Leinster vs Edinburgh - Friday 15 April 2016

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LEINSTER


EDINBURGH
Players not considered due to injury: Mike Coman (calf), Jack Cuthbert (knee), Nathan Fowles (shoulder), Grant Gilchrist (arm), Will Helu (pectoral), Nasi Manu (neck), Fraser McKenzie (neck), Matt Scott (arm), Jade Te Rure (knee).


Edinburgh Rugby v Leinster, Friday 15 April 2016, RDS Dublin, kick-off 7.35pm

15. Blair Kinghorn

14. Damien Hoyland

13. Chris Dean

12. Phil Burleigh

11. Tom Brown

10. Jason Tovey

9.   Sam Hidalgo-Clyne



1. Alasdair Dickinson

2. Ross Ford (captain)

3. WP Nel

4. Anton Bresler

5. Ben Toolis

6. Jamie Ritchie

7. John Hardie

8. Cornell Du Preez



Substitutes

16. Stuart McInally

17. Rory Sutherland

18. John Andress

19. Alex Toolis

20. Magnus Bradbury

21. Hamish Watson

22. Sean Kennedy

23. Mike Allan



Leinster (63)

Playing For: Home Playoff

Run in: Ulster (A), Treviso (H)


Edinburgh (52)

Playing for: Top 6 Qualification

Run in: Munster (A), Cardiff (H)



Outlook

It's hard to see anything but a Leinster win here. This is an ideal opportunity for Leinster to get 5 points against an Edinburgh side that only mustered a try bonus point against Zebre in the final minutes. With a tough trip to Ulster the following week, this might be a good opportunity for Leinster to rest/not risk a few key players.

For Edinburgh, I don't think a top 6 place is vital. Of course it would be nice to see the likes of Toulon/Saracens/Wasps/Racing come to Murrayfield although it would not help to develop young players (or the whole team tbh). I'd like to see Edinburgh use the run-in to finish the season on a high and bring back the strong defence that has gone on holiday recently.

I think he probably would have scored but I am not sure that is good enough - he was a long way out still

Yet another example of where the Laws need an overhaul. How is it possible for anyone to predict what would have happened - have they never seem a Question of Sport?

So you are saying hauling down a maul thats tanking along just before the line or tripping someone up as they are about to score is not worth a penalty try?

McFadden and Burleigh both cited from this game.

McFadden for the high, dangerous tackle and Burleigh for making contact with the eye area.

I suspect they are both going to do some time, Burleigh probably the longer if recent examples are any guide.

Just about to post that. Here's a link, and it shows a different angle to the McFadden hit: McFaddenAndBurlieghCited

If Burliegh is found guilty he could be out for 10 weeks.

Didn't see the Burleigh incident at the time and no one seemed to make any fuss

McFadden needs a nice long break for that really - and it could have changed the game - 3 pts down with 5 mins to go against 14 men?

BigGee wrote:McFadden and Burleigh both cited from this game.

I just knew those corrupt Irish citing officers were going to let McFadden off completely... wait, what?

I remember during the game that Ben Te'o was got really upset after a ruck and there were some afters, as he was walking back he was speaking to the ref and pointed to his eyes.

They did show a slow mo of it during the game, John Beattie was getting quite excted about it. Burleighs hand does seem to brush over Teo's face, that is all you could real see. It happend at speed so it is hard to say if there was any intent or not, but from what we have seen previously, the fact that he was anywhere near the eye area will be enough to get him some time on the naughty step. Edinburgh wil be lucky to see him on the pitch again this season.

Strange from Burleigh - he's far from a dirty player.

Will be interesting to see who gets the longer ban....!

Well it won't be McFadden thats for sure.

I was more meaning which incident in the eyes of the law (no pun intended) are worthy of a longer ban.

Any replays of the burleigh incident?

McFadden will get any ban reduced for his impeccable disciplinary record , playing for Leinster and of course being Irish. Burleigh will get whacked for his thuggish previous, playing for a Scottish team and worse being Scottish(is he ?). Just watch. It will be like the Blackadder 4 court martial scene when Burleigh gets wheeled in.

RDW_Scotland wrote:I was more meaning which incident in the eyes of the law (no pun intended) are worthy of a longer ban.

Any replays of the burleigh incident?

Not seen a replay as such, but watched the game back (yeah I don't know why) and I think Burleigh could be in trouble. I didn't see it at the time, but he definitely puts his hand in the Leinster players face on the ground. Giving him the benefit of the doubt he might have been just trying to push his head away from his own, but that's being really generous.

There wasn't any replays as such at the time, so can't say for sure if he meant it or not, but if he gets a sizeable ban then it's probably fair, intent or not, he makes contact with his face around the eye area and deserves to be sat in the stands for a while.

