WWE Raw Results - Spoilers Ahead

Tonight's WWE RAW opens with stills from Survivor Series with Roman Reigns winning the WWE World Heavyweight Title, his spear on Triple H and then Sheamus cashing in Money In the Bank to win the title. We go live from Nashville, Tennessee with Michael Cole, JBL and Byron Saxton.

- Triple H and Stephanie McMahon make their way to the ring as Lilian Garcia does the introduction. Cole plugs the #NewChampion hashtag for tonight.

Stephanie welcomes everyone to RAW. They talk about how Roman Reigns turned down their opportunity a few weeks back. Stephanie says opportunity knocked again for Reigns after the tournament when all Triple H was trying to do was be a good boss and offer his congratulations. Triple H says Reigns chose to cheap shot him and that's why he's not champion tonight. Triple H says people should learn that life is based on opportunities, the ones you seize and the ones you lose. He gives a big introduction to Sheamus and out comes the new WWE World Heavyweight Champion.

Sheamus takes the mic and says it doesn't get better than this. He thanks everyone but they're booing him. He thanks Triple H for the introduction and the "you look stupid" chants start up. Sheamus says there's nothing fans can chant that will ruin his moment. He tells them to keep going but he won't let them stand in his way. He says Reigns made it to the top of the mountain last night but couldn't stay thee because he got Brogue kicked off. Sheamus laughs. He says the Roman Empire lasted 500 years but not this one, it lasted 5 minutes and 15 seconds. He told everyone that he was just one Brogue Kick away from winning gold and he proved that last night. Fans boo. Sheamus raises the title and asks who looks stupid now. He laughs and asks the crowd a few more times and they yell back at him, "you!" Triple H says he doesn't look stupid, he looks like the WWE World Heavyweight Champion. More boos. They both hug Sheamus and out comes Reigns to a big pop.

Reigns enters the ring and Sheamus calls him the former champion. Sheamus asks how that pride thing is working out for Reigns as Reigns comes face to face. Fans chant Reigns' name as he congratulates Sheamus. Reigns says he wants his rematch tonight and fans pop. Stephanie speaks up and says Reigns' chance to make demands with The Authority was lost last night when he speared her husband. She tells him to back up and get the hell out of her ring. Reigns asks Triple H if he's standing behind Stephanie because he's scared. Triple H steps up and they stare each other down for a few minutes. Triple H goes to speak but Reigns gets closer in his face to another pop. Triple H congratulates Reigns on spearing him last night and asks how it worked out because he doesn't have anything to show for it now. Triple H says Reigns will get his rematch when Triple H says so and it sure as hell won't be tonight. Triple H goes to leave and in comes a returning Rusev from behind with a big superkick on Reigns. Triple H and Stephanie are making their exit up the ramp now. Sheamus nails a Brogue Kick on Reigns. Rusev and Sheamus join Stephanie and Triple H on the stage as fans boo. Triple H says pride is a b---h and announces Reigns vs. Sheamus at TLC in a Tables, Ladders and Chairs Match. He also announces Reigns vs. Rusev for tonight.

- We get a look at Kane and The Undertaker defeating The Wyatt Family at Survivor Series.

- Still to come, The Dudley Boyz vs. Bray Wyatt and Luke Harper. We go to commercial.

The Dudley Boyz vs. Bray Wyatt and Luke Harper

Back from the break and out comes The Dudley Boyz. The Wyatt Family is out next with Bray Wyatt, Luke Harper, Erick Rowan and Braun Strowman. We get a video from earlier today where Wyatt said the Brothers of Destruction survived but The Dudleyz will pay for their sins tonight. Wyatt said they will break The Dudleyz in half and show their insides.

Fans start chanting for tables before the bell. Harper and Bubba Ray go at it to start. Bubba fights out of the corner but Harper drops him and claws at his face. Harper decks Devon on the apron but turns around to clotheslines from Bubba. Bubba with a big boot and a tag to Devon. They plant Harper on his face and look to put him away but Wyatt pulls him to safety as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and The Wyatts are in control after stopping the big "what's up!" headbutt during the commercial. Harper works Devon over and tags Wyatt back in. Wyatt with a big chop and a snap suplex. Wyatt misses the senton as Devon rolls out of the way. Bubba and Harper tag in. They go at it and Bubba hits a big backdrop. Bubba with clotheslines and right hands. Bubba with a big slam. He taunts Wyatt and turns around to a huge clothesline from Harper for the win.

Winners: Luke Harper and Bray Wyatt

- After the match, Rowan comes in and slams Devon. Strowman scoops Bubba Ray in the bear hug and leaves him laying. Fans boo as The Wyatt Family stands tall. Bray turns upside down in the corner and hits Sister Abigail on Devon. The Wyatts pose over Devon as we go to commercial.

- Back from the break and we get talk on The Undertaker, including a video from "Legends with JBL" featuring Shawn Michaels, Triple H and Steve Austin.

Sasha Banks vs. Becky Lynch

We go to the ring and out comes Sasha Banks with Tamina Snuka and Naomi. Back to commercial.

Back from the break and Becky Lynch is making her entrance. She's alone tonight. They lock up and go at it. Sasha mounts Becky with her face in the mat. Becky fights back with stiff shots. Sasha hits the knees in the corner for a 2 count as Team BAD cheers her on. Sasha keeps control and works Becky over with kicks in the corner. Fans do dueling chants for both. Tamina gets a cheap shot in on Becky and Sasha covers for a 2 count.

Becky makes a quick comeback and rolls Sasha up for 2. Sasha goes face first into the ropes hard. They trade shots and Becky hits clotheslines. Becky with more offense and a suplex but Sasha keeps fighting back. Becky gets the Disarm-Her applied but Tamina distracts the referee while Naomi pulls Sasha's leg under the rope to break the hold. This leads to Sasha rolling Becky up for the win.

Winner: Sasha Banks

- The announcers are talking about how fans want to see Sasha vs. WWE Divas Champion Charlotte when Paige appears on the big screen. She says she's still in line for a title shot and calls Charlotte a cheater. She yells at Cole and shows end the of the match at Survivor Series with Charlotte's arm under the bottom rope as she had Paige in the Figure Eight. Paige says she's a dirty player just like her dad Ric Flair. Paige says she's about to show everyone Charlotte is nothing, jut like her daddy.

- Still to come, WWE Tag Team Champions The New Day will celebrate their one year anniversary with a title match Open Challenge and a Country Music Jamboree in the ring. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and out come WWE Tag Team Champions with broomstick unicorns. Big E is wearing a cowboy hat and bandana. Kofi Kingston talks about how it's their one-year anniversary. Xavier Woods is disgusted that they have to celebrate in the home of country music. Kofi says they're all about the power of positivity but country music sucks. Big E says it's awful. They go on knocking country music.

They want to show the world what country music should sound like. They mock "Mammas Don't Let Your Babies Grow Up to Be Cowboys," replacing cowboys with booty, and say that's enough county music. They talk about issuing an open challenge for the WWE Tag Team Titles and out come The Lucha Dragons. Kalisto and Sin Cara both cut quick promos and hit the ring. Before a match can begin, out come The Usos. Woods says they have no business being out here and have no right to a title shot. Sin Cara says they were out here first but more is better. He proposes a Triple Threat and The Usos hit the ring. The New Day isn't happy. Big E says they have ruined the Jamboree. They're not giving anyone a title shot. Woods officially cancels the open challenge. The Usos and The Lucha Dragons attack The New Day and clear the ring. The Usos music hits as The New Day retreats.

- Still to come, Reigns vs. Rusev with Sheamus. Also, Paige will get her rematch against Charlotte tonight. Back to commercial.

