AO 2015 - Day 7

First topic message reminder :

Order of Play - http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/schedule/schedule12.html

Live Scores - http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/scores/index.html

Day 7 Preview -http://www.ausopen.com/en_AU/news/articles/2016-01-23/day_7_preview_a_collision_course.html


(Hopefully the preview writer(s) will use some version of collide/collision/collusion - at some point tomorrow ).

Update: My front and back yard- Thanks Jonas!

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Such a pity Tomic isn't playing Federer.

Tonic didn't like Federer saying he'd found it hard to reach his potential. Always makes me laugh when people don't like Federers assessments when they not put harshly and are right. Remember Murray in 2008, then in 2 years everyone started saying the same thing as if it was novel.

Murray in 2008? Refresh my memory....

When he beat Fed in Dubai and Roger suggested he'd need to be more aggressive in rallies to really succeed. Murray was fine but loads of fans were in high dudgeon saying he was being sour.

Fast forward a while and it was received wisdom.

Dubai cc, when Murray beat him there, there were some post match words... I don't remember that well tbh, something about being less defensive.

In the end Murray went the Lendl route and got stronger and more consistent (much to lf's lament ofc).

Murray Tomic should be good, but I agree that I hope Murray clinics him as his attitude stinks as much as Nicks...

Im going for Raonic too, I like his new style and im in his corner this week.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Such a pity Tomic isn't playing Federer.

Tonic didn't like Federer saying he'd found it hard to reach his potential. Always makes me laugh when people don't like Federers assessments when they not put harshly and are right. Remember Murray in 2008, then in 2 years everyone started saying the same thing as if it was novel.

Murray in 2008? Refresh my memory....

When he beat Fed in Dubai and Roger suggested he'd need to be more aggressive in rallies to really succeed. Murray was fine but loads of fans were in high dudgeon saying he was being sour.

Fast forward a while and it was received wisdom.

Ah right I think I recall that. But again it depends on opinion. Posters here (not all Murray fans) would disagree with Federer then as they feel that in his early years was better than when he went more aggressive under Lendl (which is what Federer was advocating).

I don't think anyone wants a GOAT debate, not now Rafas at a crossroads and Federer has a worse H2H against TWO of his biggest rivals now, and a third player in the game who fans of the other two absolutely hate...


It would be hell, pure, pure hell... The problem is you have three guys and you cant prove beyond reasonable doubt that any are the best of their generation. One has the stats, but the other two can claim to have the overall measure of that one, and comparable numbers too. How entertaining they are is also useless, because its opinion, and being in the majority doesn't make you right.

Basically all theres left to do is shout at eachother. Which is why we hate it.

Anyways I still don't feel Murray is in the kind of form to win here. I could quite easily see him lose to Stan in the semis if he does not meet aggression with aggression but first Andy has to reach the semis.

Tell Socal that

My road for Murray has Raonic in the semis slot, crazy perhaps but im Canadian this week.

Also Socal isn't here, stupid Socal having a life!

Can you be sure of that

Of Raonic? Not at all but im on a punt!

temporary21 wrote:Of Raonic? Not at all but im on a punt!

It isn't out of the question. Stan's problem is he has yet to be tested in the tournament so he will need to be on his toes whilst Raonic will need to hold his own in rallies better than he has to date.

Wrong thread.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

temporary21 wrote:Of Raonic? Not at all but im on a punt!

It isn't out of the question. Stan's problem is he has yet to be tested in the tournament so he will need to be on his toes whilst Raonic will need to hold his own in rallies better than he has to date.

Below the top 8 there isn't many tests to be had so thats not a surprise.

Im sure he would prefer to fly through the rounds than losing a set to Sousa

temporary21 wrote:I don't think anyone wants a GOAT debate, not now Rafas at a crossroads and Federer has a worse H2H against TWO of his biggest rivals now, and a third player in the game who fans of the other two absolutely hate...


