineaar of the SA contingent will be going. The final place is one of 3 welsh sides and it is hard to call. Neck on the line i will go with the Scarlets. Treviso to cause more suprises in the 2nd Half of the season and finish above Connacht

Treviso doing well next year wouldn't be a surprise. In fact, their excellent home record this season wasn't a surprise either.

Or I thought so, at any rate. We're talking a team with half the Italian squad.

I think Treviso might actually falter next season. They surprised sides this past season but they need to develop their game this time around and I'm not sure they have that in them.

Greybeard i meant to win a few more away from home. I also think that Aironi will come on if they get 1 or 2 'quality' SH signings. 3 or 4 home wins would be great for them but in reality 2 is probably tops for next year. Agree with feckless that Connacht will slip next year. Lost some quality without any sign of replacements yet

With regards to the Scarlets, I go from being optimistic about our chances with all our new young talent coming through to being very worried about our chances with key players due to be away during the world cup an 6N's. I would say if we finish about the same place as this year, we'll have done well.

For Ulster, we must get a top four spot again. It's as simple as that. Getting to the playoffs must become the norm.

It would be nice to improve on our home record. We lost to both Munster and Leinster at home. Hopefully next year we can make a good shot at going unbeaten at Ravenhill.

rugbydreamer, i agree to an extent, we will miss our internationals during the world cup and maybe some of our youngsters like lou reed and scott wiliams if selected. But, how often did we play with a full team last season? Not often, due to internatuonal call ups and injury and still pushed for a play off place. if we get a good start and some luck with injuries then i think we could make the play off's and hopefully have a decent showing in europe (no group of death please)

Buzz - am loving your optimism! I'm just tapering mine with a sense of caution as I don't want to be too disappointed next season is all.

And aye a slightly nicer group would be nice! You're right though about us not really fielding a full strength team this season. There is a lot of hope to be found at the Scarlets, but I think I need a couple of seasons of us playing well before I start feeling even slightly secure about our future prospects!

Some very ill informed comments here, Glasgow have lost a few players Max Evans and Richie Vernon to name 2 prominent ones.

But this year they will have a very strong side. Last year the team was ravaged by injuries to key players like Cusiter, Morrison and Beattie. Rest assured the youngsters that stood in for the likes of those were exposed to the magners league sufferd some defeats and will be vastly improved. I predict a upper half finish for Glasgow this year, since they have arguably one of the strongest packs in the Magners league with the likes of Kellock, Gray. Beattie and Barclay.

As for Edinburgh, I can see them having a great start to the season. They will be missing players from the world cup but if the tail end of last year is anything to go by we have some very skilled replacements. Again i can see a top half finish and I am hoping to be in play off contention too.

But they never got very far even when they had Parks kicking all their points...

munkian wrote:But they never got very far even when they had Parks kicking all their points...

Season before last they made the Play Offs with Parks Kicking thier points

And now they dont even have him. Scotish Rugby is a shambles at the moment.

It will an Irish/Welsh top 6 in the table

I would expect both scottish and italian sides to get off to a dreadful start.if only 2 sides make up your national side surely you'll suffer more than those drawing from a wider pool._ulster for me are the side that will pull away this year but also the ospreys scarlets and munster who seem to have blooded a lot of youngsters this year and that will stand them in good stead.the blues will struggle to make europe next year at all and dai will eventually get the elbow.

I don't expect too much from the Blues until the new year, due to the players we will be missing and the lack of quality to back them up. In the backs...i think we're ok. We will be losing Rees, Roberts & Halfpenny and i think we have capable cover for those 3.

It's the forwards where we will struggle. We have a weak front row which probably won't be addressed and although we will have cover for guys like Bradley, Warburton & possibly Martin...i just think we will need to be more content to play on scraps for a while.

Although next year will be a big year for a few players. With our best players going to be unavailable for a while, there will be lots of places up for grabs.

