Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
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The v2 Forum :: Sport :: Rugby Union :: International
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Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
First topic message reminder :
SCOTLAND v GEORGIA
26 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Rugby Park, Kilmarnock
Live on [BBC Two]
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Dan Jones (Wales)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)
A. Head to Head
1 Played 1
1 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 1
15 Points 6
B. Recent Form
14 September 2011
Scotland 15–6 Georgia
Rugby Park Stadium, Invercargill
C. TEAMS:
SCOTLAND
15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Mark Bennett, 12 Alex Dunbar, 11 Tommy Seymour, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Greig Laidlaw(c), 8 Ryan Wilson, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Rob Harley, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Richie Gray, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Ross Ford, 1 Allan Dell
Replacements: 16 Fraser Brown, 17 Alex Allan, 18 Moray Low, 19 Grant Gilchrist, 20 John Barclay, 21 Ali Price, 22 Pete Horne, 23 Rory Hughes
GEORGIA
15 Merab Kvirikashvili, 14 Giorgi Aptsiauri, 13 Merab Sharikadze, 12 Tamaz Mtchedlidze, 11 Sandro Todua, 10 Lasha Malaghuradze, 9 Vasil Lobzhanidze, 8 Beka Bitsadze, 7 Mamuka Gorgodze(c), 6 Vito Kolelishvili, 5 Giorgi Nemsadze, 4 Kote Mikautadze, 3 Levan Chilachava, 2 Jaba Bregvadze, 1 Mikheil Nariashvili
Replacements: 16 Badri Alkhazashvili, 17 Kakha Asieshvili, 18 Dudu Kubriashvili, 19 Lasha Lomidze, 20 Giorgi Tkhilaishvili, 21 Giorgi Begadze, 22 Beka Tsiklauri, 23 Shalva Sutiashvili
***
In the recent international series, Georgia posted the following results, having travelled to the Pacific Islands for the first time:
- 11 June 2016: Samoa 19 - 19 Georgia (Apia Park, Samoa)
- 18 June 2016: Tonga 20 - 23 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 24 June 2016: Fiji 3 - 14 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 12 November 2016: Georgia 22−28 Japan
- 19 November 2016: Georgia 20–16 Samoa
This now means that:
- Georgia have now beaten all of the Tier 2 rugby nations (Fiji, Japan, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Portugal, Romania, Russia and Spain)
- Georgia are now ranked 11th in the world
- This ranks them higher than Japan, Italy, Samoa, Tonga and the USA
- Georgia has now played in 4 RWCs and has automatically qualified for Japan 2019
- They have now won the European Nations Cup (i.e. the Tier 2 version of the 6 Nations) nine times in 2001, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
SCOTLAND v GEORGIA
26 November 2016
KO: 14:30 GMT
Rugby Park, Kilmarnock
Live on [BBC Two]
Referee: Matthew Carley (England)
Assistant referees: Mathieu Raynal (France), Dan Jones (Wales)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)
A. Head to Head
1 Played 1
1 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
0 Lost 1
15 Points 6
B. Recent Form
14 September 2011
Scotland 15–6 Georgia
Rugby Park Stadium, Invercargill
C. TEAMS:
SCOTLAND
15 Stuart Hogg, 14 Sean Maitland, 13 Mark Bennett, 12 Alex Dunbar, 11 Tommy Seymour, 10 Finn Russell, 9 Greig Laidlaw(c), 8 Ryan Wilson, 7 Hamish Watson, 6 Rob Harley, 5 Jonny Gray, 4 Richie Gray, 3 Zander Fagerson, 2 Ross Ford, 1 Allan Dell
Replacements: 16 Fraser Brown, 17 Alex Allan, 18 Moray Low, 19 Grant Gilchrist, 20 John Barclay, 21 Ali Price, 22 Pete Horne, 23 Rory Hughes
GEORGIA
15 Merab Kvirikashvili, 14 Giorgi Aptsiauri, 13 Merab Sharikadze, 12 Tamaz Mtchedlidze, 11 Sandro Todua, 10 Lasha Malaghuradze, 9 Vasil Lobzhanidze, 8 Beka Bitsadze, 7 Mamuka Gorgodze(c), 6 Vito Kolelishvili, 5 Giorgi Nemsadze, 4 Kote Mikautadze, 3 Levan Chilachava, 2 Jaba Bregvadze, 1 Mikheil Nariashvili
Replacements: 16 Badri Alkhazashvili, 17 Kakha Asieshvili, 18 Dudu Kubriashvili, 19 Lasha Lomidze, 20 Giorgi Tkhilaishvili, 21 Giorgi Begadze, 22 Beka Tsiklauri, 23 Shalva Sutiashvili
