World Rugby wants Marler explanation

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/35837685

Ask Martha....or Arthur

This is definitely news, and a topic worth discussing.

Sadly, this forum has demonstrated on several occasions that any debate will degenerate very quickly, so I suggest we just close this thread now.

I agree. This is a very important issue and the panel that made the decision not to take action needs to explain the reasoning behind it.

Previous mods are correct when they say it's a great area for discussion but not on this board currently.

Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

Wouldn't it just be easier if World Rugby dealt with all the citings across all top competitions? Then there'd be less chance of these inconsistencies.

RDW Scotland You should really remove the thread because this gypsy boy talk is ridiculous really.

It's a storm in a teacup.

Player says something abusive, not racial (gypsies aren't a race) - two words not even that bad. Player in question apologises. Player in question shouldn't have said it, it was stupid but there are far more pressing matters than something as trivial as this.

Focus on the rugby instead of this ^&%$.

Not even a good WUM, the ALL CAPS TITLE KEYBOARD MASHING IS A COMPLETE GIVEAWAY.

Completely OTT about some sledging that goes on EVERY game at EVERY level in rugby!

PC brigade going mad!

John Terry agrees.

42

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

yappysnap wrote:Wouldn't it just be easier if World Rugby dealt with all the citings across all top competitions? Then there'd be less chance of these inconsistencies.

Couldn't agree more but the Andrew Hore incident and others wouldn't lead to total confidence in that path.But something needs to be done to restore confidence in the current disciplinary system.I also think the relationship between the referee,the assistant referees and the TMO needs review more than innovative changes to the rugby rules.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

The post that seems to have disappeared from here for some reason.... I automatically assumed the only person with the power to do that would be a moderator....

If you didn't, I apologise....

I'd still lock this car-crash waiting to happen of a thread though...

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

The post that seems to have disappeared from here for some reason.... I automatically assumed the only person with the power to do that would be a moderator....

If you didn't, I apologise....

I'd still lock this car-crash waiting to happen of a thread though...

I'm confused - I removed a number of posts, including yours, and yet you're accusing us of leaving in a 'hysterical rant' even that I removed that too?

I agree to a certain extent that it's over the top, happens in every game, but IMO if he's caught on the microphone and broadcast to the world then it would have been good to send a message to kids that this sort of thing is not cool, that we can't and shouldn't goad, belittle, whatever you call it, based on heritage, race or culture. Think about the kids, mun I think it's minor, but then I think the same about other 'light remarks' we made about other cultures and heritage. Doesn't mean I'm right though, or that I can play down any offence caused on the behalf of others. Where these threads have been deleted is where, understandably, people have been offering up their own hypothetical scenarios for the precedent that this sets!

On another note, and worthy of discussion hopefully, is the point that Eddie Jones has accused Wales of attempting to detail their grand slam. I personally do not believe this is the case, but each to his own. However, I do hope that Jones extends that accusation to World Rugby now, after they have demanded an answer? Doubt it somehow.

Griff wrote:I agree to a certain extent that it's over the top, happens in every game, but IMO if he's caught on the microphone and broadcast to the world then it would have been good to send a message to kids that this sort of thing is not cool, that we can't and shouldn't goad, belittle, whatever you call it, based on heritage, race or culture.  Think about the kids, mun   I think it's minor, but then I think the same about other 'light remarks' we made about other cultures and heritage.  Doesn't mean I'm right though, or that I can play down any offence caused on the behalf of others.  Where these threads have been deleted is where, understandably, people have been offering up their own hypothetical scenarios for the precedent that this sets!

On another note, and worthy of discussion hopefully, is the point that Eddie Jones has accused Wales of attempting to detail their grand slam.  I personally do not believe this is the case, but each to his own.  However, I do hope that Jones extends that accusation to World Rugby now, after they have demanded an answer?  Doubt it somehow.

Now if all posts on this thread were like this then we'd have no problems!

beshocked wrote: RDW Scotland You should really remove the thread because this gypsy boy talk is ridiculous really.

It's a storm in a teacup.

Player says something abusive, not racial (gypsies aren't a race) - two words not even that bad. Player in question apologises. Player in question shouldn't have said it, it was stupid but there are far more pressing matters than something as trivial as this.