- We come back to Renee Young backstage with Charlotte. Renee asks about Paige accusing Charlotte of cheating. Charlotte says she always has and will respect Paige as a competitor but she knows what kind of person she is, whether her hand was under the rope or not. Charlotte knows it's not over and she will be facing Paige tonight.

Mark Henry vs. Neville

We go to the ring and out comes Mark Henry. Neville is out next.

Neville strikes first with a kick and is keeping his distance. He ducks a big shot and lands another kick. Henry catches Neville and takes him to the corner, beating him down with headbutts. Neville fights back but Henry shoves him back into the corner. Henry tosses Neville across the ring and to the floor he goes. Neville comes back in and goes to the top for a big crossbody. Henry catches him in mid-air. Neville slides out of World's Strongest Slam and lands a kick to the head in the corner to take Henry down. We see The Miz looking on. Neville hits Red Arrow for the win and can't believe it.

Winner: Neville

- After the bell, Neville quickly goes to the floor and has his hand raised. He slaps hands with fans and is stopped by Henry on the floor. Henry extends his hand for a shake and tells Neville he has a bright future.

- Stardust is backstage doing a promo when Titus O'Neil appears. Titus apologizes for making a wrong turn and comments on how nice Stardust's room is. Titus barks and plays a joke on Stardust before walking off. Still to come, Goldust and The Prime Time Players vs. The Ascension and Stardust. Back to commercial.

Goldust and The Prime Time Players vs. The Ascension and Stardust

Back from the break and out comes Stardust, Konnor and Viktor. Goldust is out next for his RAW return, followed by Titus O'Neil and Darren Young.

Goldust and Stardust look to start off but Stardust immediately tags in Konnor. He tags in Viktor and they go at it. Back and forth until Young tags in and works over Viktor for a 2 count. Titus tags in and suplexes Young onto Viktor. Young comes back in and Stardust gets a tag. Young catches him in a throw and a 2 count. Viktor pulls Stardust to safety and decks Young for a 2 count. Konnor tags in for some big double teaming and a 2 count. Konnor drops elbows for another 2 count. Konnor with a headlock now.

Stardust comes back in and they keep Young in their corner. Titus finally gets the tag and unloads on everyone. Chaos breaks out as Goldust sends Stardust flying. The end comes when Titus hits Clash of the Titus on Konnor for the win.

Winners: Goldust and The Prime Time Players

- After the match, Goldust, Young and Titus dance together.

- Still to come, Alberto Del Rio and Zeb Colter's State of MexAmerica Address. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and out comes WWE United States Champion Alberto Del Rio with Zeb Colter.

Zeb takes the mic and says just because Del Rio was unsuccessful in his attempt to become WWE Wold Heavyweight Champion last night, that doesn't mean MexAmerica is a failure. He says young nations experience growing pains. Zeb knocks the fans for complaining on social media. Del Rio cuts a promo in Spanish. Zeb translates and says they tried to teach everyone values but they didn't listen and their charity is now canceled. Del Rio says the borders of MexAmerica are now closed forever. Zeb goes on insulting the fans when Jack Swagger's music hits and out he comes in jeans.

Fans chant USA as Swagger takes the mic. He says Zeb used to put his hand over his heart and stand for something. Swagger calls Zeb old, out of touch and bitter. Del Rio yells at Swagger not to talk to Zeb like that. This leads to Swagger walking to the ring for a fight. He enters the ring and Del Rio steps up but raises the title and backs out of the ring. Fans boo as Zeb and Del Rio leave with Swagger staring them down. Swagger tells Zeb to stop and listen as he tells the fans to give a big "We The People!" and his music his again.

- Still to come, Reigns vs. Rusev with Sheamus. Also, Paige vs. Charlotte with the title on the line. Back to commercial.

WWE Divas Title Match: Paige vs. Charlotte

Back from the break and out comes Paige first. WWE Divas Champion Charlotte is out next as we get formal ring introductions from Lilian Garcia.

The bell rings and they lock up going at it. They end up trading a bunch of big slaps early on. Charlotte takes Paige to the mat and works on the arm as she screams in pain. Paige gets to the rope and breaks the hold. Paige stalls on coming back in the ring so Charlotte pulls her back in by her head. Charlotte with offense and the Ric Flair strut for a 2 count. Charlotte with a head scissors. Charlotte tosses Paige around the ring with her legs. Charlotte misses in the corner but boots Paige and goes to the top. Paige pulls her legs out and Charlotte lands on her neck for a 2 count. Paige turns it around and unloads on Charlotte in the corner now. Paige with a submission.

Charlotte fights back but Paige beats her down. Paige with a bunch of knees on the apron. Paige with a running knee for a pair of 2 counts. Paige with a scissors of her own now. Paige keeps control and suplexes Charlotte onto the ropes. Paige with a big slap and kick to the face for another close 2 count. Paige with another suplex onto the ropes. Charlotte tackles her but Paige turns it around. Charlotte looks to finally make a comeback but they both collide with big kicks and go down. Back to commercial.

Back from the break and they're still going at it. Charlotte ends up taking Paige to the mat with a submission but Paige beaks it with the bottom rope. Charlotte spears Paige and they both land out on the floor. Charlotte tries to climb back in the ring but Paige pulls her back into the barrier. They both get counted out.

Double Count Out

- After the match, they go at it and Paige sends Charlotte into the steel steps hard. Paige clears the announce table and takes Charlotte on top. Paige applies the PTO until referees break it. She stomps on Charlotte's back and screams about her house. She stomps Charlotte again before leaving her on the table. Paige leaves as officials help Charlotte up.

- We get a look back at the opening segment with The Authority, Roman Reigns, Sheamus and Rusev. Still to come, Reigns vs. Rusev in the main event. Back to commercial.

Ryback vs. Heath Slater

Back from the break and Heath Slater is in the ring with a guitar and a microphone stand. He starts running down country music singers until Ryback interrupts for his entrance. He comes in the ring and Slater smashes the guitar over his back. This leads to Ryback squashing him for the win.

Winner: Ryback

- Still to come, Ambrose and Ziggler vs. Breeze and Owens. Back to commercial.

Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose vs. Tyler Breeze and Kevin Owens

Back from the break and Tyler Breeze, WWE Intercontinental Champion Kevin Owens and Dolph Ziggler wait in the ring as Dean Ambrose makes his way out. Ziggler and Breeze start things off as Summer Rae looks on. Owens comes in and works Ziggler over as a big "fight Owens fight" chant breaks out. Ambrose tags in and Owens tags out. Ambrose and Ziggler take turns on Breeze. Ziggler with two splashes. Ziggler misses Owens and turns around to a big kick from Breeze. Owens tags in with stomps on Ziggler. Owens keeps control and hits the senton for a 2 count. Owens talks trash to Owens. Breeze tags in and beats Ziggler down in the corner.

Owens with a headlock on Ziggler now. Ziggler fights out and hits Breeze a few times. Owens stops a tag and Ziggler dropkicks him. Ambrose and Breeze tag in at the same time. Ambrose unloads and clotheslines Breeze out to the floor. Ambrose runs the ropes and dives out onto him. Ambrose brings it back in and hits a swinging neckbreaker. Ambrose goes to the top for a missile dropkick on Breeze. Owens distracts Ambrose and Breeze rolls him up for 2. Owens and Ziggler get involved and go to the floor to fight. Ambrose counters Breeze and hits Dirty Deeds for the win as Owens looks on from ringside.

Winners: Dolph Ziggler and Dean Ambrose

- After the match, Ziggler hits the ring to stand with Ambrose as the referee checks on Breeze.

- Still to come, Reigns vs. Rusev with Sheamus. Back to commercial.

