Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
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Welly
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formerly known as Sam
George Carlin
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: Club Rugby
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Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Leicester Tigers v Munster Rugby
Sunday 20 December 2015
KO: 17:15
Welford Road, Leicester
Live on BT Sport
Referee Jerome Garces (France)
Touch Judge 1 Thomas Charabas (France)
Touch Judge 2 Salam Attalah (France)
Fourth Official Jean-Marie Piraveau (France)
TMO Jean-Marie Piraveau (France)
Assessor Gordon McMurray (Scotland)
Citing Commissioner Jeff Mark (Wales)
A. Head to Head
5 Played 5
3 Wins 2
2 Losses 3
0 Draws 0
85 Points 75
B. Recent Form
12 December 2015
Munster 19 - 31 Leicester
27 August 2010
Munster 13-17 Leicester
20 January 2007
Munster 6 - 13 Leicester
22 Oct 2006
Leicester 19 - 21 Munster
13 April 2003
Leicester 7 - 20 Munster
25 May 2002
Leicester 15 - 9 Munster
C. Teams
Leicester Tigers
Veainu; Thompstone, Betham, Smith, Goneva; Burns, Youngs; Ayerza, Youngs, Cole; Fitzgerald, Kitchener; Slater (c), O'Connor, McCaffrey.
Replacements: Thacker, Aguero, Balmain, Barrow, Croft, Harrison, Bell, Bai.
Munster Rugby
Conway; Earls, Saili, Hurley, Zebo; Keatley, Murray; Cronin, Sherry, Ryan; Chisholm, Ryan; Copeland O'Callaghan, Stander (c).
Replacements: Scannell, Kilcoyne, Sagario, Foley, O'Donoghue, O'Leary, Scannell, Gonzalez Amorosino.
Last edited by George Carlin on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 10:40 am; edited 2 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
In Europe you have to win your home games. Today is no different for Tigers. It's a must win. Grab a win here and a bonus point vs Treviso next time out and we're certain of a home semi final and could send a reserve team to Paris.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Agreed Sam. It's a huge game.
I've been so impressed with the improvements made this season but I have felt a few times that we have been moments from losing a few games.
On the one hand we have seen how playing a new style with new players can be implemented quickly by the right coaches with the right player. We have also seen inconsistency in our play due to the unfamiliarity of players. This is only to be expected and they have been few which is great to see.
However, I've felt that it has taken moments of individual brilliance at key moments to salvage things a few times. Take Nikki beating 3 men with no right to for his try when it looked like we may have squandered an opportunity - it should have been a pen try yes, but we should have taken it out the refs hands.
Hopefully those moments continue today and we don't have a slip up due to errors at key points of the game.
On the game itself I expect a real backlash from Munster after losing at Thomond. They may not be the force old and losing POM and TOD from a back row would hurt any side. They are usually much tougher unit to break down than we saw last weekend and I'm expecting every bit of that to come out today.
I've been so impressed with the improvements made this season but I have felt a few times that we have been moments from losing a few games.
On the one hand we have seen how playing a new style with new players can be implemented quickly by the right coaches with the right player. We have also seen inconsistency in our play due to the unfamiliarity of players. This is only to be expected and they have been few which is great to see.
However, I've felt that it has taken moments of individual brilliance at key moments to salvage things a few times. Take Nikki beating 3 men with no right to for his try when it looked like we may have squandered an opportunity - it should have been a pen try yes, but we should have taken it out the refs hands.
Hopefully those moments continue today and we don't have a slip up due to errors at key points of the game.
On the game itself I expect a real backlash from Munster after losing at Thomond. They may not be the force old and losing POM and TOD from a back row would hurt any side. They are usually much tougher unit to break down than we saw last weekend and I'm expecting every bit of that to come out today.
king_carlos- Posts : 12766
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
formerly known as Sam wrote:In Europe you have to win your home games. Today is no different for Tigers. It's a must win. Grab a win here and a bonus point vs Treviso next time out and we're certain of a home semi final and could send a reserve team to Paris.
