Pro 12 Grand Final 2016 - Leinster v Connacht

by Pot Hale Tue May 24, 2016 9:46 am

First topic message reminder :

They're playing in Edinburgh.

They won the tender to host the final. On the same weekend as two other big events in the city - Edinburgh Marathon and bank holiday weekend.

Result? Hoteliers charging up to €800 a night for this weekend. Cheapest is €556.

Destination Final seems to be a dud.

Meanwhile, Leinster and Connacht prepare to duke it out.

15. Rob Kearney (175)
14. Dave Kearney (102)
13. Garry Ringrose (21)
12. Ben Te'o (39)
11. Luke Fitzgerald (153)
10. Johnny Sexton (125)
9. Eoin Reddan (139)
1. Jack McGrath (94)
2. Richardt Strauss (130)
3. Mike Ross (134)
4. Ross Molony (22)
5. Mick Kearney (8)
6. Rhys Ruddock (112)
7. Jordi Murphy (79)
8. Jamie Heaslip (216) CAPTAIN

16. Sean Cronin (113)
17. Peter Dooley (20)
18. Tadhg Furlong (50)
19. Hayden Triggs (14)
20. Jack Conan (30)
21. Luke McGrath (49)
22. Ian Madigan (146)
23. Zane Kirchner (64)

15 Tiernan O’Halloran
14 Niyi Adeolokun
13 Robbie Henshaw
12 Bundee Aki
11 Matt Healy
10 AJ MacGinty
9 Kieran Marmion

1 Ronan Loughney
2 Tom McCartney
3 Finlay Bealham
4 Ultan Dillane
5 Aly Muldowney
6 Eoin McKeon
7 Jake Heenan
8 John Muldoon (captain)

Replacements:

16 Dave Heffernan
17 JP Cooney
18 Rodney Ah You
19 Andrew Browne
20 Sean O’Brien
21 John Cooney
22 Shane O’Leary
23 Peter Robb

by Golden Sat May 28, 2016 11:55 am

Hard to be too disappointed with that result. The better team definitely won.

Delighted for Connacht and Muldoon in particular. The man is an absolute gent. I feel like if this didn't happen the same year as the leicester story this would be a bigger deal outside of the normal rugby circles.

by Engine#4 Sat May 28, 2016 11:56 am

Best team in the league. Congrats Connacht guinness

by mikey_dragon Sat May 28, 2016 11:57 am

Well done Connacht!

by Don Alfonso Sat May 28, 2016 12:06 pm

Delighted for the men from the West. What a journey they've been on.

Leinster are awful away from home.

by **RDW** Sat May 28, 2016 12:10 pm

34,450 crowd

Thought it was more than that from inside the stadium.

by nathan Sat May 28, 2016 12:46 pm

Well done Connacht!!

Found somewhere that sells Guinness at a good price and is yummy. Although the stag looks a little worse for wear

by SecretFly Sat May 28, 2016 12:48 pm

Well done Connacht. There'll be one heck of a party in the Wesht.

Leinster couldn't get their hands on that thing called a ball. They were just pummelled out of the game. The year of the 'no hopers' as a friend said as he watched.

by **profitius** Sat May 28, 2016 12:51 pm

Great win for Connacht! Great game too especially that period in the first half when they were on fire.

Great win for the league too. The last 2 winners, Glasgow and Connacht have shown how rugby should be played.

by yappysnap Sat May 28, 2016 1:48 pm

Congrats Connacht, really pleased for them clap

by Engine#4 Sun May 29, 2016 3:20 am

profitius wrote:Great win for Connacht! Great game too especially that period in the first half when they were on fire.

Great win for the league too. The last 2 winners, Glasgow and Connacht have shown how rugby should be played.

Aye, the two clubs to win it before that were brutal to watch raspberry

by brennomac Sun May 29, 2016 9:32 am

Superb analysis of Connacht's tries (and Leinster's defensive deficincies) by Murray Kinsella

http://www.the42.ie/analysis-connacht-tries-leinster-pro12-final-2794715-May2016/

by thebandwagonsociety Mon May 30, 2016 2:01 am

Congrats to Connacht. Excellent game plan and fully deserving of their win.

