Dubai Desert Classic

First topic message reminder :

Worlds Top 3 set for a classic in the Dubai Desert this week:

So the desert swing reaches its Crescendo this week at the Emirates Course and with it we finally see a real battle of the big guns :shooter:

Not only Will Lee Westwood, Martin Kaymer and Tiger Woods (1 - 3 respectively in the OGWR) be competing in the same event for the first time this year, they will leterally be teeing it up together as they are scheduled to play in the same 3 ball.

So we will see them go head to head for at least the first 2 days (thats where the majority of the sky coverage will be then) we will also see how fair under the pressure they will try to place on each other and how their games so far this year compare! ( Any betting Tiger finishes way behind on Fairways hit compared to Westy)

Bizzarely my post got lost so let's try again:

Not meaning to mock LJ, but are you seriously suggesting someone lieing outside the top 25 after the first round can't win the tournament. I had a quick look for you to see when it was last done on the European Tour....that would be last week when Bjorn was sitting outside the Top 30, 5 shots behind Goosen.

I'm not saying that Tiger is necessarily in the form to do it, but that eagle at the last does make a difference, changes the mindset and probably makes a player feel that if he makes the most of the morning conditions he can be in the top 10 come the weekend.

I think maybe you've misunderstood what Pedro was trying to say. I thought it was actually a fair point...

This is only day 1 of 4 we are talking about, and he did qualify his statement by saying that if there were (say) 5 players on -7 and then the next batch on -5, it would be silly to look at the -5 as a mark of achievement.

However, the point is that there is only one person who is 2 shots ahead of 2nd place and those 2 shots could easily be lost on one hole (it would be less likely than 5 players could all drop 2 shots so simply).

So - on DAY 1 - it's not a bad thing to compare yourself to where 2nd place is - admitting that there is one more player better than that. It's a kind of standard deviation thing (no deviant jokes please).

SportsFanatic wrote:Bizzarely my post got lost so let's try again:

Not meaning to mock LJ, but are you seriously suggesting someone lieing outside the top 25 after the first round can't win the tournament. I had a quick look for you to see when it was last done on the European Tour....that would be last week when Bjorn was sitting outside the Top 30, 5 shots behind Goosen.

I'm not saying that Tiger is necessarily in the form to do it, but that eagle at the last does make a difference, changes the mindset and probably makes a player feel that if he makes the most of the morning conditions he can be in the top 10 come the weekend.

No. Just that the way in which it was stated is pointless.

4 shots off second place. That's totally meaningless.

Davie... by that logic you could also say.

The player I've chosen is 4 shots off second and in the top 30 players in the field..

Taking the fact that the 1st place player is then considered an outlying anomaly then you could say yes. He's within the SD for the field as a whole. But that outlying player still exists. And although in this case it's only 2 shots by that logic you could discount someone 5 shots ahead of second if you wanted to.

You can't apply that sort of stats to something like this in my opinion.

And I still say that a comparison to how much ground you need to make up to second is irrelevant. It assumes that the player out in the lead will come back to you. Which I don't think will happen. You want it... Go get em. Don't expect someone to come back to you. Ever.

LondonJonnyO wrote:

pedro wrote:4 shots from 2nd place is heck of a lot better than 6 shots. When you have been in an uphill battle for the last year I'm quite sure you'd be happy not to be out of contentioan already after the first day.

He's already 6 shots off the lead you numpty.

And he's taking far too many putts for a man who only hit 10 or so greens in regulation. Contention? If it's a 10 shot rule he'll be lucky to make the cut!

Not too be pedantic LJ, but you criticised him for stating Woods is back in contention before he mentioned the 2nd place post and then you also referred to the lead as if it was unattainable. As I say, don't think Woods will come through the field but I don't think you can call someone a numpty for suggesting someone in the top 30-40 players isn't in contention after day 1 and will be pleased finishing on an eagle to bring the first round home under par.

In all honesty... In this case... for the way he's playing and the consistency of his swing at the moment. Yes. The lead is unattainable for Woods I believe.

