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Rolland apologises to the All Blacks

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Post by marty2086 Thu 24 Nov 2016, 1:21 pm

First topic message reminder :

They are just taking the p*$$ now

World Rugby boss Alain Rolland admits to All Blacks that Aaron Smith yellow card was wrong.

The confusion and anger continues.

The latest fallout from the match against Ireland in Dublin last weekend is that World Rugby referees chief Alain Rolland spoke to All Blacks supremo Steve Hansen this week, and told him Aaron Smith should never have been yellow carded.

That might provide some clarity to those viewers who wondered exactly what referee Jaco Peyper was referring to when he accused halfback Smith of spoiling ball at the breakdown in the first half.

That is not the only thing the All Blacks are annoyed about.

Hansen has already called for consistency. Behind the scenes you can imagine his crew may also be wondering whether Peyper lost the plot at Aviva Stadium, during the All Blacks' 21-9 win.

The Irish will laugh, saying it is rich for the New Zealanders to complain when they should have first rights at firing all the arrows, given they believed Malakai Fekitoa and Sam Cane should have been sent off for high tackles.

They got it half right. The judiciary said Fekitoa committed a red card offence with his bell-ringer on Simon Zebo, and banned the All Blacks centre for a week. Cane was exonerated.

Now it is the All Blacks' turn to return serve.

They had no issue with Peyper penalising them 14 times, but feel they were marginalised because he failed to scrutinise what the Irish were doing.

They say it doesn't make sense that the Irish could only concede four penalties, especially with a fast defensive line, swift advances around the ruck fringes and, like everyone, the desire to slow ruck ball.

Former England and British and Irish Lions midfielder Jeremy Guscott has given referees the hot tip. It's time to watch the All Blacks' more closely, he whispered. They're getting away with too much, you blokes with the whistles need to take it up a level.

Hansen says things need to be taken up a level alright, but it has to be when the refs are scrutinising their opponents.

The All Blacks get caned as much, if not more, than other teams, says Hansen.

He wants that habit to stop, for the referees to ask if the side in black, or black and white as will be the case when they meet France in Paris on Sunday morning (NZT), is the one really at fault.

Or is the perception, fuelled by Guscott and friends, becoming reality? In rugby, where the lawbook is so confusing, that is a dangerous thing.

The All Blacks can do their bit, too.

At training this week they have spoken about the need to lower their tackles, to give the officials fewer excuses to punish them. That in turn will, possibly, lead to them to start winning the PR war.

There is little doubt the All Blacks play some of the most attractive rugby on the international stage. You don't record 18 consecutive wins by operating by a kick-and-grind code.

Following their match in Dublin they have received a decent kicking.

Some of it was deserved, a lot has been unfair.

This All Blacks team is tired, and ready to go home. A win without any ugly incidents at Stade de France would be a suitable way to farewell their 2016 season.

Les Bleus might want to try their luck, to see if they disrupt with fist and niggle. Discipline may never be so important for the All Blacks.


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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 12:49 pm

And again I'm 100% certain we'll have to disagree.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 12:50 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:And again I'm 100% certain we'll have to disagree.

Your certain despite evidence showing you to be wrong?Erm

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 12:53 pm

Surely the Wood one backs that up? Deemed accidental and no red? Brown was considered accidental hence no citing. Launchbury considered accidental but cited and now banned under the new interpretation. Sorry didn't watch the first youtube vid as there's a ban on it.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:24 pm

No 7&1/2 wrote:Surely the Wood one backs that up? Deemed accidental and no red? Brown was considered accidental hence no citing. Launchbury considered accidental but cited and now banned under the new interpretation. Sorry didn't watch the first youtube vid as there's a ban on it.

And the Toulon one was deemed unintentional and a 3 week ban

Different cases will meet different criteria but it was always a potential penalty and ban, the harshness has just increased as we see with Launchberrys case

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:28 pm

Think the harshness was my point ie it was never deemed a red unless intention was there. Sorry not sure on the Toulon one can't remember it.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:30 pm

Intent has always played a part but reckless was a red too

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:35 pm

Perhaps you're right then. If Brown or Wood happened now it would be red and vice versa though.

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Post by marty2086 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:36 pm

Think Wood may be a bit luckier, Brown should have been a red then mad

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 1:40 pm

Not for me. Said at the time the contact is when he was pushed back into Murray by an Irish player. But cheers for a proper discussion!

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Post by emack2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:04 pm

Someone check the stats AllBlacks get away with everything?the stats
prove they are penalised and have more yellow cards against them
than all the other tier one sides.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:36 pm

So they are dirty then.

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:45 pm

No they are over penalised because teams can't beat them and washed up hasbeens like Guscott and hack NH journalists write columns about how dastardly the All Blacks are and how referees need to punish them. And that is what happens. Peyper only issued 4 penalties against Ireland when it should have been far higher for the type of minor infringements the All Blacks were getting pinged off the park with and pretty much handing the game to Ireland on a plate. The fact Ireland, with all that advantage and possession couldn't score a single try is an indictment on their game plan, skill and execution in a high stakes game against the best.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:50 pm

Lol.

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Post by Rory_Gallagher Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:53 pm

Have World Rugby ever apologised to a nation about a refereeing decision before? Did they apologise to Scotland after the World Cup last year?

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:57 pm

They did didn't they?

Or should have!

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 9:59 pm

ebop wrote:No they are over penalised because teams can't beat them and washed up hasbeens like Guscott and hack NH journalists write columns about how dastardly the All Blacks are and how referees need to punish them. And that is what happens. Peyper only issued 4 penalties against Ireland when it should have been far higher for the type of minor infringements the All Blacks were getting pinged off the park with and pretty much handing the game to Ireland on a plate. The fact Ireland, with all that advantage and possession couldn't score a single try is an indictment on their game plan, skill and execution in a high stakes game against the best.