Lam should make a play at the IRFU to hold onto Henshaw (these next few days would be the days to achieve it).

Some of the criticism of Cullen and Leinster in the press seems a bit OTT. Connacht won this game as opposed to Leinster losing it. And Leinster did have the best defence in the league and finished top of the pile in the regular season yet are below par and had a poor year according to some journalist who last watched them 3 years ago. Anyway, that analysis is for the summer months. For now, congratulations Connacht.

Hope the headaches aren't too bad at this stage ;-)

by SecretFly Mon May 30, 2016 2:39 am

Good post bandwagon.

Especially the OTT bit and this bit "Connacht won this game as opposed to Leinster losing it".

Connacht were possessed. To blame Leinster is to belittle Connacht's performance.

by **RDW** Mon May 30, 2016 2:51 am

From a neutral point of view I thought Connacht played very well but also Leinster played poorly - especially in comparison to the Ulster game.

There was no spark, no creativity and some real basic errors.

I'm sure at least some of that was down to Connacht's ruthlessness though!

by funnyExiledScot Mon May 30, 2016 2:55 am

Connacht are absolute role models to currently underachieving sides like Edinburgh. We should be closely following their example and trying to emulate that success. They play with great intensity and tempo, and seem to have practicised some backline moves as well!

Take notes Solomons!

by SecretFly Mon May 30, 2016 3:02 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:From a neutral point of view I thought Connacht played very well but also Leinster played poorly - especially in comparison to the Ulster game.

There was no spark, no creativity and some real basic errors.

I'm sure at least some of that was down to Connacht's ruthlessness though!

Leinster did play poorly...but much of it was that 'poor' that develops when you can't get a foothold in the game because the opposition is all over you. Connacht smothered the life and will out of Leinster and it really does need a bow directed the way of Lam and his players.

But having said that - Leinster playing well below the Ulster performance and with some central players missing.... well, they damn near dragged it back to being a pretty close game if that 'forward pass' wasn't called.

Connacht deserve all the credit. They were flies around a carcass, they never tired of their commitment to keep Leinster off the ball - but the retrospective critiques/gloating Whistle

from media and some fans is OTT. Leinster, playing poor stuff all year, topped the League and got to the final. Not bad for a shyte team.

by **RDW** Mon May 30, 2016 3:03 am

In the modern day and age it was just great to see a smaller club achieving success by playing more rugby, when normally teams just try and make themselves difficult to beat to survive!

by SecretFly Mon May 30, 2016 3:08 am

RDW_Scotland wrote:In the modern day and age it was just great to see a smaller club achieving success by playing more rugby, when normally teams just try and make themselves difficult to beat to survive!

Absolutely.

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 1:55 am

Well done Connacht - best team of the season.

Awesome performances from Muldoon and Bundi-aki.

How Healy, Muldowney and O'Halloran aren't in the Irish squad is beyond me.

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 1:57 am

Is Muldoon Irish? Wink

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 2:01 am

SecretFly wrote:Is Muldoon Irish?

His beard is.

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 2:07 am

Then why doesn't Schmidt ever choose his beard?

I've heard so much about this man...about his drive, his conviction, his natural Captain qualities, his Lions heart, his loyalty and resolve and his towering performances - pretty much all of it true.

And yet whenever Connacht is mentioned as a side deserving of more Internationals...his name scarcely comes up...from anyone, journalists or fans.

Strange.

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 2:10 am

Only one answer and that is his age. He should have had more caps but probably has missed the boat.

Mudowney though I'm scratching my head at why he has been ignored in recent seasons.

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 2:16 am

To hell with age. If he can do it, he can do it... even for one year. Heaslip is only a year younger. Rory Best is the same age.

The campaign for Muldoooooon for Ireland International starts here.... straight in as Captain too.

by propdavid_london Tue May 31, 2016 2:24 am

Well done Connacht, one hell of a campaign and well deserved. Going from what many called a feeder team to Pro 12 Champs.

by propdavid_london Tue May 31, 2016 3:15 am

What did people think about Ben Teo? I haven't heard much about the Leinster centre pairing in the match reports.
Will he drop straight into the England side or is there a bit of overhype?

