Live Fight Thread

[Pedro147]

First topic message reminder :

Anybody watching tonight?

Hard to see Paulie losing like that, a shell of himself. Hopefully he calls it a day. Pretty poor card so far, not that I expected differently.

[Nico the gman]

The injury to Haye turned the fight on its head, but for me Haye hadn't boxed that well, 16st 9 is far too heavy for him, should have been under 16st,  lack of inactivity meant his timing was way off so he was missing badly. As luck would have it Bellew isn't a big puncher otherwise this wouldn't have been going to the 11th round.

Haye has been beaten by a fighter who is a bang average Cruiser and wasn't that great at Light Heavy, its a poor, poor result regardless of the injury, because Haye should have been good enough to have Bellew out of there well before the injury and he wasn't, its at least saved Haye from getting knocked cold by Joshua.

Its time for Haye to call it a day, talked the talk as usual, but once again failed to deliver. I think Bellew's camp must have done their homework because Haye looks finished.

Bellew should drop back down to Cruiser because 1st decent Heavy he meets knocks him out.

[catchweight]

I think Matchroom will see Bellew now as a "ppv" fighter so they will be keen to keep him at heavyweight. With money in the bank now Bellew doesnt look to keen to box on too much longer. I reckon they will offer to one of the champs in a ppv fight in Britain which will be good news for Bellew finacially but will probably see him get knocked out. Deosnt make much sense for him to go back to cruiser now.

Haye will always have a brand that makes him an attractive opponent so still wouldnt rule him out of resurfacing again in the future if he sees some decent money on offer. He looked pretty mediocre last night, but I have never seen him look particularly good at heavyweight. Certainly nothing to warrant his reputation.

[Guest]

Yup humble pie alround. A wins a win and irrespective of the injury it wasn't the three round blowout most of us called. Fair play to bellew.

Ho hum, can we talk about Garcia Thurman instead

Just watched this and was a decent fight. Didn't score it but a Thurman win for me, seemed the busier fighter with the bigger punches.

Would like to see Thurman vs Brook, provided Brook wins his next fight, would fancy Brook to win.

[Herman Jaeger]

I gave it to Thurman but strange as this may sound I wouldn't have minded a draw

Thurman was running a little too much in the last couple of rounds fighting scared according to some

Garcia can come again and be in some good fights actually(he'd be a very good light welter if he settled there,) he's a tough mf and was the aggressor the last part of the fight when you thought at the start of the contest he might wilt

Thurman failed to impress in the second half of what was a fairly average fight

But please let's have Thurman in with the winner of Brook/Spence at the end of this year

[compelling and rich]

go against the grain here and say that thought bellew was coming into it before the injury. thought haye was looking tired and threw and missed alot more than he normally would. he's never had great stamina and inactivity with his age think it was even worse. he looked dead on his feet (even his good one)

biggest surprise was bellew being able to take hayes best shots which i never thought he would be able to do, was it around 3/4 when haye landed two clean shots and it didnt even effect bellew

[hazharrison]

Bellew was definitely in the fight, despite Haye having a slight edge due to the threat of a big punch and some decent jabbing to the body. I don't think Haye was a certain winner, though, had his Achilles not popped.

Haye definitely doesn't throw the right hand like he used to (which Bellew and Coldwell pointed out pre-fight). He was much slower, bulkier and his timing was a mile off (which tends to happen when you're off so long and fight a couple of bouncers on your return).

The most surprising thing for me was Haye's ability to take as many shots as he did, Bellew gave him an absolute pounding through rounds 6 and 7.

[melv500]

Haye is finished. I've never seen him look so awful. His speed is gone, his timing was miles out and he just looks nowhere near as agile. You can't take so much time out the sport and expect to return back to where you were. He needs to buillf up again but it's too late. He should retire now I'm my opinion.