Jumping the gun a touch Sam, especially as we would not be guaranteed top spot in the group (your scenario gives us 23pts, while Stade could still get 25), let alone winning the 1/4 final. However win today and at least a 1/4 final spot is all but guaranteed.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Yeah meant quarter not semi final. Blame it on a Sunday early start.
For Stade to get 25 points would be an impressive resurgence. I expect a backlash from Munster today and I expect them to be anything but lackadaisical in their approach to the games with Stade particularly at Thomond (losing twice in the group stages there is surely unthinkable).
For Stade to get 25 points would be an impressive resurgence. I expect a backlash from Munster today and I expect them to be anything but lackadaisical in their approach to the games with Stade particularly at Thomond (losing twice in the group stages there is surely unthinkable).
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Munster are so difficult to watch this season. Murray is off form but Keatley is just terrible. Overall they look pretty clueless in attack for the most part. A few offloading cameos aside.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Munster will never win anything of note with Keatley as a playmaker/kicker. The lad is 28 already and it was clear 3-4 years ago that he doesn't quite cut it at this level.
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Can someone please tell me what Garces said when he binned Barrow please. There had not been a series of penalties and they had given away a penalty in a much more threatening position not long before.
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VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Incredibly dumb penalty for Barrow to give away. It's pure idiocy. Harsh yellow card and no more cynical than the high tackle that brought down TV in the Munster 22. As LT says not even close to the line but it's a moronic stone wall penalty so I can only blame Barrow. Having said that Garces has been poor.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Should have scored there. Poor clearing out by us but there's some unsupported bodyweight there.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Murray and Keatley are a laughing stock.
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
The pack has literally fallen asleep. They are getting totally blown off the park at the breakdown. I think I remember telling the Tiger's fans on here that this would happen...
Stander is the only player in the back row doing his job.
Stander is the only player in the back row doing his job.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Munster and Leinster are just a mess at the minute. I've never seen so many players off form at the same time.
LeinsterFan4life- Posts : 6179
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Just turned this on 15mins ago but Ben Youngs is looking sharp. I've always wondered why he's more than often brought off as he's a big performer for the 80 when given a chance.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
We are playing two sevens and it wasn't happening in the first half.
Really pleased with how good Balmain has looked since coming on. Breaking tackles and scrummaging well.
CJ Stander and Copeland have easily been Munster's best players. Murray looks like he's lacking confidence whilst Keatley looks more like a second string option. Someone with more ego I'd required by the looks of it.
Really pleased with how good Balmain has looked since coming on. Breaking tackles and scrummaging well.
CJ Stander and Copeland have easily been Munster's best players. Murray looks like he's lacking confidence whilst Keatley looks more like a second string option. Someone with more ego I'd required by the looks of it.
Last edited by formerly known as Sam on Sun 20 Dec 2015, 7:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
LeinsterFan4life wrote:Munster and Leinster are just a mess at the minute. I've never seen so many players off form at the same time.
Healy, Murray, Sexton, Zebo, Kearney... a lot of players who have been starting over the past few years not playing well.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
What days are these when the Munster pack is lazy and totally lacking any tactical nous at the breakdown.
Rory_Gallagher- Posts : 11324
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Keatley is such an average 10, no idea why Munster persist with him.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Hope Foley doesn't moan about the ref and look inwards a bit
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
nathan wrote:Hope Foley doesn't moan about the ref and look inwards a bit
Complain about what? The soft yellow he gave Tigers? The fact Saili didn't opt for the fend and drive to the corner rather than passing inside?
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Really feel sorry for the guy, he looks distraught
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Slater for England for me, a real leader.
Also anyone see Youngs hitting his darts at the back.
Also anyone see Youngs hitting his darts at the back.
Welly- Posts : 4264
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Youngs and Thacker hit their darts nicely. Scrum looked steady with Thacker as well.
Slater was my man of the match. If he's not in the England squad then Eddie Jones is a fool. He was everywhere tonight; lineout, carrying, tackling just a huge work rate.