It would be hell, pure, pure hell... The problem is you have three guys and you cant prove beyond reasonable doubt that any are the best of their generation. One has the stats, but the other two can claim to have the overall measure of that one, and comparable numbers too. How entertaining they are is also useless, because its opinion, and being in the majority doesn't make you right.

Basically all theres left to do is shout at eachother. Which is why we hate it.

Facts need correcting. Federer is level with Djokovic and has been holding that position despite advancing years.

But behind in slams, hence the overall measure because they count apparently... and now you see the problem...

Who brought the expression GOAT onto this thread?

temporary21 wrote:But behind in slams, hence the overall measure because they count apparently... and now you see the problem...

With your facts, yes, there a problem.

You did. Hence why I put an underline on it. But Moving on...

temporary21 wrote:You did. Hence why I put an underline on it. But Moving on...

Nope, Haddie did it.

If you're going to comment it'd be better if you read the posts.

bogbrush wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

bogbrush wrote:Such a pity Tomic isn't playing Federer.

Tonic didn't like Federer saying he'd found it hard to reach his potential. Always makes me laugh when people don't like Federers assessments when they not put harshly and are right. Remember Murray in 2008, then in 2 years everyone started saying the same thing as if it was novel.

Murray in 2008? Refresh my memory....

When he beat Fed in Dubai and Roger suggested he'd need to be more aggressive in rallies to really succeed. Murray was fine but loads of fans were in high dudgeon saying he was being sour.

Fast forward a while and it was received wisdom.

But you shouldn't be so critical about a peer. I think it's wrong of a player to criticise another, no matter how valid. It's a side of Federer I've always disliked. It's as though the normal player etiquette doesn't apply to him, for this

I think if you just do it as bald as that I'd agree, but if I recall correctly he did it very constructively with Murray in response to a direct question about what impact Murrays win had in assessing who was where at the top of the game.

He could always say nothing, or give some pat answer, I suppose. Is that what we want?

Tomic really is a tool though. I mean he is going into a match against Murray tomorrow musing in the media about who Murray likes and doesn't like playing and how he can beat him. Seems a sure-fire way of firing somebody up to me but there you go.

bogbrush wrote:

temporary21 wrote:You did. Hence why I put an underline on it. But Moving on...

Nope, Haddie did it.

If you're going to comment it'd be better if you read the posts.

"Oh please sir it wasn't me it was Haddie" !!!

I suppose Im gonna be kept in after school now snitch  

It's all cool by me Haddie but when the moderator makes something of it I have to point out facts

CaledonianCraig wrote:Tomic really is a tool though. I mean he is going into a match against Murray tomorrow musing in the media about who Murray likes and doesn't like playing and how he can beat him. Seems a sure-fire way of firing somebody up to me but there you go.

He needs to do something to distract himself because Murray is going to make him look a fool tomorrow.

bogbrush wrote:It's all cool by me Haddie but when the moderator makes something of it I have to point out facts

For once (now don't get excited) I agree

To be frank it was both of you as usual. So back on track

I expect the Federer v Berdych match to be a 5-setter. Djokovic and Berdych have gotten their fill.

Murray and Wawrinka need one too. Ferrer the terrier may be able to beat Isner in 5.

I do think it's a delicate area but I'm not altogether against 'fellow pro' criticism if it represents an honest response to pushy media questions. Professional 'etiquette' is a good thing in principle, but it means we do so often end up with bland pussyfoot stuff rather than interesting, real opinion or useful insights.

Where the Federer comment about Murray (as referenced by bogbrush) is concerned : I guess the Murray camp (along with Murray supporters generally) had a right to feel somewhat aggrieved because he was already an established player at the time, with wins over Fed already under his belt. Plus, Murray would push on from Dubai to finish 2008 with a couple of Masters titles and a top five ranking.

