Wrestlemania 32 - An Underwhelming Experience waiting to happen..?

Having just posted on the RAW thread below, got me thinking about Mania 32. Just 10 weeks from what is set to be an event which shatters records will that still be the case and how best can they go about ensuring it does?

Clearly the WWE have been unfortunate with injuries and scheduling conflicts (Cena...Rollins....Orton & The Rock) but once again it could be argued that they have booked themselves into a corner by not establishing stars ready to step in. Whilst it has been a great 18 months in terms of bringing in new talent and showcasing them (WWE have done a much much better job than In the past) it still feels like they haven't trusted them enough or pulled the trigger on the right people at the right time. Even now I have my doubts and others likely do that people such as Owens...AJ and Ambrose would be getting the airtime they have if it wasn't for key injuries.

The obvious elephant in the room heading into Mania is Daniel Bryan...a man who is still the most over guy on the roster yet who is no closer to returning because of concussion issues/ being held back on purpose (take your pick which side you believe)...

All of this leads us to a card that thus far is shaping up as follow;

HHH vs Reigns
Brock vs Wyatt

That's likely the two main events...and both feel just a tad underwhelming. So my question is how do WWE go about ensuring this doesn't bomb in comparative terms to how big it was supposed to be? Do we see Undertaker wresting again? How will they utilise The Rock and do they need Cena or Orton or even both to return in time?

Or should they use this opportunity to showcase the talent they have; Ambrose...Owens...Zayn...AJ Styles..all more than capable of stealing the show.

My concern is that a whole bunch of them are shoved in one gimmick match and given little time to shine..

So what matches would you book and how would you best book this years Wrestlemania...

Sandow vs Lesnar

To make matters worse, rumours are that Triple H is pushing for it to be Lesnar vs Strowman, rather than Lesnar vs Wyatt.

I think this Wrestlemania card is looking very underwhelming so far.

Intercontinental Championship
Ladder match
Kevin Owens vs Dean Ambrose (c) vs Sami Zayn vs AJ Styles

Tag Team Championships
New Day (c) vs Usos

Undertaker vs Kane?!?!

Brock Lesnar vs Braun Strowman or Bray Wyatt

WWE World Heavyweight Championship
Triple H vs Roman Reigns

We'll see The Rock in some form, probably supporting Reigns or the Usos, but insurance says he can't wrestle. Might even have Ronda Rousey supporting Reigns, to add to the numerous attempts to make him popular.

I don't think Daniel Bryan is going to be wrestling, or have a significant role at all. If he is going to, a match with Undertaker would seem his most logical spot. Otherwise I genuinely worry that Undertaker is going to be facing Kane or even the Big Show. I'm not sure who else will get the match.

Steve Austin hasn't been involved for a while bar his podcast so I'm not sure if he's going to be involved at all. Imagine at the very least they'll want him in some kind of segment.

Chris Jericho is pretty much redundant at this stage, every time he returns he becomes less and less relevant. I couldn't care less where he is on the card.

It'll be interesting to see if they'll have John Cena make an appearance, you'd think if he was capable they will at least try and have him cut a promo of some sort.

We complain about wwe not pushing new stars... They give us Wyatt vs Lesnar and people moan about it

Hypocrits as always by the iwc , sorry but it really is

Bryan vs Brock would have led to Bryan getting permanently retired or worse, as much as I wanted owens vs Lesnar it's still a fresh match up and builds up a new star.

If however they go with strowman vs Lesnar then people can complain as he's so green

Gregers wrote:We complain about wwe not pushing new stars... They give us Wyatt vs Lesnar and people moan about it

Hypocrits as always by the iwc , sorry but it really is

Or maybe people just aren't that impressed with Wyatt? Which is fair enough I think, he's just not progressed at all for 2 years now. A lot of that has to do with his booking, but you can't separate the two. We've watched him get into feuds, which he never wins and have no long-term effect. There are a lot of people who are simply not interested in Wyatt/Lesnar.

That doesn't mean that they're not interested in Lesnar versus other new stars at all.

I'll agree Wyatts booking has been atrocious but he is one big win away from being a top level heel. Winning the rumble would have been that, as would beating cena or taker.

I for one hope he beats lesnar and gets rocketed because of it.