Focus on the rugby instead of this ^&%$.

By saying gypsies aren't a race therefore it isn't racist comment you are wrong Beshocked and its something that certain people always seem really quick to point out in an effort to somehow mitigate against ill advised comments like this.

Racism under British law and most countries is defined as any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin including gypsies or travellers and religious groups. Racism is not confined to discrimination based on the literal meaning of the word race. I'm stunned so many people struggle with this.

It might have been a throw away comment and Marler probably isn't racist or a bigot etc. but he said it and he should be accountable for his actions.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

The post that seems to have disappeared from here for some reason.... I automatically assumed the only person with the power to do that would be a moderator....

If you didn't, I apologise....

I'd still lock this car-crash waiting to happen of a thread though...

I'm confused - I removed a number of posts, including yours, and yet your accusing us of leaving in a 'hysterical rant' even that I removed that too?

So you did.... like I said, apologies.

it doesn't alter the fact that a known Welsh WUM has posted a link to an article designed to instigate a shi t storm and no other reason which still stands.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I agree to a certain extent that it's over the top, happens in every game, but IMO if he's caught on the microphone and broadcast to the world then it would have been good to send a message to kids that this sort of thing is not cool, that we can't and shouldn't goad, belittle, whatever you call it, based on heritage, race or culture.  Think about the kids, mun   I think it's minor, but then I think the same about other 'light remarks' we made about other cultures and heritage.  Doesn't mean I'm right though, or that I can play down any offence caused on the behalf of others.  Where these threads have been deleted is where, understandably, people have been offering up their own hypothetical scenarios for the precedent that this sets!

On another note, and worthy of discussion hopefully, is the point that Eddie Jones has accused Wales of attempting to detail their grand slam.  I personally do not believe this is the case, but each to his own.  However, I do hope that Jones extends that accusation to World Rugby now, after they have demanded an answer?  Doubt it somehow.

Now if all posts on this thread were like this then we'd have no problems!

It's funny actually RDW. I actually re-read my post and thought "I think this might get pulled for starting an argument"!!!

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

The post that seems to have disappeared from here for some reason.... I automatically assumed the only person with the power to do that would be a moderator....

If you didn't, I apologise....

I'd still lock this car-crash waiting to happen of a thread though...

I'm confused - I removed a number of posts, including yours, and yet your accusing us of leaving in a 'hysterical rant' even that I removed that too?

So you did.... like I said, apologies.

it doesn't alter the fact that a known Welsh WUM has posted a link to an article designed to instigate a shi t storm and no other reason which still stands.

OK fair enough. Maybe check your facts before accusing us of hypocrisy in the future!

As I said, I have removed a lot of threads already but this is a hot topic in rugby news just now so it is worthy of debate - assuming people can debate it in a way that won't lead to another thread being pulled.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I agree to a certain extent that it's over the top, happens in every game, but IMO if he's caught on the microphone and broadcast to the world then it would have been good to send a message to kids that this sort of thing is not cool, that we can't and shouldn't goad, belittle, whatever you call it, based on heritage, race or culture.  Think about the kids, mun   I think it's minor, but then I think the same about other 'light remarks' we made about other cultures and heritage.  Doesn't mean I'm right though, or that I can play down any offence caused on the behalf of others.  Where these threads have been deleted is where, understandably, people have been offering up their own hypothetical scenarios for the precedent that this sets!

On another note, and worthy of discussion hopefully, is the point that Eddie Jones has accused Wales of attempting to detail their grand slam.  I personally do not believe this is the case, but each to his own.  However, I do hope that Jones extends that accusation to World Rugby now, after they have demanded an answer?  Doubt it somehow.

Now if all posts on this thread were like this then we'd have no problems!

It's funny actually RDW.  I actually re-read my post and thought "I think this might get pulled for starting an argument"!!!

Ha, well you have raised valid points in a manner not intend to inflame or deliberately be offensive - i.e. you are debating the topic!

That's fine with me.

