Budget 2017.....
+7
Pr4wn
Scottrf
superflyweight
Derbymanc
Ent
TopHat24/7
TRUSSMAN66
11 posters
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Budget 2017.....
2015 Tory Manifesto............."No increases in VAT, National Insurance contributions or Income Tax..."
Oh dear.....
Oh dear.....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
Ent- Posts : 7337
Join date : 2011-05-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.
Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........
Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
Class 4 is profits, income - expenses. Increase only effects around 8k profits I think.
I know next to nothing about this so happy to be corrected.
I know next to nothing about this so happy to be corrected.
Ent- Posts : 7337
Join date : 2011-05-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Same here Ent, speaking of which can anyone explain to me why a flat rate of tax for everyone is a bad idea?. We're all paying the same percentage of tax's then and wouldn't you be able to shut a lot of the loopholes?
Derbymanc- Posts : 4008
Join date : 2013-10-14
Location : Manchester
Re: Budget 2017.....
Derbymanc wrote:Same here Ent, speaking of which can anyone explain to me why a flat rate of tax for everyone is a bad idea?. We're all paying the same percentage of tax's then and wouldn't you be able to shut a lot of the loopholes?
If you're bored, google regressive versus progressive taxes.
Flat rate taxes have advantages such as transparency and a lack of convolution (went to a presentation the other day and apparently the UK has the world's most convoluted tax code - the book is about 6 inches thick!!).
However they are also considered regressive as proportionally they hit those on lower incomes harder. Take VAT for example - a flat tax. Someone earning £100k pa with a general VATable expenditure of £20k pa pays £4k pa VAT which is 4% of gross income. The same VAT cost to someone on £50k is 8% of gross income. Etc etc
Tories haven't got a jot of credit for taking millions of low income workers out of tax completely.
Someone earning £12k pa now pays no income tax.
With a flat, say, 25% tax rate they'd only take home £9k pa. The aforementioned £100k pa person would take home £75k as opposed to £65k under the current 'progressive' tax regime which basically involves higher earners paying more into the pot proportionally than lower earners.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
Cheers Toppy, gives me a better understanding of how it works, would be interested to see/know what the effect would be even if we closed the loopholes now (would business's just move elsewhere etc)
Derbymanc- Posts : 4008
Join date : 2013-10-14
Location : Manchester
Re: Budget 2017.....
TBH, when talking income tax, I don't think flat or tranched rates really involve or are relevant loopholes.
Majority of tax payers are PAYE - no loop holes to take advantage of there.
Majority of tax payers are PAYE - no loop holes to take advantage of there.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.
Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........
Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?
superflyweight- Superfly
- Posts : 8635
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
superflyweight wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.
Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........
Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?
I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
No, just double normal hourly rates.superflyweight wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:Basically they're just getting treated more equally to PAYE tax payers.
Am guessing they only pay NI on declared earnings also..........
Can they now look forward to statutory sick pay and paid holidays?
Scottrf- Posts : 14359
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
Yes and state pension (which is now equal).TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
Scottrf- Posts : 14359
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
Scottrf wrote:Yes and state pension (which is now equal).TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
NI pays for your holidays?? Wowzers. Never knew that. Thought it was brought in for the NHS back in the day and then meant to cover state pension somewhat but otherwise just all going into a pot.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
Holidays I don't know about actually.TopHat24/7 wrote:Scottrf wrote:Yes and state pension (which is now equal).TopHat24/7 wrote:I'm guessing by your tone.........no. Is that what NI pays for?
NI pays for your holidays?? Wowzers. Never knew that. Thought it was brought in for the NHS back in the day and then meant to cover state pension somewhat but otherwise just all going into a pot.
Scottrf- Posts : 14359
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
I get confused by it all. I do know my missus and I both pay NI PAYE but she gets less paid leave than me.....seems like it has more to do with company policy than national tax affairs.
And my tiler mate who's self employed gets no paid annual leave from memory. Maybe he's accountant finds away to adjust for it but I don't know.
And my tiler mate who's self employed gets no paid annual leave from memory. Maybe he's accountant finds away to adjust for it but I don't know.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
It doesn't have to be directly attributable to be a pertinent argument. Your point was that they were being brought into line with PAYE tax payers and my point is that PAYE tax payers generally benefit from certain perks - e.g. paid annual leave and employment protection.
superflyweight- Superfly
- Posts : 8635
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
As far as I know you're entitled to 20 days minimum & BHs, your employers can offer more holidays if they like. But yes that's full time employed staff.
Scottrf- Posts : 14359
Join date : 2011-01-26
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn
You seem to have become more interested....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
Ent- Posts : 7337
Join date : 2011-05-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant......
Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......
