Which exiled players should be picked for Wales ?

First topic message reminder :

Which players that have chose to play outside of Wales have a chance of still being first choice for Wales next year ? We all know that there is no such thing as Gatlands law, and it's just a made up crock of shoite to sell news papers, but Gatland has shown a ruthless streak in years gone by, Dwayne Peel stands out as the highest profile one. But of the following list, who do we think is "safe" for a Welsh spot ?

North
Roberts
O Williams
Priestland
Faletau
Charteris
Halfpenny
M Morgan
Hook
B Davies
I Evans
Hibbard
Francis

Out of that list, I think Roberts, Charteris and Faletau will be picked. Halfpenny is injured but might come back to Wales, but with the others there are better options in Wales. For me I think Faletau needs to be squirming as he has chosen to leave Wales, but the rest have either taken themselves out of the reckoning, or were already playing outside of Wales before the DC's were put into work. North for me does not deserve a place if we are going to go with form.

Is it worth Wales looking at Jonny Williams of London Irish for six nations? According to the wales online, he was a welsh youth player and his fathers welsh. With Tyler Morgan, jack Dixon, Scott Williams all injured and foxy and Cory Allen just returning from injury, is j Williams worth a punt? Wouldn't be the first time either gatlands trusted a rookie in his welsh team

Cap him and then cast him aside when the rest get back. That's Gats style.

On the contrary, he's loyal to the young players he picks... Prydie and rhodri williams being the obvious exceptions but its hardly gatlands fault the players havent developed since they announced they first came on the scene. Other one or two cap wonders in his reign have come against the barbarians (harry Robinson and Adam warren) which shouldn't count as a cap and on the tours to japan/usa when the majority of the squad are on lions duty when he has no other choice to pick them.

Raven, Gats has said that the only reason he capped North/Cuthbert/Prydie/Fury (and I am to assume that Francis and Morriarty also fall in this bracket) when he did was purely because they were qualified for other nations as well as us, and he didn't want to sit on his hands an wait and see if they could become good enough only to lose them to another nation.

So I do honestly believe Gats would cap this kid, and then the moment that all his 'prefered' options are fit he would drop him (unless of course Williams is an instant star).

I'm not debating he picked them because they were dual qualified, I'm debating he drops them after capping them. North and Cuthbert have been main stays since their first cap despite showing no form for two years. Tom prydie is not English qualified as he's from porthcawl and warren fury was only a short term call up as wales needed a scrum half and warren and Shaun knew his game from working with him at wasps. Thomas Francis was pretty shocking in the world cup but no doubt he's in the welsh squad for the 6 nations even though he's tied down to wales now...all the players you mentioned were called up because there was a need at their position, we have a need at centre and when someone scores 5 tries in 6 games, I don't think you can discount them when the alternative is ben john, Gareth Owen or Adam hughes

Or Adam warren I should add...

Prydie was English qualified through a family member, he was never going to end up being English capped granted. But he was English qualified and that is why he was capped, I can't find the article where Gatland mentioned it, but it was in one of the Western Fail's Q&As with Gatland it was mentioned.

As for young Williams, yes we do need another centre for this coming 6Ns. However, come the summer, will we still need him? Will we be dropping Foxy, Scott, or Roberts for him. Or for that matter will he be considered ahead of the likes of Tyler Morgan (who the union are already paying a NDC for), Jack Dixon, or Corey Allen? I would really doubt it, unless he comes in and fits in with the training/game plan, and manages to make himself a stand out choice.

The difference with North and Cuthbert is Gatland likes to have big athletic men in his squad, and there are no other big athletic wingers kicking around who are available to us. Hell to be fair there were not really many decent wing options available to us at all, we were at a point were Hanno Dirkson was looking like a possibility or even Kris Phillips. We are only really staring to see more options becoming available to us on the wings, with Amos and the other dragons kid (his name has escaped me) starting to show well, and Thom James playing well too.

Anyway, I guess time will tell.

Ashton Hewitt. I can't ever picture Tom James back in the mix though, kind of burnt his bridges hasn't he?

mikey_dragon wrote:Ashton Hewitt. I can't ever picture Tom James back in the mix though, kind of burnt his bridges hasn't he?