Totally different situation re Tomic : he has undoubtedly flattered to deceive whilst looking some way short of top ten material - so far (if goes on to make it at some future point, then good for him ..... the rankings don't lie)

Tomic was obviously rattled - understandably perhaps. But instead of a discretion-better-than-valour approach, he must have desperately wondered just what sort of material he could find to take a retaliatory swipe at a guy whose overall tennis CV is in another galaxy (and against whom his own record is 1-11 in sets played). And the best he could come up with was to announce that Federer's current level is well below that of the World No. 1. Factually correct, sure ; although also conveniently forgetting that Federer is beyond conventional retirement age, and yet still the only guy who has pushed Djoko with any regularity during the last couple of seasons.

Tomic is a hothead of course. But even so, I genuinely would like him to challenge the big names ..... I mean ... oh how we need some changes & new Slam winners. Same names in top five as eight years ago. But in the meantime, Tomic really does need to engage brain before speaking. Did it not occur to him at all that a churlish attempt to discredit Federer in the media needs to come from at least a pro with a record of (even vaguely) impressive achievement if it is to have ANY credibility .....?

I guess Tomic has nobody to offer advice. Or at least not the sort of advice he needs.

That's brave lf. I have fed winning in 4 at worst

temporary21 wrote:To be frank it was both of you as usual. So back on track

Temp I say this in the best possible humour  but I think BB and I have more trouble with you thn we do with each other these days

I honestly don't remember Andy getting the hump. Murray has always been open to input and concentrated on getting better.

Regarding Tomic, I can imagine this particular truth cutting deep. So, what does he do? Act like a guy whose brain is focused on improvement, or react like the kid who has squandered his potential? Ohhhh errr...........

I don't see Tomic having the game to trouble anyone trying to get to the top. Hell, he'll do well to make top 10 at this rate.

Haddie-nuff wrote:

temporary21 wrote:To be frank it was both of you as usual. So back on track

Temp I say this in the best possible humour  but I think BB and I have more trouble with you thn we do with each other these days

This is the dictionary definition of "unholy alliance"

About time to be frank

bogbrush wrote:

Haddie-nuff wrote:

temporary21 wrote:To be frank it was both of you as usual. So back on track

Temp I say this in the best possible humour  but I think BB and I have more trouble with you thn we do with each other these days

This is the dictionary definition of "unholy alliance"

Certainly would not  associate the word holy, un or otherwise, with you but heh  im learning

Haddie-nuff wrote:

temporary21 wrote:To be frank it was both of you as usual. So back on track

Temp I say this in the best possible humour  but I think BB and I have more trouble with you thn we do with each other these days

Now, now,... no one is going to mess with moderators! United we stand! Leave T2 alone, otherwise I will come after you and your unholy alliance with a vengeance .  (cannot fit anymore emojis).

Lf. I've sorely missed you.

bogbrush wrote:I honestly don't remember Andy getting the hump. Murray has always been open to input and concentrated on getting better.

Regarding Tomic, I can imagine this particular truth cutting deep. So, what does he do? Act like a guy whose brain is focused on improvement, or react like the kid who has squandered his potential? Ohhhh errr...........

I don't see Tomic having the game to trouble anyone trying to get to the top. Hell, he'll do well to make top 10 at this rate.

I think, from memory, the problem with the Murray comment was that it wasn't very reflective of the match he was commenting on. Murray dominated most of it, particularly behind his first serve (in hindsight, we all know Fed wasn't at his best at that time). It was a fantastic display at a time when he had been struggling a little after the wrist problem. It therefore came across as a bit churlish and I doubt Fed would have phrased it that way if he had won.

The Tomic one is perhaps one Fed should have been able to side-step. I don't think I'd be that impressed if I was Tomic who, in fairness, does seem to have knuckled down somewhat over the last few months. Agree it's a childish response but he isn't the brightest guy!

Tomics reaction is just that of lazy sh!t. 

No desire to want to prove or attempt to prove Federer wrong by doing it on court.

Tomic needs to learn where he is on the food chain. Him attempting to mock Federer is like a mouse trying to mock a python.

