Nike to Pull out of Golf Equipment Market

First topic message reminder :

Though deserved a thread of its own

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36971507

No clubs, balls and bags anymore but continuing to make apparel.


Some thoughts so far;

SmithersJones wrote:Excuse the golf talk but Nike have announced they're pulling out of the golf equipment business. Wonder if Rory will be playing his old Titleist clubs and more pertinently his old Scotty next time out?

GPB wrote:Nike getting out the Golf Equipment business.  Will still manufacture clothing including shoes.

sirbenson wrote:The Tiger Woods affect....Charl Schwartzel's mid season move of brand makes sense now, apparently Mcilroy was practicing last week with a Scotty Cameron putter

With Nike and Adidas leaving the golf market what does it say about the game?  

Will the Nike players be loving that they can use different equipment now?

How many majors would Tiger have won if he could have used the proV1?    :whistle:  

I doubt a Scotty will help Rory too much.


Steiny on Tiger

Steiny wrote:"Clearly he and I need to be thinking about a change on the hard goods side," Steinberg told GolfChannel.com via phone. "He and I have discussed at length the plan for that, and feel comfortable with what we're going to do going forward. But clearly, there's likely to be a change."

"He's been a longtime icon of Nike Golf and that's not going to change one ounce. He'll remain a loyal and enthusiastic icon of Nike."

Mizuno golf touting for business

‏@Golf_Mizuno wrote:@TigerWoods @McIlroyRory @BKoepka @Kevin_Chappell @JhonattanVegas @russhenleygolf @themichellewie --Team Mizuno now holding open tryouts

Ok, never really look at Callaway stuff so don't know anything about them. Always thought the irons looked a bit clumsy.


My irons came out in early 00's.

Every club maker makes "clumsy" looking club Mac, but they all make fine looking clubs too.

The Callaway Apex Forged are tremendous looking, as are the Callaway Tour Prototype

McLaren wrote: Anyone know the History of Hogan golf, did it really have much to do with the man himself and was it spun out of one of the major manufacturers?

I don't know much at all but there is a writer/contributor on Golfwrx that used to work at Hogan (I think in club design). From the articles on there Hogan had a lot to do with it. IIRC he signed off on absolutely everything before it was released for manufacture and sale.

McLaren wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Black man - hoodies. Unfortunate. You could indeed have chosen T-shirts, shorts etc...but you didn't. Why not? Guess you're not perfect after all, but live and learn eh?

I see.  No doubt this is a wind up (trolling Davie?) but I did not know that black people were particularly associated with hoodies.  Must be a generational thing, everyone in my generation wears hoodies regardless of colour, sex, nationality.

Interesting. Not everything everyone says is meant the way it's taken. Try applying that to your interpretations of others' remarks in future maybe? Maybe Sergio isn't quite what you think either.

Are you really going to make the argument that suggesting a sportsperson promotes nike hoodies and sales is comparable to suggesting you would cook an African American some fried chicken?

Anyway, I would be interested to hear where you got that it was "Unfortunate" to suggest black sportspeople wear hoodies?

Or as I suspect, are you on the wind up?

I don't think it's a wind up at all - you've exhibited the same stereotypical characteristics that you accuse Sergio etc. of doing

As I said initially if someone could explain whether or not a stereotype of black people wearing hoodies even exists then the conversation can begin. I know for example that my dad would mock me for wearing a hoodie because he associated it with neds, but what has that got to do with black people?

Yes it exists. I don't know how to explain it though

I think hoodies became popular with and are/were associated with the rise of hip hop. Hip hop is associate with, and popularised by, mainly, black people. Those are facts whether you like them or not Mac.

Your hoodie/black person stereotyping is almost identical in essence to Sergio's fried chicken/black person stereotyping.
Ironic.
Probably better for you to just let this one go than try to wriggle out of it on some 'I didn't know about hoodies' argument

In the absence of any scientific studies of hoodies, I reluctantly give you Wikipedia as the 'generally accepted view'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoodie

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hip_hop

You claim it exists, can you point me towards a link that confirms what you claim? So far all we have is Navy trying to troll me and you backing him up. Hardly enough for me to believe you.