***
In the recent international series, Georgia posted the following results, having travelled to the Pacific Islands for the first time:
- 11 June 2016: Samoa 19 - 19 Georgia (Apia Park, Samoa)
- 18 June 2016: Tonga 20 - 23 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 24 June 2016: Fiji 3 - 14 Georgia (Suva, Fiji)
- 12 November 2016: Georgia 22−28 Japan
- 19 November 2016: Georgia 20–16 Samoa
This now means that:
- Georgia have now beaten all of the Tier 2 rugby nations (Fiji, Japan, Samoa, Tonga, Canada, USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Portugal, Romania, Russia and Spain)
- Georgia are now ranked 11th in the world
- This ranks them higher than Japan, Italy, Samoa, Tonga and the USA
- Georgia has now played in 4 RWCs and has automatically qualified for Japan 2019
- They have now won the European Nations Cup (i.e. the Tier 2 version of the 6 Nations) nine times in 2001, 2008, 2009, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015 and 2016.
Last edited by George Carlin on Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:39 am; edited 2 times in total
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Ali Price - the anti Laidlaw. Superb play young man
TheMildlyFranticLlama- Posts : 2109
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Price showing why we need to develop impact off the bench at 9!
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Ryan Wilson motm?????
RDW- Founder
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Ryan Wilson MOTM, think that one was picked especially for 606v2!
TheMildlyFranticLlama- Posts : 2109
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Was thinking the exact same thing....
Well done Ali Price for putting his hand up at the end there.
Well done Ali Price for putting his hand up at the end there.
Eejit- Posts : 1386
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Tiger, you OK buddy?
IanBru- Posts : 2909
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Wilson MOTM
How people "in the know" can be so oblivious to him being completely useless is amazing, i didn't even realize he was English until just then..
Decent result but we should have been a lot more ruthless, 60 points was on and we flapped the second half.
How people "in the know" can be so oblivious to him being completely useless is amazing, i didn't even realize he was English until just then..
Decent result but we should have been a lot more ruthless, 60 points was on and we flapped the second half.
monty junior- Posts : 1775
Join date : 2011-04-18
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Well a good win and a very decent game.
One for the Ryan Wilson haters to ponder I think and Ali Price and Rory Hughes showed what they can bring to the party!
One for the Ryan Wilson haters to ponder I think and Ali Price and Rory Hughes showed what they can bring to the party!
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
I'm pretty sure Ryan Wilson is Scottish. The clue's in the badge on his chest.
IanBru- Posts : 2909
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
monty junior wrote:Wilson MOTM
How people "in the know" can be so oblivious to him being completely useless is amazing, i didn't even realize he was English until just then..
Decent result but we should have been a lot more ruthless, 60 points was on and we flapped the second half.
Wilson is just as Scottish as Watson.
Welly- Posts : 4264
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
To be fair to Wilson and I'm not a fan. He did really well today.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
He's not awful by any means, he just doesn't do anything particularly well, fine at club rugby but he's too lightweight for international rugby, he just get's bullied. We have a great chance to finish top 3 in the 6 nations, if we can find a better balance in the back row. He is not good enough to start when everyone is fit, frankly he'd be lucky to get in the squad.
