Team of the 6 Nations

Obviously objective, but worth the discussion. Feel free to pitch in with your team and explanations.  

Stats....credit to George...

1. The following players won man of the match awards:

- Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
- Louis Picamoles (France)
- Leigh Halfpenny (Wales)
- CJ Stander (Ireland)
- Joe Launchbury (England)
- Kevin Gourdon (France)
- Finn Russell (Scotland) x 2
- Conor Murray (Ireland)
- Joe Launchbury (England)
- Rhys Webb (Wales)
- Baptiste Serin (France)
- Jonathan Joseph (England)
- Brice Dulin (France)
- Peter O'Mahony (Ireland)

2. Nobody was top try scorer outright - the following players all scored 3 tries apiece:

Danny Care (England)
Keith Earls (Ireland)
Craig Gilroy (Ireland)
Stuart Hogg (Scotland)
Jonathan Joseph (England)
George North (Wales)
CJ Stander (Ireland)
Liam Williams (Wales)

3. Top points scorers:

1 Camille Lopez France 67
2 Owen Farrell England 63
3 Leigh Halfpenny Wales 62
4 Finn Russell Scotland 45
5 Paddy Jackson Ireland 36

1. Baille - Impressive 6N for the big man. Scrummed extremely well and showed up well in the loose, Marler/McGrath worth a shout.

2. Guiardo - Standout hooker. Did the basics well and excellent in the loose.

3. Furlong - Became less dominant in the set piece as the tournament went on but always solid and carried hard.

4. Launchbury - Starting only because of injuries, he's nailed his place. An excellent 6N for the big man.

5. AWJ - A tough call with Gray and Lawes also impressing. Was a constant presence and showed his Lions credentials.

6. Stander - The standout 6, a wrecking ball of a carrier.

7. Tipuric - An excellent 6N for the Ospreys 7. Really put his hand up for the Lions and defied opinions of his lack of physicality.

8. Picamoles - Started excellently but became quiet as the tournament went on. Dragged France through the early games.  

9. Serin - Looks a fantastic find for the French. Murray and Webb a close call too.

10. Bigger - Perhaps controversial but I thought he was generally very good. A real chance of Lions spot this Summer.

11. Daly - Williams worth a shout but Daly had a good 6N, although his defence is still questionable.

12. Farrell - Bar the Italian game, he was very good. Making the 12 shirt his own. More by default with no other real options.

13. JJ - A tough call but the game against Scotland was just outstanding. Campagnaro a worthy shout for Italy.

14. North - Grew into the competition. After a poor game v Scotland, was possibly one of the best backs in the 6N.

15. Hogg - The standout FB, nobody else really close.


So.....

England - 4
France - 4
Wales - 4
Ireland - 2
Scotland - 1
Italy - 0

Tough on Scotland as they were fantastic at times. Gray Jnr, Laidlaw and Russell all with valid shouts for a place.

And captained by Dylan Hartley, probably play him as a hooker.

Fair enough Pooly.

It's such a difficult exercise because every single team in the tournament had at least one poor game.

So I would say:

01. Cyril Baille (France) - just a beast, never lasts more than an hour but doesn't have to
02. Guilhem Guirado (France) - captain fantastic, hard as a rock and led from the front
03. Tadhg Furlong (Ireland) - don't remember anyone putting him in real trouble, looks increasingly important to the Lions with Nel out
04. Joe Launchbury (England) - in for his sheer consistency in performance
05. Courtney Lawes (England) - very influential figure indeed, shades AWJ in terms of his game impact
06. CJ Stander (Ireland) - next  
07. Hamish Watson (Scotland) - superb across the games and hugely influential, Kevin Gourdon a close second, Haskell third
08. Louise Picamoles (France) - not a great tournament for 8s, he stood out a mile and can lift his whole team

09. Baptiste Serin (France) - I believe the hype now, the guy is a wizard  
10. Jonathan Sexton (Ireland) - tough one, as I believe Farrell is more influential then Ford and therefore that Sexton is a more important player
11. Liam Williams (Wales) - best Welsh player on the pitch across the tournament, wouldn't be unhappy if he started a Lions test
12. Owen Farrell (England) - not the correct position for him, but judging him as a 12 was the most influential, would still start Henshaw for the Lions
13. Jonathan Joseph (England) - despite the outlier Scotland match, still the best of the tournament
14. George North (Wales) - one of the very few bright spots for Wales, who are starting to rely on him too heavily
15. Stuart Hogg (Scotland) - suggestions that anyone else starts for the Lions are really not tenable

16. Joe Marler (England) - quietly good, he is working harder than I have ever seen him
17. Ken Owens (Wales) - a silent Welsh hero
18. Rabah Slimani (France) - Cole worked hard, but I am not completely convinced
19. Donnacha Ryan (Ireland) - works his arse off
20. Seán O'Brien (Ireland) - other teams have got his number now, but is starting to motor again
21. Rhys Webb (Wales) - very good indeed
22. George Ford (England) - oh, all right then
23. Elliot Daly (England - quintessential utility man

Fantastic write up George, I might paste it into my post!

