Ospreys vs Blues - pro 12

Previous meetings: Played 26, Ospreys won 18, Blues won seven with one draw.

Ospreys have won their last 10 Pro12 fixtures against Blues since a 21-21 draw at Liberty Stadium in April 2011.

Ospreys: Dan Evans; Jeff Hassler, Ben John, Josh Matavesi, Eli Walker; Sam Davies, Rhys Webb; Nicky Smith, Sam Parry, Dmitri Arhip, Bradley Davies, Alun Wyn Jones (Capt), James King, Justin Tipuric, Dan Baker.

Replacements: Scott Baldwin, Paul James, Ma'afu Fia, Rory Thornton, Dan Lydiate, Tom Habberfield, Dan Biggar, Ashley Beck

Cardiff Blues: Dan Fish; Blaine Scully, Garyn Smith, Rey Lee-Lo, Tom James; Gareth Anscombe, Lloyd Williams; Gethin Jenkins (capt), Kristian Dacey, Taufa'ao Filise, Macauley Cook, Josh Turnbull, Josh Navidi, Ellis Jenkins, Nick Williams

Replacements: Matthew Rees, Rhys Gill, Scott Andrews, James Down, Cam Dolan, Tomos Williams, Steven Shingler, Matthew Morgan

Referee: Nigel Owens (WRU)

Assistant Referees: Sean Brickell, Gareth Newman (WRU)

Citing Commissioner: Aurwell Morgan (WRU)

TMO: Tim Hayes (WRU)

Looking at the two teams on paper I can't see anything other than an Ospreys win, but as usual it will be played on grass so anything can happen. Two strong benches, Baldwin, James, Lydiate and Biggar for the Ospreys and Rees, Shingler and Morgan to come on for Cardiff.

I would love it if Matthew Morgan came on as fullback, it will be like the Blues defending with 14 as MM shirks his tackles

Seagultaf wrote:Looking at the two teams on paper I can't see anything other than an Ospreys win, but as usual it will be played on grass so anything can happen. Two strong benches, Baldwin, James, Lydiate and Biggar for the Ospreys and Rees, Shingler and Morgan to come on for Cardiff.

Eh? That Swansea midfield will be carved up like a roast dinner if Lee-Lo and Anscombe hit their straps. Shockingly one paced. As for a strong bench it'd have to be with pile of useless excrement of the scale of Baldwin sat on it. Lydiate wouldn't get in that Blues side.

Would've started Biggar at fh. Webb and Evans need big games..

Breadvan wrote:Would've started Biggar at fh. Webb and Evans need big games..

Breadvan, IMO we have to play both as often as possible, if the rumours are correct about Dan leaving at the end of this contract, we have to keep hold of Sam, and probably the only way to do this is giving both generally equal amounts of game time, again my opinion there is not a lot between either of them at the moment, if either is having a mare we can always fetch the other on, the only problem to me is if BOTH are selected for TW, because I believe the best 3 outside halves available to Wales can be seen tonight at the Liberty, so who comes in if they are both selected?

I like Ben John.

I'm very excited to see this game...!

PhilBB wrote:I like Ben John.

I heard he thinks you're alright too mate

And this season the blues are mostly wearing Jack Wills Pink and navy striped rugby shirts..!

James King is looking very useful. Dan Lydiat is going to struggle to get his spot back

World class try from world class AWJ. Blues look very well drilled but that error from Fish has been very costly.

It started so well for the Blues. But we have barely had possession for the last 15.

Need to hold out until were back to 15.

Oh dear

Not looking good now.

Need possession

The Ospreys are playing very well. Heads up rugby.

I am sure the blues will get back into the game though.

Connacht doing well vs Ulster too..!

Very good game this. These derbies have often been damp squibs in recent seasons with poor skills and loads of errors, but this one is excellent with some very good skills on display.

Jesus. May as well stop watching now.

wales606 wrote:Jesus. May as well stop watching now.

Blues have the skills to get back into this..

