Abu DhabiGP/Fernando Collects £800 & can pass go Thread - Contains Quali & Race spoilers

[Fernando]

First topic message reminder :

Yas Marina wants for nothing in terms of facilities. If only the same could be said of its track.

Track data: Yas Marina

Lap length 5.554km (3.451 miles)
Grand prix distance 305.355km (189.739 miles)
Lap record (race) 1’40.279 (Sebastian Vettel, 2009)
Fastest lap (any session) 1’38.434 (Lewis Hamilton, 2011, qualifying two)
Tyre compounds See drivers’ choices
2015 Rate the Race 5.25 out of 10
2015 Driver of the Weekend Sergio Perez
Yas Marina track data in full

But the circuit which has the honour of holding this year’s title-deciding race leaves everything to be desired when it comes to challenging the world’s best drivers and cars.

It’s wide, smooth, flat and – aside from a pair of lengthy straights – slow. Whatever brief the track designer was given, showcasing F1 at its best was not it.

“It’s not the most thrilling of tracks,” says master of understatement Daniil Kvyat, “as many of the corners are very similar”. Other drivers have been similarly dismissive of its untaxing, stop-start nature.

The track has produced few riveting races since it first appeared on the calendar in 2009. The surprise outcome of the 2010 title-decider and Sebastian Vettel’s race through the field two years later stick in the mind. But last year’s forgettable finale was more typical of what we’ve come to expect from this venue.

Abu Dhabi’s stable climate means we can discount the possibility of surprising weather changes playing a role in Sunday’s championship finale. But Pirelli’s decision to bring its most aggressive tyre selection could offer the drivers new strategic options this year.

A lap of Yas Marina


From the start line the drivers arrive quickly at turn one. This is the first of many 90-degree corners but is quicker than the rest, typically taken in fourth gear. Accelerating out of the left-hander the drivers approach what passes for the most interesting section on the track – the flat-out sweep through turns two, three and four.
The pit lane entrance joins the track at this point and we have seen some near-misses as drivers blend in with traffic. Fernando Alonso took a punishing ride over the kerbs here in 2013.

As the drivers leave turn four at speed they are quickly upon the next sequence of corners: a slow chicane followed by a hairpin. “You go down the hill, braking into six – very tricky braking turning into six, then straight away into seven,” explains Romain Grosjean. “You need to be well positioned for the hairpin going down the back straight. It’s tricky to get the car to turn.”

Two long straights separated by the turn eight/nine chicane follow. “Again you need to be well positioned between the left and right-hand side corners,” says Grosjean. “Then it’s another straight line on to 11, 12 and 13. It’s a triple chicane and as soon as you exit that part you go flat out then brake for turn 14, which is a 90-degree left-hand side corner.”


Following the tricky curved approach to turn 17 the final sector of the lap involves a sequence of slow bends, most of which are right-angles. “As soon as you go out of 17 you have to brake again for 18,” says Grosjean. Two left-handers lead them beneath the Yas Viceroy hotel, with a “tricky exit” as the cars straighten up ahead of the final pair of bends.
“The second to last corner is good,” comments Grosjean. “It’s high speed in fourth or fifth gear.”

After that the run-off area at the final corner invites drivers to run wide. “The last corner is very tricky,” Grosjean explains. “It’s very wide on the entry phase with the pit lane on the right-hand side. It’s not easy to find a line.”

[CaledonianCraig]

Maybe we can try using the format that wasn't broken to begin with. Of course we'll have to trial a format where you do 2 aggregate laps, but you do the 2nd lap in reverse first.

Evidently, the powers that be don't want that.

To me it smacks of utter failure and disarray of those making the rules. They have banked on qualifying as a way to try to clip Mercedes wings in a bid to create excitement and they have failed big time but are too pig-headed to admit it.

[Fernando]

Do they really to stop Mercedes though? Whilst they have qualifying pace, Ferrari seem very close over a race now. So not sure it's worth it

[Guest]

Rosberg has won. Damage limitation race again for Lewis.