Griff wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Griff wrote:I agree to a certain extent that it's over the top, happens in every game, but IMO if he's caught on the microphone and broadcast to the world then it would have been good to send a message to kids that this sort of thing is not cool, that we can't and shouldn't goad, belittle, whatever you call it, based on heritage, race or culture.  Think about the kids, mun   I think it's minor, but then I think the same about other 'light remarks' we made about other cultures and heritage.  Doesn't mean I'm right though, or that I can play down any offence caused on the behalf of others.  Where these threads have been deleted is where, understandably, people have been offering up their own hypothetical scenarios for the precedent that this sets!

On another note, and worthy of discussion hopefully, is the point that Eddie Jones has accused Wales of attempting to detail their grand slam.  I personally do not believe this is the case, but each to his own.  However, I do hope that Jones extends that accusation to World Rugby now, after they have demanded an answer?  Doubt it somehow.

Now if all posts on this thread were like this then we'd have no problems!

It's funny actually RDW.  I actually re-read my post and thought "I think this might get pulled for starting an argument"!!!

That's funny, because I thought the same.

Eddie Jones is correct to say what he said. Gatland says one thing, realises he probably ought not to have. The WRU express concerns over the verdict and suddenly its in the press again. It smacks of attempting to reignite a done deal.

You'd think a Welsh player had never committed an offence and subsequently been aquitted of it wouldn't you.

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

Jimpy wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Well I've removed 3 of these threads already because they descend into anarchy, but since it's a Friday I'll let this one stand for a short while at least - any signs of the kind of posts we were getting on the previous threads and I'll have to shut down another one unfortunately.

You have been warned!

That's right, remove my perfectly rational post but leave the original hysterical rant by a disgruntled WUM.

Priceless.

Which post are you talking about Jimpy?

I edited the OP to just have a link to the BBC article if that is the one you are claiming I left in.

The post that seems to have disappeared from here for some reason.... I automatically assumed the only person with the power to do that would be a moderator....

If you didn't, I apologise....

I'd still lock this car-crash waiting to happen of a thread though...

I'm confused - I removed a number of posts, including yours, and yet your accusing us of leaving in a 'hysterical rant' even that I removed that too?

So you did.... like I said, apologies.

it doesn't alter the fact that a known Welsh WUM has posted a link to an article designed to instigate a shi t storm and no other reason which still stands.

OK fair enough. Maybe check your facts before accusing us of hypocrisy in the future!  

As I said, I have removed a lot of threads already but this is a hot topic in rugby news just now so it is worthy of debate - assuming people can debate it in a way that won't lead to another thread being pulled.

Apparently, only if you're Welsh. After the matter has been dealt with. After the Welsh lost to England.

They haven't said he was not guitly of it. He clearly was and has admitted to it. The reason they seemingly haven't punished him is that he's been told off by the RFU, apologised and it was said in the heat of the moment. Those 3 things (with the appropriate union) are true of almost every moment of ill discipline.

beshocked wrote:
Player says something abusive, not racial

Nope. It was racial.

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote: RDW Scotland You should really remove the thread because this gypsy boy talk is ridiculous really.

It's a storm in a teacup.

Player says something abusive, not racial (gypsies aren't a race) - two words not even that bad. Player in question apologises. Player in question shouldn't have said it, it was stupid but there are far more pressing matters than something as trivial as this.

Focus on the rugby instead of this ^&%$.

By saying gypsies aren't a race therefore it isn't racist comment you are showing your ignorance Beshocked and its something that certain people always seem really quick to point out in an effort to somehow mitigate against ill advised comments like this.

Racism under British law and most countries is defined as any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin including gypsies or travellers and religious groups. Racism is not confined to discrimination based on the literal meaning of the word race. I'm stunned so many people struggle with this.

It might have been a throw away comment and Marler probably isn't racist or a bigot etc. but he said it and he should be accountable for his actions.

Gunsgerms

Gypsies aren't a race - I don't give a damn if you think they are - they aren't. It's not racism in the literal meaning of the word. Why should gypsies be put on a pedestal?

English people get accused of arrogance all the time - it's casual xenophobia but it's accepted.

You can't go ape something like this and not kick up about other things.

Political correctness gone mad. I think it's wrong what Marler said but it's been blown out of proportion - he apologised.

bumble gypsies aren't a race. Not even debatable - they are not.