Cheers Mikey, that's the boy. He has come on so far already this season. He looked a bit like a young Kris Phillips early on to me, great in attack but a bit worried when trying to stop bigger men. But in fairness now he seems pretty solid defensively.

James was in the RWC training squad pre-injury, so hopefully enough water has passed under the bridge now. Also being a big lump, he fits the job description for Wales.

I haven't really seen him do a blunder in defence yet, though having said so I didn't see the loss to Castres away, a game in which we shipped 4 tries - nor have I watched every single one of our games this season. I think if he was a bit of 'Walker' in defence we'd have heard about it by now.

Yeah James could be an option again I guess, but I still think Cuthbert is in some terrible form.

SS he's only just started his professional career so not suggesting he's going to replace anyone and if Scott Williams was fit then I wouldn't have brought his name up, however, doesn't matter if you're starting your career or at the peak of it, 5 tries in 6 games for a centre in a team at the foot of the league is impressive and not something we've seen from our other young centres. He's clearly one for the future if he opted for wales over England but i don't think wales would just cap him and drop him, he'd be in the same situation as Cory Allen, Dixon, etc waiting for the next opportunity. But its all hypothetical as he may choose england!

True Raven wrote:SS he's only just started his professional career so not suggesting he's going to replace anyone and if Scott Williams was fit then I wouldn't have brought his name up, however, doesn't matter if you're starting your career or at the peak of it, 5 tries in 6 games for a centre in a team at the foot of the league is impressive and not something we've  seen from our other young centres.  He's clearly one for the future if he opted for wales over England but i don't think wales would just cap him and drop him, he'd be in the same situation as Cory Allen, Dixon, etc waiting for the next opportunity.  But its all hypothetical as he may choose england!

Think we may have crossed wires.  I would class being selected, capped and then not selected (due to higher profile players being fit/available) as being capped and dropped, even if it is a case of being picked back up in a season or twos time.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out anyway.

On a more worrying note, Jake Ball is out for 10 weeks, so won't be available for the 6Ns, so I would guess that is AWJ, Charteris and Davies being used in all five games, with King being used as a utility forward.

I don't really know who this guy is - can you explain his link to Wales? It seems a bit of tenuous one. Also what is his rugby history with regards to U20 duty and academy rugby? It doesn't seem like he has any intentions to opt for Wales even if he is good enough.

SS - I would hope not. King is a 6, not really a decent player elsewhere. Then again if he's on the NDC then he'll get selected anyway.

His fathers from north wales and he played age grade rugby first for wales and then later for England. He's expected to be in their under 20s campaign this year but has been in the first team for London Irish this year. He's really not in a different position to ross Moriarty. The guy is eligible for wales and England, why not approach him and bring him to training camps like they did with tomos Francis.

If ball is out surely Thornton is in considering they gave him a dual contract otherwise why waste money on him

Well if he's commited to Wales then he shouldn't really be playing for England U20s. I know that's the path that Morarity went down, but I think Williams should probably know by now where his heart lies. I'm not sure what the case was with Moriarty, I think he went with England to get 'more noticed' as he had long slipped away from Welsh radar. If this Williams is that good then I would hope Welsh academies and the U20s are looking to get him on their books. I also think we might have learnt with letting guys slip away from the net after Moriarty seeing as our U20s were bringing in guys from the Tigers and Bristol academies.

The Guardian wrote:Williams has been one of the few reasons to be cheerful for Irish this season after graduating from the club’s academy and making a try-scoring debut against Agen last month a few weeks after his 19th birthday. Capped by Wales, the land of his father, at under-16 level and for England Under-17s and Under-18s, while qualifying for Scotland through a grandparent, the 6ft 2in centre combines strength with subtlety.

“Johnny is one to watch,” said Maitland. “I am not going to blow smoke too early, but he is finding his feet every game and after scoring tries regularly his confidence should be sky high. He carries the ball well and it says everything about his progress that he came up against a pretty good 12 today in Luther Burrell and held his own.”

Looks as if he's triple qualified then. Wonder if he's on Gatland's radar .