[Guest]

Two races, two poles for Hamilton, but two relatively poor race starts from Hamilton, two times Rosberg has got the better start and overtaken Hamilton.  In this race Hamilton got an okay start, Rosberg got a better start and got into the lead.  Bottas had the best start but then drove into a slower Hamilton.  I really think Rosberg has Hamilton's number this season.  But the season is long.

Ps the HAAS are doing very very well.

[Guest]

We're moving to a 2 lap aggregate system by sounds of things.



I quite like the Formula E qualifying - Groups of 5 then the top people contest the top 5 shootout

If that is going to be introduced to Formula 1, Formula 1 will have cut itself off from its own history. Past pole position records will no longer be compatible with the present pole positions. They would have to reset the records to zero and say goodbye to Senna, Prost, Schumacher etc - in terms of pole position records. That said the season has nearly doubled from 12 races in 1972 to 21 races in 2016.

[Jermaine2015]

Rosberg has won. Damage limitation race again for Lewis.

Hamilton not quiet as good as you make him out to be...

[Guest]

Nothing incorrect with that quote & haven't posted any comments hyping Hamilton, just a post about him achieving pole, in reply to Nore Staat, so not sure what your point is? In general terms, I don't really have to point out how good he is, he's a three time world champion & Nico isn't.

Is poor from Hamilton these starts, it's just a shame Rosberg is being gifted race wins, instead of the sport & the fans witnessing a great on track duel between the two. As far as a racing spectacle between these two, it's been woeful over the last three seasons. Either one has an issue or the team strategically pull them apart. Long way to go, you'd probably have to say that Hamilton enduring a difficult start is good for the sport, whereas if Hamilton had won both races, people would be turning off & already giving him the title.

[GSC]

I'm still giving him the title.

[dyrewolfe]

Well, second race ruined by Bottas bumping Hamilton at the first corner and Vettel's engine giving up on the formation lap. Maybe third time will be the charm.

Nico got the jump on Lewis for a second time...seems he's adjusted to the new starting system better. Again did all he needed to do to control the race from the front. Lewis did okay with his damage limitation drive, but I hope he spends some time between now and China practising his starts...it could cost him a 4th title otherwise.

Good drive by Kimi after a poor start...just didn't have the pace to really trouble Rosberg.

Another good drive by Ricciardo - best RB could have hoped for. Another brilliant drive by Grosjean - he really is making this a dream debut season for Haas so far. Long may it continue.

Verstappen continuing to show good form, but Williams have definitely gone backwards, sadly.

Congrats to Vandoorne for scoring McLaren's first point of the season on his debut, as well as out-qualifying Button. Definite signs of progress but they need to keep it up.


As to the shenanigans behind the scenes, its slowly starting to come to light, just how broken the sport's leadership is...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/35954781?postid=124199922#comment_124199922

Before the next race in China provides further insight into the state of play between Mercedes and Ferrari, F1 has to sort out what is rapidly becoming an embarrassing coq-up over its qualifying format.

When this season's new elimination system proved a failure in Australia, teams agreed to revert to the 2015 method, only for this to be torpedoed by FIA president Jean Todt, who did not give them that option to vote on.

After the elimination system failed again in Bahrain, the teams met with Todt and Ecclestone on race morning in an attempt to come up with a suitable alternative. And that's where it starts to get weird.

On Saturday evening, after long periods of time with an empty track, Mercedes F1 boss Toto Wolff said: "If somebody puts a block in the system to get us stuck then we should publicly crucify him in the paddock."

It was said in jest, but the central point was clear - it would be ridiculous not to go back now.

But that is exactly what happened.

The teams were again unanimous in their desire to go back to the 2015 knockout format.

But Ecclestone - who started all this off with a demand to change qualifying on the eve of the season - expressed his vociferous support for the new system, telling those in the meeting that he "loved" what he had seen on Saturday.

To say the teams were somewhat perplexed by this would be to understate their feelings in the extreme - there was a number of exasperated team bosses looking bemused in the paddock before the race and privately making their feelings clear, including to this writer.

Very few people understand the resistance Todt and Ecclestone are showing to reverting to the 2015 format, unless it is an attempt to save face and avoid what would after all be an embarrassing U-turn and admission of failure.

