Revealed! The world's best paid rugby players whose salaries dwarf those even of Leigh Halfpenny and Jamie Roberts

First topic message reminder :

Christ on a bike, there's some money to be earned in France, and Japan by the looks of things. How are Wasps going to stay under the salary cap if they are going to pay Pocock £1.4 million+ a season ? 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/11300999/Rugbys-rich-list-the-highest-paid-players-in-the-world.html?frame=3576484


the IRFU are paying Sexton and Puitua 500k each a year, that's massive money. I reckon the salary caps in Europe will disappear in time, where is all this money coming from.

Also your not going to answer them Phil?

Munchkin wrote:

Indeed, we should scrap this horrible Union owned thing, and adapt the Regions wonderful model, or maybe the outstanding Sarries model that has them in debt of tens of millions.

You are deluded.

Yes, we should adapt private ownership across the league or you and the Scots should play in a gerrymandered competition and let the private boys play in their competitions.

I prefer the latter.

carpet baboon wrote:Also your not going to answer them Phil?

I did. Twice. LD's point was spot on. The privately owned NZ franchises are of no relevance to Welsh rugby.

Phil how do you feel about the duel contracts?

carpet baboon wrote:Phil how do you feel about the duel contracts?

They don't have a fighting change.

The Dual contracts are a total farce and fudge, designed solely because of the Barclays covenants.

Ok so as I understand it clubs should be completely autonomous from unions?,
You want to go down the French and English route? And welsh rugby would be better off leaving the pro 12 and joining some French or English league?

marty2086 wrote:

Ok Phil you're right, I'm wrong

Ospreys team this weekend:

Hassler, Englebrecht, Leonard, Fia, Underhill, Bernardo, Matavesi

7 of the 23.

You were saying?

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

Indeed, we should scrap this horrible Union owned thing, and adapt the Regions wonderful model, or maybe the outstanding Sarries model that has them in debt of tens of millions.

You are deluded.

Yes, we should adapt private ownership across the league or you and the Scots should play in a gerrymandered competition and let the private boys play in their competitions.

I prefer the latter.

'Private boys'

For goodness sake Phil, if it wasn't for the WRU the Regions wouldn't exist, and if it wasn't for their money the Regions wouldn't survive. Independent/private my @rse.

carpet baboon wrote:Ok so as I understand it clubs should be completely autonomous from unions?,
You want to go down the French and English route? And welsh rugby would be better off leaving the pro 12 and joining  some French or English league?

Welsh rugby would be immeasurably better playing in the English system.

Munchkin wrote:

For goodness sake Phil, if it wasn't for the WRU the Regions wouldn't exist, and if it wasn't for their money the Regions wouldn't survive. Independent/private my @rse.

Sorry, but how do you arrive at that conclusion?

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Ok so as I understand it clubs should be completely autonomous from unions?,
You want to go down the French and English route? And welsh rugby would be better off leaving the pro 12 and joining  some French or English league?

Welsh rugby would be immeasurably better playing in the English system.

Ok cool. Well I hope you get your wish. The English first division will be a good test for your lads, you may make the play offs

carpet baboon wrote:
Ok cool. Well I hope you get your wish. The English first division will be a good test for your lads, you may make the play offs

Cheers. Ealing Trailfinders will be a real challenge.

On a serious note, how exactly would it improve welsh club rugby? Hard facts if you can, to help this dumbo understand

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

For goodness sake Phil, if it wasn't for the WRU the Regions wouldn't exist, and if it wasn't for their money the Regions wouldn't survive. Independent/private my @rse.

Sorry, but how do you arrive at that conclusion?

Try using your noggin. It was the WRU that invented the Regions, and it is WRU money that the Regions depend on (having to rely on a loan from WRU recently just to survive). Not forgetting the fact that without the WRU, the Regions wouldn't have a competition to play in.

carpet baboon wrote:On a serious note, how exactly would it improve welsh club rugby? Hard facts if you can, to help this dumbo understand

We are logistically, financially and legally linked to England. I have Worcester, Gloucester, Bath, Bristol, Exeter, London Irish and Harlequins all within 150 minute drive. It's obvious that we would see improved TV deals and improved supporter experience by playing meaningful teams (with travelling support) that the public will engage with. PrO'12 rugby is sterile, unimportant and a feeder nonsense for the Union's international teams.

Munchkin wrote:
Try using your noggin. It was the WRU that invented the Regions, and it is WRU money that the Regions depend on (having to rely on a loan from WRU recently just to survive). Not forgetting the fact that without the WRU, the Regions wouldn't have a competition to play in.

No, mate. You're confused.

The WRU did not 'invent' the Regions. The clubs chose the 5 team solution.