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Cap him and then cast him aside when the rest get back.  That's Gats style.

Overall he hasn't done that and the ones he has done it to maybe just weren't good enough

ScarletSpiderman wrote:

True Raven wrote:SS he's only just started his professional career so not suggesting he's going to replace anyone and if Scott Williams was fit then I wouldn't have brought his name up, however, doesn't matter if you're starting your career or at the peak of it, 5 tries in 6 games for a centre in a team at the foot of the league is impressive and not something we've  seen from our other young centres.  He's clearly one for the future if he opted for wales over England but i don't think wales would just cap him and drop him, he'd be in the same situation as Cory Allen, Dixon, etc waiting for the next opportunity.  But its all hypothetical as he may choose england!

Think we may have crossed wires.  I would class being selected, capped and then not selected (due to higher profile players being fit/available) as being capped and dropped, even if it is a case of being picked back up in a season or twos time.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out anyway.

On a more worrying note, Jake Ball is out for 10 weeks, so won't be available for the 6Ns, so I would guess that is AWJ, Charteris and Davies being used in all five games, with King being used as a utility forward.

Still don't rate King. I wonder if as you mentioned yesterday maybe Thornton might make the squad again?

He was born in Berkshire and lived there all his life, has been at London Irish since 14, its just so happens his old man is welsh. I think the age grade pathway in England is a lot better than in wales. We lost in Swansea a talented Matthew Morgan type fly half called mat protheroe to Gloucesters academy to go to school in hartpury and he ended up being there englands under 18 flyhalf and has already played this year for Gloucester albeit against the barbarians at 18 years old. Don't know how the English system is better but it just seems young lads chose that pathway if they can and johnny Williams aside, they're looking at welsh school boys to join up in their system

Bedford, i see your point.  But time will tell if this kid is good enough. Or if he will be another Warren Fury, Martyn Thomas, Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams (until his recent return), Dan Evans etc.

True Raven wrote:He was born in Berkshire and lived there all his life, has been at London Irish since 14, its just so happens his old man is welsh.  I think the age grade pathway in England is a lot better than in wales. We lost in Swansea a talented Matthew Morgan type fly half called mat protheroe to Gloucesters academy to go to school in hartpury and he ended up being there englands under 18 flyhalf and has already played this year for Gloucester albeit against the barbarians at 18 years old.  Don't know how the English system is better but it just seems young lads chose that pathway if they can and johnny Williams aside, they're looking at welsh school boys to join up in their system

At lower levels there are just far more opportunities for youngsters to get professional training, and a decent education to fall back upon, whilst earning a few quid too.

It's worrying to lose talented youngsters to a country with an already huge player base....

Saw this rugby world article about England's potential World Cup team at 2019 and mat protheroe makes their team alongside Tuilagi, slide, ford etc and he was poached at a young age from a Swansea school so he'd qualify for residency when he starts his professional career

An England 23 for Rugby World Cup 2019

Born leader: Maro Itoje is a candidate to lead England at Rugby World Cup 2019

15. Mat Protheroe
Current number of caps: 0
Age at start of Rugby World Cup 2019: 22
A left-field pick to headline the team-sheet, but if Protheroe’s jaw-dropping progress in age-group rugby continues – and England can keep him away from the clutches of Wales, his country of birth – he could be impossible to ignore. Blessed with electric pace, kicking accuracy and the skilful awareness of a natural first-receiver, the prodigy was signed up by Gloucester this spring amid a number of circling suitors

My understanding is that Gatland will be allowed Wild Cards, 2 this season, 3 next? I suspect that Phillips will want to encourage Wales stars to play in Wales so he will be keen not to go outside these parameters.

So this season only Roberts and Priestland are affected. Whether it's due to greedy agents or players, next season there will clearly be a lot more in this position. Roberts again will clearly be one of the wild cards as by all accounts he kept the WRU in the loop on his transfer to Quins. Faletau, Charteris and North have pretty much stuck two fingures up to the WRU, so will they now miss out on the financial rewards and kudos of playing for team Wales? If not, what will stop other Wales stars turning their backs on the Regions and cashing in on the big salaries on offer in England and France?