Blues fans should expect big things from Lloyd Williams, Andries Pretorious & Daf Hewitt. LW & DH have a chance for a consistant run in the team & AP can continue his rise as one of the true leaders in the blues pack. I see him as the next potential blues Captain. it will be him, Warburton or Bradley.

Hopefully Ulster push on - I think (presumably) not losing Humphreys, Cave, Tuohy, McAllister, Henry, Gilroy and so on will keep us ticking over during the RWC, but we need to hit the ground running and make the most out of that. We will have a squad of 33 players next season - we will run out of steam a bit towards the end, I'd say.

Thankfully we will have Muller and Wannenburg all year round. We will lose Pienaar, but then, he didn't arrive until late this past season either.

Several people have pointed out that Pienaar is the only NIQ player we'll lose during the RWC. What NIQ players do Leinster and Munster fans expect to be away on international duty?

We'll lose Simon Danieli as well, most probably Don. And John Afoa won't join us until after the tournament. We're looking at losing 8 first team players. Those two, Pienaar, and our five centrally contracted Ireland boys.

Munster could be without BJ Botha although given the season he's had that looks less and less likely. They'll have Borlase, Du Preez, Mafi and Howlett. But they'll lose more Ireland players.

Leinster could in theory be without Nacewa although he doesn't seem to really want to play for Fiji. Maybe he'll decide it's a great chance for him to play on the big stage and grab it, maybe he'll just stay at Leinster.All the other Leinster NIQ will be available; Strauss, Sykes, Berquist, Van Der Merwe. So they could potentially have all of their NIQ although the benefit of this is off-set by the sheer number of Ireland players that have

So, the answer to your question is; potentially none. Or one each at most (barring any further big signings).

Blues need to back Sweeney at 10 and drop Parks for a bit of money, buy in a quality Tighthead who can scrummage, Id look at getting the russian tighthead before he goes to the World Cup, makes an impression and his price goes up dramatically.

Do you know anything about that player or do you just want him because he's Russian? His name, for instance?

MBTGOG wrote:I'd see Leinster topping the league next season with Ulster dropping out of the top 4.

Just a WUM or are you basing this statement on some well thought reasoning?

Because he's Russian Notch. What people don't realise is that the Russian props aren't even that good.

Rava,

Because I think Leinster will be stronger in the Magners League, while Munster will drop off. Other teams will be able to suss out Ulster more than last season where they were a relatively unknown prospect due to the new imports and academy players.

Thanks Munsty. I knew there was reason but needed to see it

By the way, and sorry it isn't on topic, but did you see the Russian U20 Full Back? Scored a hat-trick against USA. Looks a big lad with a lot of pace.

I agree with the Irish 1-3 prediction. I'd back Munster to top the table with Ulster and Leinster 2nd and 3rd in that order.

I think the Ospreys will come 4th.

As far as the bottom go, Aironi will come last, but again it'll be a battle between Glasgow and Treviso for the second last spot.

I actually think Edinburgh will do ok. I suspect they won't be hugely hit by the World Cup withdrawals if you take the front row out the equation (and pretty much every decent prop will be at the World Cup in any case), and certainly the Edinburgh backs will be pretty strong next year. The likes of Blair, Godman, King, Houston, Cairns, Webster, Visser and Thompson probably won't go to the World Cup, similarly Denton, Grant and MacDonald. I can see Edinburgh having a strong(er) season and finishing above Connacht and the Dragons at least, and possibly the Scarlets and the Blues.

Some promise there Rav. 6'4 and 95KG.

Russia did get hammered by Samoa the next game though. Looks like Samoa will take that trophy home to be honest.

Japan beating Georgia is a big result.

MBTGOG - Good point about Ulster being "worked out". Could be the case.

Personally, I think Ulster will be in a completely different psychological place next season, but that also applies to our opponent's psychology when facing us. I saw numerous posts by the fans of various Welsh teams before games - "Ulster haven't beaten us at home in three years" etc etc. So last year was a watershed for our record against Welsh teams. They don't have that comfort blanket any more.

