2019 Rugby World Cup Pots

by Artful_Dodger Sun 19 Mar 2017, 11:08 am

The draw for the World Cup is made in May.

Pot 1
New Zealand
England
Australia
Ireland

Pot 2
Scotland
France
South Africa
Wales

Pot 3
Argentina
Fiji
Japan
Georgia

Some interesting groups could come out of this, particularly baring in mind that one of the top tier teams will draw South Africa. To be honest though, I don't think there is much in it with those pot 2 teams. I don't find any of them favourable as an Ireland fan. I'd probably go with Fiji from the Pot 3 sides. I'd love to see a group of Australia, South Africa and Argentina.

by SecretFly Sun 19 Mar 2017, 12:21 pm

Ireland,
(nothing in pot two is easy!) I'm thinking Scotland but then I'm thinking France... and then even SA. Anything but Wales I suppose. Wales take too much of a delight in beating us. I think it's all too personal with them Wink

So less personal stuff in the pool stages is my preference. Then Georgia I suppose.

by whocares Sun 19 Mar 2017, 12:31 pm

Rather have NZ and say Fiji then we have a shot at the QF and a decent chance to go to the SF.

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:33 pm

Pool 1:
New Zealand
South Africa
Argentina

..... Ouch Shocked

Pool 2
Ireland
Wales
Georgia

..... Yes please. Hug

then again:

New Zealand
Wales
Fiji
Samoa....

Were doomed, doooooooooomed I tells ya.... picard

by captain carrantuohil Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:37 pm

Ireland with SA and Fiji would do for me. Missing out on Samoa from the fourth pot would be fine as well.

by Gooseberry Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:44 pm

Ireland Wales....you know whos reffing that one if it happens!

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:44 pm

Are you sure Fiji automatically qualified?

Because Italy have also automatically qualified, and I can see Fiji haven't or am I missing something? Fiji were bottom of the last pool of death, with Australia, England and Wales. Shocked

We can add to that (probably)
Samoa, Fiji and Tonga - Oceania
Usa, Canada - Americas
Namibia - Africa
Romania - Europe

Russia - would probably beat Cook Islands in the Euro / Oceania play off

Uruguay from the Repage?

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:46 pm

Scotland and Georgia would be preferable from an English point of view, too many bad memories of the other three knocking us out of world cups.

by Hammersmith harrier Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:47 pm

Shifty wrote:Are you sure Fiji automatically qualified?

Because Italy have also automatically qualified, and I can see Fiji haven't or am I missing something? Fiji were bottom of the last pool of death, with Australia, England and Wales.

We can add to that (probably)
Samoa, Fiji and Tonga - Oceania
Usa, Canada - Americas
Namibia - Africa
Romania - Europe

Russia - would probably beat Cook Islands in the play off

Uruguay from the Repage?

Italy as a tier one nation automatically qualify don't they which would mean whoever takes their place in the top 12 also automatically qualify?

by GunsGermsV2 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:51 pm

Draw is on the 19 May.

http://www.rugbyworldcup.com/news/158737?lang=en

As an Ireland fan Id prefer to avoid Wales and Argentina. Happy enough to get SA or France plus any lower tier team.

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 12:56 pm

Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Shifty wrote:Are you sure Fiji automatically qualified?

Because Italy have also automatically qualified, and I can see Fiji haven't or am I missing something? Fiji were bottom of the last pool of death, with Australia, England and Wales.

We can add to that (probably)
Samoa, Fiji and Tonga - Oceania
Usa, Canada - Americas
Namibia - Africa
Romania - Europe

Russia - would probably beat Cook Islands in the play off

Uruguay from the Repage?

Italy as a tier one nation automatically qualify don't they which would mean whoever takes their place in the top 12 also automatically qualify?

I'm confused myself, I can't find the place where the pots are. What I can say is according to Wiki and the RWC website, the 12 automatic qualifiers doesn't include Fiji. From what I can see none of the Pacific Island teams have qualified yet. Only the top 3 teams from each world cup pool qualified from the last world cup. So Wales, England and Australia. Qualification appears to be the top 3 teams from each pool in the last world cup, and also the hosts, but Japan were in the top 3 anyway, so 12 teams.

I can find articles saying the 3 Pacific Island teams were up in arms as Japan are hosts, so the IRC has taken away the Asian automatic place as Japan are hosts and given it to the Pacific Islands. This probably means in the repage we'll have Germany, Hong Kong, Zimbabwe, Cook Islands and Uruguay fighting it out.

by robbo277 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:01 pm

I think the automatic qualifiers are split into 3 pots by world ranking, it's not the top 12 teams.