Isn't it the though the fault of the regions for not making themselves an attractive option? Take Tomas Francis for example, Exeter discovered him when he was playing for Doncaster, developed him and he's playing in a good team competing for the playoffs and in the main European cup. Why would he want to join a blues region in disarray? Or why should he be forced to play for them. Even halfpenny has an issue, why would he want to join a club where people want to leave (patchell and Cuthbert) and not play in the main European competition which he's been accustomed too. Demanding players like halfpenny play in wales, will lead to the Sam Warburton effect where they hardly turn out for their region as they r the wru's commodity and the region are wasting their money where it could be put to better use. They should be able to play where the want to and where they'd be happy and not be forced to be somewhere

Warburton is an outstanding player that always puts his body on the line, injuries can't really be prevented for happening. A good idea would be giving him some sort of sabbatical IMO (like McCaw had) as his body needs a rest. We can developing more open-sides then as we have a good 7 (Blues and Dragons have two) at each regional team.

Seagultaf wrote:My understanding is that Gatland will be allowed Wild Cards, 2 this season, 3 next? I suspect that Phillips will want to encourage Wales stars to play in Wales so he will be keen not to go outside these parameters.

So this season only Roberts and Priestland are affected. Whether it's due to greedy agents or players, next season there will clearly be a lot more in this position. Roberts again will clearly be one of the wild cards as by all accounts he kept the WRU in the loop on his transfer to Quins. Faletau, Charteris and North have pretty much stuck two fingures up to the WRU, so will they now miss out on the financial rewards and kudos of playing for team Wales? If not, what will stop other Wales stars turning their backs on the Regions and cashing in on the big salaries on offer in England and France?

I still won't believe it until I see it, there are so many loop holes in the RSA that I still think Gatland will pick who he wants when he wants. I honestly cant see him NOT picking Roberts Faletau or North, Charteris might lose out but then again with Ball injured and Davies playing in England himself we are a bit short on established 2nd rows.

The one player who we really don't have cover for is Faletau, I would be quite happy next season to see us go with Sc Williams and JD in the centre with someone like Amos in place of North but who would replace Faletau I just don't know.

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford, i see your point.  But time will tell if this kid is good enough. Or if he will be another Warren Fury, Martyn Thomas, Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams (until his recent return), Dan Evans etc.

SS,

Were they discarded or was it more they were tried and deemed not good enough which I my opinion (Ll Williams aside maybe) I don't think any of them were.

bedfordwelsh wrote:

ScarletSpiderman wrote:Bedford, i see your point.  But time will tell if this kid is good enough. Or if he will be another Warren Fury, Martyn Thomas, Tavis Knoyle, Lloyd Williams (until his recent return), Dan Evans etc.

SS,

Were they discarded or was it more they were tried and deemed not good enough which I my opinion (Ll Williams aside maybe) I don't think any of them were.

Time will tell.

However, from what I have seen of the kid so far. I do not think he would be getting into the squad if we had Foxy, Roberts, Scott, Morgan, Allen and Dixon fit. So IF he were to get called up and capped, then he would find come the next welsh squad being announced (for the NZ tour) he would not be involved. Yes originally I over simplified it as 'Capped and then dropped' but I did assume you boys would have considered the fact there are numerous players returning.

Also, just out of curiosity, what is the difference in being dropped, discarded, or just not good enough to make the cut? Surely they are all the same thing, you are either in the squad or you are not.

True Raven wrote:It's worrying to lose talented youngsters to a country with an already huge player base....