Good to see Hogg get back amongst the tries again, you've got Seymour with the same amount of tries in 30 tests as Lamont did in 90 odd, it's great to be able to score tries, just need to do a bit of adjusting in the forwards.
Good to see Hogg get back amongst the tries again, you've got Seymour with the same amount of tries in 30 tests as Lamont did in 90 odd, it's great to be able to score tries, just need to do a bit of adjusting in the forwards.
monty junior- Posts : 1775
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
With Nel and Dickinson back and firing,as well as our first choice back row, We will be a headache for most teams.
No one will relish a visit to Murrayfield ATM.
No one will relish a visit to Murrayfield ATM.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Heuer27 wrote:With Nel and Dickinson back and firing,as well as our first choice back row, We will be a headache for most teams.
No one will relish a visit to Murryfield ATM.
Question has to be what is our first choice back row if all are fit and firing? I suspect it is not a simple and straightforward answer.
demosthenes- Posts : 629
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
True. But I think most of us have an idea of who are our first choice back row are. Personally Barclay has to be there then Watson/ Hardie and either Denton/ Strauss / CDP Depanding on who is fit. With Bradbury ,Dell, Faegerson, Bennett, Price, Horne , Brown , Toolis/ Gilchrist. On the bench. It's hard to pick tbh. Which in itself is a good thing.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Like it or not Ryan Wilson will be in the mix for the back row come the 6N and that id because the coaches like him.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
No way was Wilson motm. Had to be Hogg surely? Seymour even?
Really need to fix the scrums. Both props shown up again.
Other than that, was a fairly convincing win
Really need to fix the scrums. Both props shown up again.
Other than that, was a fairly convincing win
tigertattie- Posts : 9569
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Watson has taken the chance he has been given in these games. Played very well overall I thought
TJ- Posts : 8603
Join date : 2013-09-22
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
BigGee wrote:Like it or not Ryan Wilson will be in the mix for the back row come the 6N and that id because the coaches like him.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
I'd actually agree that Wilson deserved his MoM, he was good today. I now recall him having a strong performances internationally against Georgia and last year against Italy. Circumstances have conspired in such a way that he has the jersey for now, but no matter how you spin it - he is really very average at what he does.
EST- Posts : 1905
Join date : 2012-05-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
EST wrote:BigGee wrote:Like it or not Ryan Wilson will be in the mix for the back row come the 6N and that id because the coaches like him.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
I'd actually agree that Wilson deserved his MoM, he was good today. I now recall him having a strong performances internationally against Georgia and last year against Italy. Circumstances have conspired in such a way that he has the jersey for now, but no matter how you spin it - he is really very average at what he does.
I think very average is probably a bit strong, he is a good player.
Is he as good as some of the other No.8s playing in the home nations, No.
Is any other Scottish player really putting up his hand for the shirt, No. The only one really is Bradbury and the coaches, probably quite rightly, seem to want to ease him in gently and he may not see that much game time this 6N.
I would love it if a better player than Wilson was demanding the shirt, but I am not really seeing it atm.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Agree with all of that. Barclay does not look naturally at home at 8 despite his frequent cameos, Strauss seems to be out of favour for some reason, CDP clearly is not at full fitness and that has been one of the most disappointing threads of this international campaign.BigGee wrote:EST wrote:BigGee wrote:Like it or not Ryan Wilson will be in the mix for the back row come the 6N and that id because the coaches like him.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
I'd actually agree that Wilson deserved his MoM, he was good today. I now recall him having a strong performances internationally against Georgia and last year against Italy. Circumstances have conspired in such a way that he has the jersey for now, but no matter how you spin it - he is really very average at what he does.
I think very average is probably a bit strong, he is a good player.
Is he as good as some of the other No.8s playing in the home nations, No.
Is any other Scottish player really putting up his hand for the shirt, No. The only one really is Bradbury and the coaches, probably quite rightly, seem to want to ease him in gently and he may not see that much game time this 6N.