So replace Fiji with Italy on that list and drop Fiji into pot 4 if/when they qualify.

by robbo277 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:03 pm

Shifty wrote:
Hammersmith harrier wrote:
Shifty wrote:Are you sure Fiji automatically qualified?

Because Italy have also automatically qualified, and I can see Fiji haven't or am I missing something? Fiji were bottom of the last pool of death, with Australia, England and Wales.

We can add to that (probably)
Samoa, Fiji and Tonga - Oceania
Usa, Canada - Americas
Namibia - Africa
Romania - Europe

Russia - would probably beat Cook Islands in the play off

Uruguay from the Repage?

Italy as a tier one nation automatically qualify don't they which would mean whoever takes their place in the top 12 also automatically qualify?

I'm confused myself, I can't find the place where the pots are. What I can say is according to Wiki and the RWC website, the 12 automatic qualifiers doesn't include Fiji. From what I can see none of the Pacific Island teams have qualified yet. Only the top 3 teams from each world cup pool qualified from the last world cup. So Wales, England and Australia. Qualification appears to be the top 3 teams from each pool in the last world cup, and also the hosts, but Japan were in the top 3 anyway, so 12 teams.

I can find articles saying the 3 Pacific Island teams were up in arms as Japan are hosts, so the IRC has taken away the Asian automatic place as Japan are hosts and given it to the Pacific Islands. This probably means in the repage we'll have Germany, Hong Kong, Zimbabwe, Cook Islands and Uruguay fighting it out.

I think they have tweaked the qualifying system, as Japan and Georgia finished third in their pools and none of the pacific island teams did, they were likely to miss out if there were the same number of regional qualifiers as in 2015, where both Samoa and Tonga were automatic qualifiers.

I think the top two of Samoa, Fiji and Tonga will qualify and the third will play-off against a European team. So they're all most likely going to make it.

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:05 pm

robbo277 wrote:I think the automatic qualifiers are split into 3 pots by world ranking, it's not the top 12 teams.

So replace Fiji with Italy on that list and drop Fiji into pot 4 if/when they qualify.

Thats my thinking too.

The pool draw will take place on 10 May 2017 in Kyoto. The seeding system from the previous Rugby World Cup will be retained with the 12 direct qualifiers being seeded into the top 3 bands according to the World Rugby Rankings on the day of the draw. The 12 directly qualified teams will be allocated into the top three bands as follows:

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams (1-4 in World Rugby Rankings)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams (5-8 in World Rugby Rankings)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams
The eight qualifying places will be allocated into the other two bands.

Which translates too:

Band 1:
New Zealand, England, Australia, Ireland (ranked 1-4)

Band 2:
Scotland, France, South Africa, Wales (ranked 5-8)

Band 3:
Argentina (9), Georgia (12), Japan (11), Italy (15)

Band 4: - If they qualify
Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, Romania - 13 to 16

Band 5 -
Usa, Namibia, Canada, +1

by robbo277 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:08 pm

Shifty wrote:
robbo277 wrote:I think the automatic qualifiers are split into 3 pots by world ranking, it's not the top 12 teams.

So replace Fiji with Italy on that list and drop Fiji into pot 4 if/when they qualify.

Thats my thinking so if it all works out as it should, we may have:

Pot 4:
Fiji, Tonga, Samoa, USA

Pot 5
Canada, Romania, Namibia, +1

The pool draw will take place on 10 May 2017 in Kyoto. The seeding system from the previous Rugby World Cup will be retained with the 12 direct qualifiers being seeded into the top 3 bands according to the World Rugby Rankings on the day of the draw. The 12 directly qualified teams will be allocated into the top three bands as follows:

Band 1: The four highest-ranked directly qualified teams (1-4 in World Rugby Rankings)
Band 2: The next four highest-ranked directly qualified teams (5-8 in World Rugby Rankings)
Band 3: The final four directly qualified teams
The eight qualifying places will be allocated into the other two bands.

I think the other spots aren't done on ranking because the teams aren't decided, so they'll say Pot 4 will be (e.g) Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1, Oceania 2, or something, so Samoa or Tonga might end up in Pot 5 as a play-off winner? Could be a brutal pool with Samoa, Fiji and Argentina as you're three weaker teams...

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:13 pm

robbo277 wrote:I think the other spots aren't done on ranking because the teams aren't decided, so they'll say Pot 4 will be (e.g) Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1, Oceania 2, or something, so Samoa or Tonga might end up in Pot 5 as a play-off winner? Could be a brutal pool with Samoa, Fiji and Argentina as you're three weaker teams...