An eye incident is always going to get a longer ban, though Mcfadden's tackle attempt probably had the potential to do a lot more harm

I haven't seen the Burleigh incident but if he did make contact with the eye then I have no problem at all with a ban being imposed. Blow for Edinburgh, particularly in the next game against Munster which is "must win".

McFadden should banned. Reckless attempt at a tackle.

Matt Scott should hopefully be back for Munster so that eases that blow.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Matt Scott should hopefully be back for Munster so that eases that blow.

As does the fact that we played some of our best rugby this season without Burleigh (or Scott). Both are class players but I really hope Edinburgh look at the rugby played against Leinster and start to move the ball a bit more in the last couple of games.

funnyExiledScot wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:Matt Scott should hopefully be back for Munster so that eases that blow.

As does the fact that we played some of our best rugby this season without Burleigh (or Scott). Both are class players but I really hope Edinburgh look at the rugby played against Leinster and start to move the ball a bit more in the last couple of games.

Couldn't agree more - we're not going to beat Munster playing the dross we did in the opening 40 minutes.

Munster are a shadow of their former selves but it is a must win game for them too, and they are at home.

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:McFadden will get any ban reduced for his impeccable disciplinary record , playing for Leinster and of course being Irish.  Burleigh will get whacked for his thuggish previous, playing for a Scottish team and worse being Scottish(is he ?).   Just watch. It will be like the Blackadder 4 court martial scene when Burleigh gets wheeled in.  

Don't worry.

As you would statistically expect if you were picking a player at random from a Scottish club side, Burleigh's not Scottish. So he's dodged that bullet.

Munchkin wrote:

profitius wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:Initial contact looks pretty high to me

The wingers knee was almost touching the ground there. I'd say McFadden was expecting him to remind more upright so it wasn't a red card.


McFadden deserved a yellow though because it was still dangerous. McFadden is a bit of a kamikaze tackler and I've seen him hurt himself badly on numerous occasions.

That's a good point.

I have changed my opinion. McFadden should still be suspended for the next game though  .....

I think I'm on the same page, I think it should have been a yellow. I was at the game and the entire section I was in was only talking yellow vs red card and could a penalty try be given.

Yellow card would have been an easy descision to make (the ref wouldn't have gotten as much grief as he has for not giving any card). Personally at the time watching it live I thought yellow card and a penalty try. There was an argument that Kearney was goal side when McF made the challenge however the winger had left Kearney in his wake 10m earlier and the only reason he had gotten goalside was because McF was making the challenge. If the rule is that the player infringing should be removed from the play then Kearney would still have been behind the Edinburgh player and it was a clear path to the try line.

Also thought red was an option. Especially in the final 10 minutes of a game, the colour of the card makes no difference to that match itself (player goes for 10 minutes/remainder of game anyway) and then if the ref has over-reacted the incident is automatically reviewed by disciplinary panel afterwards. (you could argue that almost all yellows in the final 10 minutes of a game could easily be flipped to reds).

Edinburgh played very well over the 80 minutes and deserved at least the LBP.

Healy again was the poorest front row player for Leinster (and that includes solid performances from the bench). The locks were good for Leinster (great options for next season). The back row played well as a unit. The backline seemed unsettled, were there late adjustments, thought Ringrose was due a start, didn't think Luke would be on the wing and didn't think Reid would start. Overall a solid team performance. I'm not sure they have what it takes to win it all this season but well placed for next year.

Is Cullen starting to look like a head coach? (possibly the most positive thing I've ever said about him as a coach)

thebandwagonsociety wrote:

Munchkin wrote:

profitius wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:Initial contact looks pretty high to me

The wingers knee was almost touching the ground there. I'd say McFadden was expecting him to remind more upright so it wasn't a red card.


McFadden deserved a yellow though because it was still dangerous. McFadden is a bit of a kamikaze tackler and I've seen him hurt himself badly on numerous occasions.

That's a good point.

I have changed my opinion. McFadden should still be suspended for the next game though  .....

I think I'm on the same page, I think it should have been a yellow.  I was at the game and the entire section I was in was only talking yellow vs red card and could a penalty try be given.

Yellow card would have been an easy descision to make (the ref wouldn't have gotten as much grief as he has for not giving any card).  Personally at the time watching it live I thought yellow card and a penalty try.  There was an argument that Kearney was goal side when McF made the challenge however the winger had left Kearney in his wake 10m earlier and the only reason he had gotten goalside was because McF was making the challenge.  If the rule is that the player infringing should be removed from the play then Kearney would still have been behind the Edinburgh player and it was a clear path to the try line.

Also thought red was an option.  Especially in the final 10 minutes of a game, the colour of the card makes no difference to that match itself (player goes for 10 minutes/remainder of game anyway) and then if the ref has over-reacted the incident is automatically reviewed by disciplinary panel afterwards. (you could argue that almost all yellows in the final 10 minutes of a game could easily be flipped to reds).

