Another Drive4show 'Anything goes' thread

[beninho]

First topic message reminder :

Having concerns about EU immigration does not make you a far right nutter or xenophobe. Mclaren, what is your knowledge on EU immigration, what dealings do you have with it? Can you see why people may have concerns about it?

Unless your concerns about how we can offer a more humane immigration system then you are xenophobe.  If you are worried about the geographical location of where someone popped out of a uterus then you are not thinking rationally.

And no, I cannot see why anyone would have any issue with the current levels of immigration to/from the UK.  Unless as I said above you are worried about how some people coming here are treated.

Do you not agree that an expanding population due to EU immigration, would lead to an extra burden on the NHS, housing, benefit and other public services aswell as the rise in rents?

Do you think that EU immigration, where people get fake payslips in order to claim benefits, working tax credits child tax credits and housing assistance? Or people that work minimal hours and tdo not pay any tax or nino who then can claim housing and benefit assistance? Or people that illegally overstay in the country, in order to achieve a loophole and gain housing or benefit assistance.

All of these are ongoing issues, though you did not answer my question in the first place.

[pedro]

Take a good look at Sam: Does he look like he would do something dodgy?

[super_realist]

Third party players are no longer legal according to FA rules, so finding and explaining a loophole around it, is obviously a bit of an embarrassment for the manger of the FA's football team to be explaining ways in which he can get round it.

Allardyce is a consummate idiot. Anyone with half a brain in his position would just keep quiet, not meet with anyone and concentrate on getting his shambolic football team to improve by 5%.

He's deserves everything which comes his way as a result of this.

[beninho]

Now they have released that Sam called the HMRC corrupt and complained about Tax. They really dont have much on him, if he gets the sack over this its a joke.

[beninho]

I have also not read or seen any advice he has actually given on how to get around the third party rules, the only mention I see is Valencia who he says West Ham signed fully.

[navyblueshorts]

This is pathetic. I'm assuming ben is right re. what's actually been shown/said. So he took the p of Hodgson's speech (a bit sad, but hey ho) and called Gary Neville out for getting too big for his boots. Whatever. So what?

You base your assumptions on assumptions of what someone else has said? It seems it's more than just taking the p out of Roy and Neville

OK, cite your (respectable) sources please?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37479135

And? That article says chuff all that's conclusive or damning.

[Davie]

During the meeting with the businessmen, who were undercover reporters, it is alleged Allardyce said it was "not a problem" to bypass the rules and he knew of agents who were "doing it all the time".

[super_realist]

You're missing the point Navy, for the England manager to even be talking to an outside agency about knowing ways round the FA implemented ban on third party ownership is damning enough.

Allardyce is a naïve moron. He's the England manager, he shouldn't be talking to anyone about stuff like this.

[beninho]

During the meeting with the businessmen, who were undercover reporters, it is alleged Allardyce said it was "not a problem" to bypass the rules and he knew of agents who were "doing it all the time".

So he knows its done, he said it was done by signing a player. He has not given out ways around it, just said it happens. Unless I have missed something.

[super_realist]

During the meeting with the businessmen, who were undercover reporters, it is alleged Allardyce said it was "not a problem" to bypass the rules and he knew of agents who were "doing it all the time".

So he knows its done, he said it was done by signing a player. He has not given out ways around it, just said it happens. Unless I have missed something.

For goodness sake, is no one getting this? HE'S THE ENGLAND BLOODY MANAGER. If he knows it goes on, and he knows who is doing it, he should be talking to the FA about it and making sure it stops, not talking to someone in some clandestine meeting.

He's a big fat, stupid oaf.

[beninho]

It really does not appear to have been a clandestine meeting. He was in a hotel or restaurant for a number of hours. Should of turned down any meetings clearly, but nothing to make me think he knew what he was going to be asked. It seems he thought he was going for an easy money motivational speech trip to Singapore.

[super_realist]

If the FA are looking into it, then yes, it's clandestine, otherwise they would have known about it. He really shouldn't be involved with anything that isn't sanctioned by the FA or FA business.

For a team that already frequently makes headlines for the wrong reasons, you'd think a supposedly astute manager would have the brains not to even entertain the possibility of something which could at best be misconstrued.

[beninho]

I saw something that said about 10 other managers have been caught up in this, being tricked into a meeting about motivational speaking, and then hit with questions. Is football dodgy, yep, but it was a hell of a lot more dodgy years ago.

[super_realist]

Then why aren't these managers refusing to answer these questions.
They ought to know better. They go through bloody FA training to be able to hold managers jobs.

I've no sympathy for either the FA or managers in this respect.

[navyblueshorts]

During the meeting with the businessmen, who were undercover reporters, it is alleged Allardyce said it was "not a problem" to bypass the rules and he knew of agents who were "doing it all the time".

So he knows its done, he said it was done by signing a player. He has not given out ways around it, just said it happens. Unless I have missed something.