Qualification is 8 teams:

2 Oceania - Samoa, Fiji
1 of Oceania or Europe - probably Tonga beat Russia?
2 Americas - Canada, Usa
1 Europe - Normally Romania
1 Africa - Normally Namibia, they already smashed Zimbabwe
1 Repage - Uruguay?

All RWC 2019 qualifiers will be known by November 2018.

by Gooseberry Mon 20 Mar 2017, 1:56 pm

Shifty wrote:
robbo277 wrote:I think the other spots aren't done on ranking because the teams aren't decided, so they'll say Pot 4 will be (e.g) Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1, Oceania 2, or something, so Samoa or Tonga might end up in Pot 5 as a play-off winner? Could be a brutal pool with Samoa, Fiji and Argentina as you're three weaker teams...

Qualification is 8 teams:

2 Oceania - Samoa, Fiji
1 of Oceania or Europe - probably Tonga beat Russia?
2 Americas - Canada, Usa
1 Europe - Normally Romania
1 Africa - Normally Namibia, they already smashed Zimbabwe
1 Repage - Uruguay?

All RWC 2019 qualifiers will be known by November 2018.

Few points :

Automatic qualification was badsed on performance at the last world cup, not tier status plus being a host in Japans case.

The European nations still need to playoff to decide who goes through with Georgia (12) - current favourites would be Romania (16). The next team would go to a playoff with Oceania, the rankings put Spain (18) as favourites with Russia (20) a possible. Neither is likley to win the playoff but would be strong in the reperchage.

With Aus and NZ through I beleive that the Pislands cup is acting as the ocenia qualifier. Japan are counted as Asia and are qualified as hosts anyway so discounting them its the top 2 through and third place into a playoff with (Spain?). As it stand Fiji (10) and Tonga (13) would be favourite with Samoa (14) likely to win the qualfier. The loser goes into the reperchage.

Im not sure how they are deciding the Aisan playoff team but with Japan qualified its likely Hong Kong (26) or Korea (28) neither of which will do anything.

Africa a qualifier in addition to SA, plus another in teh reperchage : Thats likley Namibia (19) or possible Kenya (23)

Argentina have qualifed for the Americas, 2 more go from their playoffs which should be Uruguay (21) and the US (17) based on rankings. They also get a reperchage spot which will probably be Canada (22). The system is weighted toward the US, with them playing home and away first and the loser playing Uruguay.

Theres actually a fair chance Canada could miss out. Certainly by current rankings they dont deserve to be there. The Americas are actaully doing pretty badly rankings wise at the moment which is quite surprising given its where growth was predicted.
The Eurpoean teams who are getting a bit screwed buy the regional allocations ...but are likely to win through the reperchage.

I have no idea why people think this is needlesly complicated chin

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:01 pm

Gooseberry wrote:Few points :

Automatic qualification was badsed on performance at the last world cup, not tier status plus being a host in Japans case.

The European nations still need to playoff to decide who goes through with Georgia (12) - current favourites would be Romania (16). The next team would go to a playoff with Oceania, the rankings put Spain (18) as favourites with Russia (20) a possible. Neither is likley to win the playoff but would be strong in the reperchage.

With Aus and NZ through I beleive that the Pislands cup is acting as the ocenia qualifier. Japan are counted as Asia and are qualified as hosts anyway so discounting them its the top 2 through and third place into a playoff with (Spain?). As it stand Fiji (10) and Tonga (13) would be favourite with Samoa (14) likely to win the qualfier. The loser goes into the reperchage.

Im not sure how they are deciding the Aisan playoff team but with Japan qualified its likely Hong Kong (26) or Korea (28) neither of which will do anything.

Africa a qualifier in addition to SA, plus another in teh reperchage : Thats likley Namibia (19) or possible Kenya (23)

Argentina have qualifed for the Americas, 2 more go from their playoffs which should be Uruguay (21) and the US (17) based on rankings. They also get a reperchage spot which will probably be Canada (22). The system is weighted toward the US, with them playing home and away first and the loser playing Uruguay.

Theres actually a fair chance Canada could miss out. Certainly by current rankings they dont deserve to be there. The Americas are actaully doing pretty badly rankings wise at the moment which is quite surprising given its where growth was predicted.
The Eurpoean teams who are getting a bit screwed buy the regional allocations ...but are likely to win through the reperchage.