- Back from the break and Cole shows us a segment with JBL, El Torito and Mark Henry debating what they're going to have for lunch. Apparently this was to promote a new Hardee's burger.

- We get a look back at the end of the WWE World Heavyweight Title tournament at Survivor Series last night. Cole plugs Reigns vs. Sheamus in a TLC Match at TLC on December 13th.

Rusev vs. Roman Reigns

We go to the ring and out comes Rusev for his return match. New WWE World Heavyweight Champion Sheamus is out next to watch the match from ringside. We go to commercial.

Back from the break and out comes Reigns through the crowd. They go at it to start. Back and forth early on. Reigns hits a neckbreaker for a 2 count as we see Sheamus looking on from ringside. Reigns with a big thrust and right hands as fans count along in the corner. Rusev turns it around and drops Reigns' face on the turnbuckle. Rusev with kicks in the corner now. They end up on the floor and Reigns sends Rusev flying into the barrier. Reigns stares Sheamus down and they have words as we go to commercial.

Back from the break and Reigns is trying to fight out of a headlock. Rusev dumps him to the floor and distracts the referee, allowing Sheamus to drop Reigns with a cheap shot. Rusev thanks Sheamus and brings Reigns back in for more offense. Rusev works Reigns over and shows off some as Sheamus looks on.

Rusev with more kicks and a 2 count. Rusev keeps Reigns grounded again. Fans chant for Reigns as he fights to his feet and rocks Rusev with rights. Rusev kicks him in the gut. Reigns goes to run the ropes but Sheamus grabs his foot and they have words. Rusev nails Reigns from behind. Sheamus gets ejected by the referee and he's not happy. Rusev also throws a fit. Reigns with a 2 count from behind on Rusev. Reigns with a Samoan Drop and they're both down as the referee counts. They both get up and trade big shots around the ring. Reigns gets the upperhand and hits a huge flying shot to a pop. Reigns with clotheslines in the corner but he gets caught with a big heel kick from Rusev for a close 2 count.

Rusev goes to the top but Reigns rocks him with a right, and another. Reigns climbs up and Rusev fights him off, shoving him to the mat. Rusev nails a flying headbutt for a 2 count. Rusev goes on and stomps Reigns in the back. He goes for The Accolade but Reigns fights him off. Rusev stomps some more. He gets caught with a big Superman punch out of nowhere for a 2 count. They're both down as the referee counts again. Reigns jumps to his feet and gets fired up. He calls for a Superman punch but Rusev rolls to the floor. Reigns follows but runs into a superkick. Rusev sends Reigns into the barrier. Rusev continues the assault and rolls Reigns back in. Reigns meets him coming in and hits a bunch of knees and a kick to the face. Reigns with a Superman punch that knocks Rusev off the apron, landing hard on the floor. Reigns runs around and hits a Drive By. Reigns turns around to a big Bullhammer from King Barrett for the disqualification.

Winner by DQ: Roman Reigns

- After the bell, Barrett rolls Reigns in and slides a steel chair in. Reigns gets the chair and nails Barrett with it. Rusev recovers and beats Reigns down. Reigns blocks a chair shot with a right hand and hits Rusev with the chair several times in the back. Sheamus runs in and Reigns hits him twice with the chair. Fans pop as Sheamus goes right back out of the ring and Reigns' music hits. Sheamus backs up the ramp as Reigns motions for him to come back to the ring. RAW goes off the air with Reigns standing tall with a chair and talking trash to Sheamus.

The only thing I've watched was New Day's segment, and it was immense. Rest of the show I could easily miss.

- Back from the break and Cole shows us a segment with JBL, El Torito and Mark Henry debating what they're going to have for lunch. Apparently this was to promote a new Hardee's burger.

Sounds awesome! It reminds me of how the Bromans used to plug car insurance in backstage segments. Those segments were always well received by internet critics.

Also love how TexAmerica (supporting integration of cultures) are the heels and how Jack Swagger (supporting xenophobia) is the face.

All in all, good work WWE. I salute you.

I think it's more Del Rio and Zeb are acting elitist with their own nation, and Swagger is standing up for the everyday American.

I've not seen the show. But from a quick read it seems that Sheamus and Barrett are now the "enforcers" for The Authority. I think this is one that many have called for for some time and hopefully sees Kane and Big Show moved somewhere else.

The return of Rusev is interesting. If the scuttlebutt were to be believed he was in pretty warm water before his injury because of Lana's tweets. So bringing him back at such a high profile either indicates that time has passed, or with the injury count mounting WWE needs its best performers and can't be too choosy. In any case, this sounds much better than the angle he was in before his injury.

Am I just not remembering stuff very well at all, or has Sheamus been awful in ladder matches in the past?

The main event pretty much summed up why Reigns isn't as over as he should be.

-He should have been sneak attacked by Barrett or Sheamus so Rusev gets the pinfall win. It does nothing for Reigns if he loses and elevates Rusev at the same time. Alas, he gets the Cena booking, fighting off 3 men (including the "Champion") with a single chair, standing tall again. Yawn.

-Divas title match wrestled the way it should have been like yesterday, an all-out brawl.

-As for New Day, in the era of creative being utterly booty, who writes for New Day? Do they write their own stuff?

Prometheus wrote:Am I just not remembering stuff very well at all, or has Sheamus been awful in ladder matches in the past?  

Well he won one earlier this year for a big suitcase

psycho-gooner wrote:As for New Day, in the era of creative being utterly booty, who writes for New Day? Do they write their own stuff?

I'm pretty certain they do their own thing.

Marky wrote:

Prometheus wrote:Am I just not remembering stuff very well at all, or has Sheamus been awful in ladder matches in the past?  

Well he won one earlier this year for a big suitcase

Hahahahaha. True. Was he any good in it though, or did he just climb the ladder at the end. In my head he's a bit of a big unit to be using ladders very well.

Reigns v Sheamus in a TLC match, neither are known for their ability to utilise ladders.

This isn't my idea, but I agree with it.

WWE shouldn't waste a TLC match on Sheamus v Reigns. It could easily be a Chairs match with all kinds of brutal brawling which suits both guys. Or if they want Reigns to be screwed over without being pinned (which is what I suspect will happen) then a tables match.

Instead use what happened on Raw with New Day, Uso's and Lucha Dragons to have a Dudleys/Hardyz/E&C inspired three team TLC match for the tag titles. Show you're serious about the Tag Titles. Pretty much everyone in Lucha Dragons, Uso's and New Day would be able to make that a hell of a match.

They may still do that with a ladder match but still.

Thanks Marky, I think that is the direction that I'd started to head in.

TBH I'm quite over a lot of these gimmick matches unless they are done well. And that means you have to match the gimmick to the talent of the wrestler. It may still be the case that Sheamus and Reigns will put on a great TLC match with the ladder component, but these are big, big guys and they don't want to be taking a bump from 18ft the way a smaller build guy could. Plus, one of the best things about the ladder match at Mania was the insane speed that Ziggler was flying up them. That added a real intangible that he might be the other side of the ring, but he can climb like a monkey and just cos he's not first on the ladder doesn't mean he wont be first to the top.

Anyway I'm boycotting this whole PPV on behalf of Stairs. Too often overlooked in that past, we thought they'd finally got their chance to shine, but once again they seem pushed to the side. If there is no stair match, I'm out.

Prometheus wrote:Thanks Marky, I think that is the direction that I'd started to head in.

TBH I'm quite over a lot of these gimmick matches unless they are done well.  And that means you have to match the gimmick to the talent of the wrestler.  It may still be the case that Sheamus and Reigns will put on a great TLC match with the ladder component, but these are big, big guys and they don't want to be taking a bump from 18ft the way a smaller build guy could.  Plus, one of the best things about the ladder match at Mania was the insane speed that Ziggler was flying up them.  That added a real intangible that he might be the other side of the ring, but he can climb like a monkey and just cos he's not first on the ladder doesn't mean he wont be first to the top.