Slater was my man of the match. If he's not in the England squad then Eddie Jones is a fool. He was everywhere tonight; lineout, carrying, tackling just a huge work rate.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Ask pooly! LolWelly wrote: Slater for England for me, a real leader.
Also anyone see Youngs hitting his darts at the back.
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Haha....missed most of the game unfortunately, I'd put money on Youngs not been clean though!
Thacker is a much better thrower but a wee pea and massively underpowered. I can see why you're after McGuigan(apart from the darts).
Thacker is a much better thrower but a wee pea and massively underpowered. I can see why you're after McGuigan(apart from the darts).
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
He's increasingly not that small. The scrum worked, the lineout worked and in the loose he's always good. I think he could force his way up the pecking order if he keeps working hard on his scrummaging and playing well. We like have multiple players with open side skills this season so why not the reserve hooker.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Just seen the replay of Goneva's try, huge mistake by Zebo giving the ball to Ben for him to take a quick tap. You never hand the ball over willingly to the opposition 9, especially one who made two game changing quick taps against you the week before.
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Had it not been a quick tap I think Slater would have been demanding a yellow as it was a cynical slap down in his own 22. Kick to the corner and turn the screw on a 14 man team. Youngs didn't give Garces chance.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
formerly known as Sam wrote:He's increasingly not that small. The scrum worked, the lineout worked and in the loose he's always good. I think he could force his way up the pecking order if he keeps working hard on his scrummaging and playing well. We like have multiple players with open side skills this season so why not the reserve hooker.
C'mon Sam, he's absolutley tiny. He's bulked up a bit but he's got such a small frame he can add very little to scrum. He's just not a natural front rower, especially in the modern era and it's a shame really as he has some good qualities.
Munsters scrum is nothing to get excited about currently, I think you could stick Shane Williams in at hooker for Tigers and they'd still be ok.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
The tigers scrum started to go backwards when Sagario the Uruguayan tighthead came on. Shame he came on at the 77th mark but he is there as a temporary cover only so i guess Munster aren't too keen in giving him game time and prefer developing John Ryan who is switching from the LH side.
VinceWLB- Posts : 3841
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Munster milked a penalty early doors through some clever footwork. Applied plenty of pressure when Barrow was serving his ten mins. It was a much improved set piece for them this week, line out as well, they weren't getting marched back 20 metres with a rolling maul this week.
Sgt he's less tiny then last season. His line outs were to the tail and we're caught. We know how good he is around the park if he can provide a solid scrum I see no issue now. Whether he moves to open side next season I don't know.
Sgt he's less tiny then last season. His line outs were to the tail and we're caught. We know how good he is around the park if he can provide a solid scrum I see no issue now. Whether he moves to open side next season I don't know.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).
Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.
Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.
yappysnap- Posts : 11993
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Less tiny isn't really an improvement in front row terms. I do think his basics are actually better than Youngs but his size will always hold him back.
I like him but his size will always be a hindrance in the front row.
I like him but his size will always be a hindrance in the front row.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Just turned this on 15mins ago but Ben Youngs is looking sharp. I've always wondered why he's more than often brought off as he's a big performer for the 80 when given a chance.
Benny was knackered when he was hauled off, and starting to make some mistakes.
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).
Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.
Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Stander, Copeland and Saili were superb for Munster but the rest of the side were a disgrace to the jersey - the Tigers were poor enough but shocking from Munster.
rodders- Moderator
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
LondonTiger wrote:yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).
Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.
Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.
And good for England.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
In your little world, yesSgt_Pooly wrote:LondonTiger wrote:yappysnap wrote:I thought Tom Youngs had another really strong game, really impressive (as he has been for the last few weeks).
Ben Youngs also had a good game although some of his passing to Burns was... Unsympathetic, to say the least.
Tom has been excellent for us this season and this game was a continuation of that. While he will still hope to put pressure on Hartley and George, i suspect we will see a lot of him at Leicester this season - which is good for us at least.
And good for England.
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
What little world is that? The one where people are not biased to all things Leicester related and their players can do no wrong?
Youngs is a disaster for England, the further away he is from the national squad the better.