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 3:25 am

Hard to say. In a better (vintage) Leinster side, Pro12 and indeed Europe might have been hearing much more from him. But it's difficult for any players to excel in a side that really isn't there yet. Had he hung around for another year or two then I feel he might have added to a Leinster side that I feel will get better.

With England, a team on fire in European terms anyway..... well, who knows. He has the tricks and with so much quality around him, I'm sure he'd add his bit to the overall pie.

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 3:27 am

propdavid_london wrote:What did people think about Ben Teo? I haven't heard much about the Leinster centre pairing in the match reports.
Will he drop straight into the England side or is there a bit of overhype?

Well they got their butts kicked here by Bundi-aki and Henshaw but I like Teo, he's been one of Leinster's better backs in the last 2 seasons and a bit underrated by his own fans.

He's a bit limited but runs hard lines and is an excellent off loader, which you'd expect as an ex RL forward. He's no Sonny Bill but still learning - hard to say how far he'll go.

by propdavid_london Tue May 31, 2016 3:31 am

Cheers guys, sounds promising.

by clivemcl Tue May 31, 2016 3:46 am

So here I am, enjoying the underdog story, watching videos of Connacht celebrations. When I see a video of some of the Connacht players and fans at a pub/beer garden singing 'The Fields Of Athenry'.

Now, I'm no real hater of the song. At Ireland games, I wouldn't sing much of it as I just don't know the words. But I like it. It's rousing.

Then I hear something I was unaware of. Sorry if this implies I've been living under a rock. But there appears to be a very well known and widely participated in chant withn the chorus of 'IRA'.

It even appears in the video that Bundee Aki also enjoys chanting along with this.

I thought we were getting past all this. Especially in rugby circles. Perhaps I'm naive but I'm a little shocked to see sectarianism exists in rugby in Galway.

I just wanted to share in Connacht's well-deserved celebrations - not to see crowds cheering about something that was very sad and violent and mostly well away from the doorstep of Galway, but brought a lot of pain and anguish in the North. Hardly something to chant about while celebrating a great sporting achievement against another southern province?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbfaxiDuKK8

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 4:29 am

Clive, a starting point might be looking up the words of the song. It isn't exactly a song dedicated to nice things like celebrating a sporting win. It's a hard song - a lament and quite political.

I've always wondered about the appropriateness of it as a sporting song - but merely because it is more a lament than a song of joy.

Anyway, in a diverse country with diverse opinions on the meaning of history, it's to be expected that some would choose to link old history with more recent history to a song dealing with history.

We hope we're busy putting the past behind us in ways, yes ... but I don't think we can or should expect the various perceptions of history to suddenly disappear. Some boys still put Republican snippets into celebration songs and some boys still paint pavements blue and red.

by clivemcl Tue May 31, 2016 4:44 am

Yea, I may not know the words Fly, but I'm familiar enough with the context and the era. Apart from the total irrelevance to sport in general (more so when you beat another southern province), its also out of whack with the IRA campaign. But I can see some debating that.

But for me, the thing that bothers me is that it's not sung in most cases as a lament as you call it. Its sung in a spirit of joy quite often, especially as we see in this video. This almost bothers me more. The song context itself deserves not to be trivialised or used light-heartedly, nor the addition of a terrorist group who regardless of the morality of the overall ideology, were certainly responsible for cold blooded murder of innocents.

You also worry, what narrative has been spun to somebody like Bundee Aki. Or perhaps, he's completely unaware how serious the thing is he sings along to (or is he leading it?)

It's surely akin to Andrew Trimble leading a crowd in a bar in Belfast in a rendition of 'The Sash'. The difference being, that the northern media would certainly be shocked, or report it. But in the south it's seen as perfectly normal, or so it seems.

by mrsuperclear Tue May 31, 2016 5:00 am

clivemcl wrote:Yea, I may not know the words Fly, but I'm familiar enough with the context and the era. Apart from the total irrelevance to sport in general (more so when you beat another southern province), its also out of whack with the IRA campaign. But I can see some debating that.