Saw this rugby world article about England's potential World Cup team at 2019 and mat protheroe makes their team alongside Tuilagi, slide, ford etc and he was poached at a young age from a Swansea school so he'd qualify for residency when he starts his professional career

An England 23 for Rugby World Cup 2019

Born leader: Maro Itoje is a candidate to lead England at Rugby World Cup 2019

15. Mat Protheroe
Current number of caps: 0
Age at start of Rugby World Cup 2019: 22
A left-field pick to headline the team-sheet, but if Protheroe’s jaw-dropping progress in age-group rugby continues – and England can keep him away from the clutches of Wales, his country of birth – he could be impossible to ignore. Blessed with electric pace, kicking accuracy and the skilful awareness of a natural first-receiver, the prodigy was signed up by Gloucester this spring amid a number of circling suitors

Some interesting bits in a Gloucester Citizen article from the Hartbury director of rugby Alan Martinovic. The most interesting is "He has made a huge amount of progress in 18 months. He was on the verge of giving up rugby because he wasn't getting opportunities anywhere. He was not in the Ospreys development programme and certainly no one in England was aware of him."

http://www.gloucestercitizen.co.uk/Hartpury-coach-backs-whizzkid-Mat-Protheroe/story-26591559-detail/story.html

Giving up rugby at 16? Don't find that believable. All that article states is hartpury coach credits himself for the development of a potential star....the reality is he was a schoolboy poached...

You don't think 16 (the point where all kids need to make decisions about their career) is a point where someone might give up on being a pro player? Especially if no interest has been shown by the development system in Wales? Then given the numbers of participation in most countries after school drops massively as people give it (and had been identified as a problem in Wales by Mr Lewsey) up it's not really surprising at all.

I suppose if the Hartpury coach isn't credited with the improvement it must be that the Welsh development system is incompetent (since they hadn't identified his capabilities).

Either way, moving was a good thing him.

Oi! Find your own players!!!

Sorry the tone of my last post was quite rude but what I was getting at was rugby in wales links through to the communities and so id imagine he'd still play in school/college and then his local club which may or may not be swansea which links through to the ospreys. You're right though, the welsh development system i imagine is a shambles which is why they've seem to put a lot of effort into it the last couple of years.

With the English system hammer, am I correct in thinking that English academy's can only recruit players from their own catchment areas?

I read an article before that English scouts attend welsh junior games handing out business cards to discuss scholarships and I just don't agree with approaching schoolboys to poach them at that age. Unfortunately i cant link but if you search mat protheroe it appears.

True Raven wrote:Giving up rugby at 16? Don't find that believable.  All that article states is hartpury coach credits himself for the development of a potential star....the reality is he was a schoolboy poached...

Raven, you seem to be very well informed, I haven't read the article, but if it says that he was going to give up at 16 because he wasn't in the Ospreys Academy, it is quite believable because even to this day our academy starts at the U16s, there is an Ospreys Cup for U15s with their local clubs, where some of these players are identified for the following years Academy, there are a pool of about 80 or more brought to evaluation and training sessions, they are then put into the (think) local college teams, who play other college teams around the Regions, they are finally separated into East and West A teams and development teams, the final separation comes when they represent the Ospreylia region U16s. The system has radically altered since the Halfpenny debacle when he was allowed to leave, the man who made that decision paid for it by losing his job not long after.

I appreciate our academy is not the best at identifying talent but my point was that his career isn't over at 16 which the article tried to make it out to be. Scott Baldwin was at my old school in Bridgend and he's a prime example of a player who made it despite never being in an academy and he could even become a lion next year and he made it as a professional rugby player cos when he was in school chose skateboarding instead of rugby but after he left played for Bridgend athletic as most young lads do in Bridgend as its a social thing if anything else which got him noticed by the ospreys.

RE the rules around Gatland's law. When did it really come into focus, this season? All of those playing in French in English teams before then remain exempt. Roberts moved this season, but to another team outside of Wales so he would need to be a wildcard. North remained with the team he joined before the wildcard ruling, and Halfpenny is also expected to do so, therefore I think they also remain exempt - however had they moved to a different team then they would need to be wildcard selection. Both Davies' at Wasps and Clermont are still exempt, though one of them at least will be coming home. Charteris, Faletau next season and Priestland this season are not exempt. I think this is how it works.... In an injury crisis, like the one we have in the backs, then we'll probably see less of Gatland's law enforced.

Gatland will pick any and every player he thinks he needs - wherever they play.

We are too small and lack quality depth to place petty self constraints on our international prospects. Relying only on the "regional" game in Wales will mean tier 2 status at best.

offload wrote:Gatland will pick any and every player he thinks he needs - wherever they play.

