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Most perfectly rated current international player.

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Post by wolfball Thu 1 Dec - 15:39

So, most players are under rated or over rated and that debate usually depends what country the fan and player is from. I am more fascinated by players that everyone regards as well rated by anyone. Now that rating might be low (every fan knows he is terrible) or might be high (every fan knows he's the best in the world (Mccaw at peak)) but which players would you say are currently perfectly rated?

I think heaslip is an example of a current perfectly rated player, with few if any over rating him, and after his great 2016 few underrating him...

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Post by No 7&1/2 Thu 1 Dec - 15:55

Hard to say for England. Probably Joseph and Watson.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 16:00

AWJ

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 16:00

Hartley

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Post by RuggerRadge2611 Thu 1 Dec - 16:03

Hogg.

Widely recognized as one of the most lethal and potent attacking threats in the world from full back but can be a bit wobbly in defence.
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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 16:03

Faletau,

Hooper,

Quade Cooper - everybody knows he's a genius in that everything he has is all natural gut instinct - and everyone knows he's as mad as a sack of hungry cats.

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Post by lostinwales Thu 1 Dec - 16:06

I still think Joseph is underrated. I don't think 13 is a strength in NH rugby. JD2 hasn't really kicked on from his early promise. Payne is good but arguably a better 15. Jones and Bennett promising for Scotland but not yet the full package. And then there is Joseph - who is - and yet he's not often sneaking into popular choices for Lions center.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 16:09

Ringrose, if he gets genuine time there, will certainly reshuffle the idea of 13 in Ireland again. Payne is a different version of a 13 but Ringrose has a sniff of BOD.


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Post by Mad for Chelsea Thu 1 Dec - 16:17

Love Ringrose, bags of potential. For me Payne's always looked more comfortable at 15, but I understand he brings a lot to the side at 13 too, also in terms of defensive organisation.

In terms of the thread, does Duncan Weir count? Everyone knows he's gash...

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 16:27

Weir used to have a tremendous boot, kicking points from far far out. Haven't really had a look at him closely enough in recent times. Can he still do that? I thought he'd become quite good so disappointed in a way that he seems to have found his limit quickly Whistle

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Post by Geordie Thu 1 Dec - 16:31

Johnny May - Flanker, certainty for the lions!

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Post by rodders Thu 1 Dec - 17:21

Josh Van der Flier.

Not rated too high, not rated too low, just bang on the money.
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Post by GunsGermsV2 Thu 1 Dec - 17:37

Alex Goode - (crap and everyone knows it)

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Post by wolfball Thu 1 Dec - 17:45

lostinwales wrote:I still think Joseph is underrated. I don't think 13 is a strength in NH rugby. JD2 hasn't really kicked on from his early promise. Payne is good but arguably a better 15. Jones and Bennett promising for Scotland but not yet the full package. And then there is Joseph - who is - and yet he's not often sneaking into popular choices for Lions center.

Agree, i think he is underrated. A fantastic player and I would have him start for the lions.

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Thu 1 Dec - 17:48

I would too

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Post by Maine man Thu 1 Dec - 18:13

Robshaw. Underrated by Eddie Jones before he took over now Eddie rates him.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 18:25

Maine man wrote:Robshaw. Underrated by Eddie Jones before he took over now Eddie rates him.

Eddie was always wrong. Eddie was an ass when he first came in and decided one of his most honest players was up for a morale take down.


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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 18:27

Incidently, good fresh approach take on an often repeated thread, wolf OK

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Post by king_carlos Thu 1 Dec - 19:10

Launchbury is a guy who always seems similarly rated by fans from various countries when you talk to them. Widely regarded as an excellent player who could keep getting better.

Similar for Jonny Gray and Iain Henderson in the same position.

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Post by thebandwagonsociety Thu 1 Dec - 20:57

king_carlos wrote:Launchbury is a guy who always seems similarly rated by fans from various countries when you talk to them. Widely regarded as an excellent player who could keep getting better.

Similar for Jonny Gray and Iain Henderson in the same position.

Good shouts all of them.  Locks aren't the glamour players usually and these are a similar mold. They are the kinds of players that you only notice when they aren't playing and are left thinking 'something was missing from our pack today'.

Lawes and Itoje get the glamour and rave reviews, but their really just oversized flankers ;-) And flankers get the journo love.