Anyway I'm boycotting this whole PPV on behalf of Stairs.  Too often overlooked in that past, we thought they'd finally got their chance to shine, but once again they seem pushed to the side.  If there is no stair match, I'm out.

They could finally do Taker v Sting as a Stannah stair match?

Hero wrote:

Prometheus wrote:Thanks Marky, I think that is the direction that I'd started to head in.

TBH I'm quite over a lot of these gimmick matches unless they are done well.  And that means you have to match the gimmick to the talent of the wrestler.  It may still be the case that Sheamus and Reigns will put on a great TLC match with the ladder component, but these are big, big guys and they don't want to be taking a bump from 18ft the way a smaller build guy could.  Plus, one of the best things about the ladder match at Mania was the insane speed that Ziggler was flying up them.  That added a real intangible that he might be the other side of the ring, but he can climb like a monkey and just cos he's not first on the ladder doesn't mean he wont be first to the top.

Anyway I'm boycotting this whole PPV on behalf of Stairs.  Too often overlooked in that past, we thought they'd finally got their chance to shine, but once again they seem pushed to the side.  If there is no stair match, I'm out.

They could finally do Taker v Sting as a Stannah stair match?

You'd prefer that to a Shackleton's High Seat Chair match?

RAW wasn't too bad considering how plain jane Survivor Series was, I liked the fact Rusev was brought back and I like that they seemingly going to use Barrett and Sheamus and Rusev in the Authority, right away you have three guys that could actually fit the system and also three non American's which suits Rusev specifically.

Enjoyed the New Day segement and thought the Charlotte/Paige Match had more more meat to it than their match at Survivor Series.

I wish they wouldn't book throw away Tag Matches with 4 guys who are in two individualsl fueds, I don get it nor buy into them, last week Amrbose/Ziggler went toe to toe in the WWE Title tourament, while I know it was deemed as just business there is still no logical reason to team them up, you have to think it'd be more realistic for Amrbose to help Reigns while it was 3 on 1

Glad that it seems Rusev, Sheamus and Barrett are joining forces with the Authority. Shame its a full year too late.

Yeah I'm supprised it was a decent raw, they should of had reigns attacked at the end though, seems a bit to early to have him already beat 3 members of the authority, which I think is a very good idea as well in having Barrett, sheamus and rusev in.

Dudleyz vs Wyatt family interests me. Ambrose vs Owens in a feud interests me, del Rio vs swagger interests me. Midcard there doing well on.

Marky wrote:

psycho-gooner wrote:As for New Day, in the era of creative being utterly booty, who writes for New Day? Do they write their own stuff?

I'm pretty certain they do their own thing.

Punk believes so.

Decent enough Raw. Good job WWE for seeing the chemistry of Sheamus, Rusev and Barrett worked and putting them together properly.

Kay Fabe wrote:I wish they wouldn't book throw away Tag Matches with 4 guys who are in two individualsl fueds, I don get it nor buy into them, last week Amrbose/Ziggler went toe to toe in the WWE Title tourament, while I know it was deemed as just business there is still no logical reason to team them up, you have to think it'd be more realistic for Amrbose to help Reigns while it was 3 on 1

Got to disagree. I think they have to use these types of matches on Raw and they long have. It is about giving them some time, some build on that feud and some ring work without blowing the actual match. Also, its not that Ziggler and Ambrose went and said "hey, lets go get these guys", it was a booked match and as faces they also have that decency in them that having a match with each other isnt a hate thing, it can build respect.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:

Kay Fabe wrote:I wish they wouldn't book throw away Tag Matches with 4 guys who are in two individualsl fueds, I don get it nor buy into them, last week Amrbose/Ziggler went toe to toe in the WWE Title tourament, while I know it was deemed as just business there is still no logical reason to team them up, you have to think it'd be more realistic for Amrbose to help Reigns while it was 3 on 1

Got to disagree. I think they have to use these types of matches on Raw and they long have. It is about giving them some time, some build on that feud and some ring work without blowing the actual match. Also, its not that Ziggler and Ambrose went and said "hey, lets go get these guys", it was a booked match and as faces they also have that decency in them that having a match with each other isnt a hate thing, it can build respect.

I can see your point and I know its a long used tactic, my main problem would be back long ago they'd have some kind of hook, a common denominator to make those specific pairings, it could have been both heels had the same manager or there was some kind of history between the face and both heels, it just felt like they threw two single feuds together for no other reason than they 4 guys are both working singles feuds with one another, there is no hook for me and thats why I can never watch these matches, I might end up missing a classic match sometime but it is what it is.

I also thought it'd be wiser and logical to use Ambrose to assist Reigns, agaib while I feel they spend to much time buddying up to each other I can't help feel you don't just switch your feelings or focus off so for me it'd havr been a natural reaction for Ambrose to assist Roman last night.

If Ambrose made a save last night then next week was in a Tag matche with someone against Owens & Barrett then I'd be interested in that because there would be a reason for that type of pairing

Even if they made Ambrose/Breeze last night followed by Owens/Ziggler, then next week the Tag Team match would have at least made sense to me, they've got 3 hours, its not like they really need to cramb things in, this is for me the laziness that has people switching off or even worse not bothering to watch.

It's kinda like the creative team doesn't think about continuity or characters motive, friendships etc.

Hero wrote:It's kinda like the creative team doesn't think about continuity or characters motive, friendships etc.

Its really that simple, as basic as you've put it, thats really all that needs to be remembered..... motives, friendships, enemies and character continuity

Some really low viewing figures coming in for Raw overall and the final hour in particular.

I agree, KF, I skip a lot of them, at least in the Attitude Era etc they made big main events from them. Equally, Ambrose and Owens have no real reason to feud, so the enticement wasnt there in that match. The 50/50 booking there again, and the fear. Use jobbers. Have Ambrose fight Slater. Have Owens beat Ryder. Make them long matches and occasionally have the underdog win. Just do more, WWE! TRY HARDER

However, whilst it wasnt logical, I'm happy Ambrose didnt help cos I am tired of Reigns and Ambrose doing everything together. It helps neither of them, especially Ambrose being the puppy dog. Right now I'd rather see Ambrose fighting and beating some character based wrestlers. I actually want to see him have a feud with Stardust.

As JR puts it: WWE are a shopping mall while every other promotion is a store front.

And the early ratings suggest the lowest figures since the mid ninties.

Hour 1: 3.19 million viewers
Hour 2: 2.99 million viewers
Hour 3: 2.71 million viewers

Fernando wrote:Hour 1: 3.19 million viewers
Hour 2: 2.99 million viewers
Hour 3: 2.71 million viewers

I kind of find the figures really interesting, just because I wonder how much of a show they are to WWE's plans in the mid-term future.

Right now, we know that:
- US and International TV rights give them a very large income, (something like 100M and 50M per year, respectively).
- US TV rights went a lot cheaper than WWE was promoting they would be, which really hit their share price at the time.
- WWE developing and building its Network which has (to a large degree) replaced its PPV business.

The viewing figures keep falling, but there is no indication that this concerns WWE either in terms of changing the style or content of Raw or in WWE presentations, where WWE Execs say that TV viewing figures are only one part of the metric and they look at YouTube and other social media figures as well as these.