McLaren wrote:Are you really going to make the argument that suggesting a sportsperson promotes nike hoodies and sales is comparable to suggesting you would cook an African American some fried chicken?

Anyway, I would be interested to hear where you got that it was "Unfortunate" to suggest black sportspeople wear hoodies?

Or as I suspect, are you on the wind up?

Mac, I couldn't make up what you're now saying. The idea that you'd pillory Sergio for his comment but fail to see that you're just as guilty here is too funny for words (apart from these...) .

Just as guilty? Maybe if you ignore intention and accept that you are in fact correct that my comment was a problem.


Sergio intentionally makes an obviously racist comment.

I make comment with no racist intent which you claim is an obscure racial slur.

Do you really consider those the same thing?

Your comment was as linked to racial stereotyping as Sergio's, Mac - as I mentioned above. There is no way in the world that can be denied.
Whether either you or Sergio meant either are equally as likely / unlikely. Are they not?

I should add that I don't think you meant to make any such deliberate link but, hey, things aren't always black (can I use that term?) and white in terms of what was meant, when something was said. You need to remove your SJW-tinted specs occasionally.

McLaren wrote:Just as guilty? Maybe if you ignore intention and accept that you are in fact correct that my comment was a problem.


Sergio intentionally makes an obviously racist comment.

I make comment with no racist intent which you claim is an obscure racial slur.

Do you really consider those the same thing?

When you're in a hole, stop digging Mac. You have NO evidence that Sergio MEANT to make a racist remark. Get off your damned stupid high horse; you're just making yourself look all the more daft.

navyblueshorts wrote:Get off your damned stupid high horse; you're just making yourself look all the more daft.

Impossible

Davie wrote:

navyblueshorts wrote:Get off your damned stupid high horse; you're just making yourself look all the more daft.

Impossible

mac would do well in Olympic dressage.

Scenario 1: Spanish golfer makes comment re fried chicken with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I answered a question that was clearly made towards me as a joke with a silly remark, but in no way was the comment meant in a racist manner"

Scenario 2: Scottish poster makes comment re hoodies with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I make comment with no racist intent"

Spot the difference? Mac?

Navy

I have been trying to find something on the net about black people and hoodies stereotype and can't find anything. Any chance you could point me in the right direction? Thanks.

See mine above. Wasn't hard to find. It's not a scientific study. I'm sure you'll say that is what's necessary.
I knew you always ignored the posts that didn't fit your stance but this is taking it to another level

In case anyone has come late to the conversation, here is the post that Navy and Davie are convinced is racist.

McLaren wrote:Do nike sign people like Tiger and Rory to gain from the golf market or are they like Federer, Lance (before his issues), Serena who are signed to add to the overall image of superiority these athletes give nike.  So the brand as a whole is associated with the best players without needing to benefit from the market of a particular sport.  Tiger probably sold more shoes and hoodies than he did golf clubs or balls.

Nice try guys.

MustPuttBetter wrote:Scenario 1: Spanish golfer makes comment re fried chicken with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I answered a question that was clearly made towards me as a joke with a silly remark, but in no way was the comment meant in a racist manner"

Scenario 2: Scottish poster makes comment re hoodies with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I make comment with no racist intent"

Spot the difference? Mac?

Mac, re the question in my post quoted - can you tell me the difference?
If no response to this - and I don't blame you -  I will bow out in acceptance that you just ignore the bits you don't like and then claim you 'won' the argument

Mustputt

Sorry I missed your wiki links, just had a read.


As for your question, it doesn't come close to reflecting the situation. As you will see I have posted my original comment above. Maybe you could try using what I actually said to formulate a question.

Which part of my summation of the situation is inaccurate?
What did you say or not say that I have alleged you to have?