Very close teams anyway.

Feel free!

My team of the 6N

1. Jack McGrath - Powerful in the scrum, a menace in the loose.

2. Guilhem Guiardo - Best hoover on the world by a massive distance. Physical, technically excellent and a leader that can inspire France to whatever they can be inspired to do.

3. Tadhg Furlong - immense, Dan Cole had a great tournament too and young Zander Fagerson is one to watch for the future, but Furlong either obliterated all before him.

4. Joe Launchberry - Fantastic player, worked tirelessly for his country and was part of a stainless line out operation.

5. Courtney Lawes - All the hype was about Itoje but I thought Lawes was incredible all tournament.

6. Sam Warburton - Apart from his kick out on the full in the France game he has been the stand out flanker all tournament. A pest at the breakdown and physical in the tackle area.

7. Hamish Watson - the work at the breakdown, a flailing octopus whilst carrying the ball and phenomenal tackle and turnover stats means I pick Mr Watson.

8. Louis Picomoles - Not a classic for 8s, Moriarty looked good in patches, Stander played well at 8 too, but Picomoles carried so hard and gave France so much go forward ball he gets the nod for me.

9.Rhys Webb - I nearly shot in my pants when Serin did that out of the back pass, he was amazing. However Webb was the best player for Wales for the whole tournament.

10. Johnny Sexton - Even when Ireland struggled with Wales he looked dangerous, and he guided Ireland to victory against that classy England team.

11. Liam Williams - Electric. Always dangerous and surely a lions test starter.

12. Owen Farrell - Can't remember him having a bad game, his kicking boots were off for the Italy game but he still played well. Seems to have matured as a player too.

13. Michele Campagnaro - this may look like tokenism, but it's not, he was the only spark in a forlorn cause for Italy. The outside centre position hasn't had a classic year JJ was phenomenal against Scotland and anonymous in every other game. Huw Jones was good in flashes, and JD2 played alright. Ringrose IMO performed the best of the home nations but Campagnaro was the only Italian who looked like he belonged in the 6N.

14. Tommy Seymour - Strong under the high ball, a predatory try scorer and solid in defence.

15. Hogg - Silenced some of his critics this weekend by making 2 try saving tackles when Scotland were down to 14 men. Yes it was only Italy, I get that, but holding them to 0 points was a great achievement and Stuart Hogg played a huge part in that, and with almost no sleep since his second child was born on Thursday! Also he is the most devastating attacking full back in the NH and maybe the world right now. Hands down the best back Scotland has produced in 25 years.

So that's my team of the 6n.

1) McGrath
2) Guirado
3) Furlong
4) Launchbury
5) Lawes
6) Stander
7) Warburton
8) Picamoles
9) Serin
10) Russell
11) Daly
12) Farrell
13) Jones
14) Seymour
15) Hogg


Close to making my team: Baille, Marler, Cole, Ickle Gray, AWJ, Tipuric, Moriarty, Webb, Murray, Youngs, Campagnaro, Williams)

Here is my team :

01 : McGrath
02 : Guirado
03 : Furlong
04 : Ryan
05 : Lawes
06 : Stander
07 : Watson
08 : Picamoles
09 : Webb
10 : Russell
11 : Visser
12 : Henshaw
13 : Joseph
14 : North
15 : Hogg

Always thought you were a delusional old boy sgt, but now I see I was wrong as you've picked a world class performer at lock (AWJ). I assume he's also your choice for captain?

Personally I would switch Warburton to 7 as I feel he's slightly better than Tips whilst there are better options at 6. I've been really impressed with Wales' back-row so that's probably the only positive we can take from this tournament. Fly-half certainly isn't Biggar, it has to be Ford.

I'd have Lawes in ahead of AWJ, he was instrumental in all four victories alongside Launchbury and it has to be said that AWJ's captaincy has left a lot to be desired.