You're such a whinger, ebop. You should be more like us and chill a bit Cool

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:10 pm

Haha yes, we should all chill but it's fun having something to nut out isn't it? Don't reckon anyone is getting personal so that's good.

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:13 pm

And the biggest of all chokers in modern history Wayne Barnes paved the way for this blind refereeing ignorance

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Post by Guest Fri 25 Nov 2016, 10:29 pm

ebop wrote:Haha yes, we should all chill but it's fun having something to nut out isn't it? Don't reckon anyone is getting personal so that's good.

Glad you didn't take me seriously Smile

Don't think anyone has really been too personal. It's more fun blaming the ref anyway. I'm sure you will plenty of fun after tomorrows game Very Happy

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Post by marty2086 Sat 26 Nov 2016, 11:47 am

So Kieran Brookes sent off last night for Saints for the shoulder making contact with an opposition players face, apparently World Rugby clarified this week that its a red card.

Imagine that...

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Post by Gwlad Sat 26 Nov 2016, 12:23 pm

marty2086 wrote:So Kieran Brookes sent off last night for Saints for the shoulder making contact with an opposition players face, apparently World Rugby clarified this week that its a red card.

Imagine that...

this is Frak insane. How can you stop your shoulder hitting a man's face in rugby? Shocked

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Post by Guest Sat 26 Nov 2016, 12:54 pm

marty2086 wrote:So Kieran Brookes sent off last night for Saints for the shoulder making contact with an opposition players face, apparently World Rugby clarified this week that its a red card.

Imagine that...

Same for Glasgow:

RedCard

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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 26 Nov 2016, 12:58 pm

These cases were obviously intentional as only a rank novice with no pitch awareness could commit such a challenge accidentally.

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Post by marty2086 Sat 26 Nov 2016, 2:03 pm

The Great Aukster wrote:These cases were obviously intentional as only a rank novice with no pitch awareness could commit such a challenge accidentally.

It doesn't matter if its accidental though, the ruling is ANY contact with the head is a red card yet World Rugbys own panel ruled differently

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Post by The Great Aukster Sat 26 Nov 2016, 2:25 pm

I thought the ruling from World Rugby was that ANY contact with the head is a red card... unless you're an All Black in which case it's called 'accidental' to get you off?

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Sun 27 Nov 2016, 6:04 pm

uncle_nigel wrote:
munkian wrote:
uncle_nigel wrote:
marty2086 wrote:
lostinwales wrote:I was under the impression that the yellow card was for cumulative incidents as much as for the one at the particular moment he got done.


It was, think it was the third time he was deemed have done it

Took the words out of my big mouth, and the team offences by the ABs didn't stop there! I don't see any quotations in the article but if this story is true then I'm mystified. These guys are making it easy to dislike the ABs which would be a shame as I enjoy watching them.

"The All Blacks get caned as much, if not more, than other teams, says Hansen." True except they don't get yellow/red carded for it, nowhere near as often as the rest of us. Some have a word please.

Is that fact or opinion - because if its fact you can quite easily back it up.



What are you referring to exactly? If it is receiving less card's than other teams despite committing as many offences then it is backed up. The investigation is a little outdated now but as far as I can tell not much has changed since then.


The stat suggesting that NZ get less cards per penalty than Aus/SA is a couple of years (at least) old. For what it's worth, in this year's TRC in matches involving NZ, NZ were penalised 59 times with 3 YC's, while their opponents were penalised 62 times with 2 YCs.
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Post by marty2086 Sun 27 Nov 2016, 7:28 pm

Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
The stat suggesting that NZ get less cards per penalty than Aus/SA is a couple of years (at least) old. For what it's worth, in this year's TRC in matches involving NZ, NZ were penalised 59 times with 3 YC's, while their opponents were penalised 62 times with 2 YCs.

I missed most of the RC this year but if they were acting like they have since coming north Id say there should probably be more cards for them.

Against France I saw Savea go head first, no arms to clear out a ruck and only a penalty given. It was on a guys arm too, in the melee that followed it, Scott Barrett seemed to try and headbutt a French player.

In the past the ABs have pushed the limits, we have all seen it. It used to be coming out of the defence line that split second early, hands in the ruck, not rolling away as fast as they could. It was the little things where it was within the grey area of interpretation and milking it better than any other team, this team though seem to have a different mentality where they don't just operate in a grey area but cross lines

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Post by Pete C (Kiwireddevil) Sun 27 Nov 2016, 8:04 pm

marty2086 wrote:
Pete C (Kiwireddevil) wrote:
The stat suggesting that NZ get less cards per penalty than Aus/SA is a couple of years (at least) old. For what it's worth, in this year's TRC in matches involving NZ, NZ were penalised 59 times with 3 YC's, while their opponents were penalised 62 times with 2 YCs.

I missed most of the RC this year but if they were acting like they have since coming north Id say there should probably be more cards for them.

Against France I saw Savea go head first, no arms to clear out a ruck and only a penalty given. It was on a guys arm too, in the melee that followed it, Scott Barrett seemed to try and headbutt a French player.

In the past the ABs have pushed the limits, we have all seen it. It used to be coming out of the defence line that split second early, hands in the ruck, not rolling away as fast as they could. It was the little things where it was within the grey area of interpretation and milking it better than any other team, this team though seem to have a different mentality where they don't just operate in a grey area but cross lines


Possibly. Though you can look at any team in a given match and say they could have gotten more cards. Both NZ and Ireland could have earned several more last Saturday for instance.
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