You have to give credit to Bellew who did box well and was better than I thought. I don't think he'd had have won without the injury but maybe picked up a few more rounds. Had it gone to points then Haye didn't break a sweat really and was dictating the pace. Maybe Bellew would have tried to force and walked on to one. I can't say with certainty but I'd def would have bet on Haye having seen what I did before the injury.

[EX7EY]

go against the grain here and say that thought bellew was coming into it before the injury. thought haye was looking tired and threw and missed alot more than he normally would. he's never had great stamina and inactivity with his age think it was even worse. he looked dead on his feet (even his good one)

biggest surprise was bellew being able to take hayes best shots which i never thought he would be able to do, was it around 3/4 when haye landed two clean shots and it didnt even effect bellew

Yeah Haye landed a straight right and a crisp left hook combo clean as a whistle it didn't look like it had much effect on Bellew.

[EX7EY]

I think even before the injury happened it's fair to say that Haye is a shadow of his peak self.

I wonder whether he has know this himself all along, it would explain the two joke comeback fights last year and then nothing else bar talking about the AJ fight.

Rumours are that he's skint, and by skint im sure we are not talking zero funds but skint in terms of a high profile sportsman.

So, get in shape, announce come back, fight a couple of walk overs to make a few quid and put yourself in the shop window, call out AJ, get squashed, make millions, retire again happily.

Only then you have a Cruiserweight shouting your name and the fight makes financial sense in itself. So in his head Haye thinks there is no way Bellew can beat him even though he knows he's a shell of himself. He thinks he'll land a big one and it will be game over. He makes a packet for an easy nights work and the AJ fight will come next for more riches.

Only the reality actually unfolded that Bellew could actually take a shot and things went wrong for Haye.

It might not be exactly like that but I actually don't think I'm a million miles away with that assesment. I think Haye either retires or rematches Bellew if it can be done because the money will be there again and how is he going to get a route back into the heavyweight mix now on the back of that?

[melv500]

I think that could be a pretty fair assessment. Just to add maybe his power has gone especially on his right hand. He had a very serious shoulder injury and maybe explains why he's bulked up to try and make it stronger.

I think you are right he thought he could walk through Bellew with less power then get the AJ fight. But now his Achilles has gone as well as the shoulder injury makes me think his body just can't take the training/fights anymore. He looked a shadow of himself and even if he got the Bellew rematch it could be the same outcome.

[Scottrf]

Yeah Haye landed a straight right and a crisp left hook combo clean as a whistle it didn't look like it had much effect on Bellew.

True, but he landed a total of about 4 decent punches. The narrative that it was a war, Bellew went into the trenches and walked through his best punches is grating a bit.

Haye was wild, missing hugely with speculative swings. He was winning rounds through his control of the ring and Bellews low work rate more than anything. Don't feel like either come out with much credit, it was a low quality display.

For Bellew to be worn out after 5 rounds of a low paced fight where he didn't take many punches is absolutely shocking for a professional boxer.

[EX7EY]

I think that could be a pretty fair assessment. Just to add maybe his power has gone especially on his right hand. He had a very serious shoulder injury and maybe explains why he's bulked up to try and make it stronger.

I think you are right he thought he could walk through Bellew with less power then get the AJ fight. But now his Achilles has gone as well as the shoulder injury makes me think his body just can't take the training/fights anymore. He looked a shadow of himself and even if he got the Bellew rematch it could be the same outcome.

Agree with that, I don't think you can have major surgery on your shoulder post 30 years old and come back just as strong as before .

I had a my right cruciate ligament rebuilt when I was 21 following a football injury and even though it's fixed it's never been the same. I appreciate these guys get top level surgeons, after care and rehab but I just can't see how it can't effect him, even if not physically then definitel mentally.

Personally I think Haye will retire now. I think if this injury is as serious as it looked then coming back would be fool hardy. He must have made a tidy packet from this fight so there can't be any real need to fight on unless the guys in serious debt! He's in danger of making a mess of his record in my opinion.