The result is that a compromise solution is now being championed by Todt - to have the three knockout sessions in the format of 2015, but tweak it by making qualifying positions dependent on a driver's two fastest laps rather than one.


Given that Ecclestone's original intention in changing qualifying was to find a way to mix up the grids, this is a somewhat perplexing solution, as statistically speaking by averaging out two laps the element of randomness is being reduced.

But one senior figure pointed out that it did increase chances of a mistake affecting a driver's position - because he now has two laps counting rather than one, a mistake on either will put him out of position.

Unfortunately, it turns out that the new proposal is yet another example of the ad hoc decision-making that got F1 into this position in the first place.

It was just an idea FIA F1 director Charlie Whiting proposed during the weekend in Bahrain after being asked to come up with some thoughts; it wasn't intended to be THE idea.

But Todt and Ecclestone loved it and now it is going forward for analysis by the teams, who are between a rock and a hard place.

They don't particularly want it - what they want is to go back to 2015 - but the choice with which they will be presented will be between this new idea and sticking with the failed elimination format.

So if they hang Todt and Ecclestone out to dry and veto they new proposal, they will inevitably be blamed for forcing on F1 a format that has proved wildly unpopular with everyone but Todt and Ecclestone.

After the race, Wolff described this situation as "a political mess" and "madness". It was a rare moment of sanity in the whole sorry process.

[GSC]

You have Jean Todt looking after his own interests, Bernie looking after his own interests, and the teams looking after their engine suppliers interests.

Any of the two can block one by teaming up. Notice nobody is looking after the interests of F1.

This is how we end with Poopie qualifying formats, Poopie double points gimmicks, Poopie tyres, Poopie design rules, Poopie tracks in countries I couldn't pick on a map and hiding the sport behind a pay wall.

[Guest]

How comes HAAS F1 are doing so well yet the mighty McLaren-Honda are no where to be seen? Is it because they are getting their engines from Ferrari? Presumably a lower spec version of the engines Ferrari supply to their own team. Presumably Red Bull could have had the same deal.

[Guest]

You have Jean Todt looking after his own interests, Bernie looking after his own interests, and the teams looking after their engine suppliers interests.

Any of the two can block one by teaming up. Notice nobody is looking after the interests of F1.

This is how we end with Poopie qualifying formats, Poopie double points gimmicks, Poopie tyres, Poopie design rules, Poopie tracks in countries I couldn't pick on a map and hiding the sport behind a pay wall.

Except it is the FIA - Ecclestone partnership that determines what options to give to the teams. They are not giving the option of reverting to the 2015 qualifying. This type of arrangement is similar to how the EU works with the unelected EC acting as the FIA-Ecclestone power group.

[GSC]

Todt is the FIA in this equation. They control 12/18 votes between them and can lock the teams out.

[Jermaine2015]

How comes HAAS F1 are doing so well yet the mighty McLaren-Honda are no where to be seen?  Is it because they are getting their engines from Ferrari?  Presumably a lower spec version of the engines Ferrari supply to their own team.  Presumably Red Bull could have had the same deal.

No Haas are receiving exactly the same engine as the works Ferrari team

[Jermaine2015]

Seems as though the Bottas hype bubble has well and truly burst. Of the hottest properties not in a leading car Grosjean, Hulkenberg and Verstappen are vastly better than dull as dishwater Bottas.

Sauber need to be bought out by Fiat as soon as possible and become the factory Alfa Romeo team. Get Verstappen and Hulkenberg to lead that team.

[dyrewolfe]

How comes HAAS F1 are doing so well yet the mighty McLaren-Honda are no where to be seen?  Is it because they are getting their engines from Ferrari?  Presumably a lower spec version of the engines Ferrari supply to their own team.  Presumably Red Bull could have had the same deal.

Simple, Ferrari supplied Haas with a number of components, including the drivetrain. They also have use of Ferrari's wind tunnel for aero testing.

Red Bull tried to get Ferrari engines, but got the same response Mercedes gave them...hence why they are using re-badged Renault units.

Also, I'd hardly say McLaren are nowhere to be seen. Vandoorne finished 10th to give them their first point of the season. Provided they can maintain a good level of development, they ought to at least score more points this season...which is a big improvement on last season.

