Barbarians -v- British and Irish lions

The British and Irish lions tour of New Zealand kicks off at Whangarei on 3 June 2017.

 Barbarians coach Clayton McMillan has named 19 members of his 23 man squad today.

 Most will be unknown players to British readers, however you may recognise one or two...as below.


http://www.nzherald.co.nz/rugby/news/article.cfm?c_id=80&objectid=11837000

Sevu Reece

Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

More of them than the Scottish readers will in the Lions side Cyril

Gooseberry wrote:More of them than the Scottish readers will in the Lions side Cyril

Ouch.

and leave them home tae think again

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

 Thanks a bunch Cyril for grassing me up to the IRA, but I do fall for this old chestnut every time there is a British and Irish Lions tour.

 the Irish readers might know of Luteru Laulala's brother.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

 Rainbow, in fainess to Gooseberry I thought he was referring to the young lock from Tasman Quinten Strange.

I wonder if Gatland will tell the back row or Lawes if he tours, to test out the fly half with some big heavy tackles early on

WELL-PAST-IT wrote:I wonder if Gatland will tell the back row or Lawes if he tours, to test out the fly half with some big heavy tackles early on

Doubt it, he's probably embarrassed his son turned into a back, and a 10 at that. Probably wants him to get a right shoeing.

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

Part of the colonial micro attitude. The world revolves around New Zealand rugby.

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

Part of the colonial micro attitude. The world revolves around New Zealand rugby.

You really don't like New Zealand rugby much, do you?

Cyril wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

Part of the colonial micro attitude. The world revolves around New Zealand rugby.

You really don't like New Zealand rugby much, do you?

what makes you say that?

For the record i love NZ rugby, what i hate is that I've only ever seen true aggression from fans in the stands who were Kiwis and as a sport it is non quite what it appears in NZ. It has been bolstered by mercenaries for years and even though the strength and vehemence of the protests that it is not the case reveals clearly that it is, the average NZ fan won't admit it. Good job their press do.

Jonah Lowe

Who are his parents kidding?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Jonah Lowe

Who are his parents kidding?

Born May 1996 ... inspired

Granted Lowe's older brother (born 1984) was probably already showing signs of promise in 1996 so they may have been optimistic. Talented family - Karl was a Maori & Junior All Black (back when NZ still fielded an A side), & is still playing ProD2 in France, while Jonah was in NZ's JRWC squad last year, scoring 3 tries in 4 matches.

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

He was called up to the Blues squad twice. As far as I know Bryn made bench and was nothing more than an unused replacement. I know Gatland junior was highly rated at schools level but I don't think he's featured for the Baby Blacks which is somewhat surpsiring.

mikey_dragon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

He was called up to the Blues squad twice. As far as I know Bryn made bench and was nothing more than an unused replacement. I know Gatland junior was highly rated at schools level but I don't think he's featured for the Baby Blacks which is somewhat surpsiring.

Once WG is AB coach he can pick him.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

Cyril wrote:

aucklandlaurie wrote:Most will be unknown players to British readers

Will the Irish readers know any of them?

 Thanks a bunch Cyril for grassing me up to the IRA, but I do fall for this old chestnut every time there is a British and Irish Lions tour.

 the Irish readers might know of Luteru Laulala's brother.

This explains your attitude; so parochial that you think we wouldn't know what your players are up to, i think its more a reflection on your ignorance regarding the NH.

Gwlad wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

He was called up to the Blues squad twice. As far as I know Bryn made bench and was nothing more than an unused replacement. I know Gatland junior was highly rated at schools level but I don't think he's featured for the Baby Blacks which is somewhat surpsiring.

Once WG is AB coach he can pick him.

With any luck, Gatland will stay in Wales and then retire

We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

mikey_dragon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

He was called up to the Blues squad twice. As far as I know Bryn made bench and was nothing more than an unused replacement. I know Gatland junior was highly rated at schools level but I don't think he's featured for the Baby Blacks which is somewhat surpsiring.

 He got a run tonight for the Blues, for 30 minutes, kicked a penalty and a conversion, sadly a Blues loss 28 - 24 to the Hurricanes.

aucklandlaurie wrote:

mikey_dragon wrote:

rainbow-warrior wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:Junior Gatland ..oh dear

OH and Laurie you're correct, there's certainly one Strange name on the list.

Doubt you have ever seen him play idiot.

Outside chance of a Blues call up too.

Very talented player.

He was called up to the Blues squad twice. As far as I know Bryn made bench and was nothing more than an unused replacement. I know Gatland junior was highly rated at schools level but I don't think he's featured for the Baby Blacks which is somewhat surpsiring.

 He got a run tonight for the Blues, for 30 minutes, kicked a penalty and a conversion, sadly a Blues loss 28 - 24 to the Hurricanes.

Yes you'd think they know by now not to let Barrett run but Laumape's looking better with every game, made Sonny Bill look silly, could be up for AB colours.

The way Barrett is playing its possible the Lions could be facing a better 10 performance than even that of Carter in 05. Who'd have thought that would be possible but his ability to find gaps in defences is just getting ridiculous.

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair. Facts are facts. Deal with it.

Gatlands biggest challenge will be how to contain Barrett. He'd be the best player around now and is still getting better. And with Aaron Smith and Perenara firing on all cylinders in Super rugby at 9 the key to the ABs is right there.

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair.  Facts are facts. Deal with it.