It's simple stuff MPB, use my original comment to construct a very specific question.

Your task is to argue that the post

"Do nike sign people like Tiger and Rory to gain from the golf market or are they like Federer, Lance (before his issues), Serena who are signed to add to the overall image of superiority these athletes give nike. So the brand as a whole is associated with the best players without needing to benefit from the market of a particular sport. Tiger probably sold more shoes and hoodies than he did golf clubs or balls"

is a racist remark comparable to Garcia using the well known "fried chicken" racial slur.

When asked if he would have Tiger round for dinner at the US open garcia replied with

"We'll have him 'round every night, We will serve fried chicken."


And remember we already had Zoeller make the following comment when asked about Tiger winning the Masters "You pat him on the back and say congratulations and enjoy it and tell him not serve fried chicken next year. Got it? Or collard greens or whatever the hell they serve."


Good luck.

No Mac that's not my task. The way to complete 'your task' is not to set me a 'task'. Simple stuff (as you put it) as that attempt at avoidance is.

Your task is -

Scenario 1: Spanish golfer makes comment re fried chicken with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I answered a question that was clearly made towards me as a joke with a silly remark, but in no way was the comment meant in a racist manner"

Scenario 2: Scottish poster makes comment re hoodies with reference to black golfer. Called racist. He responds "I make comment with no racist intent"

What's the difference?

Good luck

I should add and applaud your consistency though.

"If you are to have a valid point here, you must use my original comment to construct a very specific question....."

It's classic Mac.
But sadly for you, err, no , incorrect

surely you accept that "you must use my original comment", if you are not then you are talking a fictional event.

And hence why your question is redundant, you have come up with two scenario's forgetting one doesn't reflect reality.

Fictional?

You didn't make a comment re hoodies with reference to black golfer?
You weren't called out be making a racist comment?
Or you did not respond "I make comment with no racist intent"?

I'm losing track of which bit your trying to wriggle out on? Please clarify. Using my original comment as reference.
I suspect you're losing track too

You didn't make a comment re hoodies with reference to black golfer?

No. (certainly not how you would wish it to have been made)

You weren't called out be making a racist comment?

I was called out by people whose opinions on such matters I have no respect for. If Kwini, shotrock, beninho, GBP, Grumps etc (really anyone who knows what they are talking about) or even Super had reason to beleive I made a racist comment I would listen to what they had to say. But if you think that just because Navy, Davie and yourself have decided to prove a point using a non example about racism I will except you are very naive.

Or you did not respond "I make comment with no racist intent"?

I proposed that even if it could be shown that what I posted was racist (which so far has not happened) it was clearly through ignorance and lack of education on the matter. Something sergio cannot claim unless he missed the Fuzzy incident and paid no attention to US current affairs while living there for 10+ years.

So if Sergio -
a) didn't make his comment how you want/think it was made
b) has no respect for your opinion and
c) says he basically didn't mean it, was ignorant

Then you must accept that his comment was as non racist as yours?
(Hint: I already know your answer...)

The point, as has been made a few times, is how ironic

The bit I like most is 'I do not have respect for the opinions of those who have not agreed with me'. 'Of course I would have respect for the opinions of any of those who have not disagreed with me'

That's got to be an 11 out of 10 on the 'up my own arse' scale. What is 'up my own arse' measured in?

mustputt

You are complicating this way too much. All I want is some evidence that it could be considered a racist post. Provide that and your job is done.

You have had some Mac. As well as a few people tell you that hoodies/hip hop culture/black people are linked in the same way as fried chicken. Very coincidentally, you don't like those opinions......
No matter what is provided you will say you want something else. It's from page 1 of the 'playground argument' manual.

Nothing about this is complicated. But I do accept your need to paint it as such if you have any hope of wriggling out of this.

You are a champion. In your mind that is, obviously

MPB

It might come as a great shock to you but the horse Poopie that comes out of you and Navy hardly rivals the southern poverty law centre or anti defamation league when it comes to deciding if a post is racist.