Looking a bit shell shocked, a good chat at half time, stop the offloads and Ospreys won't get so much room.

Great game so far.

Blues needed that last minute try.

Need to take all their opportunities and sort our their scramble defence and one up tackling.

It seems like Ospreys didn't have to work that hard for at least 3 tries, or maybe they made it look easy... I think Cardiff have played pretty well but it's the errors killing them like last week. Cardiff look better coached but Ospreys playing what's on a lot better - I guess having flankers at 2nd row isn't going to help but saying that Cardiff are good around the field and in the driving maul.

Can we call if full time now?

This is getting embarrassing.

Shouldn't have give that.

59 - 5 was the Ospreys result against Zebre.

Are we better than Zebre?

Ospreys on fire!

They scored 8 tries against Zebre

6 so far against the Blues, with 35 minutes to go.

Dire Dire Dire

Ospreys much better overall, and a few of their boys stuck their hand up for international selection.

Blues allowed ospreys to play an offload game. It worked well for us. Blues backrow were completely outplayed. Can't see Ellis Jenkins or Nalvidi get another cap without a big game in the next few weeks.

mikey_dragon wrote:Ospreys much better overall, and a few of their boys stuck their hand up for international selection.

Yes Sam Davies, James King, Justin Tipuric, Sam Parry and Ben John are all looking like freshening up the welsh squad.

Based on that performance you'd never guess Matthew Morgan has been in the Welsh squad as fullback cover ahead of dan Evans.

King, Tips and Nicky Smith were immense.

Sam Davies is gonna be some player too

I wouldn't have Davies in the squad, and see no reason to hinder the Ospreys like that. I agree with the others, and yes Nicky Smith has stepped up lately. I hope some form picks are in there - it would be dejecting even for me to see the likes of Lydiate and an injured Warburton just thrown back in, as well as an underperforming Scott Williams and JD2.

True Raven wrote:Based on that performance you'd never guess Matthew Morgan has been in the Welsh squad as fullback cover ahead of dan Evans.  

King, Tips and Nicky Smith were immense.  

Sam Davies is gonna be some player too

Don't worry, neither of those will get in right now.

mikey_dragon wrote:

True Raven wrote:Based on that performance you'd never guess Matthew Morgan has been in the Welsh squad as fullback cover ahead of dan Evans.  

King, Tips and Nicky Smith were immense.  

Sam Davies is gonna be some player too

Don't worry, neither of those will get in right now.

I don't think Dan Evans is good enough for international rugby, just baffled that coaches put MM as the last line of defence. Matavesi carried him metres for his try

True Raven wrote:Based on that performance you'd never guess Matthew Morgan has been in the Welsh squad as fullback cover ahead of dan Evans.  

King, Tips and Nicky Smith were immense.  

Sam Davies is gonna be some player too

I think tonight was a convincing statement that he's the most talented outside half available to Wales at the moment. It's something that's been creeping through for a while now, but he shows a distinct footballing nous that Biggar has spent years trying to learn, and even now it still feels a bit cumbersome at times with Biggar.

It's a sign that Sam Davies needs to start being blooded in over the Autumn, that he's ready. If they start now, he could well be on 20-30 odd caps by the time 2019 WC comes around, which should also mean he has probably displaced Biggar. The only obvious concern is his physicality, can he step up to the intensity of international rugby, can he replicate his skills in the more brutal environment, but that's the same for many smaller players. Great player. Has all the raw skills of 'having it all': no obvious footballing weakness that isn't fundamentally 'there', per se (his goalkicking, for instance, is something well honed: just because he missed a few tonight, it's not as if it would take a vast overhaul./improvement to be Test standard.).

I like the look of sam davies. As much as I think dan biggar is a good player he has obvious limitations. Have some balls Gatland, pick Davies.

Its Biggar still for me, it was only 12 months ago he was arguably the best 10 in the World Cup. He hasn't regressed so for me keeps the shirt and Sam can have the O's shirt during the internationals.