The loan was because the WRU withheld the ERC payments and Lewis tried to shut down PRW. He failed. He tried to force PRW to play in the ERC, he failed.

The days of that Union 'control' are gone, Munchkin. The Unions are not above the law of the land.

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:
Try using your noggin. It was the WRU that invented the Regions, and it is WRU money that the Regions depend on (having to rely on a loan from WRU recently just to survive). Not forgetting the fact that without the WRU, the Regions wouldn't have a competition to play in.

No, mate. You're confused.

The WRU did not 'invent' the Regions. The clubs chose the 5 team solution.

The loan was because the WRU withheld the ERC payments and Lewis tried to shut down PRW. He failed. He tried to force PRW to play in the ERC, he failed.

The days of that Union 'control' are gone, Munchkin. The Unions are not above the law of the land.

You're being dishonest, or perhaps it is you that is confused. The idea of the Regions originated with Graham Henry, and a couple of years later Moffett turned the idea into a reality by presenting proposals to the clubs. The clubs disagreed with the specifics of the original proposals, with both sides coming to an agreement once changes were made.

Personally I think the whole thing was badly handled by both sides, and there probably is no real resolution to the difficulties Regional rugby in Wales have, as a result, but it is what it is.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:On a serious note, how exactly would it improve welsh club rugby? Hard facts if you can, to help this dumbo understand

We are logistically, financially and legally linked to England. I have Worcester, Gloucester, Bath, Bristol, Exeter, London Irish and Harlequins all within 150 minute drive. It's obvious that we would see improved TV deals and improved supporter experience by playing meaningful teams (with travelling support) that the public will engage with. PrO'12 rugby is sterile, unimportant and a feeder nonsense for the Union's international teams.

Facts Phil. I asked for facts. the distance is a fact.
The rest is your opinion.
Please support these opinions with facts or they stay just opinions

Munchkin wrote:

You're being dishonest, or perhaps it is you that is confused. The idea of the Regions originated with Graham Henry, and a couple of years later Moffett turned the idea into a reality by presenting proposals to the clubs. The clubs disagreed with the specifics of the original proposals, with both sides coming to an agreement once changes were made.

Personally I think the whole thing was badly handled by both sides, and there probably is no real resolution to the difficulties Regional rugby in Wales have, as a result, but it is what it is.

The changes that were made were the ones the clubs wanted. The clubs got their way.

Your second paragraph is spot on.

carpet baboon wrote:

Facts Phil. I asked for facts.  the distance is a fact.
The rest is your opinion.
Please support these opinions with facts or they stay just opinions

I think it's pretty obvious that there will be more away supporters for games.

I think it's pretty obvious that the broadcast contract will be greater than the PrO'12 generates for the four Welsh teams, who don't even get to keep all of the BBC Wales payments.

Thanks.

PhilBB wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

You're being dishonest, or perhaps it is you that is confused. The idea of the Regions originated with Graham Henry, and a couple of years later Moffett turned the idea into a reality by presenting proposals to the clubs. The clubs disagreed with the specifics of the original proposals, with both sides coming to an agreement once changes were made.

Personally I think the whole thing was badly handled by both sides, and there probably is no real resolution to the difficulties Regional rugby in Wales have, as a result, but it is what it is.

The changes that were made were the ones the clubs wanted. The clubs got their way.

Your second paragraph is spot on.

So it's the clubs fault for the flawed model?

As you can see, the Regions are the birth child of the WRU, not the clubs. The origins of the Regions are firmly placed with WRU, regardless of the clubs input into how those Regions would be shaped.

PhilBB wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

Ok Phil you're right, I'm wrong

Ospreys team this weekend:

Hassler, Englebrecht, Leonard, Fia, Underhill, Bernardo, Matavesi

7 of the 23.

You were saying?

Yes 7, maybe you want to go back and reread the quote. That leaves 17 in the squad as Welsh Qualified, just like I posted and given that Underhill and Bernardo are not capped they fall under the residency rules

Balls back in your court Sport

That's still your opinion Phil. Not one fact. Opinion.
And would the English leauges want you?
Is the 150mins round trip or one way?
Who would administer it?
Do you really think the PRL would want to share there money?

carpet baboon wrote:Facts Phil. I asked for facts. the distance is a fact.
The rest is your opinion.
Please support these opinions with facts or they stay just opinions

cb, I can tell you that the English clubs have a long and deep history with the Welsh clubs, I am old enough to remember the old merit tables, and the cross border matches were massively attended by fans both sides of the border. I remember I always went down to Cardiff to watch the Cardiff V Gloucester games on Boxing Day.

I know this is not much, but take a look at the winners:-

http://rugbyology.blogspot.com/2014/10/merit-table-era-in-anglo-welsh-rugby.html

Munchkin wrote:

So it's the clubs fault for the flawed model?