No Haas are receiving exactly the same engine as the works Ferrari team

I was under the impression they were using last season's engine? Or is that the arrangement with some of the other teams they supply?

[Guest]

Haas are running the 2016 Ferrari spec engine. TR have the agreement to use the 2015 spec engine

[Guest]

Wow. Haasf1 then have got themselves a fantastic deal with Ferrari.  I suppose Ferrari don't see Haas as a threat this being their rookie season.  Ferrari gain if Haasf1 share with them the data from the new Ferrari engines - in effect Ferrari double their test hours for their engines using Haas.

ps:  Yes well done to Vandoorne what an amazing introduction to F1 he had.

[GSC]

Haas are effectively using the 2015 Ferrari chassis too. Gives Ferrari twice the test data and capacity, the rest of the teams threw up a stink about it last year.

[AlciG]

Haas are running the 2016 Ferrari spec engine. TR have the agreement to use the 2015 spec engine

Too bad TR weren't able to get the 2016 package

[CaledonianCraig]

Haas are effectively using the 2015 Ferrari chassis too. Gives Ferrari twice the test data and capacity, the rest of the teams threw up a stink about it last year.

It is refreshing to see a brand new team come in and hit the ground running like Haas have. However, my one worry about them establishing themselves in the sport is their almost total reliance on Ferrari for engine, wind tunnel, chassis etc etc. To me Haas will only benefit as long as they don't get too close to Ferrari on the track. If they do I can't see Ferrari continuing the partnership as it becomes detrimental to their title hopes. Therefore if Ferrari withdraw their support Haas will be in BIG trouble.

[Guest]

Haas are effectively using the 2015 Ferrari chassis too. Gives Ferrari twice the test data and capacity, the rest of the teams threw up a stink about it last year.

It is refreshing to see a brand new team come in and hit the ground running like Haas have. However, my one worry about them establishing themselves in the sport is their almost total reliance on Ferrari for engine, wind tunnel, chassis etc etc. To me Haas will only benefit as long as they don't get too close to Ferrari on the track. If they do I can't see Ferrari continuing the partnership as it becomes detrimental to their title hopes. Therefore if Ferrari withdraw their support Haas will be in BIG trouble.

Following GSC comment - this is benefiting Ferrari and it is a loophole.  Through Haas, a "new team", not only do Ferrari have twice the test data and capacity they have unlimited test data - because the new team doesn't have any development restrictions placed on it in terms of testing.  So unlimited wind tunnel and track tests in order to help to understand their "new car" and improve it.   Ferrari are desperate to be challenging for the championship again - they know they probably have the most "complete driver" in Vettel (as long as he remains motivated).

[Jermaine2015]

I'm guessing no one on here saw Gene Haas' interview regarding his relationship with Ferrari, after he announced he was joining F1? Haas stated he has very close relations with the Prancing Horse for nearly 20-25 years. Therefore there's little chance Ferrari will ever sever ties with Haas F1.

[CaledonianCraig]

I'm guessing no one on here saw Gene Haas' interview regarding his relationship with Ferrari, after he announced he was joining F1? Haas stated he has very close relations with the Prancing Horse for nearly 20-25 years. Therefore there's little chance Ferrari will ever sever ties with Haas F1.

Oh no i never saw the interview so never knew about those long ties. However, I do stand by my point in that if Haas becomes a stronger force in F1 and begins challenging for race wins against Ferrari and world titles then I could not see Ferrari continuing to be so helpful.

[GSC]

Effectively to do that Haas have to make up a years development on Ferrari, starting from scratch and with a lesser budget. Its fairly unlikely

[dyrewolfe]

I guess they'll cross that bridge when they come to it.

If Haas do become a real threat to Ferrari, it will be a sign they are ready to stand on their own and I could certainly see their working relationship being re-negotiated, so that Haas have to do more development using their own resources.

Gene may have worked with Ferrari for 20+ years, but so far he has not been in direct competition with them. Getting into F1 changes that...

[GSC]

I suspect they'll be as much competition to Ferrari as TR are to RB.