And getting excited about an eagle to shoot 1 under is a little pointless. It might be something to make me feel good... but for someone who is the world number 3 golfer it's hardly time to write home to the missus is it.

My posts also disappear. Am I already on the black list? I try again:
What matters is that you leave each round with a feel of having a shot at being in the mix coming down the stretch Sunday. Read the post round interviews, that's what they all say. 2nd place is never a goal in itself, certainly not for Tiger.

When there is only ONE distant leader, the past has shown that he can easily fall away. It might or might not happen, but you feel there is a chance since there is only one guy there. In fact, Oosthuizen could have fallen away during the Open and nobody would have been knocked off the chair. And that would suddently have brought 10 "distant" playes into contention.

Yes, if you were 20 shots off the lead after day on it wouldn't make difference if you made that eagle on 18. But when you after round 1 are within a few shots off the pack chasing one guy, you still beleive you can win the tournament.

pedro wrote:My posts also disappear. Am I already on the black list? I try again:
What matters is that you leave each round with a feel of having a shot at being in the mix coming down the stretch Sunday. Read the post round interviews, that's what they all say. 2nd place is never a goal in itself, certainly not for Tiger.

When there is only ONE distant leader, the past has shown that he can easily fall away. It might or might not happen, but you feel there is a chance since there is only one guy there. In fact, Oosthuizen could have fallen away during the Open and nobody would have been knocked off the chair. And that would suddently have brought 10 "distant" playes into contention.

Yes, if you were 20 shots off the lead after day on it wouldn't make difference if you made that eagle on 18. But when you after round 1 are within a few shots off the pack chasing one guy, you still beleive you can win the tournament.

Planning for someone else to fail thus handing you a victory is planning to fail. And as such planning your targets around coming second is planning to fail.

You'll never convince me that comparing yourself to whoever is currently second best is the way forwards.

pedro wrote:My posts also disappear.

When a thread gets busy like this, it is possible that someone has posted in between you starting to type your reply, and hitting send. When this happens, the forum software will show you the posts that have been made in the meantime and ask if you want to change what you have typed, or if you want to send it as it is.

It's easy to hit the wrong button at this point.

That could be why people think their posts are disappearing

On the plus side Davie.... Whether you agree or disagree with my point of view it's been bloody lively this afternoon! :606laugh:

LondonJonnyO wrote:

pedro wrote:My posts also disappear. Am I already on the black list? I try again:
What matters is that you leave each round with a feel of having a shot at being in the mix coming down the stretch Sunday. Read the post round interviews, that's what they all say. 2nd place is never a goal in itself, certainly not for Tiger.

When there is only ONE distant leader, the past has shown that he can easily fall away. It might or might not happen, but you feel there is a chance since there is only one guy there. In fact, Oosthuizen could have fallen away during the Open and nobody would have been knocked off the chair. And that would suddently have brought 10 "distant" playes into contention.

Yes, if you were 20 shots off the lead after day on it wouldn't make difference if you made that eagle on 18. But when you after round 1 are within a few shots off the pack chasing one guy, you still beleive you can win the tournament.

Planning for someone else to fail thus handing you a victory is planning to fail. And as such planning your targets around coming second is planning to fail.

You'll never convince me that comparing yourself to whoever is currently second best is the way forwards.

It's not planning. It's keep beleiving you have a chance. Golf is to a large extend a mental game. That's why I'll never be good at it.

Yes LJ - and that's GOOD!

BTW I've had this prepared for you next time you start name-calling :yellow card:

:606laugh:

Pedro. This is the crux of it to me... I can play the game a bit and have won a few things at the club level. Now I want a 36 hole scratch to my name.

I would never go into any round thinking I'm x shots off second place. That is counterproductive. I don't think anyone who is truly competitive inside themselves would ever think something like that. As I say... to me thats just planning to fail.

Davie wrote:Yes LJ - and that's GOOD!