Who would you have had face lesnar then (who isn't injured so no Bryan or Cesaro). Other than Wyatt you have owens and that's your options really unless you turn brock heel

I really don't get this whole 'not pushing new Stars' shtick.

In the past year the PPV main events have been:

WM: Reigns v Lesnar (v Rollins)
Extreme Rules: Rollins v Orton
Payback: Rollins v Reigns v Ambrose v Orton
Elimination Chamber: Rollins v Ambrose
MITB: Rollins v Ambrose
Battleground: Rollins v Lesnar
Summerslam: Lesnar v Taker
Night of Champions: Rollins v Sting
Hell in a Cell: Lesnar v Taker
Survivor Series: Reigns v Ambrose
TLC: Reigns v Sheamus
Rumble: Reigns going in as champ, Ambrose last man to be eliminated, HHH winner
Fast Lane: Reigns v Ambrose v Lesnar

So in the past year the three ex Shield members have appeared in more main events than any other star:

Rollins 7
Reigns 6
Ambrose 6
Lesnar 5
Orton 2
Taker 2
Sting 1
Sheamus 1
HHH 1

Whilst Cena has had gardening leave at times he's still been around for a large portion of the year and was instead utilised in the US title scene.
The Shield trio have had varying degrees of success due to their pushes, Rollins showed he wasn't just a spot monkey and excelled as the main heel, Reigns has not just been pushed but rammed into the main event despite the IWC backlash and Ambrose has become the often fall guy but the people's preference.

I would wager 100 Australian Dollaridoos that if everything (including booking, writing and scripts) and just traded Ambrose for Reigns so they were in each others places then the crowd would be eating it up and not spitting it out.

The WWE know Ambrose is hot as hell with Lice audiances, thats why they continue to tease him with all those nearly moments, to toy with the crowds emotions, they could easily push him and it'd make it a far more intriguing story just down to raw fan emotion.

Certain fan emotion. And I'm not sure giving in to those fans is the right move. For my money Ambrose needs this IC title run to be good to show he deserves it, cos I really think he's been found wanting.

Reading the RAW spoilers, is it official that The Rock can't take part because of insurance? I was just wondering if they were going to have it as Rock and Uso's v New Day as it seemed to be teased? Possibly (WWE logic) for titles?

As I have said in 6CW chat, there is nothing really that entices casual fans like me to buy the PPV. Years gone by it would have been on the weight of the Streak match. It is rather like Boxing, whereby I don't class myself as a major fan (or even an average one) but if Brook v Khan or Fury v Joshua ever happened, I would probably buy the PPV.

I keep seeing that injuries have scuppered E's plans. So what was the likely main event and big matches then, if all were fit?

I think injuries have removed people from the card that would have been there, but not necessarily changed the big matches of the card. John Cena is the biggest absence and even that's not set in stone. There was a chance it could have been Reigns vs Cena, but more likely Cena was going to be against Undertaker and may very well still be.

Daniel Bryan is out but he wasn't going to be near the main event anyway, there's a possibility they'd have gone with Bryan vs Lesnar, but more likely Bryan would be thrown in with Owens and Ambrose and possibly Styles (although I think had Bryan not been injured, Styles may not have been signed).

It's not official that The Rock can't wrestle, but it's almost definitely true. If he was going to be in a match, it certainly wouldn't be that one, he'd be involved in a much bigger match for sure, possibly The Undertaker or against Brock. I think what's likely is he'll be in segments and probably get involved in the Reigns/Triple H match.

I got the impression that maybe it would be USO w Rock v New Day

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised if he's involved in that match too, but there's still a few months between now and Wrestlemania and I'm not sure that just because he was involved with them on Raw that means he will also be doing anything with them at Wrestlemania. He's interacted with Rusev twice now on Raw, but I don't expect that is going to be going anywhere.

I cant help but laugh that its an "Underwhelming experience waiting to happen" for you Owen. Everything is. You expect nothing and then claim to be underwhelmed.

Bray Wyatt just isnt good. I hope its 4 v 1 vs Lesnar.

I wasn't claiming that I am necessarily underwhelmed it was a question for the rest of the board to answer Dolph; since it's a forum and questions are usually what gets discussions happening...

I am actually optimistic that in terms of a wrestling event it could go down as one of the best; I have merely raised concerns as to how they could potentially book the event into one which promises a lot and delivers a little....and for me the two main events are the ones which could do that.