As you can see, the Regions are the birth child of the WRU, not the clubs. The origins of the Regions are firmly placed with WRU, regardless of the clubs input into how those Regions would be shaped.

Not quite right. The clubs went to the Union well before 2003 to make changes. The 'newcos' were very different from Cobner's ideas of regions, especially in the key area of ownership and player contracting.

The fault of the flawed model lies in its fudge.

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Facts Phil. I asked for facts. the distance is a fact.
The rest is your opinion.
Please support these opinions with facts or they stay just opinions

cb, I can tell you that the English clubs have a long and deep history with the Welsh clubs, I am old enough to remember the old merit tables, and the cross border matches were massively attended by fans both sides of the border. I remember I always went down to Cardiff to watch the Cardiff V Gloucester games on Boxing Day.

I know this is not much, but take a look at the winners:-

http://rugbyology.blogspot.com/2014/10/merit-table-era-in-anglo-welsh-rugby.html

Thank you LD

marty2086 wrote:

Yes 7, maybe you want to go back and reread the quote. That leaves 17 in the squad as Welsh Qualified, just like I posted and given that Underhill and Bernardo are not capped they fall under the residency rules

Balls back in your court Sport

7+17 = 24

How many in a match day 23?

Here is another one, it talks of Pontypool having 15,000 fans there for a midweek game:-

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/rugbyunion/club/3020912/Mary-Celeste-stirs-again.html

carpet baboon wrote:That's still your opinion Phil. Not one fact. Opinion.
And would the English leauges want you?
Is the 150mins round trip or one way?
Who would administer it?
Do you really think the PRL would want to share there money?

HoT suggests yes
One way
PRL & PRW
If their total ends up getting larger.

marty2086 wrote:
Yes 7, maybe you want to go back and reread the quote. That leaves 17 in the squad as Welsh Qualified, just like I posted and given that Underhill and Bernardo are not capped they fall under the residency rules

Balls back in your court Sport

http://www.ospreysrugby.com/News/Article/44061

This is fun.

7+17 = ?

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:That's still your opinion Phil. Not one fact. Opinion.
And would the English leauges want you?
Is the 150mins round trip or one way?
Who would administer it?
Do you really think the PRL would want to share there money?

HoT suggests yes
One way
PRL & PRW
If their total ends up getting larger.

What teams would you see competing in this joint league? The regions or revert back to the clubs?

LordDowlais wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Facts Phil. I asked for facts. the distance is a fact.
The rest is your opinion.
Please support these opinions with facts or they stay just opinions

cb, I can tell you that the English clubs have a long and deep history with the Welsh clubs, I am old enough to remember the old merit tables, and the cross border matches were massively attended by fans both sides of the border. I remember I always went down to Cardiff to watch the Cardiff V Gloucester games on Boxing Day.

I know this is not much, but take a look at the winners:-

http://rugbyology.blogspot.com/2014/10/merit-table-era-in-anglo-welsh-rugby.html

A history with Welsh clubs, but not with the Regions. Things have changed considerably since the beginning of the professional era, and there's no going back.

carpet baboon wrote:

What teams would you see competing in this joint league? The regions or revert back to the clubs?

They are just pro teams. Llanelli and Cardiff haven't changed. The Os will be the Os and whatever happens in Newport is anybody's guess.

And here are all the teams that were in the merit league:-

http://www.gloucesterrugbyheritage.org.uk/page/proposed_anglo-welsh_league

Munchkin wrote:

A history with Welsh clubs, but not with the Regions. Things have changed considerably since the beginning of the professional era, and there's no going back.

When we play in England, we're only known as Cardiff.

Cardiff Blues is like Sale Sharks. The 'Blues' is just a nickname.

Ditto Llanelli who just use their 140 year old nickname.

Munchkin wrote:A history with Welsh clubs, but not with the Regions. Things have changed considerably since the beginning of the professional era, and there's no going back.

Unfortunately you might be right, but it just goes to show, the interest is there from both parties.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:Phil explain to me why your so upset?

Thanks in advanced

I'm not upset. Thanks for the projection.

I'm enjoying educating Ulster supporters on the set up of their rugby.

Gee whiz, we heard you the first time! Talk about an ego trip. The "educating the masses" persona is rather humorous (albeit sad) but at the end of the day this is a rather irrelevant, anonymous internet forum. I don't mean to burst your exceedingly large bubble but it isn't all that heroic "winning" arguments on the internet. You can debate with someone without the blatant narcissism. It makes it harder for people to read past the attitude and acknowledge your posts otherwise.