My straw poll would be that I know a number of people who've said "I'd get the Network if it had Raw on it". And of course, it does, but delayed. So, I really wonder if WWE's mid-term plan is to stay on cable TV at all in the US. I think there are alternatives:
- Move all their product to the Network and see if that adds a million subscribers, which would be roughly in line with the TV income
- Move all their product to a non-cable broadcast network that could give them wider coverage, but at a lower income, to promote Network subscriptions
- Move their content to another OTT provider like Hulu or Netflix

If I were to make a guess I would say that they will probably do all 3. Maybe having the 3 hour Raw on The Network and the 90 minute Raw that is currently shown on Hulu on that platform and another broadcaster.

And that is why I think that right now WWE really doesn't care what its US TV figures are as long as it is maintaining the 1.1 - 1.2M subscriber level on the Network.

Noticed Sheamus's title doesn't have the customized side plates I think. Not sure if theres anything in that

He might do next Raw.

I think the problem with putting all WWE content on the Network is obviously you've then limited your growth, because it's going to be very hard for people outside of the sphere who already have the Network to see anything that makes them want to get the Network.

Crimey wrote:
I think the problem with putting all WWE content on the Network is obviously you've then limited your growth, because it's going to be very hard for people outside of the sphere who already have the Network to see anything that makes them want to get the Network.

I agree.  But we have to ask, where are the numbers coming from right now?  

I don't understand the US TV ratings, but my expectation would be that the circa 3M Raw viewers is a number of people in the room where Raw is on.  Whereas the Network figures are more akin to per household.  So, that 2M difference is probably much less than 2M.

WWE also keeps promoting how many viewers it has of its YouTube channel, so it is possible that they could use that as their wide platform, e.g. with Raw highlights and carry the full program on the Network.  Certainly, WWE keeps pushing its YouTube viewers and investors keep asking how they will monetise that.  So, I could see this "cut out the middleman cable TV", like cutting out the PPV carriers.

And maybe I'm misreading everything, but I can't help but come to the conclusion that WWE is not at all bothered about their cable TV ratings right now and I can't help wonder if that is because the next stage of the plan does not include them.  And it might be that WWE goes to a broadcast channel rather than cable TV to remove that pay barrier and get wider coverage which might promote the Network, but I don't think its complete pie in the sky to envisage them off TV as we know it completely.

Prometheus wrote:

Crimey wrote:
I think the problem with putting all WWE content on the Network is obviously you've then limited your growth, because it's going to be very hard for people outside of the sphere who already have the Network to see anything that makes them want to get the Network.

I agree.  But we have to ask, where are the numbers coming from right now?  

I don't understand the US TV ratings, but my expectation would be that the circa 3M Raw viewers is a number of people in the room where Raw is on.  Whereas the Network figures are more akin to per household.  So, that 2M difference is probably much less than 2M.

WWE also keeps promoting how many viewers it has of its YouTube channel, so it is possible that they could use that as their wide platform, e.g. with Raw highlights and carry the full program on the Network.  Certainly, WWE keeps pushing its YouTube viewers and investors keep asking how they will monetise that.  So, I could see this "cut out the middleman cable TV", like cutting out the PPV carriers.

And maybe I'm misreading everything, but I can't help but come to the conclusion that WWE is not at all bothered about their cable TV ratings right now and I can't help wonder if that is because the next stage of the plan does not include them.  And it might be that WWE goes to a broadcast channel rather than cable TV to remove that pay barrier and get wider coverage which might promote the Network, but I don't think its complete pie in the sky to envisage them off TV as we know it completely.

I think you're reading far too much into them supposedly not caring. I think this is a symptom of them being a publicly traded company. They can't be seen as panicking because suddenly their share prices will drop. I think WWE's long term plan right now is a very short term one of wait until Wrestlemania season when the ratings will pick back up again. 

Whether they will pick up again is a totally different question. I think they are going to be relying on part timers to bring the viewers in, but with their biggest trump card of The Rock not being available what they have left doesn't look particularly appealing, because most of them have been on TV a lot over the last year anyway. Shawn Michaels, hasn't been seen too much but very little chance of him wrestling, and I don't think that'd bring people in anyway. Steve Austin, wrestling would probably bring in viewers, but just as a personality? Seen way too much and I imagine a lot who don't watch all the time assume he's on WWE TV anyway, he never had as a noticeable break as The Rock. Undertaker, he's had a lot of appearances, wrestling on quite a few PPVs so his one-off Wrestlemania appearance isn't so one-off. Brock Lesnar will be back, but again he's not quite the special attraction that WWE want. Who's left then? Triple H, Sting, Ric Flair, Chris Jericho, Batista? None of these are exactly going to excite people. Ronda Rousey will likely be available, but maybe not quite the draw she could have been. I think WWE might get seriously shocked when following the Rumble the needle doesn't move much.

Right now I think they were expecting a ratings drop, maybe not as drastic as we have seen but they do have a ready-made excuse in that John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton are all inactive and then there new "star" Seth Rollins is injured as well. 

I think that WWE to stay at its current size, HAS to stay on a good network in a good slot, it's their main source of income and I don't think that the Network can adequately and consistently replace that. I'd hope WWE don't actually buy into their own marketing of their social media numbers, because whilst it is impressive, it is incredibly difficult to turn that into actual money and so you'd hope it is them simply bigging themselves up for advertisers, investors and even to make sure their current fans feel like it's big enough to stick around for.

Crimey wrote:
I think you're reading far too much into them supposedly not caring. I think this is a symptom of them being a publicly traded company. They can't be seen as panicking because suddenly their share prices will drop. I think WWE's long term plan right now is a very short term one of wait until Wrestlemania season when the ratings will pick back up again. 

I don't think that Wall Street really care about the TV figures. They are much more focused on the Network subscriber numbers. The share price dipped after the last call because WWE said they expected Network subscribers to be approx. constant to the end of the year, i.e. would not grow. I think most investors don't know the difference between WWE's Network and something like Netflix, so they expect constant growth. Not a big bump once a year then a bit of a slide. So, I think WWE could do a lot of things on TV and investors would not care. They will only care when the TV deal comes round to be re-negotiated and we are some years off that.

Whether they will pick up again is a totally different question.

I think the easy answer is no. One of the main things WWE has marketed its TV product on is that it is DVR-proof, i.e. like MNF people want to watch it live. This is clearly not true. I'd say there is a lot of DVRing of Raw and people watching it via the 90 minute Hulu package and YouTube. Unless WWE changes to a TV station that is not inside a cable pay wall, I don't see them getting those 4 - 5M viewers live, it is just not how TV is being consumed any more.

I think they are going to be relying on part timers to bring the viewers inbut with their biggest trump card of The Rock not being available what they have left doesn't look particularly appealing, because most of them have been on TV a lot over the last year anyway. Shawn Michaels, hasn't been seen too much but very little chance of him wrestling, and I don't think that'd bring people in anyway. Steve Austin, wrestling would probably bring in viewers, but just as a personality? Seen way too much and I imagine a lot who don't watch all the time assume he's on WWE TV anyway, he never had as a noticeable break as The Rock. Undertaker, he's had a lot of appearances, wrestling on quite a few PPVs so his one-off Wrestlemania appearance isn't so one-off. Brock Lesnar will be back, but again he's not quite the special attraction that WWE want. Who's left then? Triple H, Sting, Ric Flair, Chris Jericho, Batista? None of these are exactly going to excite people. Ronda Rousey will likely be available, but maybe not quite the draw she could have been. I think WWE might get seriously shocked when following the Rumble the needle doesn't move much.

Look at how their biggest part timer, Brock, he pretty much appears on The Network at the end of each quarter as a mechanism to keep those reported end of quarter network figures high. I'll admit they have used him on TV and have also used their 2nd biggest part timer, Undertaker, on Raw but I think their focus is clearly on Network subscribers, not peaking those TV numbers. There feels like very little focus on how former stars / part timers could be used to increase the TV ratings, and if I remember correctly when they had a few guys back on a recent show it didn't suddenly rocket the figures.