Will remark on other comments from other people too but haven't the time to go back and read through all responses yet. Seems to have created a little debate anyhow so that's always good.

You know full well the point I'm making...

I'm with Hero on this. Seems to me that pushing two younger guys into the main event is not deemed to be enough star power. Put the legend names in and there's no effort to push the younger stars.

I like where they're seemingly going. If they can deliver something good with Ambrose, something good with Owens, a good womens story then theres enough pieces there. They'll hold off on Taker till they know what Cena's status will be, you'd imagine, but there's a good surrounding cast now. Kalisto will have a story, the League of Nations will be around, the tag division has interest. Then there's Styles too.

I think the problem is there is a real lack of star power and I'd rather they brought back the actual stars to rectify this than simply ignore the problem. The ideal situation would be if they put in a concentrated effort to create new stars, but they're actively working against this by refusing to listen to the crowd and repeatedly making the same mistakes.

I don't dislike Roman Reigns, but over the last few months I've gone from a fan to genuinely dreading his parts. He has gone totally backwards, they are booking him in a way that is only going to rile people up, his match quality is going down and he is far too much the focal point of the show.

I think WWE has got to admit that stars cannot be artificially made, just like they aren't entirely organic, WWE has to be better at judging the fans' reaction and then adjusting accordingly. That doesn't mean just picking up the flavour of the month, but when you see many guys get consistently good reactions with no effect on the booking it's mental that they'd think fans are going to be invested in the product.

Wrestlemania is going to suffer because the old stars aren't there and there simply isn't anybody to replace them and just throwing in people into those spots is not how you turn them into stars at all, it just makes the product seem weaker.

It's best seen when you watch older Royal Rumbles, even from as recent as 2010, there was a clear feeling of who the big stars of the program were and who weren't. When John Cena, Edge, Batista, Shawn Michaels, Triple H or Undertaker were wrestling or were in the Rumble that felt like a big deal. I'm not sure that this has been seen in a Royal Rumble now since then. The final four this year were Roman Reigns, Triple H, Dean Ambrose and Bray Wyatt. Triple H apart, that to me doesn't feel star-studded. There wasn't a sense that these were the big stars. It's crazy to me that at the moment John Cena is the only bonafide star wrestling full time on the roster.

The problem is WWE have spent years on 50/50 booking and not making anyone stand out as a star, and then when they finally pick someone and decide to push them they get a caning for shoving someone down the fans throats.

Samo wrote:The problem is WWE have spent years on 50/50 booking and not making anyone stand out as a star, and then when they finally pick someone and decide to push them they get a caning for shoving someone down the fans throats.

I agree with the first part and I kind of agree with the second part, had WWE pushed those that were already organically over, they wouldn't have met this problem. WWE's issue is that they don't book anybody like stars, then they've picked one guy they decide will be a star and have pushed him heavily against all logic. If your biggest star is getting booed out of the building, you're doing something wrong! I understand that sometimes wrestling fans can be fickle and can harm the product, but in this case it's pretty consistent unhappiness with the booking and to be honest at this stage I can't blame them. I felt like last year the fans were far too quick to get on Roman's back, but since then his booking has been ridiculous! Most recently he's been unbearable to watch, even for somebody who likes him and WWE has his presence across the entire show. His career, I fear, has been permanently tarnished. Unless WWE do go down a heel-turn route in the near future I feel like it's going to be hard for them to ever turn Reigns into a star, because he's been marked now.

There is no balance at all in WWE's booking, they either have it that nobody stands out or have it that one guy dominates the entire show. It's just not going to work like that. They should be able to constantly book 5-6 (at least!) wrestlers strongly at the same time and they simply don't. There's a real oversaturation problem in WWE right now and constantly refusing to showcase those that the fans want to see is not helping their case.

Funny, he was over all but a month ago.

Dolphin Ziggler wrote:Funny, he was over all but a month ago.

Yes and then WWE booked him in a totally ridiculous way which turned people away, including myself. You only get so many chances and for me WWE have blown every one they have had with Reigns. I'm not sure they understand at all what he is good at or what the crowd like about him or what actually works with him. Instead every time it seems like Reigns is recovering from their horrific booking, they take the cheers as a sign to go full steam ahead with their ridiculous plans.