But for me, the thing that bothers me is that it's not sung in most cases as a lament as you call it. Its sung in a spirit of joy quite often, especially as we see in this video. This almost bothers me more. The song context itself deserves not to be trivialised or used light-heartedly, nor the addition of a terrorist group who regardless of the morality of the overall ideology, were certainly responsible for cold blooded murder of innocents.

You also worry, what narrative has been spun to somebody like Bundee Aki. Or perhaps, he's completely unaware how serious the thing is he sings along to (or is he leading it?)

It's surely akin to Andrew Trimble leading a crowd in a bar in Belfast in a rendition of 'The Sash'. The difference being, that the northern media would certainly be shocked, or report it. But in the south it's seen as perfectly normal, or so it seems.

Actually fully agree with you, always cringe when I hear people add the Sinn Fein/IRA sound bites. Although it is less and less these days, I haven't heard it in years in truth.

To be honest Clive, they're idiots, even the ones saying it probably aren't remotely political in the sense that they'd vote for Sinn Fein etc, they're just adding it as they think it's cool...

I would say in the video it seems to just be a handful, but I completely get where you're coming from that this gives a very negative impression and not something that rugby should be associated with on our island given the fact the Irish team represents people with various belief's and creeds. I still genuinely believe that the people singing it are just idiots being idiots and we'll always have them on our island unfortunately

by clivemcl Tue May 31, 2016 5:50 am

Indeed, I think it's just people who do the done thing without giving it much though. Similar in some ways to the incorrect flying of Northern ireland flags at ulster games, and tricolors at Ireland rugby matches.

Why can't people just be sensible, appropriate and inclusive??

by SecretFly Tue May 31, 2016 5:52 am

mrsuperclear wrote:

they're idiots, even the ones saying it probably aren't remotely political in the sense that they'd vote for Sinn Fein etc, they're just adding it as they think it's cool...

.... the people singing it are just idiots being idiots and we'll always have them on our island unfortunately

by Guest Tue May 31, 2016 6:32 am

SecretFly wrote:Clive, a starting point might be looking up the words of the song. It isn't exactly a song dedicated to nice things like celebrating a sporting win. It's a hard song - a lament and quite political.

I've always wondered about the appropriateness of it as a sporting song - but merely because it is more a lament than a song of joy.

Anyway, in a diverse country with diverse opinions on the meaning of history, it's to be expected that some would choose to link old history with more recent history to a song dealing with history.

We hope we're busy putting the past behind us in ways, yes ... but I don't think we can or should expect the various perceptions of history to suddenly disappear. Some boys still put Republican snippets into celebration songs and some boys still paint pavements blue and red.

I think how some people link the recent with the old causes a skewed sense of history. Some tend to view Irish history through the lens of recent history, or from a Nationalist/Unionist viewpoint, rather than trying to understand that history from a starting point of around the 16th century, and before the Irish rebellion (1641). That is why 'The Troubles' were so confusing to so many. The real history of Ireland is a mass of seeming contradiction and it takes a bit of study to bring clarity.

I like The Fields. It's a good song about a very important event in Irish history, and specifically about an indifferent attitude to those suffering and dying during the Irish famine. A famine that effected all four Provinces, and people from both sides.
Trevelyan's remarks (basically saying that the dying deserved it, and that the Famine itself was an economic solution) were crass, and symptomatic of an attitude that led to so many deaths. That attitude also existed in the Scottish Famine, although the Scottish Famine was on a much smaller scale.

It's unfortunate that the bigoted hijack terrible historical events for their own twisted agendas, or mindless sectarian bias. They really are robbing the graves of those who suffered, and often bastardising history itself, in doing so.

by marty2086 Tue May 31, 2016 6:41 am

clive to be fair I just looked up the clip as the ones Id heard I didn't hear it and it seems to be the one idiot whos either filming it or beside him and is looking for a reaction.