I would love it if a better player than Wilson was demanding the shirt, but I am not really seeing it atm.
Denton is not playing for his club, Ashe is injured, Beattie has vanished and Eadie plays for a ladies second XV in the second tier.
It is correct to say that we probably have the weakest 8 from all of the 6 Nations (Parisse, Picamoles, Falatau, Vunipola and Heaslip) but it doesn't mean that Wilson is an awful player. It just means that its irritating we cannot put up someone better at the moment.
George Carlin- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Also I am trying to work out how close to a 1st team that was. Pretty close I think.
We were Missing:
Nel
Dickson
Sutherland?
Strauss
Jones
Hardie
We were Missing:
Nel
Dickson
Sutherland?
Strauss
Jones
Hardie
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
I thought Fagerson did OK. The main trouble in the scrums came when he went off. Some decent runs as well. Hopefully Nel and Dickinson will be back for the 6N but the experience Dell and Fagerson have got will be invaluable
Laidlaw a good game. Russell a bit meh. Back 3 looked sharpe and dangerous,
Back row Watson must surely now be the incumbent at 7 but somehow despite all the good back rows we have its hard to pick a properly balanced back row. Bradbury and Barclay? Or Strauss? Played a stormer in glasgows defeat.
Laidlaw a good game. Russell a bit meh. Back 3 looked sharpe and dangerous,
Back row Watson must surely now be the incumbent at 7 but somehow despite all the good back rows we have its hard to pick a properly balanced back row. Bradbury and Barclay? Or Strauss? Played a stormer in glasgows defeat.
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
cakeordeath wrote:Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
I think you are forgetting how far we have come. 6 tries - even 3 years ago 6 tries against anyone would be unthinkable
TJ- Posts : 8603
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
TJ wrote:cakeordeath wrote:Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
I think you are forgetting how far we have come. 6 tries - even 3 years ago 6 tries against anyone would be unthinkable
That's true. I also can't help but feel if we had played this game at Murrayfield we would probably have run in a few more. However our 2nd half performance was a worry.
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
I think that Dell will be giving Sutherland a run for his money for the back up LH spot now. He has been given his chance and has taken it with both hands. He held up his side of the scrum very well and was very good in the loose. He has just not had the chances at Edinburgh to show what a good player he is. Allan looked like he can play at this level as well and just needs more opportunity as well.
The depth at LH is actually pretty impressive now. Assuming Dickinson can regain fitness and his old form you would imagine he is still first choice. He is starting to knock on a bit though and that may not be a given though, but we do look like we have life following on from him in any case.
The backrow is still a work in progress though and a few players have not shown us their hands yet. I don't believe that VC really does know what his best combo there is yet either.
I hope he will be encouraged to use the back up SH a bit more as well now. Price really did show what a fresh fast player can do against a tiring defence and is a tactic we could and should be using more often and effectively.
The depth at LH is actually pretty impressive now. Assuming Dickinson can regain fitness and his old form you would imagine he is still first choice. He is starting to knock on a bit though and that may not be a given though, but we do look like we have life following on from him in any case.
The backrow is still a work in progress though and a few players have not shown us their hands yet. I don't believe that VC really does know what his best combo there is yet either.
I hope he will be encouraged to use the back up SH a bit more as well now. Price really did show what a fresh fast player can do against a tiring defence and is a tactic we could and should be using more often and effectively.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
cakeordeath wrote:TJ wrote:cakeordeath wrote:Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
I think you are forgetting how far we have come. 6 tries - even 3 years ago 6 tries against anyone would be unthinkable
That's true. I also can't help but feel if we had played this game at Murrayfield we would probably have run in a few more. However our 2nd half performance was a worry.
Give a little bit of credit to Georgia here as well. They actually played a lot better in the second half as well, despite the game being gone. They were facing an annihilation at one point and had enough pride in their shirts to carrying on fighting.