I just think a decent part of it is the internet crowd just going against who is deemed to be WWEs golden boy. If Ambrose was in Reigns spot, he'd probably get booed too.

GSC wrote:I just think a decent part of it is the internet crowd just going against who is deemed to be WWEs golden boy. If Ambrose was in Reigns spot, he'd probably get booed too.

I think Reigns was booed unfairly a year ago, but with his recent booking I don't know what WWE expect. He's been booked so ridiculously over the top, he does things that make him unlikeable and they've not managed to accurately identify what made him popular in the first place.

Crimey wrote:

GSC wrote:I just think a decent part of it is the internet crowd just going against who is deemed to be WWEs golden boy. If Ambrose was in Reigns spot, he'd probably get booed too.

I think Reigns was booed unfairly a year ago, but with his recent booking I don't know what WWE expect. He's been booked so ridiculously over the top, he does things that make him unlikeable and they've not managed to accurately identify what made him popular in the first place.

I disagree with GSC.  If you swapped Reigns out for Ambrose and put him through the exact same booking the fans would be eating it up.

Samo wrote:

Crimey wrote:

GSC wrote:I just think a decent part of it is the internet crowd just going against who is deemed to be WWEs golden boy. If Ambrose was in Reigns spot, he'd probably get booed too.

I think Reigns was booed unfairly a year ago, but with his recent booking I don't know what WWE expect. He's been booked so ridiculously over the top, he does things that make him unlikeable and they've not managed to accurately identify what made him popular in the first place.

I agree with GSC.  If you swapped Reigns out for Ambrose and put him through the exact same booking the fans would be eating it up.

Then you completely disagree with GSC.

Crimey wrote:

Samo wrote:

Crimey wrote:

GSC wrote:I just think a decent part of it is the internet crowd just going against who is deemed to be WWEs golden boy. If Ambrose was in Reigns spot, he'd probably get booed too.

I think Reigns was booed unfairly a year ago, but with his recent booking I don't know what WWE expect. He's been booked so ridiculously over the top, he does things that make him unlikeable and they've not managed to accurately identify what made him popular in the first place.

I agree with GSC.  If you swapped Reigns out for Ambrose and put him through the exact same booking the fans would be eating it up.

Then you completely disagree with GSC.

You're right, my mistake - edited.

If you swapped him right now, then I agree with you.

If he had had Reigns buildup, then they'd be booing him as WWEs "chosen one" imo

Shemoose is injured again, he posted a pic on twitter with his arm in a cast

I think the one big thing that bugs me with Reigns is that he kept the crowd entrance over Ambrose. Surely Ambrose being a bit left field and that he dresses in everyman style clothing would have been more suited to be coming from the people, whilst Reigns could have had a more powerful firework style entrance on the ramp?

Hero wrote:I think the one big thing that bugs me with Reigns is that he kept the crowd entrance over Ambrose. Surely Ambrose being a bit left field and that he dresses in everyman style clothing would have been more suited to be coming from the people, whilst Reigns could have had a more powerful firework style entrance on the ramp?

It's all a result of WWE's lack of faith in Roman getting over. The Shield shtick was already over, so Roman got to keep it. They seem to do a fair bit to try and make sure Roman isn't booed and disliked, so that they can push him, without ever stopping to think that maybe they shouldn't be pushing the guy that can't get over consistently.

It was painfully obvious that Reigns was eliminated before Ambrose, because they didn't want the crowd to pop when Triple H won. Why not cut out the middle man and back the one that is naturally over?

For me being a star comes from being naturally over AND getting backing, the problem is at the moment it feels like there can only be one or the other.

Rumours are now that Vince is pushing for Strowman vs Undertaker. So it'd be Lesnar vs Wyatt, Undertaker vs Strowman. However Undertaker seems likely to reject that plan and therefore the working plan is Undertaker/Kane/Big Show vs Harper/Rowan/Strowman.

Eurgh, I just don't see what the pull for Wrestlemania is this year.

I wonder how on earth they still think the supposed main event will not either go flat with the fans or booed out of the building?

I agree with GSC.

I also think its funny that people ignore HHH getting a pop when he won anyway even though Ambrose was there. Doesn't do to bring up a point about the crowd when it doesnt support the point

That's worse then! That the booking is so bad that even a favourite of the crowd in Dean Ambrose would be booed if booked the same way. That's a failure of the creative.