Right now I think they were expecting a ratings drop, maybe not as drastic as we have seen but they do have a ready-made excuse in that John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton are all inactive and then there new "star" Seth Rollins is injured as well. 

Not really the drop was quite steep from the end of the summer when Cena, Orton and Rollins were all present. Of course MNF is a factor, but even leading up to that figures were down compared to 2014. The trend of live viewers is further and further down.

I think that WWE to stay at its current size, HAS to stay on a good network in a good slot, it's their main source of income and I don't think that the Network can adequately and consistently replace that. I'd hope WWE don't actually buy into their own marketing of their social media numbers, because whilst it is impressive, it is incredibly difficult to turn that into actual money and so you'd hope it is them simply bigging themselves up for advertisers, investors and even to make sure their current fans feel like it's big enough to stick around for.

Ultimately the value of something is the price someone is willing to pay for it. The value of the last US TV deal was lower than WWE was projecting because of this poor link wrestling has between TV viewing numbers and ad revenue. With those viewer numbers sinking further and a big hole in WWE's argument that it is DVR proof, it begs the question of how much a cable TV channel may want to pay next time round and if there are other mechanisms WWE can explore to not only maximise its revenue, but maybe to also have more control over its product.

GSC wrote:Noticed Sheamus's title doesn't have the customized side plates I think. Not sure if theres anything in that

Rollins didnt get his plates added for about three weeks, so I wouldnt look too far into it. They probably havent even been made yet if the cash in was decided last minute.

I agree that Wall Street won't care about viewing figures, but they would care if news came out that WWE was panicking about them. I think you are vastly overstating the importance of the WWE Network to WWE at this point in time, sure that's the aim I think is for it to keep growing but right now the TV deals are still the most important financial backing in WWE's locker. Wall Street will be okay so long as WWE appear to be okay I think. 

I'm not saying that the part-timers are going to increase viewing figures or interest, in fact I'm saying the opposite. I just think that's what WWE believe. I do genuinely think they are relying on that pre-Mania boost and are using the injuries as an excuse. Of course it doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but I think it's easy for WWE to buy into their own lie that the figures are down because of a lack of star power. Obviously the solution should be to build new stars, but I think WWE are too comfortable with the idea that all will be solved when they bring the big guns back for Wrestlemania season and that people will start watching again, and both TV figures and Network subscribers will go up. 

I would be incredibly surprised if WWE are genuinely considering at this stage to move away from having their show on cable TV. I actually think it would be financial suicide at this stage to think they can be at all self-sufficient. Sure the money they are paid for the TV deal next time around may be smaller, but it is still a big show for USA, I believe their highest rating. In their favour is obviously the fact that, outside of sports, almost all TV viewing figures are down. I still think that even with a smaller deal WWE can't survive in its current state without the TV deal. It would also be crazy to think that now, with 1.2 Network subscribers, TV ratings going down, that moving towards separating themselves from standard TV would be a good move. It would be absolute madness I think. I don't think youtube packages are ever going to be enough to buy people into spending $9.99 a month on the Network. 

Raw may be low quality and viewing figures going down but it remains far and away their biggest advertisement for the WWE Network and I think if anything they should be putting more effort into Raw because if the quality of their cable TV product goes up the more likely viewers are going to want to buy the Network to get more of it and also to keep up to date with the PPVs etc. I think having everything on the Network, with snippets on Youtube or Hulu will simply lead to a drastic reduction in the overall size of the WWE fan base.

I would be hugely surprised if WWE moved away from TV. You can attract new viewers on TV, not so easy on the Network.

Crimey wrote:I agree that Wall Street won't care about viewing figures, but they would care if news came out that WWE was panicking about them. I think you are vastly overstating the importance of the WWE Network to WWE at this point in time, sure that's the aim I think is for it to keep growing but right now the TV deals are still the most important financial backing in WWE's locker. Wall Street will be okay so long as WWE appear to be okay I think. 

I think there is a long distance between my belief that I've not seen WWE do anything, so I find it hard to believe they care about TV viewing figures and taking actions that would be seen as panic. For example, when the fall schedule starts and WWE trumpets its "new season" they could have given the set a facelift. They could move give Michael Hayes a break for a month and let Heyman run the show. There are IMO a lot of things they could try, none of which they have done, all within the remit of their current contracts and certainly less obvious to investors than for example firing their Exec VP of Content, which didn't seem to raise any eyebrows in itself.

I'm not saying that the part-timers are going to increase viewing figures or interest, in fact I'm saying the opposite. I just think that's what WWE believe. I do genuinely think they are relying on that pre-Mania boost and are using the injuries as an excuse. Of course it doesn't hold up to scrutiny, but I think it's easy for WWE to buy into their own lie that the figures are down because of a lack of star power. Obviously the solution should be to build new stars, but I think WWE are too comfortable with the idea that all will be solved when they bring the big guns back for Wrestlemania season and that people will start watching again, and both TV figures and Network subscribers will go up. 

Yes numbers always go up and Mania and then drift down. Its just that the starting base is getting lower and lower every year. I still don't see how the recent injuries is an excuse for a clear trend that has gone on for the last 4 months.

I would be incredibly surprised if WWE are genuinely considering at this stage to move away from having their show on cable TV. I actually think it would be financial suicide at this stage to think they can be at all self-sufficient. Sure the money they are paid for the TV deal next time around may be smaller, but it is still a big show for USA, I believe their highest rating. In their favour is obviously the fact that, outside of sports, almost all TV viewing figures are down. I still think that even with a smaller deal WWE can't survive in its current state without the TV deal. It would also be crazy to think that now, with 1.2 Network subscribers, TV ratings going down, that moving towards separating themselves from standard TV would be a good move. It would be absolute madness I think. I don't think youtube packages are ever going to be enough to buy people into spending $9.99 a month on the Network. 

Raw may be low quality and viewing figures going down but it remains far and away their biggest advertisement for the WWE Network and I think if anything they should be putting more effort into Raw because if the quality of their cable TV product goes up the more likely viewers are going to want to buy the Network to get more of it and also to keep up to date with the PPVs etc. I think having everything on the Network, with snippets on Youtube or Hulu will simply lead to a drastic reduction in the overall size of the WWE fan base.

But the advertisement is limited. If less than 3M people are watching Raw on cable and the number of households subscribing to The Network is 1M that gives very little chance for growth. How many more of those Raw watchers can you convert? I think WWE has to find a way to penetrate many more viewers in the US than cable TV is offering. I don't know how that will be, but I think the way that TV programs are consumed and paid for could have significantly changed again by the time the next deal is negotiated. When the last TV deal was announced Vince lost $315M in one day, that's how much the shares dropped on the best offer WWE could get for a TV deal. If I were Vince I'd really want a Plan B in place before that could happen again.

I have stolen this from Reddit's Squared Circle. I wouldnt usually link another forum but it deserves it. These are figures and data represented in opinion, so they can also have other contexts, but the discussion is interesting.

Bah Gawd! The WWE is failing! Vince needs to go!:

Vince McMahon is untouchable. He currently owns 52% of shares, not counting Stephanie, HHH, or Linda’s ownership. It is impossible to remove him as a director.

Best case scenario, he could be removed as CEO/Chairman of the company. This would require at least a majority of directors, more than a quarter of whom are his own family. But even if there was a coup, there’s absolutely no reason to remove Vince from operations. Because, despite what it may seem, the company is actually doing really, really well right now.

If you look simply at Net Revenue, every single segment of WWE is profitable with the exception of the film division (down 2%) and the money earned/spent for talent appearances and other corporate operations which is flat. The important thing to note here is that these sums largely relate to films not yet released and to a segment of the WWE that makes up less than 1% of its total revenue. In other words, the only aspect of the WWE that’s not profitable right now is also almost entirely irrelevant.