BigGee- Admin
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
BigGee wrote:cakeordeath wrote:TJ wrote:cakeordeath wrote:Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
I think you are forgetting how far we have come. 6 tries - even 3 years ago 6 tries against anyone would be unthinkable
That's true. I also can't help but feel if we had played this game at Murrayfield we would probably have run in a few more. However our 2nd half performance was a worry.
Give a little bit of credit to Georgia here as well. They actually played a lot better in the second half as well, despite the game being gone. They were facing an annihilation at one point and had enough pride in their shirts to carrying on fighting.
I don't think I can, I honestly believe we were truly awful in the 2nd half
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
cakeordeath wrote:BigGee wrote:cakeordeath wrote:TJ wrote:cakeordeath wrote:Quite disappointed by that game. We should have put 60+ points on them. England, Wales, or Ireland would have. First half was ok, second half we were poor.
I think you are forgetting how far we have come. 6 tries - even 3 years ago 6 tries against anyone would be unthinkable
That's true. I also can't help but feel if we had played this game at Murrayfield we would probably have run in a few more. However our 2nd half performance was a worry.
Give a little bit of credit to Georgia here as well. They actually played a lot better in the second half as well, despite the game being gone. They were facing an annihilation at one point and had enough pride in their shirts to carrying on fighting.
I don't think I can, I honestly believe we were truly awful in the 2nd half
Actually that is coming off as a bit harsh. Georgia definitely upped their game 2nd half, but we helped them by being sh!t
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Given that myself, and others on here, thought that this was going to be a tense physical game yet we absolutely pumped them 43-16 we should really be pretty happy.
The first half was the best I've seen us play against a tier 2 nation - we had so much ball that we only made 5 tackles in the first half! Now you could say that with all that dominance we should have scored more points.
2nd half was very poor but I'm glad we got the late try to put a gloss on things - Laidlaw would never have taken that quick tap!
The first half was the best I've seen us play against a tier 2 nation - we had so much ball that we only made 5 tackles in the first half! Now you could say that with all that dominance we should have scored more points.
2nd half was very poor but I'm glad we got the late try to put a gloss on things - Laidlaw would never have taken that quick tap!
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Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
George Carlin wrote:Agree with all of that. Barclay does not look naturally at home at 8 despite his frequent cameos, Strauss seems to be out of favour for some reason, CDP clearly is not at full fitness and that has been one of the most disappointing threads of this international campaign.BigGee wrote:EST wrote:BigGee wrote:Like it or not Ryan Wilson will be in the mix for the back row come the 6N and that id because the coaches like him.
The reason the coaches like him is that he grafts unselfishishly for 80 mins each game and leaves everything out on the pitch.
Denton may well carry better than him, but can't pass or catch and does not defend as well.
Strauss can do all the things Wilson does and maybe better, but really seems to be struggling to stay fit now.
CDP may well prove to be the longer term answer, but has not showed the form that we know he is capable of this year so far, until he does, he is unlikely to be selected.
Bradbury is the coming man, but needs to gain the experience.
Wilson may not be the best at anything he does, but the sum of his parts is pretty solid and that is why all of his coaches keep picking him.
That is only likely to change when one of the others really puts up their hands and makes an unanswerable case. At the moment none of them are doing that.
I'd actually agree that Wilson deserved his MoM, he was good today. I now recall him having a strong performances internationally against Georgia and last year against Italy. Circumstances have conspired in such a way that he has the jersey for now, but no matter how you spin it - he is really very average at what he does.
I think very average is probably a bit strong, he is a good player.
Is he as good as some of the other No.8s playing in the home nations, No.
Is any other Scottish player really putting up his hand for the shirt, No. The only one really is Bradbury and the coaches, probably quite rightly, seem to want to ease him in gently and he may not see that much game time this 6N.
I would love it if a better player than Wilson was demanding the shirt, but I am not really seeing it atm.