Fly half is a tricky one as I don't think anyone excelled, the England game rules Russell out completely, Biggar lacked imagination, Sexton was decent so by default i'd pick Ford; defensively not great but every good thing we do goes through him.

I thought Ford had a poor 6N tbh, he didnt really shine in any game.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:I thought Ford had a poor 6N tbh, he didnt really shine in any game.

Didn't see the England Scotland game for the other 4 to me he is too much of a liability in his defensive abilities, if the Lions pick only 2 O/Hs it would have to be the same as the last tour, and if it was 3 I would add Finn Russell before Ford, at least he wouldn't be targeted by the Blacks.

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd have Lawes in ahead of AWJ, he was instrumental in all four victories alongside Launchbury and it has to be said that AWJ's captaincy has left a lot to be desired.

Fly half is a tricky one as I don't think anyone excelled, the England game rules Russell out completely, Biggar lacked imagination, Sexton was decent so by default i'd pick Ford; defensively not great but every good thing we do goes through him.

When Russel plays well, Scotland plays well. And everything good we do goes through him. Same argument.

Russell is like Townsend. Mercurial in the highest degree. He can be absolutely brilliant, but absolutely honking. The question is, do his movements of brilliance outweigh his errors?

1 - Marler then McGrath
2 - Guairdo then Best
3 - Furlong then Cole
4 - AWJ, then Lawes
5 - Launchbury, then Toner
6 - Stander, then Itoje
7 - Watson, then Warburton
8 - Picamoles, then Heaslip
9 - Murray, then Serin
10 - Sexton, then Russell
11 - Williams, then Daly
12 - Farrell, then Henshaw
13 - Joseph, then Fickou
14 - North, then Earls
15 - Hogg, then Dulin

the subs for 13, 14 and 15 were tough choices, not a great tournament for the back three. Stander is my player of the Tournament with Launchbury second.

1 - Baille 
2 - Guairdo
3 - Furlong
4 - Launchbury 
5 - Lawes
6 - Stander
7 - Tipuric
8 - Picamoles 
9 - Serin
10 - Sexton
11 - Daly 
12 - Farrell
13 - Ringrose
14 - Seymour
15 - Hogg 

16 - Marler
17 - Best 
18 - Cole 
19 - AWJ
20 - SOB
21 - Webb
22 - Russell 
23 - L. Williams

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd have Lawes in ahead of AWJ, he was instrumental in all four victories alongside Launchbury and it has to be said that AWJ's captaincy has left a lot to be desired.

Fly half is a tricky one as I don't think anyone excelled, the England game rules Russell out completely, Biggar lacked imagination, Sexton was decent so by default i'd pick Ford; defensively not great but every good thing we do goes through him.

When Russel plays well, Scotland plays well. And everything good we do goes through him. Same argument.

Russell is like Townsend. Mercurial in the highest degree. He can be absolutely brilliant, but absolutely honking. The question is, do his movements of brilliance outweigh his errors?

I'm not saying that Russell should tour but it does make me smile when the one person who won two man of the match awards in this tournament is arbitrarily dismissed.

Russell should 100% be selected.

George Carlin wrote:

RuggerRadge2611 wrote:

Hammersmith harrier wrote:I'd have Lawes in ahead of AWJ, he was instrumental in all four victories alongside Launchbury and it has to be said that AWJ's captaincy has left a lot to be desired.

Fly half is a tricky one as I don't think anyone excelled, the England game rules Russell out completely, Biggar lacked imagination, Sexton was decent so by default i'd pick Ford; defensively not great but every good thing we do goes through him.

When Russel plays well, Scotland plays well. And everything good we do goes through him. Same argument.

Russell is like Townsend. Mercurial in the highest degree. He can be absolutely brilliant, but absolutely honking. The question is, do his movements of brilliance outweigh his errors?

I'm not saying that Russell should tour but it does make me smile when the one person who won two man of the match awards in this tournament is arbitrarily dismissed.

Exactly - he had one very poor game, 2 fantastic games and 2 ok games

Even Farrell has a shocker of a game (His 50th cap no less), so using the logic being given - he should not tour either lol

I'd go Sexton, Bigger and Farrell. I don't think Russell is cut out to play against the AB's yet.

I think this thread is becoming confused - the team of the 6N is NOT the same as the Lions team. The Lions might have a better chance if they could pick some French players. Probably not, but might.