BTW I've had this prepared for you next time you start name-calling :yellow card:

:606laugh:

Anyone know any football chants to have a go at the referee with? :606laugh:

LondonJonnyO wrote:Pedro. This is the crux of it to me... I can play the game a bit and have won a few things at the club level. Now I want a 36 hole scratch to my name.

I would never go into any round thinking I'm x shots off second place. That is counterproductive. I don't think anyone who is truly competitive inside themselves would ever think something like that. As I say... to me thats just planning to fail.

Gotta say 100% agreed on this point LJ, i've been lucky enough to win 36 hole scratch events and managed back to back Royal Engineers titles over 72 holes and Royal Cinque ports and RSG respectively against som e damn fine scratch players, and never once did i look at the boards and think well im 3 shots behind 3rd and 4 behind second. I was lucky enough to lead wire to wire on the first of those victories but the defence I was 5 back from the lead after rounds 1 & 2 my only thought was I need to be at least 3 shots better than the leader on days 3&4 to give me at least a 1 shot victory over him and thats how I looked at it what do i need to do to beat the guy in 1st place as if i'd set my sights on beting the guys in the immediate slots in front of me that wouldn't have won the event.

I just suggest you read or listen to the players' post round interviews. That's what they all say. It's about leaving the three first rounds with a good feeling about your chances. You always judge the probability of scenarioes and get motivated by this, not by the fact that you for gods sake need to make a birdie on each and every damn hole. That eagle on 18 for sure boosted the chances of Tiger winning. Not just because of the score it self, but because of the boost it gave mentally, knowing you are now only 4 shots off a chasing pack. Second place is interesting here since it's only round 1, and since there's only one player off the pack - who could easily fall away.
But now I won't argue anymore. I'm old and tired. Good night.

LJ

please follow the discussion, no one mentioned anything about tiger himself thinking how he compared to second. This was more a discussion from an outside perspective evaluating his chances.

McLaren wrote:LJ

please follow the discussion, no one mentioned anything about tiger himself thinking how he compared to second. This was more a discussion from an outside perspective evaluating his chances.

Mac. If someone is making an evaluation of his chances am I not allowed to express the opinion that the way in which they are doing so is nonsense? You might disagree with what I'm saying... but I am on the topic here whether you think so or not. You've berated me for being off the topic whilst I think you're attempting to be more than a little draconian recently.

Just watch back todays highlights and am I the only one who thinks that the grandstands and hospitality units here are ridiculously close to the course. On one par 3 Kaymer misses the green by 8 feet right and has to take a drop from a grandstand. Then the 9th hole their were 3 shots, Kayner, MAJ and Quiros where they missed the green right by again about 10 feet hit the hospitality units and rebounded back across the green into the water. Those were the only televised ones. Punished for shots that weren't that bad!

Nice to see Tiger starting to hit some decent shots, -3 for the day through 9, only hit the driver once though. Kaymer appears to be fighting his game early doors level front half but a real mixed bag of numbers on the card so far, Westwood playing nicely to, -2 through 9, not a dropped shot or missed fairway In site.

Big move from Tiger today with a 66 to put him currently in 2nd place. What little I saw this morning before leaving for work suggested that he is feeling a little more comfortable. What he needs it to string two more good rounds together. A 70 for Westwood keeps him nicely in the hunt too.

The suggestion is that the wind is getting up now, which will make it harder for those teeing off late - McIlroy has dropped a shot already. The later starters are going to have their work cut out to stay up there

Looks like kaymer may have struggled today, did anyone see him? Pleased for Tiger but until I've seen him string 4 decent rounds together I won't be putting money on him. last years Chevron saw him lead the feild for the first 3 days then get caught in the GMac machine. I actually thought he was back at the time (Even though it was a small feild) I was very wrong.

Lets hope young Rory can capitalise and show us just how good he is, and at least Lee is looking to be in good nick

Doc - from what I saw, Kaymer battled. He clearly wasn't on top form but he ground out a score and the way the weather seems to be turning it looks like he could still be within 3 or 4 shots of the lead at the end of the day

Was good to see Tiger firing again, as I was starting to wince everytime I saw the car crash that was happening. HE stil is a bit iffy with the big stick, i'm not sure stack and tilt makes for accurate driving but then im a mere mortal what would i know,

I watched their round unfold, Kaymer was fighting with himself all day, flashes of brillinace, foolowed by periods of poor quality not his usual self.