Jones stated Youngs is not a good set piece hooker prior to taking over, hopefully that tells us enough on his opinion of him.
Youngs is a disaster for England, the further away he is from the national squad the better.
Jones stated Youngs is not a good set piece hooker prior to taking over, hopefully that tells us enough on his opinion of him.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Lol, yeah because that happens. I and other tigers fans will easily criticise players so don't use that argument as it's just lazy.
I'm talking about the world where you bang on about the same things all the time regardless of how well a player plays. You make your mind up and it can't be changed.
Jones said a lot of things before he became the coach and has since said he was being mischievous. So don't think that vindicates your viewpoint
I'm talking about the world where you bang on about the same things all the time regardless of how well a player plays. You make your mind up and it can't be changed.
Jones said a lot of things before he became the coach and has since said he was being mischievous. So don't think that vindicates your viewpoint
nathan- Posts : 11033
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Cockerill has stated to the media he believes Tom Youngs to be the best hooker in the AP "by a country mile". It is the season to big up your English players apparently. Mike Ford having said Auterac and Thomas were ready for international duty.
formerly known as Sam- Posts : 21333
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Well Diamond has been talking up about half a dozen players, and Deano believes he has several in consideration.
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
formerly known as Sam wrote:Cockerill has stated to the media he believes Tom Youngs to be the best hooker in the AP "by a country mile". It is the season to big up your English players apparently. Mike Ford having said Auterac and Thomas were ready for international duty.
That's an absurd thing to suggest, he obviously can't be serious.
The day Youngs has a good game for England I may change my mind, until then I stand by my opinion, he's a poor hooker.
Deano is equally out of his mind, no Falcons players are anywhere near an England jersey. Mark Wilson could be a Saxon but that's as good as it gets currently for us.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Tigers fans are the most ardent defenders of their players on this board by some distance for me. You often defend the indefensible which is honourable but then also makes some of you hard to take seriously at times.
I respect your unwavering admiration for all things Tigers, even if I don't agree with it. I imagine it's hard to accept being possibly the premier team in Europe to where you currently reside, as a Falcons fan I've never really felt those dizzying heights.
I respect your unwavering admiration for all things Tigers, even if I don't agree with it. I imagine it's hard to accept being possibly the premier team in Europe to where you currently reside, as a Falcons fan I've never really felt those dizzying heights.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Maybe you should try watching some rugby.
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
Sgt_Pooly wrote:Tigers fans are the most ardent defenders of their players on this board by some distance for me. You often defend the indefensible which is honourable but then also makes some of you hard to take seriously at times.
I respect your unwavering admiration for all things Tigers, even if I don't agree with it. I imagine it's hard to accept being possibly the premier team in Europe to where you currently reside, as a Falcons fan I've never really felt those dizzying heights.
Criticism is fine.
We get defensive when you say ridiculous things, which you tend to when you have taken against a player. To repeatedly state that Youngs has been a disaster is so over the top as to be ridiculous. no Leicester fan here thinks we are the best team in Europe, most of us feel we are still very much an average AP team. Does not stop you resorting to Beshocked style hyperbole though.
Of course now that you have also created a similar blind spot about anything thet Alex goode does, perhaps you can go and have a fight with our paranoid Sarrie now?
As it is youngs has been excellent for us this season. his throwing to the tail yesterday (something you will claim to have missed as according to you he is too incompetent to try it) was outstanding. I do not want him to play for England, I am happy for him to stay with us.
I just wish you would leave out the repeated snide remarks on a thread that was, until you stuck your oar in, about a match.
LondonTiger- Moderator
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
No need to get offensive, it's only opinions.
At least we can agree on something, we both do not want Tom Youngs anywhere near an England squad.
At least we can agree on something, we both do not want Tom Youngs anywhere near an England squad.
Sgt_Pooly- Posts : 36294
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
And keep yer hands off McGuigan!!
Geordie- Posts : 28896
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Re: Champions Cup Pool 4: Leicester Tigers v Munster, 20 December
GeordieFalcon wrote:And keep yer hands off McGuigan!!
Until he is an improvement on what we have, you can keep him.
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