[Fernando]

New Qualifying been rejected by teams

[Guest]

The present qualifying system may be boring for some but the teams seem to have adjusted so that it is orderly and fair.  As long as the race conditions during each qualifying session doesn't dramatically improve then each team is doing their one or two qualifying laps then stopping.  It seems that Mercedes and Ferrari have got a memorandum of understanding going.  Other teams seem only to be looking at the lesser positions.  Not sure what has happened to the Williams?  They seem to have taken a step backward.  Red Bull seem to be in the same predicament as last year.

[Fernando]

FIA Announce we're going back to 2015 qualifying.

[dyrewolfe]

I suspect they'll be as much competition to Ferrari as TR are to RB.

RB and TR weren't a million miles apart last season. Kvyat and Ricciardo finished with 95 and 92 points (2 retirements each). Verstappen ended with 49, despite 4 retirements. Sainz only got 18 but had 7 retirements. Could well be even closer this season.


Not overly surprised they've gone back to last season's quali format, as the new one made for poor spectating / viewing. Looked really stupid having chequered flags being waved with no cars on track.

I still think a one-by-one elimination format could work, but it obviously needs some tweaking. Plus, you're going to have to keep the old format for Q3 if you want the pole shootout to continue right to the end of the session. Or maybe just have 4-6 eliminated in Q3 then have the rest continue to the end.

[GSC]

That's a pretty sizable gap.

[GSC]

5 place grid penalty for Hamilton for gearbox change

[Guest]

Basically, damage limitation for the third race in a row. Getting back to second should be achievable, given China's layout, but again the fans are denied a Mercedes duel.

[Guest]

By the end of the China race Hamilton has a good chance of being more than a race behind Rosberg on points. There must be a good chance of at least one of the Ferraris denying Hamilton a second place with Rosberg winning. The new racing aggression, commitment and focus of Rosberg that sort of fell into place towards the end of last season will be boosted by a rising confidence that might result in Rosberg pulling away and maintaining his points gap with Hamilton across the season.

[dyrewolfe]

Well Shanghai does have the longest straight of any circuit so, provided he doesn't have any other issues, I can see Hamilton getting back to 2nd, but as Nore said, by that time Rosberg will likely be out of reach.

Still way too early to be making any predictions about how the season will pan out though.

Still plenty of time for Rosberg to have some bad luck or make mistakes.

Think the picture will be much clearer after the British GP.

[CaledonianCraig]

At present I'd say Rosberg looks good for the title. Has he improved at all? I really don't think he has in the driving department. Mentally though he is in a better place whilst Hamilton (for me) has gone backwards in this department. Lewis seems to have lost a bit of appetite - I don't see the snarling and cold congratulations that come with someone desprate for the win. He needs to get the hunger back or at least match Rosberg's appetite.

[Guest]

If Hamilton has another poor start he could end up in a first lap pileup.  He does tend to lose it a little immediately after a poor start.

[Guest]

Question: If Hamilton is the fasted in qualifying will that be recorded as a pole position for the record - even though he won't start on pole because of the gearbox penalty.

[dyrewolfe]

Question:  If Hamilton is the fasted in qualifying will that be recorded as a pole position for the record - even though he won't start on pole because of the gearbox penalty.

I think its whoever starts in front after the penalty has been applied.

If Hamilton has another poor start he could end up in a first lap pileup. He does tend to lose it a little immediately after a poor start.

Actually Hamilton's record of coming through the pack is generally pretty good...although his starts are another matter. I think he will already have mentally prepared himself, knowing the highest he can start is 5th.

Even if he gets swamped at the start, I'd still back him to finish on the podium, as his car is so much better than just about everyone else's. If he can just remember that and play the long game, he'll be okay.

Of course, that doesn't factor in his state of mind, knowing that Rosberg is building a healthy lead over him. Hopefully he's telling himself that its still early days and there is plenty of time to claw it back.

[Jermaine2015]

Hamilton has a hybrid failure and doesn't set a lap in qualifying 1, will start last, or from the pits if engine needs changing.

[Jermaine2015]

Ferrari blow it again as Rosberg takes pole. Ricciardo gets second. Ferrari lock out row 2.

[dyrewolfe]

Hamilton must be getting all his bad luck for the season out of the way in one go.