The booking has been atrocious, I don't know how they think what they have done was ever going to get Reigns, or anybody else over. It was ridiculously over the top.

The crowd though for the main event at WM will be either:

a) Behind HHH (heel)
b) Booing Reigns
c) Flat

Surely there's something wrong with how creative/management have gone about promoting Reigns that needs to be addressed? It did look like they'd turned a corner when he won the title at Raw but it's all been unraveled since. I like Reigns, sure not as much as Ambrose, but he doesn't deserve the scorn laid at him for what he does, the blame though can be laid at his booking.
Fans no longer want to be told who to cheer for, it has to feel natural to do so rather than forced, the bookers can still manipulate the fans into cheering for who they want them to cheer for but it has to be done in a subtle way that the fans feel they are in control of (when they're often not). Currently though with Reigns it's being done with a sledgehammer which just turns the fans even more against him.

You wouldn't get a mess like this on the build up to Bound For Glory.

Well you wouldn't know what the card was until you turned up for that.

My fave bit from the Manchester taping was Matt Hardy calling for the wrestler with three letters as his name to be fired (as he couldn't bear to say his name), and then the crowd proceeded to tell him '3' is not a letter.

im just looking forward to fastlane.

Reigns vs 2 people more over can only end well.

I actually think the Fast Lane main event is a better main event than the one we're getting.

Yes it is & probably the worse possible one to try and get Reigns further over in.

Adam D wrote:You wouldn't get a mess like this on the build up to Bound For Glory.

Oh Adam, how could you? Salt. Rub. Wounds.

Hero wrote:
Well you wouldn't know what the card was until you turned up for that.

My fave bit from the Manchester taping was Matt Hardy calling for the wrestler with three letters as his name to be fired (as he couldn't bear to say his name), and then the crowd proceeded to tell him '3' is not a letter.

Heheh. I think I'm looking forward to seeing that. TNA does have some good comedic value IMO. I thought they did his heel turn quite well...which I honestly wasn't expecting...then they went and spoiled it by having him be the (bog) standard egotistical buffoon. At least Ethan had some smarts and charisma to go along with his ego. Be interesting to see if / how he changes.

Wrestlemania looks like a disaster. 100k folk the target? I wonder if they thought it would be too easy so they are putting on a terrible card. Just after WM last year we had the idea of rock/rousey vs hhh/Steph or some sort of thing, only for rousey to lose and be stopped. Rocks insurance won't allow him. A few injuries later and the potential star struck card is destroyed. I for one was gutted that cena was a) injured and b) couldn't return at the rumble. Say what you want about him but him vs the undertaker would be a WM moment. Now we potentially have Undertaker vs Strowman...hmmm, potential contender for the giant gonzolla or whatever his name way. HHH vs Reigns, I'd rather see Regins vs Brock 2. I'd potentially let AJ go against Joe and see if they can steal the show. I would say AJ vs Y2J but he looks slow and out of shape. Yeah the card looks a shambles.

Its funny, but to me this WrestleMania is one of the most fascinating in years. There is going to be space on the card for people I want to see. The build up is more interesting than ever now because its less signposted and there is time to build stories.

I agree on that point, usually everyone moans when the card is full of part timers (albeit HHH is currently champ).

If I were to book it to try and rescue something I would have Ambrose win the Triple Threat and face HHH at Mania.

I'd have him drop the IC to Owens the next night on RAW after Authority interference - leading to Owens vs either AJ or Zayn for the IC title at Mania.

You could then have Reigns vs Lesnar II in a No.1 contenders match which Reigns could win and lead on to him turning heel against Ambrose - meanwhile the Authority have pretty much left TV.

Alternatively have Ambrose drop the IC title to whomever and keep Owens free for a match vs Undertaker.

I'd be tempted to have Ambrose win, but lose to HHH. Have a HHH picked MITB winner win it and immediately cash in as he celebrates with Hunter. That is good TV.

I agree with Samo, I'd have Ambrose win T Fast Lane. The way to save the night is to have it as a "change of the guard" night, so I'd also have him win at Mania.

I'd have Wyatt (with an assist) and Owens go over Lesnar and Taker respectively. I'd have Reigns and the Usos beat the Authority. You then put those 4 into the title picture after Mania.

I don't see how Ambrose is anywhere near worthy.