Denton is not playing for his club, Ashe is injured, Beattie has vanished and Eadie plays for a ladies second XV in the second tier.
It is correct to say that we probably have the weakest 8 from all of the 6 Nations (Parisse, Picamoles, Falatau, Vunipola and Heaslip) but it doesn't mean that Wilson is an awful player. It just means that its irritating we cannot put up someone better at the moment.
I know I am coming of as sounding harsh on Wilson, he does give his all for the cause and, as you say, is a solid player. I also agree as to why he is currently the incumbent, he is the only person seemingly fit and firing. However, I stand by my assertion that he is an average international player. Against the better teams, he really struggles to offer any impact - especially when carrying ball. I think it's the one area in our starting 15 where we really struggle to field somebody of similar class to our regular opposition. You only have to look at Faletau, Vunipola or Parisse to see what we are missing out on. I really hope CDP manages to string some games together, as for me he seems the obvious person to fill the void.
EST- Posts : 1905
Join date : 2012-05-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
I think that 2 parts of our backrow are now in place.
Watson or Hardie could play openside and I would not like to toss a coin between them when both fit and firing. Watson probably slightly better going forward, Hardie a bit more powerful in the tackle. Both look like they can play well at this level.
Barclay I would say has now nailed down the BS spot. In reality he is more of a 61/2 than a true BS but that actually suits the way we are playing at the moment. The Harley experiement against Georgia was maybe worth trying but it did not really tell us anything we did not know, in that Rob Harley may not be quite dynamic enough to be an international backrow forward. For all his attributes, that is not the kind of game we are trying to play now.
No.8 is just up for grabs. Barclay is not an 8 and was only played there to ease Bradbury into the international arena. Wilson is the incumbent, a safe pair of hands even if he does not really light the fire, he will do a job. Strauss has struggled to put any run of games together recently and has not completely convinced at international level when he has had his chance. Denton will run into a brick wall but struggles to pass or off load once he has beaten the first man. CDP needs to get fit and Bradbury just needs to keep on doing what he is doing and eventually the coaches will pay attention!
Watson or Hardie could play openside and I would not like to toss a coin between them when both fit and firing. Watson probably slightly better going forward, Hardie a bit more powerful in the tackle. Both look like they can play well at this level.
Barclay I would say has now nailed down the BS spot. In reality he is more of a 61/2 than a true BS but that actually suits the way we are playing at the moment. The Harley experiement against Georgia was maybe worth trying but it did not really tell us anything we did not know, in that Rob Harley may not be quite dynamic enough to be an international backrow forward. For all his attributes, that is not the kind of game we are trying to play now.
No.8 is just up for grabs. Barclay is not an 8 and was only played there to ease Bradbury into the international arena. Wilson is the incumbent, a safe pair of hands even if he does not really light the fire, he will do a job. Strauss has struggled to put any run of games together recently and has not completely convinced at international level when he has had his chance. Denton will run into a brick wall but struggles to pass or off load once he has beaten the first man. CDP needs to get fit and Bradbury just needs to keep on doing what he is doing and eventually the coaches will pay attention!
BigGee- Admin
- Posts : 15419
Join date : 2013-11-05
Location : London
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
BigGee wrote:I think that 2 parts of our backrow are now in place.
Watson or Hardie could play openside and I would not like to toss a coin between them when both fit and firing. Watson probably slightly better going forward, Hardie a bit more powerful in the tackle. Both look like they can play well at this level.
Barclay I would say has now nailed down the BS spot. In reality he is more of a 61/2 than a true BS but that actually suits the way we are playing at the moment. The Harley experiement against Georgia was maybe worth trying but it did not really tell us anything we did not know, in that Rob Harley may not be quite dynamic enough to be an international backrow forward. For all his attributes, that is not the kind of game we are trying to play now.