For goodness sake, is no one getting this? HE'S THE ENGLAND BLOODY MANAGER. If he knows it goes on, and he knows who is doing it, he should be talking to the FA about it and making sure it stops,  not talking to someone in some clandestine meeting.

He's a big fat, stupid oaf.

The first paragraph, I'll give you. Given his position, it's not great. Sackable? Not so sure.

The second comment re. the fact you think he's fat and an oaf is really getting to be a tiresome refrain.

[super_realist]

It's a perfectly good description of him, can you imagine Morinho, Klopp, Wenger, Ferguson or any proper manager getting involved in something as tacky as this? Not a chance.

He's an oaf for sure, demonstrably stupid by being duped and physically he's fat too, so it is a perfectly good description.

The FA are always going on about morals and being transparent so for Fat Sam to even get involved in anything like this is hysterically stupid when they constantly criticise UEFA and FIFA.

[raycastleunited]

Well answered Super.

Although I'm leaning towards Beninho's viewpoint on this issue, I think you've summed it up pretty well above.

[super_realist]

It's probably somewhere between the two Ray, I agree it's a fairly minor indiscretion on Allardyce's part, but given the position he's put the FA in, which absolutely has to be whiter than white and 100% transparent, it would be hypocritical of the FA to brush this under the carpet, and I feel Allardyce is going to pay for it, regardless how trivial it is, the FA can't be seen to condone it or excuse it given their holier than thou stance with other organisations.

A correspondent on 5live just said that it doesn't look good for Allardyce and it would be a 50/50 call.

The England pantomime continues.

[westisbest]

https://twitter.com/bbcsporf/status/780757420427636736

[beninho]

Massive overreaction, and he will lose his job. He has been stupid and greedy, but essentially duped into a meeting which he thought was about something else. He got offered a chunk ofmoney for not much work and got involved when he shouldn't have.

Oh well gareth southgate...give me strength.

He should have been sacked for drinking pints of budweiser. Horrible stuff.

[kwinigolfer]

He's gone.

[super_realist]

Massive overreaction, and he will lose his job. He has been stupid and greedy, but essentially duped into a meeting which he thought was about something else. He got offered a chunk ofmoney for not much work and got involved when he shouldn't have.

Oh well gareth southgate...give me strength.

He should have been sacked for drinking pints of budweiser. Horrible stuff.

It's not an overreaction given the FA stance on UEFA and FIFA, he absolutely had to go if they wanted to save face and not be seen as hypocritical. It's his own stupidity and greed which put him in the position.

Gareth Southgate will do no worse, remember England aren't a team that are going to challenge for anything , so it wouldn't matter if you had a stuffed dummy in charge.

[beninho]

Gareth southgate doesnt want the job though.

I still dont see that whats come out should have lead to him losing the job. Unless we have more to come. Hes not done anything remotely corrupt. The fa are clowns. Its a cowpat situation. Im not a fan of bfs but he doesnt deserve this, he was stitched up initially and a bit stupid to have gone along with the discussions,thats all though. He hasnt agreed anything or shown a way to break rules.

[super_realist]

It's simply that it makes the FA look murky and secretive. It's nothing to do with how minor it is, it's that he would be engaged in such a conversation while an England Manager, it's not becoming of the position and i'm sure the FA will have told him to keep everything England and FA related. Most likely we aren't being told the whole story, but it's easy to see the FA are wanting to maintain their moral stance and because Allardyce has transgressed what is seen to be Manager behaviour, he had to go. At least the FA won't have to pay up his absurdly over the top salary.

I'm not surprised that Southgate wouldn't want it. You'd only take the England job for the money, certainly not for the football or the nonsense that goes with the job.

Take an English guy out of the championship, pay him £1m and let him get on with it.

[beninho]

I would be shocked if the next guy gets lessthan 3m a year. Who we got, the walking heart attack that is bernard cribbens I mean steve bruce, or........about it really.

[super_realist]

The FA would be confirming their collective idiotness if they paid the next guy the same £3m.
Not even proper international managers for proper teams get that.

[beninho]

The fa are maybe the richest association. If you cant negotiate a massive salary off them yove fked up!

[super_realist]

It's not a position that should command such a ridiculous salary when your team are perpetual losers, that's part of the problem for their malaise. If they provided a large bonus based on performance, then yes. If that was a failing company and they paid their CEO such a salary it would be thrown out by the shareholders.

I agree, both the FA manager and the FA themselves need massive reform.

[Davie]

I think we owe massive thanks to beninho and NBS for their scoop that BFS was innocent

Seriously, I'm surprised the FA have had the balls to do the right thing

Venables got the boot for business dealings, not football performances. 'Arry didn't get the job for the same reasons. How BFS got the gig I'll never know to kudos to the FA for fast action

[kwinigolfer]

It must cast doubt as to the extent of the due diligence that the FA conducted prior to BFS's appointment. Difficult to believe that his batallions of foreign legionnaires didn't come with some dodgy associations.