Westwood again the epitomy of conistency

Thomas AIken is having a fantastic Desert swing, his consecutive rounds of 67 this week giving him a 3 shot lead in the clubhouse so far today, Rory looks be out of sorts early doors, the kids got talent, but he needs to find a level of consistency to regularly contend hopefully this is the year he puts together a good full season rather than in parts

Yeah I missed the developing Aiken score when I posted that above about Kaymer. Looks like he will be 6 behind the leader at half way. Not sure I can see anyone getting passed Aiken if the wind keeps blowing

In all honesty Davie if the wind does continue to blow there are only 2 guys I can see from the top 10 catching him. They are both currently 4 back and thats Tiger and Sergio. Woods was hitting some good shots into the wind out there, and sergio has the game for any conditino as long as the flat stick is working. Westwoods well placed but I don't think he's great in the wind

With regard to Rory, I hope this is not dejavu because the Open he was a street ahead of everyone after day 1 and got completley blown away day 2. I would have thought that he had the game for the wind, or is this a flaw in his character, that he struggles from the front. I've long held the belief that he's touched with pure magic and can rip the feild apart and carry on moving away from everyone, as he's in a different league at times. But has he the game to do it when he has players pushing him. We saw at Quayle Hollow just how good he can be, but ....

That for me is the problem with Rory, everyone is saying how Woods can't put 4 rou nds together, but I find the same is true of Rory, he has 2 average rounds, 1 poor, and 1 magnificent. He needs to iron out the poor rounds and find a way of turning poor opening holes into solid rounds

Rorys picked up 2 shots so is not -1 for the day and not +1, could he prove me worng and be finding consistency at last

Well, i've just got back from the Majlis, having arrived there at 7m to watch the main group, who started at 8am local time. We only actually watched them on-and-off for probably 9 holes, because obviously the galleries following that group were really large and getting a view becomes difficult at times. Also, though it's winter time here, it's still pretty warm out there and walking around for 6 hours is really exhausting, so we also caught a few holes of the other groups.

Conveniently, as Westwood et al were playing the 9th, McIlroy was playing the 1st, so we nipped across the fairway and watched him through 9.

There's some wonderful golf being played out there, not just by the big boys but by several players. I was stood just left of the green when Davies eagled the 3rd from the fairway, and he then went on to birdie the following par 3 after putting his tee shot to about 6ft. Great stuff.

The course looks wonderful, as it always does. The fairways are just amazing, pure green surfaces, slightly spongey underfoot. Unlike some o fthe other courses here, the Majlis and the Faldo (both Emirates Golf Club courses) have softish fairways, easier to play off than Earth, which is typified by fairways that are cut very short and very hard underfoot.

Woods is obviously in great position going into the weekend, but it still looks like he's struggling slightly, battling it out. Still, to be fair, the Majlis is a battlers course, tight and full of twists and turns.

Still don't understand why the pros are offerd such a simple drop on 18 if they hit the hospitality building. On 18, Westwood was clearly a little put-out that Woods was given a very simple drop just off the back of the green, with loads of green to play with. That hole is too easy...the drop zone should be way back-left of the green, to discourage teh players from booming one into the stand. Still, as Jiminez discovered yesterday, that can be a risky policy!

I sometimes forget just how young Rory is, and fall into the trap of believing that every aspect of his game should be more consistent than would be reasonably expected from someone his age, He is (i.m.o.) the most natuarlly gifted player from within the ranks of the current crop of young PGA & European tour players and I think that some of the the questions that currently hang over his head will be answered as he matures and starts to rack up the victories, that said I agree with Maverick, Rory's Achillies heel is his (sometimes) inconsistent scoring over a whole tournament

theeldestboy, cheers for the on course report Were you just there today or will you be at the course every day ?