No.8 is just up for grabs. Barclay is not an 8 and was only played there to ease Bradbury into the international arena. Wilson is the incumbent, a safe pair of hands even if he does not really light the fire, he will do a job. Strauss has struggled to put any run of games together recently and has not completely convinced at international level when he has had his chance. Denton will run into a brick wall but struggles to pass or off load once he has beaten the first man. CDP needs to get fit and Bradbury just needs to keep on doing what he is doing and eventually the coaches will pay attention!
A very fair summary, but I just don't see Barclay as the long term solution at 6!
RDW- Founder
- Posts : 33131
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
BigGee wrote:I think that 2 parts of our backrow are now in place.
Watson or Hardie could play openside and I would not like to toss a coin between them when both fit and firing. Watson probably slightly better going forward, Hardie a bit more powerful in the tackle. Both look like they can play well at this level.
Barclay I would say has now nailed down the BS spot. In reality he is more of a 61/2 than a true BS but that actually suits the way we are playing at the moment. The Harley experiement against Georgia was maybe worth trying but it did not really tell us anything we did not know, in that Rob Harley may not be quite dynamic enough to be an international backrow forward. For all his attributes, that is not the kind of game we are trying to play now.
No.8 is just up for grabs. Barclay is not an 8 and was only played there to ease Bradbury into the international arena. Wilson is the incumbent, a safe pair of hands even if he does not really light the fire, he will do a job. Strauss has struggled to put any run of games together recently and has not completely convinced at international level when he has had his chance. Denton will run into a brick wall but struggles to pass or off load once he has beaten the first man. CDP needs to get fit and Bradbury just needs to keep on doing what he is doing and eventually the coaches will pay attention!
I agree on Watson, he has really stood up and I would have no complaints if he were to start the 6N next year. I was a huge advocate of Barclay being brought back into the fold at six, as a placeholder until we could unearth somebody to occupy that spot long term. I view him as a fantastic bench option to cover 6,7 & 8, but I would look to ease Bradbury into that starting position - where I think we need him more than at 8. As I have mentioned 8 is the priority to sort out, and I think CDP is the man to do the job, with Strauss pushing him hard if he can recover some of his mojo. If I were to pick a backrow that I would want to start the game against Ireland, I would go for:
6. Bradbury
7. Hardie
8. CDP
Bench: Barclay
EST- Posts : 1905
Join date : 2012-05-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Most will disagree but I'd go for
6 - Denton
7 - Barclay
8 - Bradbury
20 - Watson
6 - Denton
7 - Barclay
8 - Bradbury
20 - Watson
reallybored- Posts : 928
Join date : 2012-07-13
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Come on now, lads.
We all know that the correct combo is:
06 Barclay
07 Watson
08 CDP
20 Hardie
We all know that the correct combo is:
06 Barclay
07 Watson
08 CDP
20 Hardie
George Carlin- Admin
- Posts : 15780
Join date : 2011-06-23
Location : KSA
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Nah nah you lot all know nothing
6 Bradbury
7 Hardie
8 CDP
Sub - Barclay
6 Bradbury
7 Hardie
8 CDP
Sub - Barclay
RDW- Founder
- Posts : 33131
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
For this season,I would go with the following.
6. Barclay
7. Watson
8. CDP
Bench: Bradbury
You have Barclay's experience , CDP 's bulk and Watson's fetching.
Hardie is not going to be ready. Neither is Denton .Strauss is a bit meh at the moment. Wilson comes after theses guys for me. Bradbury can get 20mins every game to blood him into the team with a view to getting the post full time next season. He covers 6 & 8 from the bench.
Job done. Tea and medals.
6. Barclay
7. Watson
8. CDP
Bench: Bradbury
You have Barclay's experience , CDP 's bulk and Watson's fetching.
Hardie is not going to be ready. Neither is Denton .Strauss is a bit meh at the moment. Wilson comes after theses guys for me. Bradbury can get 20mins every game to blood him into the team with a view to getting the post full time next season. He covers 6 & 8 from the bench.
Job done. Tea and medals.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Why is everyone selecting CDP?