I have no idea why people think this is needlessly complicated

Apparently the winner of the 6 Nations B this year gets Europe 1. Romania won it beating Georgia, so Romania would seem to be Europe 1. Georgia have qualified anyway. While Spain are third, so I'd assume Spain goes into the play off with the Pacific Island team. I'm assuming the Pacific Nations cup takes place in June, so we should know more then.

It's complicated because we can't find one single place where it's all dumbed down into boxes so we can see who's going where.

by robbo277 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:18 pm

Shifty wrote:
robbo277 wrote:I think the other spots aren't done on ranking because the teams aren't decided, so they'll say Pot 4 will be (e.g) Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1, Oceania 2, or something, so Samoa or Tonga might end up in Pot 5 as a play-off winner? Could be a brutal pool with Samoa, Fiji and Argentina as you're three weaker teams...

Qualification is 8 teams:

2 Oceania - Samoa, Fiji
1 of Oceania or Europe - probably Tonga beat Russia?
2 Americas - Canada, Usa
1 Europe - Normally Romania
1 Africa - Normally Namibia, they already smashed Zimbabwe
1 Repage - Uruguay?

All RWC 2019 qualifiers will be known by November 2018.

Sorry, but my point was that these teams won't be known by the draw and they will be drawn as Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1 etc. They will have to allocate these "placeholders" in the draw without using the World rankings, as they can't guarantee who will get those spots. They might roughly do it on World Rankings, but I can't see Oceania 1, Oceania 2, Europe 1 and Europe/Oceania all being in Pot 4, I think America 1 will replace Europe/Oceania so the third ranked pacific island team could easily end up in Pot 5, despite being ranked higher than some Pot 4 teams.

by robbo277 Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:23 pm

Gooseberry wrote:
Shifty wrote:
robbo277 wrote:I think the other spots aren't done on ranking because the teams aren't decided, so they'll say Pot 4 will be (e.g) Europe 1, Oceania 1, America 1, Oceania 2, or something, so Samoa or Tonga might end up in Pot 5 as a play-off winner? Could be a brutal pool with Samoa, Fiji and Argentina as you're three weaker teams...

Qualification is 8 teams:

2 Oceania - Samoa, Fiji
1 of Oceania or Europe - probably Tonga beat Russia?
2 Americas - Canada, Usa
1 Europe - Normally Romania
1 Africa - Normally Namibia, they already smashed Zimbabwe
1 Repage - Uruguay?

All RWC 2019 qualifiers will be known by November 2018.

Few points :

Automatic qualification was badsed on performance at the last world cup, not tier status plus being a host in Japans case.

The European nations still need to playoff to decide who goes through with Georgia (12) - current favourites would be Romania (16). The next team would go to a playoff with Oceania, the rankings put Spain (18) as favourites with Russia (20) a possible. Neither is likley to win the playoff but would be strong in the reperchage.

With Aus and NZ through I beleive that the Pislands cup is acting as the ocenia qualifier. Japan are counted as Asia and are qualified as hosts anyway so discounting them its the top 2 through and third place into a playoff with (Spain?). As it stand Fiji (10) and Tonga (13) would be favourite with Samoa (14) likely to win the qualfier. The loser goes into the reperchage.

Im not sure how they are deciding the Aisan playoff team but with Japan qualified its likely Hong Kong (26) or Korea (28) neither of which will do anything.

Africa a qualifier in addition to SA, plus another in teh reperchage : Thats likley Namibia (19) or possible Kenya (23)

Argentina have qualifed for the Americas, 2 more go from their playoffs which should be Uruguay (21) and the US (17) based on rankings. They also get a reperchage spot which will probably be Canada (22). The system is weighted toward the US, with them playing home and away first and the loser playing Uruguay.

Theres actually a fair chance Canada could miss out. Certainly by current rankings they dont deserve to be there. The Americas are actaully doing pretty badly rankings wise at the moment which is quite surprising given its where growth was predicted.
The Eurpoean teams who are getting a bit screwed buy the regional allocations ...but are likely to win through the reperchage.

I have no idea why people think this is needlesly complicated

I think Asia will be based on the 2017 Asia Rugby Championship in April/May. More here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Asia_Rugby_Championship

Japan will win and have already qualified, so I'm guessing second place in this tournament takes a Repcharge place. It will be Hong Kong or Korea as you suggest.

It's worth noting, that in 2015 Asia got 1 spot, Europe got 2 and Oceania got 1. After Japan and Georgia pipped Samoa and Tonga respectively to automatic qualification, this was revised down to Asia getting 0 spots (and can only qualify through the repcharge), Europe getting 1.5 and Oceania getting 2.5. Doesn't really seem to be in the spirit of it, but will ensure the tournament stays competitive.