[BoxingFan88]

Haye's feet were glued to the canvas, he isn't the same fighter, he isn't as fast or as fleet footed either. I'm not going to pretend for one second that is the same David Haye

But lets not take anything away from Bellew, we all knew this and still thought it was an easy win, even with Haye at 70-80%

we always try and take away someones victory with excuses, he won fair and square, Bellew deserves huge credit, its a huge huge win

Would like to see Bellew move back down and take on the sharks in the cruiserweight division (There are plenty of them its a stacked division, one of the most stacked in boxing)

If he wants to have one big pay day then retire, good luck to him

[EX7EY]

Im with you BoxingFan88. It's always the same in boxing, excuses excuses excuses. Nobody wants to give the credit when it's due.

Good win for Bellew, injuries happen, it's boxing. People saying it's embarassing that it took him 5 rounds to get rid of Haye because of the injury but they are just bitter IMO. Really they are doing Haye a disservice because he actually showed some serious grit. Not only to carry on with the injury but he did take some shots and he kept coming.

You could literally disect every boxing match with if's and but's but when all said and done it's the result that matters. The way some people are talking you would think Bellew was getting comprehensively destroyed until the injury but that was nowhere near the case.

I'm happy to give Bellew his dues, I thought even if Haye was 50% of his former self he'd still dispatch Tony quickly, but he couldn't.

[BoxingFan88]

Im with you BoxingFan88. It's always the same in boxing, excuses excuses excuses. Nobody wants to give the credit when it's due.

Good win for Bellew, injuries happen, it's boxing. People saying it's embarassing that it took him 5 rounds to get rid of Haye because of the injury but they are just bitter IMO. Really they are doing Haye a disservice because he actually showed some serious grit. Not only to carry on with the injury but he did take some shots and he kept coming.

You could literally disect every boxing match with if's and but's but when all said and done it's the result that matters. The way some people are talking you would think Bellew was getting comprehensively destroyed until the injury but that was nowhere near the case.

I'm happy to give Bellew his dues, I thought even if Haye was 50% of his former self he'd still dispatch Tony quickly, but he couldn't.

Its the Lacy treatment, when someone they are sure is going to win loses, he was a "Hype Job" "Never beat anyone good"

Bet you if Brook smashes Spence they will say the same thing

But I'm not having it, no one gave Bellew a prayer and he won, so suck it up

Bellew still WON, he fought with a broken hand against a dangerous puncher, I mean no one leaps in on Haye, you would have to be an idiot

Perfect game plan and perfect strategy and he even told you exactly what he was going to do, team Haye should have listened

I think if Haye could get fit again, he can still win that fight, he just needs to be less careless and use his boxing skills, he tried to blow Bellew away recklessly and that was a really really dumb strategy, he wasn't setting anything up at all

Also this proves that we DKSAB, we can say what we think will happen all the time, but most of the time we get it completely wrong

Until that first bell goes and you see them in the ring, its anyone's guess

As soon as I saw Bellew in the first 2 rounds I saw he had a fantastic game plan and as long as he didn't get flattened with one shot, he had a chance to drag Haye into a long fight and come out on top

[melv500]

I agree Bellew derserves credut for his performance. He did well to make it to the 6th round pretty much unscathed which nobody thought he would do. However you cannot ignore the injury which turned the fight on its head. I think Haye surprised us all how well he took the shots just as well as Bellew surprised us with the few he took. It was an unusual fight but Bellew won fair and square which you can't take away from him. I still think he'd have lost without the injury but woukd have done himself very very proud. However I don't understand why Bellew is getting flack as you can only beat what's in front of you.

[EX7EY]

Agree again BF88. Haye put himself under a lot of pressure to end it quickly because of everything he said in th build up. Which explains his wild swinging. He just wanted to land one clean Hayemaker from the word go but just like Carl Froch was saying at the time, it doesn;t work lik that in boxing. It may do when you are fighting cherry picked bums like De Mori and that other fella but even if you don't rate Bellew, he ain't no mug that's gonna get blasted out by single shot bombs.

And I agree that Haye can probably still get the W if they meet again but not if he tries the same stuff again.