Coming from Scotland's uppermost ranking social justice warrior who is also a racist, that is hurtful indeed

Just for the record, the hoody doesn't have its origins in black culture or music, but I would say certain parts of society, not necessarily black, more lower class and low education tend to have adopted it, so inner city sink estates would be the home of the hoody.

The links between the modern hoody, hip hop culture and black people are as strong as those between friend chicken and black people.
It's essentially the same 'link', i.e. association.
This is undeniable

Super

Exactly, the stereotype about the hoodie I admit to being fully aware of is that it is worn by ned or chav like characters in more deprived areas. If anything it is a very white stereotype as the hoodie wearing, white trackie bottom tucked into sock type tends to be a white male from a council estate.

I think it spreads over all ethnicities Mac, but wearing it in the "hood up" style is endemic among a particular social class.

Mac - you are muddying the waters as usual.

Personally I don't think you are a racist. You made a comment that *could* be construed as racist, but I don't for one moment believe you meant it that way.

The point is, many of us here believe that Sergio's comment was also with no racist intent. What we are doing here is pointing out the similarity of the comments, but you still persist in claiming it as FACT that Sergio made an intentionally racist comment

Davie

I guess "construed" is the vital word here. It is pretty easy to construe what sergio said as racist (especially in US setting) but the contortions required to construe my comment as racist seem totally unjustified.

Without better information I will not waver from this position, especially as the US posters made it clear that you could not spend the amount of time sergio has in the US and not realise the connotation of "fried chicken" in reference to african americans.

We my just have to leave this here until more info comes to light as the debate is become sour and quite unpleasant.

What more info are you waiting for?

Again you are stating things as you see them as FACTS. I still see a strong parallel between what you said and what Sergio said. You're either both racist or both misunderstood. Can't be one and not the other

The shoes are rather getting overlooked here. Sergio didn't offer (insert dish that isn't associated with a particular ethnic group) and fried chicken.

I do think Mac is racist.
He was quite vociferous re the Sergio thing with no room for doubt. I don't see why this should be any different.

I think this is all part of the 'Mac' persona unraveling, Mav/Fader style #iamMac

Davie

"you're either both racist or both misunderstood"

Or Sergio's comment is definitely racist and my post is neither racist or misunderstood?

Smithers

I would argue that the whole post has been overlooked to fit some people agenda's on here.

McLaren wrote:In case anyone has come late to the conversation, here is the post that Navy and Davie are convinced is racist.

McLaren wrote:Do nike sign people like Tiger and Rory to gain from the golf market or are they like Federer, Lance (before his issues), Serena who are signed to add to the overall image of superiority these athletes give nike.  So the brand as a whole is associated with the best players without needing to benefit from the market of a particular sport.  Tiger probably sold more shoes and hoodies than he did golf clubs or balls.

Nice try guys.

...and still he's digging. Hung up by his own petard. How embarrassing for you Mac.

McLaren wrote:...is a racist remark comparable to Garcia using the well known "fried chicken" racial slur...

Are you willfully daft or what? Loads of people didn't know about that bloody remark and its connotations. The same as you and hoodies. Sorry Mac, you're guilty of racial stereotyping. Don't worry though, easily done.
I'll say again, I don't think you're racist but I don't think you should be taking such a literal approach to the words that come out of people's mouths when you have no EVIDENCE that they mean what you think think they mean. It's far too easy these days to simply throw around accusations like 'racist' or 'anti-Semite', for example, tarring someone's reputation for life, with no comeback.

I didn't know about Fried Chicken I have to say.

I've heard of black people taking offence to the term "nitty gritty" before, by Mac's standards, everyone using that term is by definition a racist even though it is common parlance.

super_realist wrote:I didn't know about Fried Chicken I have to say

Neither did I .. but Mac's argument is that Sergio has spent enough time in the USA that he SHOULD know. I'd argue that being a non English speaker, he could be equally as unaware of any potential connotations