Manifesto is your bond........
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn
This brings nothing to the thread and you're just looking to incite a reaction here.
No more, please.
Pr4wn- Moderator
- Posts : 5795
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Vancouver
Re: Budget 2017.....
Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
Democracy in action!
Pr4wn- Moderator
- Posts : 5795
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Vancouver
Re: Budget 2017.....
Pr4wn wrote:Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
Democracy in action!
Yep......At Elections we elect people to represent us on pledges/manifesto.......The winner forms the Government..
It doesn't become null and void......Call an Election and lose a crap load of seats back to the Liberals......Probably win a load of Labour ones mind !!....
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Oh I know, mate. Tories were going mental when Brown became PM after Blair resigned, but they're fine with May becoming PM after Cameron fell on his sword.
Also, regarding the budget, the Tories are the party for "Hardworking Britons" yet they make things harder for the already squeezed self-employed, discouraging others from starting business and then they give huge corporations a 3% tax cut.
Also, regarding the budget, the Tories are the party for "Hardworking Britons" yet they make things harder for the already squeezed self-employed, discouraging others from starting business and then they give huge corporations a 3% tax cut.
Pr4wn- Moderator
- Posts : 5795
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Vancouver
Re: Budget 2017.....
superflyweight wrote:It doesn't have to be directly attributable to be a pertinent argument. Your point was that they were being brought into line with PAYE tax payers and my point is that PAYE tax payers generally benefit from certain perks - e.g. paid annual leave and employment protection.
And PAYE tax payers also lose out on certain perks, swings & roundabouts, your point is largely superfluous.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn
You seem to have become more interested....
People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant......
Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......
Manifesto is your bond........
More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.
"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.
TopHat24/7- Posts : 17008
Join date : 2011-07-01
Age : 40
Location : London
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn
You seem to have become more interested....
People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.
Who also contributed something far more debate-worthy than "yawn".
Pr4wn- Moderator
- Posts : 5795
Join date : 2011-03-09
Location : Vancouver
Re: Budget 2017.....
Pr4wn wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:TopHat24/7 wrote:Yawn
You seem to have become more interested....
People contributed something more debate-worthy than the OP.
Who also contributed something far more debate-worthy than "yawn".
Let baby have his tantrum..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant......
Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......
Manifesto is your bond........
More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.
"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.
You just make statements.....You don't back them up....
No point in having a conversation with you really...Is there ??..........
Thought this thread was boring you anyway ??..
TRUSSMAN66- Posts : 40681
Join date : 2011-02-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
Major world events will mean the manifestos get adjusted.
A call for a general election and suggestions they should've had a back up plan are very sensible but here we are.
A call for a general election and suggestions they should've had a back up plan are very sensible but here we are.
Ent- Posts : 7337
Join date : 2011-05-02
Re: Budget 2017.....
If a "manifesto is your bond", then everyone is in trouble aren't they? They're made to be broken. I wouldn't believe any of them if they said the sun was going to rise tomorrow...
Last edited by navyblueshorts on Sat 11 Mar 2017, 12:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
navyblueshorts- Moderator
- Posts : 11454
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...
Re: Budget 2017.....
TopHat24/7 wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:TRUSSMAN66 wrote:Ent wrote:Don't really know much about all this tax stuff, but seems to be inline with other workers?
You can throw the manifesto out the window as it wasn't banking on an eu exit.
They knew there was a vote............I'm missing the bit in the manifesto where it says...
*Only applicable if we stay in the EU.
Very naive if you thought things wouldn't change based on that.
There's also a new pm and cabinet, 2015 manifesto is irrelevant.
It isn't irrelevant......
Britain elected the Tory party...They didn't elect May as leader or her cabinet......
Manifesto is your bond........
More classic Truss hypocritical bullsh!t.
"Your manifesto is your bond". Christ almighty.
Galted- Galted
- Posts : 16014
Join date : 2011-10-31
Location : not the wi-fi password
Re: Budget 2017.....
Well that got abandoned rather quickly. Mustn't upset the media chums after all...
Mad for Chelsea- Posts : 12103
Join date : 2011-02-11
Age : 36
Re: Budget 2017.....
Theresa May: 'This woman is not for turning.'
CaledonianCraig- Posts : 20601
Join date : 2011-05-31
Age : 56
Location : Edinburgh
Re: Budget 2017.....
Yes. Great idea eh? Lets continue to allow the self-employed to exploit tax inequalities and loopholes while the PAYE suckers make up the slack that those w*nkers don't pay....Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well that got abandoned rather quickly. Mustn't upset the media chums after all...
navyblueshorts- Moderator
- Posts : 11454
Join date : 2011-01-27
Location : Off with the pixies...
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