Another damage limitation exercise for him tomorrow. Would still back him to get as high as 4th...think Rosberg and the Ferraris might be too far ahead to catch (barring any problems).

Fantastic effort by Ricciardo, but I don't think he will be able to live with the Ferraris' race pace.

Interesting that Rosberg set his time on soft tyres while the rest of the top 10 were on super-softs. Looks like he will just ram home his advantage by stopping several laps later.

Looks like the best we can hope for is that Vettel and/or Kimi can push Rosberg at least a bit.

[Jermaine2015]

Nico Rosberg produced another faultless drive to power to victory in Shanghai. Behind him there was carnage. Sebastian Vettel and Kimi Raikkonen crashed into each other on lap 1. But Vettel recovered to take 2nd and Red Bull's Daniil Kvyat was 3rd. Vettel wasn't happy with breaking his front wing against Kimi, he promptly broke his replacement as well.

Lewis Hamilton was caught up in the first lap carnage after being hit by Felipe Nasr, whom was trying to avoid Raikkonen. Daniel Ricciardo was leading early on but lost the lead due to a puncture but recovered to p4, kimi managed to finish in 5th and Hamilton recovered to 7th.

Massa was 6th, Verstappen was 8th, Sainz 9th and Bottas was 10th.

Rosberg is a perfect 75/75 and has 6 straight wins. Also every time a driver has won the first three races he's gone on to become world champion...

[Guest]

Mercedes still having problems with their starts.  In terms of race competition Hamilton hasn't been anywhere near Rosberg.  Not sure he has even led Rosberg after the start.  6 straight wins starting from the end of last season.  Rosberg's dominance over Hamilton has been as near complete as it possibly can be. The race before that Rosberg was in control again but a simple mistake saw Hamilton come through.  This season could be one of the most boring seasons ever.  Currently Rosberg has nearly double the points of his nearest rivals.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/36063085

[Guest]

Rosberg in dreamland, basically avoided any damage or confrontation this season, hasn't even had to endure any wheel to wheel racing. Fair play to him, he's exploited the unfortunate circumstances that have unfolded for his main rival. Hamilton needs to start turning this around, as a Hamilton fan, not overly worried yet, given there's still 18 races left. 36 points behind is nothing really.

[Guest]

The disappointment is that in the first three races Hamilton has been nowhere in challenging Rosberg.  The only challenge Rosberg had was with Vettel in the first race.

[Guest]

Well that was inevitable, given the fact Hamilton's had two bodged starts from pole & the other from the back of the grid. No chance of him challenging. Add to that, he's had an ERS failure in qualifying, a broken front wing thanks to Nasr & in Bahrain, Bottas gave him a damaged floor & broken barge boards, reducing his aero performance. Hamilton even had a damaged gearbox in Bahrain to deal with. As far as Nico is concerned, he's endured one bodged start in Australia, that allowed Vettel through, other than that, he's got away scott free.

To actually be only 36 points behind, given the circumstances, is actually a pretty decent return.

[dyrewolfe]

Feeling really sorry for Lewis at the moment. If it wasn't for bad luck, he'd have none at all.

Decent recovery drive, but I do wonder if the team's odd tyre strategy during the SC period set him back further than was necessary? If he hadn't made so many pit stops, might he have had a chance of a podium? Probably would have anyway, if he hadn't run over his front wing and damaged the floor...that seemed to hold him back quite a bit.

Seb and Kimi did well I thought, after getting caught up in the opening lap carnage. Ruined any chance of a battle for the lead though.

Liked Ricciardo's cheeky overtake at the start - really nailed it, but he was never going to retain the lead, even without that tyre blowout. Gutted for him as he probably would have been on the podium without that. As it was, great race for RB to pick up 3rd and 4th.

So-so races for Williams and Toro Rosso. McLaren still need to find more from the car if they are going to challenge for the points positions.

Most entertaining thing about the whole weekend for me was Vettel having a go at Kvyat after the race, for causing him to hit Kimi. Thought Daniil handled himself very well - more or less laughed it off.

[GSC]

I mean, there is an element of truth in the theory that if he could actually start a race well, he'd have been clear in the first 2 races.

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