They are under UK law. The country you live in. I suggest you familiarise yourself with the laws of your own country.

beshocked wrote:

GunsGerms wrote:

beshocked wrote: RDW Scotland You should really remove the thread because this gypsy boy talk is ridiculous really.

It's a storm in a teacup.

Player says something abusive, not racial (gypsies aren't a race) - two words not even that bad. Player in question apologises. Player in question shouldn't have said it, it was stupid but there are far more pressing matters than something as trivial as this.

Focus on the rugby instead of this ^&%$.

By saying gypsies aren't a race therefore it isn't racist comment you are showing your ignorance Beshocked and its something that certain people always seem really quick to point out in an effort to somehow mitigate against ill advised comments like this.

Racism under British law and most countries is defined as any group of people who are defined by reference to their race, colour, nationality (including citizenship) or ethnic or national origin including gypsies or travellers and religious groups. Racism is not confined to discrimination based on the literal meaning of the word race. I'm stunned so many people struggle with this.

It might have been a throw away comment and Marler probably isn't racist or a bigot etc. but he said it and he should be accountable for his actions.

Gunsgerms

Gypsies aren't a race - I don't give a damn if you think they are - they aren't. It's not racism in the literal meaning of the word. Why should gypsies be put on a pedestal?

English people get accused of arrogance all the time - it's casual xenophobia but it's accepted.

You can't go ape something like this and not kick up about other things.

Political correctness gone mad. I think it's wrong what Marler said but it's been blown out of proportion - he apologised.

It was racist abuse. According to the law. We don't make the laws. Marler chose to break them.

For anyone in the UK not familiar with the definition of race under UK law here it is:

Race Relations Act 1976

Meaning of “racial grounds", “racial group" etc.
.

(1)

In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires—
.
“racial grounds” means any of the following grounds, namely colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins;
“racial group” means a group of persons defined by reference to colour, race, nationality or ethnic or national origins, and references to a person’s racial group refer to any racial group into which he falls.


So yes under UK law for the purposes of racial discrimination gypsies are a race.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1976/74/section/3

Familiarise yourself with your own laws because if you break them don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you.

Jimpy I've just removed that post - they are very much the kind of posts that will lead to this thread being pulled.

Heat of the moment is going to be rolled out after any offence now.

Does anybody know why Team Wales would want to derail England's Grand Slam bid though? It's seems a very nonsensical thing to say, particularly when England are already champions. I'd have thought it makes no odds to anybody within the WRU what happens now.

rainbow-warrior wrote:Edited

You too RW!

Allty wrote:I agree. This is a very important issue and the panel that made the decision not to take action needs to explain the reasoning behind it.

They did explain their decision and the reasoning behind it. Six Nations Rugby said in a statement it was "aware of the seriousness of Mr Marler's comment and does not in anyway condone what was said" but accepted it was said "in the heat of the moment". "We have considered the reports in detail and noted that, unprompted, he immediately apologised to Mr Lee at half-time". "Having taken all the facts into account, no further disciplinary action will be taken," it said. "Six Nations Rugby consider that this matter is now closed."

Marler has apologised. Lee has accepted the apology. Eddie Jones has reprimanded Marler. Gatland has dismissed the issue.

Enough already!!

RiscaGame wrote:Heat of the moment is going to be rolled out after any offence now.

Does anybody know why Team Wales would want to derail England's Grand Slam bid though? It's seems a very nonsensical thing to say, particularly when England are already champions. I'd have thought it makes no odds to anybody within the WRU what happens now.

I'd say Jones is just trying to get away from area as quick as possible and put the focus on himself rather than marler and the team in relation to theat 2nd part.

First part is spot on. And you know what? When someone punches someone apologises, their Union say he has to keep higher standards I don't think the citing committee will say it was heat in the moment and let them off.

So the IRB or World rugby (can't decide if they are Arthur or Martha by the sounds of it) want an answer.

Simples, in the heat of battle one man called another man a name (which he himself has described himself as one in the past) the matter was laughed off and one man apologized. (for what I do not know)

Then the coach of one said there was no case to answer as it was just Banter, this then angered the Bosses/overloards of the coach as they have a huge chip on their shoulders and want to derail another teams build up to Saturdays game.