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Post by Guest Thu 1 Dec - 21:14

This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped Sad

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Post by wolfball Thu 1 Dec - 21:15

SecretFly wrote:Incidently, good fresh approach take on an often repeated thread, wolf OK

Ha cheers, though can't claim it as original, someone had a post on the most perfectly rated bands in music a few years ago that came into my head, and i wondered what the equivalent in rugby might be thumbsup

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Post by wolfball Thu 1 Dec - 21:19

Launchbury is the best one for me listed so far as properly rated.

I think Barret is also a good shout as def not under rated and arguably impossible to over-rate after his last 12 months.

I also think past players like John Hayes were so often spoken as being under-rated there was a brief point where he was perfectly rated, before he then became over rated.

I can't think of any welsh player that fits the bill, they all seem over or under rated to me.

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 21:25

Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped Sad

I named one, damn it! Faletau! And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

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Post by Guest Thu 1 Dec - 21:54

SecretFly wrote:
Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped Sad

I named one, damn it!  Faletau!  And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

AWJ?! He's completely marmite! He's either on the plane to NZ with the Lions, some even say captain, or he's washing boots back in Swansea!

Faletau, yes I think most people would say he's pretty solid and good without being awesome (to be honest I've actually called him overrated on the past! And that was while he was still at the Dragons).

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 22:46

Griff wrote:
SecretFly wrote:
Griff wrote:This is actually much harder than I thought! Good thread. Each Welsh player I think of has both fans and detractors.

So....... Ummmm.......

No, I'm stumped Sad

I named one, damn it!  Faletau!  And I think AWJ has a balanced reputation too - nobody says he's the second coming but everyone respects his grit, heart and ability

AWJ?! He's completely marmite!

He's marmite to idiots who don't have a clue. Oh sorry for offending any 606ers! Yous are of course all experts innit. We're the brainiest rugby guys on the block. But if yis think AWJ is an eejit then..... well, even experts can be fools. Run

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Post by bsando Thu 1 Dec - 22:54

Conor Murray - My starting 9 for Lions and an excellent all round player

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Post by SecretFly Thu 1 Dec - 23:05

Shocked
Just goes to show you that we don't all necessarily champion all of our own. I've been hot, luke-warm and cold on Murray all his professional career to date. It continued even to this AI season. One game sublime, another game much too casual.

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Post by king_carlos Thu 1 Dec - 23:39

I know the post is 'current international player' but thinking of days gone by I can't come up with a more universally rated player than Marty Holah.

Pretty much anyone you heard speak about him would say the exact same things. Fantastic player, proper openside but so unlucky to be an All Black in the same era as McCaw.

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Post by Gwlad Fri 2 Dec - 0:44

Faletau, Murray and Hogg are standouts


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Post by Gooseberry Fri 2 Dec - 10:00

Phil Vickery

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Post by beshocked Fri 2 Dec - 10:12

I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

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Post by SecretFly Fri 2 Dec - 12:59

beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Ouch!  It's pointed how much Ireland all of a sudden has come under the cross-hairs of English commentators.  That's nice.  Just like the ABs themselves, it's nice to be noticed for a change rather than ignored - given we've been in 2nd place earlier in recent years than England have managed it with their unlimited supply of science, infrastructure and player base.
It's nice to think we're beginning to become important enough again to be getting some lovely negative propaganda driven our way.  I'm sure Jones will really get that party going come January or so.  You'll of course be with him in the trenches, slinging the juicy mudshots Smile

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Post by rodders Fri 2 Dec - 13:38

beshocked wrote:
The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.


2 wins, we put Canada to the sword too.
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Post by lostinwales Fri 2 Dec - 14:07

Re: wins over AB's. England did it. We thought we were world beaters for a few minutes. Didn't work out.

Just saying.....

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Post by SecretFly Fri 2 Dec - 14:14

lostinwales wrote:Re: wins over AB's. England did it. We thought we were world beaters for a few minutes. Didn't work out.

Just saying.....

Em...., the thing is we already know we're not world beaters..... as we got a quick resetting of the old order a few weeks ago, when the ABs beat us (up Cool ) again.  Who exactly is telling us something we don't already know?