[EX7EY]

I agree Bellew derserves credut for his performance. He did well to make it to the 6th round pretty much unscathed which nobody thought he would do. However you cannot ignore the injury which turned the fight on its head. I think Haye surprised us all how well he took the shots just as well as Bellew surprised us with the few he took. It was an unusual fight but Bellew won fair and square which you can't take away from him. I still think he'd have lost without the injury but woukd have done himself very very proud. However I don't understand why Bellew is getting flack as you can only beat what's in front of you.

Also agree with this (I seem to be agreeing a lot today haha). You definitely can't dismiss the injury, in fact I also think Haye probably would have gone on to win if it hadn't have occured but we can never say. I also think he probably would have won on points and it would still have looked bad on him.

Boxing is a combat sport at the end of the day and injuries are part and parcel.

I don;t do this whole if and but thing that everybody likes to do after the fact becase you could say that about anything. Next t will be 'so and so only won because he landed that left hook in the 11th round, it would have been a different result otherwise'....know what I mean? We'd be here all day!

[BoxingFan88]

Haye was definitely winning the fight, but Bellew had just changed gears and ramped up the pressure, so who knows what would have happened anyway?

We can't say for sure, its all ifs and buts

What about Sergio Martinez absolutely schooling Chavez Jr for 11 rounds and then nearly gets KOed in the 12th

Anything can happen in boxing at any given moment, one of the reasons why I love it

[Hammersmith harrier]

The situations are completely different; getting legitimately knocked out is part of boxing like say Froch/Taylor but tearing your Achilles tendon is an act of god so to speak, it was the only way Bellew was going to win.

Hayes movement and raggedness from the start still suggests to me he knew something was up going into the fight and needed to end it ASAP, for all his faults he's usually a controlled operator often too controlled.

[TopHat24/7]

Hold my hands up, called this completely wrong.

Haye, beach body aside, looks shot to pieces.

In a fight I wanted both to lose, this is probably the best result possible, Haye finally f*cks off from existence and Bell gets the signature win that'll keep his head down and campaign back at CW hopefully.

[hazharrison]

I did suspect Haye would look poor after the layoff and injuries (he looked poor against those puddings he fought but the KOs masked it a bit).

[Guest82]

I think even before the injury happened it's fair to say that Haye is a shadow of his peak self.

I wonder whether he has know this himself all along, it would explain the two joke comeback fights last year and then nothing else bar talking about the AJ fight.

Rumours are that he's skint, and by skint im sure we are not talking zero funds but skint in terms of a high profile sportsman.

So, get in shape, announce come back, fight a couple of walk overs to make a few quid and put yourself in the shop window, call out AJ, get squashed, make millions, retire again happily.

Only then you have a Cruiserweight shouting your name and the fight makes financial sense in itself. So in his head Haye thinks there is no way Bellew can beat him even though he knows he's a shell of himself. He thinks he'll land a big one and it will be game over. He makes a packet for an easy nights work and the AJ fight will come next for more riches.

Only the reality actually unfolded that Bellew could actually take a shot and things went wrong for Haye.

It might not be exactly like that but I actually don't think I'm a million miles away with that assesment. I think Haye either retires or rematches Bellew if it can be done because the money will be there again and how is he going to get a route back into the heavyweight mix now on the back of that?

I think this is exactly what has happened with Haye. He figured he could knock over a few bums and land a PPV pay day against Joshua or (at the time he came back) Tyson Fury.

Bellew calling him out worked for him, as a) it would earn well and b) he expected to win easily. In the first few rounds he was swinging wildly, expecting he would land one sooner or later and that would be the end of it. Actually think before the injury he had settled down and realised he needed to be a bit more controlled.

Maybe he did know he was injured and that was why he was trying to get it finished early.

I think Haye wins if no injury.

[hazharrison]

Regardless of who we think might have won (who knows?) it was a bloody dramatic fight - thoroughly enjoyable!