So the final scores on the doors for day to are:

Low Round of the day goes to Eldrick Tont "Tiger" Woods at -6, his 2nd bogey free round of the year. (must be improving lsightly then)

Rory rallies after early setback to shoot -4 and lead at -11
Aiken another solid - 5, 67 to sit joint 2nd on -10
Sergio the same as Aiken, I know many will root for Rors to win it wire to wire, but i'd rather se Sergio take the trophy

Promising youngster Mannasero slumps to a 78 and + 6 total for a missed cut, along with Last weeks winner bjorn

mav

i agree on rory not being able to put 4rounds together. the 2010 open being the worst example. quail hollow wasnt even that hot until round 4.

Exactly Mac, he only won Wual with a big last round, i'd love to see him put 4 together because if he does it once hopefully it will click in him what needs to be done, he needs to realise sometimes great champions can play winning golf by having 4 decent rounds rather than 3 mediocre and 1 outstanding, allhe has to do is look at segio and say well why hasn't he won a major and then look at himself some good comparisons can be made there

Slow day for the front runners Rory +3 through 5, maybe he won't prove me wrong by putting 4 consistent rounds together then! Can't hit a barn door at moment.

Woods hitting it solid but +1 today, as is his playing companion Anders Hansen.

Sergio is the only one moving forward from the front, his bunker play is sublime and is putting is working nicely and his playing partber steve webster also employing the claw like grip

I didn't see the action today but I just checked on the leaderboard and it looks very tasty for tomorrow! So many players within 3 or 4 shots in a very compacted leaderboard.

Looking forward to the final day!

Early doors on round 4,

Garcia level through 7. Woods +1 through 7 and not being as bold with his putts as the old Tiger would of been.

McIlroy seems to be proving myself and Mac right this week in that 2 good rounds and now his 4th round much like round 3 distinctly average. ( They showed footage of him pre round on the putting green and his practice look distinctly amateurish and uninterested)

Andersson-hed going along very solidly at -8

Chris Wood going along nicely -4 today and -7 for the event

The big mover is Alvaro Quiros -4 for the day including and eagle at the par 4 2nd hole to sit atop the leader board at -11, 3 clear of the chasing pack

Big trouble for Sergio at 9 taking a triple bogey 7 ... but did anyone see his drop? Was that a dropping zone? He put his third in the water but after a penalty drop, his 5th shot seemed not to have to fly over any part of the hazard. Maybe was a funny camera angle or maybe a dropping zone but I couldn't quite figure it out.

Quiros also in trouble now after taking an unplayable, he then thicked it straight into a palm tree and it stuck up there!

Well done Alvaro, well deserved. Sergio seemed to fall apart for some reason, so felt for him as it was great to see him on the road to recovery. Hope he can take some positives from this and get his game back on track. As for Tiger, well after being a fan of his for years I'm not bothered if I never see him at the top of a leader board again. His antics are now depressing me. Rory had a great chance but didn't shine again today, so needs to get his mojo back. Lee was ok, not much missing from his game, so won't be too long before he wins again.

Alvaro was a worthy winner, you get all sorts from him... great entertainment and he smiles through it all.

Well done Alvaro Quiros, a hole in 1 on 11 helped get things back on track, and he was a call up to my fantasy squad after franny pulled out so I'm happy and 3 consectutive rounds of 68 after opening with a 73 is something that Rory consistent scoring is what's required and not a 1 round blitz followed by 3 hanging by a thread

Tiger falls away and now is caught up in spittlegate!

Sergio crumbled, Rory again showing talent is not enough and he needs to have a little more about his metal game to pull scores out when his ball striking is off.

Looks like will be a while longer before Aiken cuts his locks and have to say I have thoroughly enjoyed the DDC, best event of the Desert swing.

As for the battle of the big 3 Lee Westwood world number 1 comes out on top again and deservedly so for his consistent play no doubt someone will argue No1 should have majors blah blah blah but the numbers don't lie