Teams now also know that we can win in the dying seconds - with Pienaar or with Humphreys. They will have been used to us crumbling in the last ten/fifteen minutes, which we did a number of times in previous seasons. This season saw a complete turnaround. If they'e wrinning by a point, and we are in their twenty-two in the last two minutes, it'll be squeaky-bum time for them, not just us! That in itself is a big change.

My concerns are a) no forwards coach, b) quite possibly little or no Ferris and c) exhaustion at the end of the season, with one of the smallest squads in the ML.

Japan looked as if they could make some in roads into the World Game a few years ago but then stopped. Maybe they are now ready to kick on.

Glasgow have lost a few and by and large brought in no proven experience. We could be down as many as 12 players due to current long term injuries and WC call ups, no way we can compete.

Edinburgh will improve on last year, they are not missing too many players and have enough experienced players to beat the likes of Ospreys, Munster etc if they are missing their Internationals.

They'll be lucky to beat The Dragons let alone Munster

munkian wrote:They'll be lucky to beat The Dragons let alone Munster

, just re-read my comment it and it did come across like, beating Munster would be a formality. What I meant is that they will be competitve in these types of games.

munkian wrote:They'll be lucky to beat The Dragons let alone Munster

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/rugby_union/13134435.stm

If I remember right this game was a bit of a drubbing.

I don't think the league positions will change an awful lot next year. The usual is for Dragons and Connacht to come out fighting and winning and the tide to turn around Christmas. Aironi will still prop up the table. The Scottish teams will still be poor. Treviso should kick on in their second year but this will be cancelled out by missing so many of the national contingent. Edinburgh don't appear to be poised to make a run. At the top end, the 3 Irish provinces Munster, Leinster and Ulster along with the 3 welsh of Blues, Scarlets and Ospreys will have varying degrees of RWC hangover but over a season will end up in the top 6 positions, with possibly one of Blues/Scarlets getting into the top 4 in front of Ulster/Ospreys.

Will it be the Magners league next year? Are they signed up till the end of 10/11 or 11/12?

I see the Blues being worse next season than they were at the end of this season. I see the Ospreys playing better now that they've offloaded some established and complacent international players, but they'll still frustrate. I see the Scarlets continuing to play rugby and perhaps paying for a lack of pragmatism. I HOPE the Dragons play with the spirit they've played with since Darren Edwards took over.

As long as the dragons play well against every team and just don't simply raise their game for matches against the Ospreys & Blues, they should do alright.

One week you beat the Ospreys, the next you beat the Blues and the players are coming out doing a lap of honour and then next week get turned over by Ulster at home.

The dragons are more than capable at home, they need to just stop being game raisers and consistantly play at the intensity they do against the Blues & Ospreys. Do that, and you're guaranteed to finish in the top 6 and pushing for a play off spot

In fairness, gcBlues, we beat the Ospreys at the Liberty too and came as close as you can get to beating Ulster at Ravenhill. But I agree with you, we need to be more consistent over the season and we definitely need to win more games away from home.

Yeah i know and it was a great season for the Dregs (). But they just need to stop slipping up at Home, there are away games they can win (didn't they beat glasgow this year?).

Also, being in the Amlin will benefit the dragons...if they get a decent group, they could be a great shout to make it to the latter stages

A season in the Amlin will probably benefit us much more than another season in the Heineken Cup.

Glasgow can only get better but they will not get into the play offs - the RWC will gub them for that. We can only live in hope that Sean L can pull a rabbit from a hat again !

I think that the gap between the top of the league and the bottom will get smaller, there will be more sides in teh running for the play-offs come the last few weekends. I also think that the four welsh regions may all be in competition for the HC qualification spots come the last few weeks too.

I expect the italians to start off slow due to player loss but come back and have a real influence on the rest of the league in the latter stages (even thought htey will be out of the running themselves by then).

Personally i would love the SCarlets to draw the Italians away, and Munster/Ulster/Leinster home for the first few weeks of the season.