Of all the 3/4 clips I saw Aki was singing the words that were meant to be sung

by Guest Tue May 31, 2016 6:52 am

You're right, Marty. It was just the one idiot.

by **RDW** Tue May 31, 2016 6:54 am

Well this has all been very educational - I usually fear the worst when these kind of things are brought up on this forum but this has been discussed in a sensible manner for a nice change.

I had no idea the context of the song, but in a country with Rangers/Celtic and Flower of Scotland as a national anthem we have plenty songs of our own that people take to mean what they will, completely ignoring historical significance!

by St John The Enforcer Tue May 31, 2016 7:23 am

clivemcl wrote:
It's surely akin to Andrew Trimble leading a crowd in a bar in Belfast in a rendition of 'The Sash'. The difference being, that the northern media would certainly be shocked, or report it. But in the south it's seen as perfectly normal, or so it seems.

Many things take on a different tone when done north of the border.

Decking your house out in green white and orange in the south just means that you are supporting a soccer/gaa/olympic/whatever team. Or perhaps that you are particularly patriotic.

Decking your house out in union jacks in England might mean the same or that you like the monarchy or many other things (most of them quite innocent)

Do either one north of the border and you are saying something entirely different.

Not to condone anyone shouting IRA but you are correct. Because most of "the troubles" went on north of the border these things are less controversial here. The term IRA was coined a century ago and was involved in our recently commemorated independence struggle. So if he added "but not the Provisional IRA of the 70s 80s and 90s" would that make it ok? Probably not. But you get the point.

I would happily sing the sash with Trimble in a pub in Dublin for the laugh. Possibly not in a pub in Belfast though......

by clivemcl Tue May 31, 2016 7:34 am

I think, that you can hear one or two very clearly because they are closer to the camera, but if you look at the others - there mouths and arms (Aki in particular) - you can definitely see there is participation in the chanting between the lines of the songs. Without doubt.

But yes, I'm glad this didn't turn into anything heated. I genuinely didn't think regular folk from the west of Ireland would chant this. It was my opinion that throughout the troubles maybe a certain amount of people in the south backed the IRA, but I kind of thought in more modern times that those who sympathised with the IRA weould be a very tiny minority compared to in the North.

As with all things, education and willingness to be wrong are key. I'm a northern irish man with no desire to join a united Ireland. And yet, through education I can quite openly admit that the british rule was at times brutal, and at times very cold and heartless. I can also admit that it was wrong all through the 20th century when catholics were discriminated against in the North.

But, the IRA decided that appropriate action would include shooting and bombing unarmed men with no direct connection to military forces. Anyone who ever wishes to convince me of a United Ireland will never do so whilst maintaining the belief that the IRA were justified in their war.

And quite frankly, I'm disgusted by anyone who can jovially sing about them.

by marty2086 Tue May 31, 2016 7:44 am

clive, there are other videos of Aki singing he doesn't know half the words and the lines hes waving his arms to is 'let those free birds fly' a line that's often sung

If you think he was participating in it then you should contact Connacht with a complaint.

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 7:49 am

Bundi-Aki in pro provo chant shocker....wait until the Sunday life pick up on this scoop.

This could be the biggest story in Galway since laptop-gate. angel

by marty2086 Tue May 31, 2016 7:52 am

rodders wrote:Bundi-Aki in pro provo chant shocker....wait until the Sunday life pick up on this scoop.

This could be the biggest story in Galway since laptop-gate.

You'll have Willie Frazer marching on the Sportsground and picketing outside Ravenhill when Connacht come to town Chief

Pro 12 Grand Final 2016 - Leinster v Connacht - Page 3 3559488474

by **rodders** Tue May 31, 2016 7:57 am

They'll have to smuggle poor Bundi out the back door.

Reminds me of the time when Mickey Rourke was showing off his IRA tattoo around bars in East Belfast....

by marty2086 Tue May 31, 2016 8:04 am

That would annoy Willie more, he hates guys who use the back door

by Seagultaf Tue May 31, 2016 8:06 am

Fantastic game, Connacht were absolutely on fire in the first half, absolutely brilliant offloading game a joy to watch.

Well done to the Leicester City of Rugby Union!

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