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:27 pm

Inter-confederation play-offs

Europe/Oceania play-off June 2018
Oceania 3 v Europe 2
Europe 2 v Oceania 3

Asia/Oceania play-off for repechage
2017 Oceania Rugby Cup winner v 2018 Asian Rugby Championship winner
2018 Asian Rugby Championship winner v 2017 Oceania Rugby Cup winner

Repechage
Teams
Confederation Placement Team
Africa Round Three runner-up July 2018
Americas Round Four loser 2018
Europe / Oceania Europe/Oceania play-off loser June 2018
Asia / Oceania Asia/Oceania play-off winner August 2018

by Gooseberry Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:33 pm

Shifty wrote:
Gooseberry wrote:Few points :

Automatic qualification was badsed on performance at the last world cup, not tier status plus being a host in Japans case.

The European nations still need to playoff to decide who goes through with Georgia (12) - current favourites would be Romania (16). The next team would go to a playoff with Oceania, the rankings put Spain (18) as favourites with Russia (20) a possible. Neither is likley to win the playoff but would be strong in the reperchage.

With Aus and NZ through I beleive that the Pislands cup is acting as the ocenia qualifier. Japan are counted as Asia and are qualified as hosts anyway so discounting them its the top 2 through and third place into a playoff with (Spain?). As it stand Fiji (10) and Tonga (13) would be favourite with Samoa (14) likely to win the qualfier. The loser goes into the reperchage.

Im not sure how they are deciding the Aisan playoff team but with Japan qualified its likely Hong Kong (26) or Korea (28) neither of which will do anything.

Africa a qualifier in addition to SA, plus another in teh reperchage : Thats likley Namibia (19) or possible Kenya (23)

Argentina have qualifed for the Americas, 2 more go from their playoffs which should be Uruguay (21) and the US (17) based on rankings. They also get a reperchage spot which will probably be Canada (22). The system is weighted toward the US, with them playing home and away first and the loser playing Uruguay.

Theres actually a fair chance Canada could miss out. Certainly by current rankings they dont deserve to be there. The Americas are actaully doing pretty badly rankings wise at the moment which is quite surprising given its where growth was predicted.
The Eurpoean teams who are getting a bit screwed buy the regional allocations ...but are likely to win through the reperchage.

I have no idea why people think this is needlessly complicated

Apparently the winner of the 6 Nations B this year gets Europe 1. Romania won it beating Georgia, so Romania would seem to be Europe 1. Georgia have qualified anyway. While Spain are third, so I'd assume Spain goes into the play off with the Pacific Island team. I'm assuming the Pacific Nations cup takes place in June, so we should know more then.

It's complicated because we can't find one single place where it's all dumbed down into boxes so we can see who's going where.

Sorry yeah i completely forgotten that Georgia had finsihed third in their pool ...which sorts any drama about Italys automatic qualification!

And youre right Romania won the Euro Championships (above Georgia ... go knows where Italy wouldve finished) and will qualify with Spain going to the playoffs which they will probably lose ..but end up as a very strong contender for the reperchage.

Absolutely it is annoying that you have to piece all the bits together from a range of sources / memory. It doesnt help that they didnt settle all the dates and methods till quite late.

A straight up " top 20 on this date" qualification would have made thinsg a lot easier but it does mean that the lower nations will get a bunch of comeptitive and meangful games as part of the process even if they dont qualify. And all teams will have qualified on merit rather than just a straight geographical split. It works out quite well that the top teams are distruibuted pretty well around the world giving it the feel of a real global event without having to fix in low ranked underserving teams.

by Shifty Mon 20 Mar 2017, 2:45 pm

Right I'm going with this:

and 1:
New Zealand, England, Australia, Ireland (ranked 1-4)

Band 2:
Scotland, France, South Africa, Wales (ranked 5-8)

Band 3:
Argentina (9), Georgia (12), Japan (11), Italy (15)

Band 4:
Oceania 1 - Fiji
Oceania 2 - Tonga
Europe 1 - Romania
Americas 1 - USA

Band 5:
Europe 2 /Oceania 3 play-off - Samoa
Americas 2 - Canada
Africa 1 - Namibia
Repage - Kenya, Uruguay, Russia or Hong Kong

Ok so...........

New Zealand
Wales
Argentina
Fiji
Samoa

Oh Crap....
Were Doomed.... Doooooooomed....... picard

But wait.....

Ireland
Wales
Georgia
Romania
Uruguay

Actually... Wales might have a chance there... Yahoo

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