It is still Biggar, I agree, but only for now. Shouldn't rely on him until the next World Cup as automatic first choice, as I think Gatland has done time and again with some players, and new players often seem to stumble into the team by accident (perhaps one of his biggest flaws). The succession path has been really poor by Wales: they can't replicate NZ and play around with a few midfield options every few games, because they're not good enough to win, they don't have the talent pool. But the way they do blood youngsters, not throwing them in too deep before getting rid of them for ever, but slowly feeding them in, that's what Wales need to do. It's still sink or swim, if they're not good enough they aren't good enough: but there's a difference between throwing in a 19 year old because of an injury and then discarding him once he doesn't fit straight in, or has a nervy performance, and there's letting them get to the deep end by swimming through the shallow section first.

Ironically, the way in which Biggar understudied Stephen Jones for years (deservedly or not, as Gatland received a lot of criticism for Biggar being a seeming nailed on favourite over the likes of Hook and a few others 10s who were in better form) before being ignored for three years is the best way to do it (without the 3 year absence). Give them a shot starting in the smaller games (without the wholesale pack changes), keep them around the squad environment for a few series, from a young age so they become accustomed to it, and then drip feed them off the bench in the not-too-high-profile-bigger-games (Scotland, or at least historically, Italy, Argentina...again perhaps historically: at the very least not England, France, SANZAR etc). After that, he should be well placed to go toe to toe with Biggar. I see more to Davies' game than I ever have in Biggar, as good and effective as he is at the more pragmatic elements of playing 10 (kicking for territory, goal, not shirking the tackle, safe distribution, even the high contests are, for want of a better word, elbow grease as opposed to the speed of thought of an exciting footballing 10).

Can somebody summarise that post please?

Actually, don't bother. I'm back to sleep now.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Ospreys much better overall, and a few of their boys stuck their hand up for international selection.

Yes Sam Davies, James King, Justin Tipuric, Sam Parry and Ben John are all looking like freshening up the welsh squad.

at both of these posts. We don't half over rate players here in Wales.

miaow wrote:

True Raven wrote:Based on that performance you'd never guess Matthew Morgan has been in the Welsh squad as fullback cover ahead of dan Evans.  

King, Tips and Nicky Smith were immense.  

Sam Davies is gonna be some player too

I think tonight was a convincing statement that he's the most talented outside half available to Wales at the moment. It's something that's been creeping through for a while now, but he shows a distinct footballing nous that Biggar has spent years trying to learn, and even now it still feels a bit cumbersome at times with Biggar.

It's a sign that Sam Davies needs to start being blooded in over the Autumn, that he's ready. If they start now, he could well be on 20-30 odd caps by the time 2019 WC comes around, which should also mean he has probably displaced Biggar. The only obvious concern is his physicality, can he step up to the intensity of international rugby, can he replicate his skills in the more brutal environment, but that's the same for many smaller players. Great player. Has all the raw skills of 'having it all': no obvious footballing weakness that isn't fundamentally 'there', per se (his goalkicking, for instance, is something well honed: just because he missed a few tonight, it's not as if it would take a vast overhaul./improvement to be Test standard.).

Wales will never play a quicker game with Biggar at ten. Though that ambition may just be more Gatland bullsh1te

Stone Motif wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Ospreys much better overall, and a few of their boys stuck their hand up for international selection.

Yes Sam Davies, James King, Justin Tipuric, Sam Parry and Ben John are all looking like freshening up the welsh squad.

at both of these posts. We don't half over rate players here in Wales.

Anscombe had a shocking game, Davies looks like the best back up flyhalf.

Ben John certainly looks the best forth choice centre and is quick enough to play wing.

I don't think we overage players in Wales at all.

maestegmafia wrote:

Stone Motif wrote:

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:Ospreys much better overall, and a few of their boys stuck their hand up for international selection.

Yes Sam Davies, James King, Justin Tipuric, Sam Parry and Ben John are all looking like freshening up the welsh squad.

at both of these posts. We don't half over rate players here in Wales.