[EX7EY]

Regardless of who we think might have won (who knows?) it was a bloody dramatic fight - thoroughly enjoyable!

It was. Good viewing in all honesty especially when you consider it was getting absolutely panned by full time boxing fans. Eddie will be absolutely buzzing

[Herman Jaeger]

The way Bellew pushed Eddie off when Eddie went to embrace him..

What do we make of that?

[Scottrf]

Hold my hands up, called this completely wrong.

Haye, beach body aside, looks shot to pieces.  

In a fight I wanted both to lose, this is probably the best result possible, Haye finally f*cks off from existence and Bell gets the signature win that'll keep his head down and campaign back at CW hopefully.

He's hinted at retirement.

[melv500]

The way Bellew pushed Eddie off when Eddie went to embrace him..

What do we make of that?

The only reason I can think of is maybe he knew he was in talks with Haye about an AJ bout later in the summer. Obviously Haye would have had to won to get that.

[melv500]

http://www.skysports.com/boxing/news/12040/10792520/david-haye-has-ruled-out-retirement-and-will-fight-again-says-carl-froch

Looks like Haye isnt done yet so probably a few more bills to pay. He cant seriously be staying as he thinks he can win world titles now. Likes its been said he looked awful Saturday with less speed, power and footwork.

[Herman Jaeger]

There's still plenty of fight left in Haye imo and a couple of nice paydays still to be had

[melv500]

I don't doubt people will still flock in their thousands to watch him but do you think he can be competitive now in the HW division after watching him Saturday?

[Herman Jaeger]

Short answer yes but I can see why people think he won't

You could say he was just starting to find his range before the injury

No doubting his bottle after Saturday too

[melv500]

Agreed he showed a lot of heart but to me he just looked slow, timing was so bad which used to be so good and the power looks off. Who knows maybe it was a one off but just too many negatives over his skills and body for me.

I guess onr thing for sure is it looks like we will find out.

[Herman Jaeger]

Everyone's entitled to an off night

[Guest82]

I think Haye was just convinced he needed to land once and Bellew would fold. He was loading up with power shots and not boxing at all.

Once he realised Bellew wasn't going to walk onto one and started boxing I thought he looked well in control. Then he got injured...

I wouldn't conclude that Haye is finished from that fight.

[Herman Jaeger]

Nightmare scenario would be after seven or eight months recuperation/physio for the injury to reoccur in the first round of his next fight

It's bound to affect him mentally till he's got a good few rounds under his belt

[Guest82]

Read today that Haye earned around £4m for the fight. Unless he's in a lot of debt, that should be enough for him to retire on.

I suppose, if he can get fit again quickly enough, the Bellew rematch will earn well for him again and should he win open the door to Joshua.

[Herman Jaeger]

It's all about the Joshua fight for Haye and that mega payday he'd never retire with that in his sights

[Tegs]

Agree with the majority that it was an entertaining fight even after the injury.

After the 5th I was convinced that Haye had found his range and was closing in on taking Bellew out, but we all know what happened next.

If Haye did know he had a dodgy tendon, I do question his footwear. Couldn't he have worn something a bit more supportive ala Andy Murray with his dodgy ankles? Also his corner surely should have had some better tape if they knew there was a risk? Or maybe the doctor in Munich really did give him the all clear so they were confident.

Anyway, for me Haye came in too heavy for the opposition and Bellew used his speed well. As others have said if Haye does come back he should come in lighter, will put less stress on those old bones.

Credit to both, Bellew showed more than I thought he would, and Haye showed guts to keep on fighting. The victory is a little hollow, but a win's a win. The fight was enjoyable, but the after fight interviews and Sky coverage were extremely cringe worthy!

A question though, what would have happened if Haye had not fought on after the 6th? Would it have gone to the cards?

[TopHat24/7]

A question though, what would have happened if Haye had not fought on after the 6th?  Would it have gone to the cards?

Would it go to a technical decision or something like that??

[Scottrf]

No. Withdrawal through injury is a loss. Cards are only for cuts from a headbutt.