Edinburgh played very well over the 80 minutes and deserved at least the LBP.

Healy again was the poorest front row player for Leinster (and that includes solid performances from the bench). The locks were good for Leinster (great options for next season). The back row played well as a unit.  The backline seemed unsettled, were there late adjustments, thought Ringrose was due a start, didn't think Luke would be on the wing and didn't think Reid would start. Overall a solid team performance. I'm not sure they have what it takes to win it all this season but well placed for next year.

Is Cullen starting to look like a head coach? (possibly the most positive thing I've ever said about him as a coach)

I think that is a very fair assessment. I doubt there would have been many complaints if he had been given a yellow.

Don Alfonso wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:McFadden will get any ban reduced for his impeccable disciplinary record , playing for Leinster and of course being Irish.  Burleigh will get whacked for his thuggish previous, playing for a Scottish team and worse being Scottish(is he ?).   Just watch. It will be like the Blackadder 4 court martial scene when Burleigh gets wheeled in.  

Don't worry.

As you would statistically expect if you were picking a player at random from a Scottish club side, Burleigh's not Scottish. So he's dodged that bullet.

Sigh, do we have to go through this again

BigGee wrote:They did show a slow mo of it during the game, John Beattie was getting quite excted about it. Burleighs hand does seem to brush over Teo's face, that is all you could real see. It happend at speed so it is hard to say if there was any intent or not, but from what we have seen previously, the fact that he was anywhere near the eye area will be enough to get him some time on the naughty step. Edinburgh wil be lucky to see him on the pitch again this season.

Beattie seemed to think it was Hardy at the time, but Beattie is prone to not knowing what he is talking about on a regular basis.

If Burleigh did make contact with the eye then he'll get the book thrown at him, and rightly so!

cakeordeath wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:McFadden will get any ban reduced for his impeccable disciplinary record , playing for Leinster and of course being Irish.  Burleigh will get whacked for his thuggish previous, playing for a Scottish team and worse being Scottish(is he ?).   Just watch. It will be like the Blackadder 4 court martial scene when Burleigh gets wheeled in.  

Don't worry.

As you would statistically expect if you were picking a player at random from a Scottish club side, Burleigh's not Scottish. So he's dodged that bullet.

Sigh, do we have to go through this again

Ah, come on.

All the "top bants" about "Lord Sexton" and the Irish being precious is fine, but make one wee joke about Scottish mercenaries and all of a sudden it's OH SO DREADFULLY TIRESOME.

Don Alfonso wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:McFadden will get any ban reduced for his impeccable disciplinary record , playing for Leinster and of course being Irish.  Burleigh will get whacked for his thuggish previous, playing for a Scottish team and worse being Scottish(is he ?).   Just watch. It will be like the Blackadder 4 court martial scene when Burleigh gets wheeled in.  

Don't worry.

As you would statistically expect if you were picking a player at random from a Scottish club side, Burleigh's not Scottish. So he's dodged that bullet.

Sigh, do we have to go through this again

Ah, come on.

All the "top bants" about "Lord Sexton" and the Irish being precious is fine, but make one wee joke about Scottish mercenaries and all of a sudden it's OH SO DREADFULLY TIRESOME.

Not really a fair comparison.

1. It has already been show that when people say this, they are talking Love sacks, because science.
2. Sexton isn't a lord, more like a princess

cakeordeath wrote:

Not really a fair comparison.

1. It has already been show that when people say this, they are talking Love sacks, because science.
2. Sexton isn't a lord, more like a princess

Scottish fan in "not fair" whine shocker.

Don Alfonso wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

Not really a fair comparison.

1. It has already been show that when people say this, they are talking Love sacks, because science.
2. Sexton isn't a lord, more like a princess

Scottish fan in "not fair" whine shocker.

Irish fan in believed superior attitude shocker

cakeordeath wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

Not really a fair comparison.

1. It has already been show that when people say this, they are talking Love sacks, because science.
2. Sexton isn't a lord, more like a princess

Scottish fan in "not fair" whine shocker.

Irish fan in believed superior attitude shocker

Ha ha ha touché!

Clearly rubbing shoulders with all those imports is sharpening the Scots' wit.

Don Alfonso wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

Don Alfonso wrote:

cakeordeath wrote:

Not really a fair comparison.

1. It has already been show that when people say this, they are talking Love sacks, because science.
2. Sexton isn't a lord, more like a princess

Scottish fan in "not fair" whine shocker.

Irish fan in believed superior attitude shocker

Ha ha ha touché!

Clearly rubbing shoulders with all those imports is sharpening the Scots' wit.

It's South Africans we are importing!

Hmmmm. No comment.