Anscombe had a shocking game, Davies looks like the best back up flyhalf.

Ben John certainly looks the best forth choice centre and is quick enough to play wing.

I don't think we overage players in Wales at all.

even more. Average team beats poor team is no basis to assess international credentials sorry. Let's recall our record against the better international teams and be realistic about the talent in our professional player base shall we? Ben John LOL

We certainly do overrated players in Wales but those were two good teams last night which each contained a host of international players and some others who look capable at playing at that intensity.

True Raven wrote:Its Biggar still for me, it was only 12 months ago he was arguably the best 10 in the World Cup.  He hasn't regressed so for me keeps the shirt and Sam can have the O's shirt during the internationals.  

This 100%. I'm not sure how people can think Davies is ready for international rugby right now given his limitations. I still doubt he can be an international player but he's already exceeded my expectations, so one day why not. He is similar to George Ford these days. The fact that we also have a high percentage goal-kicker in Halfpenny could be Davies' lucky break.

mikey_dragon wrote:

True Raven wrote:Its Biggar still for me, it was only 12 months ago he was arguably the best 10 in the World Cup.  He hasn't regressed so for me keeps the shirt and Sam can have the O's shirt during the internationals.  

This 100%. I'm not sure how people can think Davies is ready for international rugby right now given his limitations. I still doubt he can be an international player but he's already exceeded my expectations, so one day why not. He is similar to George Ford these days. The fact that we also have a high percentage goal-kicker in Halfpenny could be Davies' lucky break.

He seems to get the backline moving better than any other Welsh flyhalf at the moment. If Wales are going to play an expansive game we need a flyhalf who can deliver a fast game at halfback, something Biggar has always struggled to do.

Sorry MaestagMafia but I cannot agree that Biggar doesn't get a back line moving. I've seen him do it many times for the O's down the years.

The issue lies with a crap gameplan that Gatland and Howley implement for Wales that has players running into contact with no offloading. Once we change the style of play Biggar will cope just fine.

And Ben John will never be anything more than a squad filler for he O's. as soon as Fonotia arrives and Beck is at full fitness, Ben John becomes our fourth choice centre

Biggar plays a lot closer to the gain line for Ospreys and it works well due to his flawless skill set - and according to Turks playing close to the gain line makes you a superb fly-half. On principal Biggar is miles ahead of any other 10 in Wales - Anscombe and Davies not too far behind on current form.

Not so sure about John - his form right now is immense however he's been around for years and hasn't been up to much in that time.

maestegmafia wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

True Raven wrote:Its Biggar still for me, it was only 12 months ago he was arguably the best 10 in the World Cup.  He hasn't regressed so for me keeps the shirt and Sam can have the O's shirt during the internationals.  

This 100%. I'm not sure how people can think Davies is ready for international rugby right now given his limitations. I still doubt he can be an international player but he's already exceeded my expectations, so one day why not. He is similar to George Ford these days. The fact that we also have a high percentage goal-kicker in Halfpenny could be Davies' lucky break.

He seems to get the backline moving better than any other Welsh flyhalf at the moment. If Wales are going to play an expansive game we need a flyhalf who can deliver a fast game at halfback, something Biggar has always struggled to do.

Agreed, Biggar did have a spell prior to his injury against Ireland when he had developed a far more attacking style but he seemed to regress back to a steady eddy game after that injury.

True Raven wrote:Sorry MaestagMafia but I cannot agree that Biggar doesn't get a back line moving.  I've seen him do it many times for the O's down the years.

The issue lies with a crap gameplan that Gatland and Howley implement for Wales that has players running into contact with no offloading.  Once we change the style of play Biggar will cope just fine.  

And Ben John will never be anything more than a squad filler for he O's.  as soon as Fonotia arrives and Beck is at full fitness, Ben John becomes our fourth choice centre

No, the issue lies with Biggar's total lack of acceleration which is granted not an issue in the Slow12 but gets seriously exposed against the big boys of international rugby.