Hasn't been capped yet and may struggle to get into the Edinburgh back-row with Bradbury, Manu & Mata.
Hasn't been capped yet and may struggle to get into the Edinburgh back-row with Bradbury, Manu & Mata.
reallybored- Posts : 928
Join date : 2012-07-13
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
reallybored wrote:Why is everyone selecting CDP?
Hasn't been capped yet and may struggle to get into the Edinburgh back-row with Bradbury, Manu & Mata.
Cause no one wants to pick Wilson there I suppose.
That and Bradbury is still a bit under cooked.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Why is Bradbury under-cooked?Heuer27 wrote:reallybored wrote:Why is everyone selecting CDP?
Hasn't been capped yet and may struggle to get into the Edinburgh back-row with Bradbury, Manu & Mata.
Cause no one wants to pick Wilson there I suppose.
That and Bradbury is still a bit under cooked.
I thought he was excellent against the Pumas and has been a stand-out for Edinburgh this season.
reallybored- Posts : 928
Join date : 2012-07-13
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
CDP's season has been plagued by injuries - if he hadn't been he would have played regularly for Edinburgh and almost certainly would have been capped this series.
If this carries on like this he shouldn't be picked in the 6N, but I hope he gets back to his best because we could do with him!
If this carries on like this he shouldn't be picked in the 6N, but I hope he gets back to his best because we could do with him!
RDW- Founder
- Posts : 33131
Join date : 2011-06-01
Location : Sydney
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
He did well at 6. Cotter said that he only gave him two things to do. Tackle and carry. Sounds like he thought he wasn't ready to play at 8 at that level.
I think the consensus is once he's had a full season as first choice 8 for his club then he'll be more prepared for the step up
I think the consensus is once he's had a full season as first choice 8 for his club then he'll be more prepared for the step up
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Heuer27 wrote:For this season,I would go with the following.
6. Barclay
7. Watson
8. CDP
Bench: Bradbury
You have Barclay's experience , CDP 's bulk and Watson's fetching.
Hardie is not going to be ready. Neither is Denton .Strauss is a bit meh at the moment. Wilson comes after theses guys for me. Bradbury can get 20mins every game to blood him into the team with a view to getting the post full time next season. He covers 6 & 8 from the bench.
Job done. Tea and medals.
I'd be happy with that as well. The weakness in my backrow is that Bradbury and CDP are both inexperienced at international level, that was why I included Hardie over Watson.
EST- Posts : 1905
Join date : 2012-05-25
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Agree with a lot of the above. Wilson is the best all round option at 8 at the moment as he can do everything that is required of him and he is the fittest player in that position. CDP when fit will probably be able to nab the shirt but I doubt Wilson will be keen to give it up. Wilson really does seem like a no nonsense sort of player who gives it his all on the pitch and puts his body on the line. I especially like his heads up attitude to the game and I think he suits the VC game plan more so than Strauss who I am also a huge fan of.
bsando- Posts : 4623
Join date : 2011-11-27
Age : 35
Location : Inverness
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
So to sum up this conversation:
Wilson has grudgingly earned a bit of respect from the Scotland forum fans and none of us can agree what our best back row should be!
No one ever said that selection was easy!
Wilson has grudgingly earned a bit of respect from the Scotland forum fans and none of us can agree what our best back row should be!
No one ever said that selection was easy!
BigGee- Admin
- Posts : 15419
Join date : 2013-11-05
Location : London
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
BigGee wrote:So to sum up this conversation:
Wilson has grudgingly earned a bit of respect from the Scotland forum fans and none of us can agree what our best back row should be!
No one ever said that selection was easy!
Good stuff. Now what about the midfield options, that'll be easy to sort out.
Heuer27- Posts : 464
Join date : 2013-01-26
Re: Scotland v Georgia, 26 November
Matt Scott at 13 obviously
cakeordeath- Posts : 1945
Join date : 2012-11-25
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