We are too small and lack quality depth to place petty self constraints on our international prospects.  Relying only on the "regional" game in Wales will mean tier 2 status at best.

I think this agreement is in fact in Wales and Gatlands best interests, the players will be looked after and kept fresh and of course Gatland will have the players for longer and we have all seen the benefits that at his brings. Also it will raise the standard of the Regional game which will increase attendances.

I suspect what we have is greedy agents and naive players thinking that they are too big and important for the rules of the participation agreement to apply to them.

This agreement has restored unity to the game in Wales after a long period of civil war, from what Phillips said a few days ago, I suspect that at some stage a hard line will be taken and some of the players who have taken the big money to play for the rich English and French clubs will be missing out on their Wales appearance money's.

How will having players rested for regional games so they're fit for Wales increase attendances?

What the blues need to do is not waste money on Jamie Roberts and Leigh halfpenny when they're made available to Wales anyway and spend it on quality NWQ players like Nick williams and salesi maafu who will be available all year round and improve the quality of the squad and then they can win some matches without relying on the dragons imploding. A successful team then should increase attendances

As our friends against the border remind us, it was Gatland who was risking George Norths health whereas Northampton had his best interests at heart and rested him, so Wales haven't got a great track record of looking after their players....

True Raven wrote:How will having players rested for regional games so they're fit for Wales increase attendances?  

What the blues need to do is not waste money on Jamie Roberts and Leigh halfpenny when they're made available to Wales anyway and spend it on quality NWQ players like Nick williams and salesi maafu who will be available all year round and improve the quality of the squad and then they can win some matches without relying on the dragons imploding.  A successful team then should increase attendances

As our friends against the border remind us, it was Gatland who was risking George Norths health whereas Northampton had his best interests at heart and rested him, so Wales haven't got a great track record of looking after their players....

Supporters will pay to watch their heroes play, that how attendances will improve.

The regions need the Welsh stars and good quality NWQ players, just like the Irish provinces.

North is not a good example, Northampton have looked after him so well that he has gone from one of the best players in the game, an absolute superstar, to someone who is only holding onto his place in the Wales side because of injuries and lack of depth in his position.

Seagultaf wrote:

True Raven wrote:How will having players rested for regional games so they're fit for Wales increase attendances?  

What the blues need to do is not waste money on Jamie Roberts and Leigh halfpenny when they're made available to Wales anyway and spend it on quality NWQ players like Nick williams and salesi maafu who will be available all year round and improve the quality of the squad and then they can win some matches without relying on the dragons imploding.  A successful team then should increase attendances

As our friends against the border remind us, it was Gatland who was risking George Norths health whereas Northampton had his best interests at heart and rested him, so Wales haven't got a great track record of looking after their players....

Supporters will pay to watch their heroes play, that how attendances will improve.

The regions need the Welsh stars and good quality NWQ players, just like the Irish provinces.

North is not a good example, Northampton have looked after him so well that he has gone from one of the best players in the game, an absolute superstar, to someone who is only holding onto his place in the Wales side because of injuries and lack of depth in his position.

I admire your optimism but I think this is a naive opinion. We are a long way from having the money in Wales to support top quality professional rugby with the best players happy to play here. After all these years - the product just isn't good enough. Year after year the attendances prove it.

offload wrote:

Seagultaf wrote:

True Raven wrote:How will having players rested for regional games so they're fit for Wales increase attendances?  

What the blues need to do is not waste money on Jamie Roberts and Leigh halfpenny when they're made available to Wales anyway and spend it on quality NWQ players like Nick williams and salesi maafu who will be available all year round and improve the quality of the squad and then they can win some matches without relying on the dragons imploding.  A successful team then should increase attendances

As our friends against the border remind us, it was Gatland who was risking George Norths health whereas Northampton had his best interests at heart and rested him, so Wales haven't got a great track record of looking after their players....

Supporters will pay to watch their heroes play, that how attendances will improve.

The regions need the Welsh stars and good quality NWQ players, just like the Irish provinces.