We're 4th.  We'd like to be 3rd, 2nd or even 1st. Wink  We'll keep trying.  But apologies again to those people who seem to think it offensive to have the same dreams as Jones and his boys.  We most humbly beg beshocked's pardon.

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Post by funnyExiledScot Fri 2 Dec - 14:18

Gooseberry wrote:Phil Vickery

Good call. We'll miss him when he retires.

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Post by Guest Fri 2 Dec - 14:25

Yeah SecretFly, Ireland don't want to be number 1 like England do. It's like just different.

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Post by Bind up Fri 2 Dec - 14:27

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Post by R!skysports Fri 2 Dec - 14:34

SecretFly wrote:
beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Ouch!  It's pointed how much Ireland all of a sudden has come under the cross-hairs of English commentators.  That's nice.  Just like the ABs themselves, it's nice to be noticed for a change rather than ignored - given we've been in 2nd place earlier in recent years than England have managed it with their unlimited supply of science, infrastructure and player base.
It's nice to think we're beginning to become important enough again to be getting some lovely negative propaganda driven our way.  I'm sure Jones will really get that party going come January or so.  You'll of course be with him in the trenches, slinging the juicy mudshots Smile


I think you will find he get massive criticism - repeatedly




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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:37

beshocked wrote:I would say Hogg is a bit overrated. Good player sure but lacks control at times and doesn't get criticised for his flaws. Compare that to Mr Angry - Mike Brown.

Disagree about Heaslip. Shouldn't have been nominated for world player of the year - overrated 2016 form.

The Irish IMO have got a bit overexcited because of the win over NZ. Great win sure but need to maintain consistency. The disappointing RWC performance, 6 nations and a tour of a mediocre SA team have been extinguished from the memory.

Everything is right in the world because of that 1 win.

Murray and Launchbury are probably right though.

Id say the English are building themselves up for a fall again as usual. I reckon it will be fairly spectacular when it happens particularly because Eddie Jones is such a motor mouth. He is certainly priming himself to be the stand out fall guy.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:47

What would you see as a fall?

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:49

No 7&1/2 wrote:What would you see as a fall?

Losing to Italy or Scotland.

It has to happen at some stage.
Or finishing 3rd or below in the 6 nations.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:51

Not for a while at the moment. But yes that will happen one day.

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Post by Cyril Fri 2 Dec - 14:54

Guns has basically said that England will have a period when they're not doing as well as now, at some point in the future.

Gamble responsibly, young man Smile

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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:54

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not for a while at the moment. But yes that will happen one day.

You never know. I wouldn't be surprised if England finished 3rd. All that has to happen is you lose one game and there is a good chance they will lose to Ireland in Dublin.

Also France have vastly improved if their last game serves as an indicator and Wales are always better in the six nations than in the November series.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:57

I'd be very surprised. We're inching ahead at the moment along with Ireland. Ireland have a very good chance of losing to England in Dublin as well after all.


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Post by GunsGermsV2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:58

Cyril wrote:Guns has basically said that England will have a period when they're not doing as well as now, at some point in the future.

Gamble responsibly, young man Smile

England are quite prone to thinking they are better than they actually are. It is amusing when the reality check inevitably comes.

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Post by No 7&1/2 Fri 2 Dec - 14:59

Where would you rate us? Take it you don't believe we're 2nd best in the world?

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Post by beshocked Fri 2 Dec - 14:59

lostinwales indeed. We thought it was the start of something great. Didn't work out like that.


Gunsgermsv2 No England still have a long way to go. 2nd in world is good but still work to be done.

I think it's great Ireland beat NZ and makes the 6 nations and Lions selection next year more interesting but doesn't mean Heaslip should have been nominated for world player of the year.

It's not just Ireland, generally a big win, whoever it's for can make people ignore their problems.

Look at Wales when they beat England in the RWC. Look at England vs NZ as LIW says. A big win can bring elation but a team must back it up.

Ireland are a good side but more work to be done.

It's funny how quickly things have changed in international rugby.

In the RWC, the SH sides dominated, England humiliated, Ireland humbled, France crushed, no NH side in the semis.

Fast forward a year later - SA humiliated,NZ humbled, Australia beaten in their backyard and losing to Ireland, Argentina being embarrassed.



Scotland and Italy are more likely to beat England in 2018 at their own grounds. Though I guess sometimes you never quite know.


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