Live shows, television revenue, dvd/blu-ray sales, merch, toys, the wwe network…everything that you would normally associate with the WWE is up. And up by a lot (38% since last year).

When you consider the OBIDA, which is largely what WWE executives and shareholders are concerned with, the results are exceptionally better (up over 700% since last year).

What the hell is an OBIDA?:
Now, I’m not a financial expert but I’ll do my best to explain what OBIDA is and why it’s particularly relevant to the WWE. OBIDA essentially eliminates one-time costs associated with producing the product. In the WWE’s case, this largely consists of the money spent to build the WWE Network, the WWE Performance Center, production equipment, one off tax ependitures, legal fees, etc.

In the case of the WWE, based on their OBIDA for this year, you can expect their Net Revenue to be much, much higher in 2016. Considering the move of Smackdown to the USA Network, the continuing rise of NXT, and the near guaranteed increase in WWE Network subscriptions, I suspect that revenue increase will be quite sizeable. Considering the quality of the show of late, I might stop watching, but if I had extra money, I’d probably buy stock in WWE right now.

The Ratings Don’t Matter…at least not right now:
The fact is, despite the fall in ratings, the company is up almost 50% in net revenue from DVD sales, TV, WWE Network, YouTube ads, etc. They're up 20% in net revenue from live shows. And they're up 20% in net revenue from licensing, merchandise, toys, and games.

They're stock is more valuable today than it was 5 years ago. And that’s despite a massive crash in their stock at the start of 2014, caused by a failed negotiation with NBC Universal. Essentially, investors saw a big pot of money coming from a possible contract, they inflated the value of the stock in the span of a few months, the deal fell through, and the stock returned to normal. Anyone who says that WWE stock fell 50% between 2014-2015 is technically right, but also an idiot.

Across the board, television ratings are down about 10% since last year. The number gets worse if you look at 18-24 year old demographics which is down nearly 20%. Raw is doing quite worse than that and has dropped roughly 30% since last November. And if you feel like you’re seeing more advertisements, you likely are. I haven’t seen numbers for the USA Network or Raw specifically, but advertising on television across the board is up 10%.

Now, whether this matters or not is difficult to tell. Continuous reports on ratings slides can’t do much to inspire investor confidence. Unfortunately, if the company keeps making money, I wouldn’t expect to see the stock start to depreciate regardless of ratings.

You’re not the demographic their looking for:
The bulk of money being made right now has to be from children and parents. The 20+ year old smark that occasionally buys a Kevin Owens or Bray Wyatt shirt, who might see a live show once a year, and subscribes to the WWE Network is valuable but doesn’t compare whatsoever to the kid demographic. Those kids have a warddrobe of merch, they drag their parents/friends/siblings to live shows, christmas presents are full of replica title belts, action figures, and steel cage playsets. The average 8 year old is generating far more revenue for the WWE than the 20-40 year olds.
Unless those kids stop caring, there’s simply no reason to change the product. And sadly, the kids just wanna see Roman beat up the bad guys from week to week. I mean, just look at the top merch sales at live events from this summer.
1. John Cena
2. Roman Reigns
3. The Usos
Which one of you Frak bought that Uso’s shirt?!
But seriously, the product ain’t for us anymore, at least not right now.
And, honestly, none of you are going to cancel your WWE Network subscription. You could completely stop watching Raw and Smackdown but won’t you still pay $10 a month for NXT, Table for 3, Legends, Breaking Ground, every PPV, and access to a library which contains all those wrestling memories that you cherish to this day? Of course you will. And the truth is, that $120 each year is likely more than you were ever giving the WWE before.

Sources:
http://www.prowrestling.com/top-wwe-merchandise-sellers-revealed-details/
http://www.wrestlinginc.com/wi/news/2015/1124/604168/wwe-raw-viewership-drops-under-3-million/
http://www.cagesideseats.com/wwe-raw/2014/11/4/7157715/wwe-raw-ratings-nov-3-2014-no-john-cena-vince-mcmahon-return-viewers
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1091907/000109190715000040/wwe-9302015x10q.htm
http://www.businessinsider.com/tv-ratings-decline-2015-9
World Wrestling Federation company charter and bylaws…can’t be bothered to find the public link to the document.

TL;DR:
The WWE is fine. They don't need you. And for the foreseeable future, they're right.

http://ir.corporate.wwe.com/Cache/1001204762.PDF?Y=&O=PDF&D=&fid=1001204762&T=&iid=4121687

Thank you both. These is feeding into what I'm saying, isn't it? That Vince really isn't that concerned by viewing figures.

After that I make some conjecture on where that might be heading and that may or may not be anywhere near the mark, but it is clear that the viewing figures are of low importance. And when I look ahead and say WWE might not be on cable, I'd not have imagined 3 years ago that PPVs would no longer exist, that a film shown first on an OTT rather than cinema would be an Oscar forerunner, that shows on Netflix and the like have as much buzz as shows on TV, etc. I think the TV world is changing fast and with the introduction of PPVs way back when, syndicated TV deals and the Network, Vince has always been on the front of the wave of how entertainment is delivered.

I think any kind of big change like that could come across as panic, sure it might be a risk that pays off in the long term, but WWE simply aren't the kind of business today that takes risks. They stick to a formula and right now it is working. Like I said all TV ratings are falling, Raw ratings might be falling at a slightly faster rate but they're still in a pretty comfortable position. Especially if the ratings rise in the Spring as I imagine they are expecting them too. No change suggests comfort, if they are panicking in private, the best thing they can do is make sure that isn't reflected on their public image, which includes any big changes to the show, which right now is their most obvious public image display.

I don't believe the injuries are an excuse, but can WWE spin that they are? Of course they can. Whilst the viewers have been falling for months, it is very easy for WWE to point at the number of stars they have had made unavailable, even if that doesn't reflect reality. 

Raw isn't their only form of advertising though, but it's certainly their most effective. Very few other forms of advertising are going to be reaching 3 million people weekly. Sure they could be reaching more people, but losing TV would be a step in the wrong direction, not the right one. You've got to see Raw for what it is, one big advert, whether it be their sponsors, their T-shirts, the WWE Network, their live shows Raw's primary purpose is first the TV money given by NBC and then second to advertise everything else and right now it's working as an advert. The amount of Network subscribers is good, and of a portion of the 3 million probably about right. Obviously the best way to gain viewers and with it more buyers of their products is to improve Raw, but right now I think you're simply overreacting to the falling viewers, it's not a problem right now and I think WWE fully expect it to change during Wrestlemania season without having to make the effort to change right now or to keep the momentum afterwards. They are at a really good position financially and that is what matters. I think most people believe WWE could be in an even better position financially, but like I said WWE are not risk-takers at this moment in time and they would rather stick to a formula which seems to be working and stay where they are than change things up and rise or at the very least prevent a decline in the future.

Prometheus wrote:Thank you both.  These is feeding into what I'm saying, isn't it?  That Vince really isn't that concerned by viewing figures.  

After that I make some conjecture on where that might be heading and that may or may not be anywhere near the mark, but it is clear that the viewing figures are of low importance.  And when I look ahead and say WWE might not be on cable, I'd not have imagined 3 years ago that PPVs would no longer exist, that a film shown first on an OTT rather than cinema would be an Oscar forerunner, that shows on Netflix and the like have as much buzz as shows on TV, etc.  I think the TV world is changing fast and with the introduction of PPVs way back when, syndicated TV deals and the Network, Vince has always been on the front of the wave of how entertainment is delivered.