North is not a good example, Northampton have looked after him so well that he has gone from one of the best players in the game, an absolute superstar, to someone who is only holding onto his place in the Wales side because of injuries and lack of depth in his position.

I admire your optimism but I think this is a naive opinion.  We are a long way from having the money in Wales to support top quality professional rugby with the best players happy to play here.  After all these years - the product just isn't good enough.  Year after year the attendances prove it.

I totally agree that the standard is not great but it won't get better if the Regions keep losing all of their best players. If the product is not good enough people will not pay good money to watch it. There is no doubt that the standard was better when the regions were able to hold onto their players and I can't see what is naive about expecting better players to raise the standard again!

If we allow greedy agents to pursuade their players to take the bigger salaries on offer outside Wales and also expect them to pick up the appearance monies for playing for Wales, then the professional game will die in Wales. We have an agreement between the regions and the WRU, this could be the last chance!

I think having our internationals in Wales will improve the standard of rugby and the attendance at live matches slightly, it can only be a good thing.

mikey_dragon wrote:I think having our internationals in Wales will improve the standard of rugby and the attendance at live matches slightly, it can only be a good thing.

I agree.

The most important thing for Welsh rugby is something Jonathan Davies has been saying for years, that is to raise the standard of the Premiership

The Premiership? I don't think so. It's the regional teams that need investment and improvement across the board. The rest will hopefully fall into place and Gats won't have such a job on his hands when it comes to international rugby.

mikey_dragon wrote:The Premiership? I don't think so. It's the regional teams that need investment and improvement across the board. The rest will hopefully fall into place and Gats won't have such a job on his hands when it comes to international rugby.

The stronger the Premiership is the stronger the regions will be.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:The Premiership? I don't think so. It's the regional teams that need investment and improvement across the board. The rest will hopefully fall into place and Gats won't have such a job on his hands when it comes to international rugby.

The stronger the Premiership is the stronger the regions will be.

I agree. Hiwever, there are two ways to build, top down or bottom up. The union have taken a top down approach. So now they seem, semi-content with the national side the next building point would be strengthening the regions, and then when they are regular euro-comp knock out stage competitors, the union can turn their attention to improving the prem etc etc. I'm not sure that is the best way to do things, but going from how the things have been dealt with so far, that is what I would expect.

But guys it starts with the regions. The premiership's purpose in the present era is to hold onto historical club ties and keep the regions' academy boys warm. The introduction of the premiership select teams has further emphasised this.

mikey_dragon wrote:But guys it starts with the regions. The premiership's purpose in the present era is to hold onto historical club ties and keep the regions' academy boys warm. The introduction of the premiership select teams has further emphasised this.

And the stronger the premiership is the richer the vein of talent that the regions have to pick from. Wales need more better players to be competitive against top teams in international rugby.

Our strength and depth is very good considering the size of the country but no where near NZ, a similarly sized nation.

Their strength is the NPC and rugby below that is of a high standard, it used to be the same in Wales in the fifties, sixties and seventies.

We need to improve the game from the bottom up.

This is happening, the WRU and regions have done a lot of good in these areas

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:But guys it starts with the regions. The premiership's purpose in the present era is to hold onto historical club ties and keep the regions' academy boys warm. The introduction of the premiership select teams has further emphasised this.

And the stronger the premiership is the richer the vein of talent that the regions have to pick from. Wales need more better players to be competitive against top teams in international rugby.

Our strength and depth is very good considering the size of the country but no where near NZ, a similarly sized nation.

Their strength is the NPC and rugby below that is of a high standard, it used to be the same in Wales in the fifties, sixties and seventies.

We need to improve the game from the bottom up.

This is happening, the WRU and regions have done a lot of good in these areas

Maes in the current era it's rare that we select players from the premiership. We sometimes get the odd one from there who managed to slip through the net, otherwise we rely on the academies - the PS XV is full of past and present academy boys. Like I said it still serves a good purpose in Wales, it's a high standard of rugby, especially for youngsters who aspire to be professionals. It can only go so far, I don't see what we can do to change it so that we have more pro players in Wales? For me the bottom up is grass roots, before U16 level. Get up to England's level there and we'll be laughing.