It's an interesting point, but one that most people are missing; home teams won over 90% of the fixtures this year. Discounting Italy then every side had at least one very disappointing performance away from home. By extension, every player can be considered to have had at least one stinker, by dint of playing in a very disappointing team performance. Especially those in "higher profile" roles such as stand off.
According to James Haskell the England back row were very poor against Ireland. Does this mean that Itoje should not tour? Lots of people were saying Jonathan Joseph should be the 13 of the tournament after his hat-trick against Scotland. He ended up with three tries for the tournament, arguably Huw Jones' average performance was better than Joseph's average and the hat trick was a statistical outlier.
I think that what I'm trying to say is that there was very little between the teams this year and that before picking a team of the tournament we should settle on a venue and pick from there.

Especially difficult this year - few players were outstanding in every match in which they played but a number were very good in a decent proportion of them.

Let's try: 1) McGrath 2) Guirado (C) 3) Furlong 4) Launchbury 5) Ryan 6) Stander 7) Tipuric 8) Picamoles 9) Serin 10) Sexton 11) Williams 12) Farrell 13) Joseph 14) North 15) Hogg

This seems very unfair on Scotland, who had contenders in a number of positions and you could argue that there are more Welshmen than their finishing position warrants but it's been a strange tournament. I'm not totally happy with the back row - I would like to have cheated, put Stander at 8 and Warburton in at 6, but I have to go by where most of the rugby has been played during this 6N to be totally fair (NB Have changed the number 8 to Picamoles, whom I left out originally for some reason). Don't think any of the number 8s are bombproof this time. The closest call was at 11, where Daly could easily have got the call over Liam Williams. It's a good, tough XV without striking terror into anyone and that seems to me to be a reasonable summary of the 6 Nations of 2017. Not bad, but not vintage, either.

Anyone picking AWJ should just go home! They're obviously drunk!

It looks as if Pooly is in complete agreement with a number of ex-players in picking just the one token Scot! #TokenScot

Ian McGeechan had Hogg, Seymour and Watson in his Lions XV based on 6 Nations form.

George Carlin wrote:Ian McGeechan had Hogg, Seymour and Watson in his Lions XV based on 6 Nations form.

Biased......

:-)

mikey_dragon wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Ian McGeechan had Hogg, Seymour and Watson in his Lions XV based on 6 Nations form.

Biased......

FACT. What does he know about the Lions? And what have the Romans ever done for us?

Baille, Owens, Furlong, Launchbury, Lawes, Warburton, Tipuric, Picamoles, Webb, Sexton, North, Farrell, Joseph, Daly, Hogg

Good seeing teams with 3 Saints players! Hope they have an impact.

Scottrf wrote:Good seeing teams with 3 Saints players! Hope they have an impact.

an impact in what, this is not a lions team.

Gwlad wrote:

Scottrf wrote:Good seeing teams with 3 Saints players! Hope they have an impact.

an impact in what, this is not a lions team.

The rest of our season...

Another team of the 6N that appears to be fairer to the Scottish contingent than a lot of the posters on here:

http://www.rugbyworld.com/news/six-nations-team-of-the-tournament-2-77572

15. Hogg
14. Earls
13. Fickou
12. Farrell
11. Daly
10. Russell
9. Webb
8. Picomoles
7. Watson
6. Lawes
5. Itoje
4. Ryan
3. Furlong
2. Owens
1. Baille

Lawes at 6? When did that happen?

funnyExiledScot wrote:Lawes at 6? When did that happen?

Ditto Itoje at 5 and Fickou at 13.

'It's hard to separate the outside centres, so we didn't bother.'

Scottrf wrote:

funnyExiledScot wrote:Lawes at 6? When did that happen?

Ditto Itoje at 5 and Fickou at 13.

'It's hard to separate the outside centres, so we didn't bother.'

It was #fakenews

Itoje played every game in the second row

and played badly - (so the excuse him playing 6 does not work)

Lawes played at 6

That Jones was playing silly buggers again and to quote an obnosious Australian - it was anti rugby and if that is rugby I will pack up my bag and go home

Earls!!!!!

RBS Six Nations Statistical Team of the Championship

15 Stuart Hogg
14 Keith Earls
13 Jonathan Davies
12 Owen Farrell
11 Simon Zebo
10 Finn Russel
11 Rhys Webb
1 Jack McGrath
2 Ken Owens
3 Tadhg Furlong
4 Joe Launchbury
5 Courtney Lawes
6 CJ Stander
7 Kevin Gourdon
8 Louis Picamoles

http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/31584.php#9bjjtRL9HD4rhTGc.97

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Earls!!!!!