[beninho]

I think we owe massive thanks to beninho and NBS for their scoop that BFS was innocent    

Seriously, I'm surprised the FA have had the balls to do the right thing

Venables got the boot for business dealings, not football performances. 'Arry didn't get the job for the same reasons. How BFS got the gig I'll never know to kudos to the FA for fast action

Never said innocent, just that I dont see enough in it for a sacking. And I still stand by that. It seems an over the top reaction. But there may be more to come. It seems that a newspaper has got a manager sacked for front page headlines.

[westisbest]

I would be shocked if the next guy gets lessthan 3m a year.  Who we got, the walking heart attack that is bernard cribbens I mean steve bruce, or........about it really.

Rumour that Bruce to take over at Derby.

[pedro]

I'd take the job for £2m

[I'm never wrong]

Sacked a manager who had a 100% record?

[JAS]

What a circus!! This is the downside of so much money being involved in football. Where there is excess money there will be corruption born out of greed. To me that is a very very simple equation.

It may not sound or even be the crime of the century but when your employers are mounting a crusade against the corruption and shady dealings by governing bodies (FIFA & UEFA) then high profile key employees must be seen to be whiter than white. Unfortunately big Sam (and quite a few others) have been steeped in the kind of activity that has led to his downfall for so long that it would feel fairly normal behaviour. That therefore also makes his judgement questionable.

As for the Telegraph (this time) and the rest of the press, you have to ask what their agenda is....they bleat and bleat when England don't do as well as their ridiculously high expectations while at the same time they continually try undermine every single manager that has taken the poison chalice. I find that quite bizarre but incredibly amusing....long may it continue, who's next??

[navyblueshorts]

I think we owe massive thanks to beninho and NBS for their scoop that BFS was innocent    

Seriously, I'm surprised the FA have had the balls to do the right thing

Venables got the boot for business dealings, not football performances. 'Arry didn't get the job for the same reasons. How BFS got the gig I'll never know to kudos to the FA for fast action

Yet another of your "make the facts fit your preconceptions" idiocy. Clearly, that's your default approach to everything.

[navyblueshorts]

What a circus!! This is the downside of so much money being involved in football. Where there is excess money there will be corruption born out of greed. To me that is a very very simple equation.

It may not sound or even be the crime of the century but when your employers are mounting a crusade against the corruption and shady dealings by governing bodies (FIFA & UEFA) then high profile key employees must be seen to be whiter than white. Unfortunately big Sam (and quite a few others) have been steeped in the kind of activity that has led to his downfall for so long that it would feel fairly normal behaviour. That therefore also makes his judgement questionable.

As for the Telegraph (this time) and the rest of the press, you have to ask what their agenda is....they bleat and bleat when England don't do as well as their ridiculously high expectations while at the same time they continually try undermine every single manager that has taken the poison chalice. I find that quite bizarre but incredibly amusing....long may it continue, who's next??

Agree 100% with this, especially the last paragraph. They must have set out, as soon as it was confirmed Allardyce got the gig, to trap him. Pretty sh!tty behaviour. In any case, they don't give a XXXX for England football, as long as what they do sells papers.
I don't know who'd take the job now and, if they did, why they'd agree to any contract that said they had to say anything to any press. Maybe with the possible exception of announcing a squad/team.
As for candidates, Pardew maybe?

Re. Allardyce and this £400k, there's a lot of talk about this being 'grubby' given his salary but why wouldn't he consider it? £400k for, what? Four talks? And only after/if he cleared it with the FA? Those saying this is 'grubby' or 'greedy' are over-reacting.

[pedro]

How BFS got the gig I'll never know

Simple. He gave them 50 grand.

[Davie]

I think we owe massive thanks to beninho and NBS for their scoop that BFS was innocent    

Seriously, I'm surprised the FA have had the balls to do the right thing

Venables got the boot for business dealings, not football performances. 'Arry didn't get the job for the same reasons. How BFS got the gig I'll never know to kudos to the FA for fast action

Yet another of your "make the facts fit your preconceptions" idiocy. Clearly, that's your default approach to everything.

How is it idiocy when the facts DID fit the preconceptions? The FA decided his position was untenable - that was my preconception

[raycastleunited]

How BFS got the gig I'll never know

Simple. He gave them 50 grand.

haha

[raycastleunited]

Telegraph team must have had a grudge / agenda against BFS. This kind of operation took a while to co-ordinate, I imagine they had a brain storming session to develop ideas to force him out on the day he was was appointed.

[raycastleunited]

I think super summed it up pretty well: you wouldn't see Wenger or Guardiola getting into such a position. You could excuse a young manager starting out to make this kind of mistake, but not an experienced 61 year old who has reached the pinnacle of his profession. It's tough at the top, the £3m salary carries high expectations both on and off the pitch.

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