[Steffan]

What fight is next now for David 'Little Dog' Haye?

My money is either on a rematch which the pubic want after Haye battling through a horrific injury against working class family man Tony Bellew

That being said...Haye gets about 300 emails a day asking him to knocking Shannon 'The Cannon' Briggs...LET'S GO CHAMP...and Haye always gives the public what they want

Or what about Audley Harrison 2?

[BoxingFan88]

No. Withdrawal through injury is a loss. Cards are only for cuts from a headbutt.

Spot on

The number of people who have said Haye should have retired after 6 is amazing

Think Vitali Klitschko vs Chris Byrd

[melv500]

No. Withdrawal through injury is a loss. Cards are only for cuts from a headbutt.

Spot on

The number of people who have said Haye should have retired after 6 is amazing

Think Vitali Klitschko vs Chris Byrd

I didn't know the exact rule, thanks!! What if a cut was caused by other means accidentally? For example I remember Vitali after fighting Lewis claimed the cut was caused by the inside of the gloves so the laces scrapped down his face and cut him. Say the referees saw that at the time and declared it as the cause and fight was stopped would it have gone to the cards?

[Hammersmith harrier]

No. Withdrawal through injury is a loss. Cards are only for cuts from a headbutt.

Spot on

The number of people who have said Haye should have retired after 6 is amazing

Think Vitali Klitschko vs Chris Byrd

I didn't know the exact rule, thanks!! What if a cut was caused by other means accidentally? For example I remember Vitali after fighting Lewis claimed the cut was caused by the inside of the gloves so the laces scrapped down his face and cut him. Say the referees saw that at the time  and declared it as the cause and fight was stopped would it have gone to the cards?

That cut would be a grey area but the other four cuts on his face would still have seen the fight stopped in favour of Lewis, it was ultimately still caused by a punch so wouldn't go to the cards.

[Guest]

Bellew created this fight.  He called Haye out, offered Haye the chance to fight him, agreed to fight at heavyweight, took all the risks.  Bellew even outdid Haye for trash talk.  Haye's reputation for trash talk leading up the Wladimir klitschko fight took the sport to new lows, with him sporting a t-shirt showing the decapitated heads of the klitschko brothers.  So it was good to see Bellew give Haye some of his own medicine in the lead up to the fight.  Bellew is quick witted,  smart and brave.  The heavyweight division does contain a lot of dross, so there may be some fights at heavyweight for him out there, except the money fights will be for proper heavyweight boxers very likely to be capable of knocking him out.  Bellew says he is thinking of retiring.  Maybe cruiserweight is less appealing to him now, while he recognises he doesn't have the weight or size to provide an elite level challenge at heavyweight.

[catchweight]

Hes probably a decent guy away from the cameras but I find Bellew pretty annoying. The need to remind everyone every 5 seconds what a normal, down to earth bloke he is and how he is Dad of they Year and provides for his family etc. Normal, down to earth blokes (think of your Framptons, Quiggs, Crollas, Burns etc) do not behave like Bellew does. Hes a loudmouth who loves the attention. And a hypocrite who thinks that having a wife and kids entitles him to behave how he likes (as if other boxers dont have familys to support).

With a relatively modestly skillset and a mediocre record he will probably retire a multi millionaire though which illustrates the effectiveness of having a big mouth and being in the right place at the right time.

[Steffan]

Bellew hated Nathan Cleverly because he went to Cardiff University. I studied there as well so I guess he would hate me. He spent the whole of the 'Behind the Ropes' documentary saying how he didn't need to go to a boat on Miami to train he'd rather be in a cold gym in Rotherham like he deserved some kind of medal for it. I'd rather be in Miami personally but Haye constantly going on about what a great life he has was pretty pathetic. Neither of them seem capable of acting like grown men or being role models

[TRUSSMAN66]

Yet you like Tyson Fury.

[Steffan]

Yet you like Tyson Fury

Yeah. He is quite funny and a bit of a character. I like that

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