Do you two want a private thread just for the two of you??

And deprive others of our urbane, sparkling banter? You crazy.

Anyway, think McFadden deserves a ban. For all the players whose bans are shortened because of prior excellent or unblemished records, his chequered behaviour should see his increased. He really needs to cop himself on.

RDW_Scotland wrote:Do you two want a private thread just for the two of you??

oooo, they don't want that! Everyone knows that GC has his own little CCTV camera in these places where he likes to "watch"

For the sake of the thread - McFadden given 3 week ban for that bit of stupidity. Hopefully he learns his lesson (he is a danger to himself and others going into contact like that).

McFadden banned for 3 weeks - increased from 2 for bad behavior.

I'm assuming that means the incident was deemed worthy of being a red - makes it even more disappointing that he wasn't even given a yellow.

It has to be a mark against Mitrea as well. It's not like he can claim he missed it. It happened in the open field and it was replayed by the TMO on a giant tv for him as well.

Aye - Shame for Mitrea he is developing into one of my favourite refs. He does not like giving cards tho - but hopefully he will learn from this. TMO did agree with him at the time.

3 weeks sounds about right - thats a retrospective red which is what it should have been. Not sure about the penalty try - would perhaps have been harsh but if it had been given red / penalty try thenEdinburgh might well have won - and be in the euro cup

I think the ref and TMO rushed it and didn't communicate properly. The TMO should have been more persistent to advise the ref I reckon. I know we don't want those decisions taking ages but they ultimately made the wrong one, which is against the whole purpose of having a TMO.

TJ wrote:Aye - Shame for Mitrea he is developing into one of my favourite refs.  He does not like giving cards tho - but hopefully he will learn from this.  TMO did agree with him at the time.

3 weeks sounds about right - thats a retrospective red which is what it should have been.  Not sure about the penalty try - would perhaps have been harsh but if it had been given red / penalty try thenEdinburgh might well have won - and be in the euro cup

Just to be clear - thats not a "ref whinge" - Edinburgh should also have won a few more games earlier in the season and then this wouldn't have mattered. all refs make mistakes and the best teams are not in a position where this matters and the mistakes even out over a season

TJ wrote:Aye - Shame for Mitrea he is developing into one of my favourite refs.  He does not like giving cards tho - but hopefully he will learn from this.  TMO did agree with him at the time.

3 weeks sounds about right - thats a retrospective red which is what it should have been.  Not sure about the penalty try - would perhaps have been harsh but if it had been given red / penalty try thenEdinburgh might well have won - and be in the euro cup

Matrea is the third most card happy ref in PRO12 (16 yellows in 10 games!), behind Linton (number one with 5 yellows in three games) and Whitehouse (24 yellows in 15 games!).

Of the 16 yellows Matrea handed out, 14 were against the away team. Of the 24 that Whitehouse handed out, 18 were against the away team. All 5 of Lintons were against the away team.

Matrea has also handed out 3 cards in three games with T14.

http://www.worldclubrugby.com/analysis/discipline.php?seasonID=21&competitionsID=1

Don't understand why Mitrea didn't card McFadden, but fair judgement in the end.

The TMO did tell Mitrea that there were no arms in the tackle, but Mitrea brushed it off with some excuse about the speed of the tackle.

Interesting - My impression was he didn't give many cards

TJ wrote:Interesting - My impression was he didn't give many cards

To be honest, I thought the ones who really don't give many dished them out, and the ones who dish them out didn't  Surprised me as well

Burleigh's citing was not upheld and he's free to play immediately.

Result is: - McFadden is a thug and Mitrea an idiot - along with the homer TMO (why can they not be banned ?)

Was thinking the same schitz.

Refs should get some form of punishment for cocking things up

Punishment - don't be ridiculous! What do yo want to do - fine them? their performances are constantly appraised and the best get promoted the worst demoted. If you start punishing mistakes we soon wouldn't have any refs at all as they would all quit

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:Result is: - McFadden is a thug and Mitrea an idiot - along with the homer TMO (why can they not be banned ?)

It was the homer TMO that argued McFadden didn't use the arms. The TMO wasn't at fault in this case.

tmos from the home country is because of costs. Its something that could do with being sorted - not because of bias but because it leaves them open to accusations of bias

As for Mitrea - I still think he is a decent ref and is developing into a really good one. As an Edinburgh fan I would still be happy to have him ref our games. His breakdown reffing is perhaps a bit pedantic but he does allow fair competition and you get your turnovers with him and he is nice and consistent.

Oyannax player banned for 15 months for swearing at the ref in a Top 14 game. Deliberate attempt to injure an opponent by a Leinster player, with considerable previous, 3 week ban. A total disgrace. These people are trying to destroy the game.

BTW Mitrea remains an incompetent idiot.