I don't think he's concerned that much about the rise and fall of TV figures, because at the moment there isn't enough evidence that they affect everything else. But to go from that and draw the conclusion that WWE don't need TV at all is a huge stretch. TV remains the most important part of their business model, without it, those other profits simply don't exist. Raw is the advert for the DVDs, the games, the t-shirts, the Network itself, the Youtube channels. Netflix only has the ability to create original programming because it has pulled in people with shows that are on TV in the first place. If Netflix over time became a platform which contained ONLY their original programming, I'm not sure it would be as successful. Even after building up a loyal customer base it would have to be putting out a lot of significantly quality programming for it to remain at the top. 

WWE can build the WWE Network, it can put more and more stuff on there, create more original programming, emphasise the Network over everything else over time but I think that will always rely on them having a good presence on TV, which it still does.

Crimey wrote:I think any kind of big change like that could come across as panic, sure it might be a risk that pays off in the long term, but WWE simply aren't the kind of business today that takes risks. They stick to a formula and right now it is working. Like I said all TV ratings are falling, Raw ratings might be falling at a slightly faster rate but they're still in a pretty comfortable position. Especially if the ratings rise in the Spring as I imagine they are expecting them too. No change suggests comfort, if they are panicking in private, the best thing they can do is make sure that isn't reflected on their public image, which includes any big changes to the show, which right now is their most obvious public image display.

I don't believe the injuries are an excuse, but can WWE spin that they are? Of course they can. Whilst the viewers have been falling for months, it is very easy for WWE to point at the number of stars they have had made unavailable, even if that doesn't reflect reality. 

Raw isn't their only form of advertising though, but it's certainly their most effective. Very few other forms of advertising are going to be reaching 3 million people weekly. Sure they could be reaching more people, but losing TV would be a step in the wrong direction, not the right one. You've got to see Raw for what it is, one big advert, whether it be their sponsors, their T-shirts, the WWE Network, their live shows Raw's primary purpose is first the TV money given by NBC and then second to advertise everything else and right now it's working as an advert. The amount of Network subscribers is good, and of a portion of the 3 million probably about right. Obviously the best way to gain viewers and with it more buyers of their products is to improve Raw, but right now I think you're simply overreacting to the falling viewers, it's not a problem right now and I think WWE fully expect it to change during Wrestlemania season without having to make the effort to change right now or to keep the momentum afterwards. They are at a really good position financially and that is what matters. I think most people believe WWE could be in an even better position financially, but like I said WWE are not risk-takers at this moment in time and they would rather stick to a formula which seems to be working and stay where they are than change things up and rise or at the very least prevent a decline in the future.

WWE / Vince are nothing but risk takers. Buying up all the other territories. The first Wrestlemania. The Attitude Era. The XFL. Changing from PPVs to the Network. Some of those risks have worked out and made millions. Others have flopped and lost millions. But they have a history of taking risks.

Crimey wrote:If Netflix over time became a platform which contained ONLY their original programming, I'm not sure it would be as successful. Even after building up a loyal customer base it would have to be putting out a lot of significantly quality programming for it to remain at the top. 

The huge growth of Netflix has been widely attributed to its move to original programming. WWE has hugely invested in original programming this year. Their original programming content (I believe) outweighs the library of archive material in watchers. Raw is their most prestigious original program (with the exception of Wrestlemania). If I were an exec of WWE I'd be asking the question of how do I get most value from this in a few year's time when the current TV deal expires. I would not be convinced that a first run of that program on cable TV is definitely the best way to leverage money from it. If it is all about eyeballs seeing the product to generate the Network, merchandise, ticket, etc. sales then finding a slot on ABC or NBC or CBS might provide that, and if a cable partner is not willing to pay so much then, then the deal might be more attractive. Lots and lots of options I believe that doesn't mean Raw has to be on a cable channel in a few years time.

I cant see a product like WWE going away from TV. Its the only way new viewers get to see it.

On top of that, Vince sees it as a competitor to things like the NFL. He won't like real sports being on somewhere he isnt.

Surely the mere fact that cable TV viewing figures are falling and falling means that there is less and less chance that new viewers are being picked up via this media. Platforms like Hulu and YouTube allow new viewers. And if WWE wants to step change its TV viewing figures then it seems that their move has to be away from cable TV and to one of the big 3 networks.

Does that prove anything though? I would guess that regular viewers are the ones dropping away, knowing about DVRs and illegal means. Will a 1 hour programme recapping a three hour programme appeal on YouTube? Hulu it works, to some extent, but it certainly doesnt add to viewers in a way that social media buzz and being able to flick a channel does. Or for regaining casual fans.

I'd imagine cable is relatively prevalent too.

I am not sure I can see Network subscribers doing well without TV. In many ways, Raw is just a huge advert for the Network anyway, but one they get paid a lot of money to make.

Equally, WWE give a lot of content with their deals. Do you mean Raw only going Network?

All we know is that fewer people are watching, but I find it highly hard to believe that 500,000 regular viewers leave and 300,000 new viewers join for each 200,00 drop in regular viewing figures.

One of the common complaints about Raw is that it is too long at 3 hours. And the hourly figures above support that. So, the Hulu 90 minute show seems appealing to me. Why not push a 90 minute show on YouTube. Or a 90 minute show on a non-cable TV like ABC, NBC or CBS? Why not use FB advertising, Twitter advertising to draw viewers in a targeted way rather than hoping people flick through a cable TV show, stay with it and get hooked enough to spend big.

Ah well. All very forward looking and subjective. But WWE isn't bothered about their declining viewing figures. I believe that isn't something that they don't just worry about because it is seasonal (i.e. away from WM and in football season) but is something they don't worry about because they have the TV deals in the bag and all concentration is on growing the Network. And I might be wrong on this, but I'd not be at all surprised if the next WWE TV deal is not on a cable TV channel.

I would presume the social media trends is what gets people to flick on. And boredom. More likely to be listless and flicking on TV. But its mainly the trends. However, they've overdone Stone Cold and the like appearing so no one is flicking on cos they heard about baldy showing up.

They've just signed a big Smackdown deal with USA that will see some Smackdown revamps and I know Cena is booked for the first show on that channel. That indicates they are still interested in growing that market.

The problem here is that we are talking about WWE not caring about something they are doing wrong. The issue with that could be that WWE don't think they are doing anything wrong. So they assume the figures do not relate to how good their content is.

Prometheus wrote:One of the common complaints about Raw is that it is too long at 3 hours.  And the hourly figures above support that.  So, the Hulu 90 minute show seems appealing to me.  Why not push a 90 minute show on YouTube.  Or a 90 minute show on a non-cable TV like ABC, NBC or CBS?  Why not use FB advertising, Twitter advertising to draw viewers in a targeted way rather than hoping people flick through a cable TV show, stay with it and get hooked enough to spend big.

Because they get an hours extra money from advertisers? The advert money for Twitter and Facebook is considerably lower than what they get for a good TV slot like they have right now. They're not in the same league.

Crimey wrote:

Prometheus wrote:One of the common complaints about Raw is that it is too long at 3 hours.  And the hourly figures above support that.  So, the Hulu 90 minute show seems appealing to me.  Why not push a 90 minute show on YouTube.  Or a 90 minute show on a non-cable TV like ABC, NBC or CBS?  Why not use FB advertising, Twitter advertising to draw viewers in a targeted way rather than hoping people flick through a cable TV show, stay with it and get hooked enough to spend big.

Because they get an hours extra money from advertisers? The advert money for Twitter and Facebook is considerably lower than what they get for a good TV slot like they have right now. They're not in the same league.

To be pedantic, WWE doesn't sell its advertising. But it does get paid more in for a 3 hour slow. However, how much will that TV deal be the next time it is renegotiated and the viewing figures are low. It will almost certainly not be in the same league.