Yep Earls -

14. Keith Earls (Ireland)

With eight clean breaks and three tries, Keith Earls was one of the most potent threats in the Championship, helping Ireland to second place in the table.

Earls beat 13 defenders over the course of the Championship, bettered only by Louis Picamoles and CJ Stander in the Accenture team.
Read more at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/31584.php#Pu6zmHBURPCscSQk.99

Davies, Earls & Zebo!!!!

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Earls!!!!!

Yep Earls -  

14. Keith Earls (Ireland)

With eight clean breaks and three tries, Keith Earls was one of the most potent threats in the Championship, helping Ireland to second place in the table.

Earls beat 13 defenders over the course of the Championship, bettered only by Louis Picamoles and CJ Stander in the Accenture team.
Read more at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/31584.php#Pu6zmHBURPCscSQk.99

The problem when you do a side based on stats.

It doesn't really explain which stats are used to which weighting for who etc. Just a bit of fun and a twist on the pundits picking their lions teams.

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Earls!!!!!

Yep Earls -  

14. Keith Earls (Ireland)

With eight clean breaks and three tries, Keith Earls was one of the most potent threats in the Championship, helping Ireland to second place in the table.

Earls beat 13 defenders over the course of the Championship, bettered only by Louis Picamoles and CJ Stander in the Accenture team.
Read more at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/31584.php#Pu6zmHBURPCscSQk.99

The problem when you do a side based on stats.

Yet they seem to have got it right with the likes of Hogg, Farrell, Stander, McGrath & Furlong who are making everyone's team.

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:

Sin é wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Earls!!!!!

Yep Earls -  

14. Keith Earls (Ireland)

With eight clean breaks and three tries, Keith Earls was one of the most potent threats in the Championship, helping Ireland to second place in the table.

Earls beat 13 defenders over the course of the Championship, bettered only by Louis Picamoles and CJ Stander in the Accenture team.
Read more at http://www.rbs6nations.com/en/news/31584.php#Pu6zmHBURPCscSQk.99

The problem when you do a side based on stats.

Yet they seem to have got it right with the likes of Hogg, Farrell, Stander, McGrath & Furlong who are making everyone's team.

You win some, you lose some I guess.

No 7&1/2 wrote:It doesn't really explain which stats are used to which weighting for who etc. Just a bit of fun and a twist on the pundits picking their lions teams.

Its fairly obvious what stats they use - for a winger for example, you get points added for making a linebreak, defeating a defender, number of carries you make, you get points deducted for missing a tackle etc. A lock would get points added for winning a lineout, extra points for stealing a lineout.

Not sure it's that obvious to be honest. How many points for each. Is metres made given less emphasis for a full back running it back to the line than someone who bursts through the defence. Is an off load by a prop which leads to a try given more points in their system than a lineout win? Why does it if that's the case? The point being there's a tonne of stats to look at across one game let alone the tournament. It favours players staying on for majority of games etc...so many variables that it makes it as meaningless as the teams picked by Stephen jones...who until this week was still picking Cooper Wooley as starting tight head.

Not sure how Launchbury and Lawes made it in as the locks then, I don't think we stole a lineout all 6N.

You obviously don't lose too many from knock ons and full backs taking the ball off you either!

No 7&1/2 wrote:Not sure it's that obvious to be honest. How many points for each. Is metres made given less emphasis for a full back running it back to the line than someone who bursts through the defence. Is an off load by a prop which leads to a try given more points in their system than a lineout win? Why does it if that's the case? The point being there's a tonne of stats to look at across one game let alone the tournament. It favours players staying on for majority of games etc...so many variables that it makes it as meaningless as the teams picked by Stephen jones...who until this week was still picking Cooper Wooley as starting tight head.

It seems to be weighted for every position, but there is also a comparision between positions - for example, Furlong would have earned more points than other tighthead props as Ireland won more scrums than other tightheads/ teams (don't know if that is true or not, just using it as an example).

A prop would not get more points for making an offload than anyone else, but if that offload was a try assist, he would obviously get points for a try assist but it would be the same points for a try assist if a centre had made it.

Of course it favours players staying on more most the games (which makes it rather remarkable that Keith Earls made it considering he was injured for 2nd part of England game).

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Not sure how Launchbury and Lawes made it in as the locks then, I don't think we stole a lineout all 6N.

They would have hit a lot of rucks though.