You can call it "attacking the man" but as I have said before you are clearly a provocateur and this is exactly the sort of response you are looking for. Make a number of points and condescend your opponents; claim they "attack the man" and that they have no genuine points to make when they react to your condescension. It isn't a particular nice way of debating. Seems to work in politics, though.

PhilBB wrote:

carpet baboon wrote:

What teams would you see competing in this joint league? The regions or revert back to the clubs?

They are just pro teams. Llanelli and Cardiff haven't changed. The Os will be the Os and whatever happens in Newport is anybody's guess.

If we were to go for an Anglo/Welsh league, which I am not saying we should by the way, but if we did, I think we should scrap the regions and go back to the clubs.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:

Gee whiz, we heard you the first time! Talk about an ego trip. The "educating the masses" persona is rather humorous (albeit sad) but at the end of the day this is a rather irrelevant, anonymous internet forum. I don't mean to burst your exceedingly large bubble but it isn't all that heroic "winning" arguments on the internet. You can debate with someone without the blatant narcissism. It makes it harder for people to read past the attitude and acknowledge your posts otherwise.

You can call it "attacking the man" but as I have said before you are clearly a provocateur and this is exactly the sort of response you are looking for. Make a number of points and condescend your opponents; claim they "attack the man" and that they have no genuine points to make when they react to your condescension. It isn't a particular nice way of debating. Seems to work in politics, though.

Ah, I must work on my humour.

LordDowlais wrote:

If we were to go for an Anglo/Welsh league, which I am not saying we should by the way, but if we did, I think we should scrap the regions and go back to the clubs.

That would only affect the Ospreys and there is no need to change them.

Oh, one of those "ironic humour" types. Wonderful.

Rory_Gallagher wrote:Oh, one of those "ironic humour" types. Wonderful.

Almost. We're almost there.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:

If we were to go for an Anglo/Welsh league, which I am not saying we should by the way, but if we did, I think we should scrap the regions and go back to the clubs.

That would only affect the Ospreys and there is no need to change them.

Yes there is, as we cannot have both Swansea AND Ospreys, who would the fans support ? Like I said, Neath would have their own following as would Bridgend, we should just do away with the regions and go back to the clubs if we were to jump into bed with the English.

LordDowlais wrote:
Yes there is, as we cannot have both Swansea AND Ospreys, who would the fans support ? Like I said, Neath would have their own following as would Bridgend, we should just do away with the regions and go back to the clubs if we were to jump into bed with the English.

WTF?

Swansea would be playing Welsh league stuff. The English would have no interest in amateur Welsh teams.

Once they've ring fenced the AP, they'll finally progress to sealing it off in England, too.

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
Yes there is, as we cannot have both Swansea AND Ospreys, who would the fans support ? Like I said, Neath would have their own following as would Bridgend, we should just do away with the regions and go back to the clubs if we were to jump into bed with the English.

WTF?

Swansea would be playing Welsh league stuff. The English would have no interest in amateur Welsh teams.

Once they've ring fenced the AP, they'll finally progress to sealing it off in England, too.

I am talking about integrating ALL the Welsh clubs within the English setup, not just 4.

LordDowlais wrote:
I am talking about integrating ALL the Welsh clubs within the English setup, not just 4.

That will never happen, quite obviously

PhilBB wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:
I am talking about integrating ALL the Welsh clubs within the English setup, not just 4.

That will never happen, quite obviously

Yes I know, I am talking hypothetically, just like you are, as what you want will never happen either.

Some of this stuff really has gone quite far over the rainbow now.  The extent of the hypotheticals on what would happen to Welsh rugby in these scenarios are vast.  Some of this stuff is absolutely pie in the sky - if Welsh rugby wants to go without a union to fall back on and run the monumental risk of things not going to plan without said union, then its suicide.

I am just saying, that there is a long and respected history between Welsh and English clubs, why do you think there always used to be so much needle when the international sides played each other. 

Back in the day, these two nations used to love beating each other the most.


It's almost the same as what is starting to bubble over when Ireland and Wales play each other. It's because we go at it hammer and tongs at club level virtually every week as well. Then come to international time, it's volcanic.

I agree LD back in the day. But times they have changed. the PRL have no need or want to include the welsh teams no matter what they call themselves.
Phill hates the pro12 and by extension the irish. He wants a fantasy land where his club arerich and successfully. So he starts an argument about how it's terrible that the UK government gave money to a part of the UK to develop a brilliant sporting stadia to the betterment of the UK people, to try and show how hard done by he is, and sucked people into an argument.
And he did, congratulations, ibet his Kleenex took a mighty hit too. What's sad is he can make valid points he just chooses to argue them rather than debate them
And yes were all as bad as each other at times.
Spose what I'm saying is if Phil wants to start an injustices thread please do so. I doubt it though.