It's ok, a Croatian/Bosnian, trying to be friendly and with a Serbian/Croatian (Djoko).

Its call the "Ausländer" syndrome, from german for alien, emigrant syndrome, stick with same mentality.

As elder statesman Rod Laver watches on from his very own Arena, he must wonder about the future of Australian tennis. And no doubt has done for quite some time, I guess.

It's something of an irony that earlier generations of true Aussie legends - most notably Laver himself, Rosewall, Newcombe - were not only role models for general behaviour, modesty & courtesy, but also very high achievers. Rafter was a good guy too.

Contrast that with the likes of Tomic and Kyrgios who are not slow to talk big when the mood takes them, but without the record to back it up. And even before they arrived on the scene, let's not forget - amidst the tributes marking his retirement - that Hewitt too could frequently act like a tiresome brat in the early days. He got away with it to some extent because of his youthful Number 1 status & Slam wins  -  but that was all fairly short-lived, and of course he spent many more years away from the very biggest stages than on them.

AFAIK, Cash didn't mouth off during his playing days. But oh man, has he since made up for it by talking incessant claptrap as a 'pundit' Plus, he must surely have milked that Wimbledon title more than any other one-Slam wonder in tennis history.

No surprise that a lot of Aussies have never really warmed to the likes of Cash, Hewitt, Kyrgios and Tomic because they look back fondly on their legends of yesteryear.

I wouldn't have a problem with players talking the big talk if they can then back it up. What's funny with the Tomic response is, granted Roger isn't near Djokovic in level, but he is a hell of a lot closer than Tomic is! Tomic's response clearly says to me he is content in lower quarter not achieving anything.

He is hiding behind Novaks success because he can't do it himself. Furthest he will ever get in slams is the QF, no more than that.

In fairness, Tomic has gone from 66 to 17 over the last 12 months. Is Fed's comment that there's a long way to go until he gets to the top 10 somewhat unfair? Surely the target for a guy ranked 17 should be to make the top 10? It's not like Tomic has said he should immediately leap to number 1.

Wouldn't be surprised to see Tomic taking Murray out tomorrow. Playing in front of a home crowd, motivation to prove himself after Federer's comments, plus Murray must have been taken out of the tennis bubble a bit by Nigel Sears falling ill and will need to refocus.

I assume that some one asked Federer about Tomic's career for him to be making the comments he did. As for the comments regarding Murray in 2008 I know he was asked after a defeat so it probably was a bit of sour grapes. However I think most Murray supporters think he should be more aggressive at times. Would it have won him more titles ? I'm not that sure for Finals and Semi Finals but it would probably have made some early round matches easier. Saying that though he has had a pretty good career and achieved a lot playing the way he has.

Calder106 wrote:Wouldn't be surprised to see Tomic taking Murray out tomorrow. Playing in front of a home crowd, motivation to prove himself after Federer's comments, plus Murray must have been taken out of the tennis bubble a bit by Nigel Sears falling ill and will need to refocus.

I don't see Murray going beyond the semis but I'd be bitterly disappointed if he lost tomorrow. Tomic is not the sort of player Murray should be getting beaten by and home crowd shouldn't make a difference as Andy has beaten Kyrgios in Melbourne.

Odd negativity. I'm not usually massively positive about Andy but he looks in awesome form to me. I don't think Tomic will get too close and he's crushed Ferrer fairly handily since last year's improvements.

Stan is obviously tricky but I actually think Raonic will beat him. I'd make Andy favourite against either though.

BS I wouldn't call it negativity - just I have been through too many Murray disappointments to get my hopes up too high again. And if we are being honest he has yet to rediscover that extra mental steel he displayed in 2012/13.

Of course he is capable of beating Roanic and Stan but he must have good aggression levels - often Andy's failings.

I can't see Tomic taking Murray out. He'd need for Murray to have a Novak day like today!

I agree lk. They have played each other three times and Murray has won all three - last time being in the Davis Cup in September.