Much ado about nothing!

TightHEAD wrote:So the IRB or World rugby (can't decide if they are Arthur or Martha by the sounds of it) want an answer.

Simples, in the heat of battle one man called another man a name (which he himself has described himself as one in the past) the matter was laughed off and one man apologized. (for what I do not know)

Then the coach of one said there was no case to answer as it was just Banter, this then angered the Bosses/overloards of the coach as they have a huge chip on their shoulders and want to derail another teams build up to Saturdays game.

Much ado about nothing!

You are alarmingly out of touch with the law, and with standards of decency in modern society.

I wonder if you are now allowed punch someone in the face and chalk it down to the heat of the battle.

This years six nations the citing panel and refs have been ridiculously lenient.

bumble wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:So the IRB or World rugby (can't decide if they are Arthur or Martha by the sounds of it) want an answer.

Simples, in the heat of battle one man called another man a name (which he himself has described himself as one in the past) the matter was laughed off and one man apologized. (for what I do not know)

Then the coach of one said there was no case to answer as it was just Banter, this then angered the Bosses/overloards of the coach as they have a huge chip on their shoulders and want to derail another teams build up to Saturdays game.

Much ado about nothing!

You are alarmingly out of touch with the law, and with standards of decency in modern society.

Welcome to 606, but I suspect you have been here before.

How am I alarmingly out of touch fella?

Gunsgerms

Still don't see gypsies as a race.

If Marler called him a sheep shagger would that be acceptable?

I am not advocating Marler's use of language but the furore over this has been farcical.

I am all for tolerance of all types of people but I believe it's wrong to put one group on a pedestal.


The WRU should just let this go. Not let this circus carry on.

You would acknowledge the law does though beshocked.

beshocked wrote:Gunsgerms

Still don't see gypsies as a race.

If Marler called him a sheep shagger would that be acceptable?

I am not advocating Marler's use of language but the furore over this has been farcical.

I am all for tolerance of all types of people but I believe it's wrong to put one group on a pedestal.

The WRU should just let this go. Not let this circus carry on.

Its irrelevant if you see them as a race or not. For the purpose of this discussion and the law in the UK they definitively are a race.

Your whole argument they aren't a race so therefore it cannot be racism is unbelievably paper thin and pathetic do you not get that?

It almost as if you are saying you can say whatever you want about gypsies because they aren't a race therefore no one can accuse me of racism. It doesn't work like that.

Rubbish

Familiarise yourself with your own laws because if you break them don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you

So why are rugby players who punch, gouge etc not arrested and facing criminal proceedings?

This whole 'laws of the land' argument needs to be examined.

Or are you saying assault is ok but racial slander is not?

Can't pick and choose which laws are valid for a rugby pitch.

TightHEAD wrote:

bumble wrote:

TightHEAD wrote:So the IRB or World rugby (can't decide if they are Arthur or Martha by the sounds of it) want an answer.

Simples, in the heat of battle one man called another man a name (which he himself has described himself as one in the past) the matter was laughed off and one man apologized. (for what I do not know)

Then the coach of one said there was no case to answer as it was just Banter, this then angered the Bosses/overloards of the coach as they have a huge chip on their shoulders and want to derail another teams build up to Saturdays game.

Much ado about nothing!

You are alarmingly out of touch with the law, and with standards of decency in modern society.

Welcome to 606, but I suspect you have been here before.

How am I alarmingly out of touch fella?

The irony of mentioning people that have been here before.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Jimpy I've just removed that post - they are very much the kind of posts that will lead to this thread being pulled.

We can but hope.

TrailApe wrote:

Familiarise yourself with your own laws because if you break them don't expect anyone to feel sorry for you

So why are rugby players who punch, gouge etc not arrested and facing criminal proceedings?

This whole 'laws of the land' argument needs to be examined.

Or are you saying assault is ok but racial slander is not?

Can't pick and choose which laws are valid for a rugby pitch.

I never said Marler should be arrested. I think he should be given appropriate sanction by a governing body that is charged with handing out appropriate sanctions.