You haven't mentioned a fact, you rarely do, its just your big mouth running off again. I can't see any facts just opinion. And a biased arrogant immature one at that. Opinions are like #$%holes everyone has one and in your case i expect two.

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair.  Facts are facts. Deal with it.

You haven't mentioned a fact, you rarely do, its just your big mouth running off again. I can't see any facts just opinion. And a biased arrogant immature one at that

Gats has been trying for ten years to beat the ABs and has got nowhere, and is clearly devoid of ideas. That's a fact.

Besides, an absence of facts seem to be core to all your posts where name calling and childish behaviour appear in every one. When you have any facts, you're welcome to come and play. Your rugby knowledge is somewhat disappointing nonetheless. I'm guessing the Lions tour is going to be a bad experience for you.

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair.  Facts are facts. Deal with it.

You haven't mentioned a fact, you rarely do, its just your big mouth running off again. I can't see any facts just opinion. And a biased arrogant immature one at that

Gats has been trying for ten years to beat the ABs and has got nowhere, and is clearly devoid of ideas. That's a fact.

Besides, an absence of facts seem to be core to all your posts where name calling and childish behaviour appear in every one. When you have any facts, you're welcome to come and play. Your rugby knowledge is somewhat disappointing nonetheless. I'm guessing the Lions tour is going to be a bad experience for you.

This might be news to you but the Lions is a different beast, i'd have expected you of all people to understand the principle of a rugby team made up of all sorts of different nations playing for another shirt. Keep playing the big man, I'm guessing that the Lions tour is going to be a great experience for me and hoping its a very bad one for you.

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair.  Facts are facts. Deal with it.

You haven't mentioned a fact, you rarely do, its just your big mouth running off again. I can't see any facts just opinion. And a biased arrogant immature one at that

Gats has been trying for ten years to beat the ABs and has got nowhere, and is clearly devoid of ideas. That's a fact.

Besides, an absence of facts seem to be core to all your posts where name calling and childish behaviour appear in every one. When you have any facts, you're welcome to come and play. Your rugby knowledge is somewhat disappointing nonetheless. I'm guessing the Lions tour is going to be a bad experience for you.

This might be news to you but the Lions is a different beast, i'd have expected you of all people to understand the principle of a rugby team made up of all sorts of different nations playing for another shirt. Keep playing the big man, I'm guessing that the Lions tour is going to be a great experience for me and hoping its a very bad one for you.

Having followed every Lions tour here since 1977 it's a very old concept to me. And the two tests the Lions have won in that time confirm for me that the combining of the four nations at short notice isn't a viable one in NZ. There's not enough time to get combinations going and there's certainly little chance to cultivate team 'culture' in the short time they're together, certainly it will be nothing like that of their opposition.

Lions tours typically go like this...they usually win in oz, sometimes win in SA, once in a century in NZ. It's a new century so perhaps this will be it?

With 45 straight home wins, and two at Eden park, a ground the ABs haven't lost at in the pro era, the Lions face an almost impossible task. There will be no Chicago AB side in this series. The ABs will treat this at the same level as the World Cup.

In the period of that 45 tests, the four home unions have lost nearly seventy home tests between them. Sure, they play eachother so that's inevitable but each has lost at least 13 at home. And this is away, where some of them will meet eachother for the first time.

Sure history means little, but there is a lot of it, short and long term.

Of the players, I don't see any that one player could be said to be without doubt the best in his position on the planet. Not one. There are arguments for perhaps Sexton, Launchberry, Murray and not much else.

I rate Liam Williams the best player in the NH as he has performed brilliantly against the ABs on multiple occasions, and can't say that about anyone else, except probably Murray, who's a genuine class act.

Chances are Gatland is going to get selections wrong and this time next week these boards will be mourning the non selection of a few players, that is inevitable, the Lions concept being what it is.

So yes one win in ten tests here, two in forty years and the Lions Barbarians type concept is the main reason for the confidence, but also that this years ABs could be something speacial again now they've had a year to rebuild after losing McCaw and co.

Lions here last year would probably have been a more likely win for that reason.

So arrogance or confidence, doesn't matter. The facts are there to see.

I'm not saying they can't win, just that not a lot supports it. Away from home in the rugby environment that will surround them here, very special people and players are needed for this. I just don't think Gatland is one, I think that on field leadership is thin, particularly if they go to a new midfield, which is why I think Gatland will push a Davies Roberts midfield where he can, and that won't go well with most fans.

I think Hogg will struggle at FB and would have Williams there with North and I'm not sure on the other wing. They'll likely go for a Hogg at FB and Williams on the wing to appease the masses though.

Sounds like there is no point in tuning in at all Taylorman?

I dont think that you really need a team that consists of 15 best players in the world to best the all blacks. It also doesnt really matter that you or anyone else in NZ rates the players or not.

The best way to change that is to beat the ABs. The odds will be against the Lions but I do think they have the personnel to do the job.

Is there really a chance Launchbury and JJ wont go...yet flippin Ben T'eo WILL go??!!!

That is just shocking!!!

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is there really a chance Launchbury and JJ wont go...yet flippin Ben T'eo WILL go??!!!

That is just shocking!!!

Not as shocking as JD2 going, lets hope he doesn't do a ROG and kick it down the middle, again!

TightHEAD wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is there really a chance Launchbury and JJ wont go...yet flippin Ben T'eo WILL go??!!!

That is just shocking!!!

Not as shocking as JD2 going, lets hope he doesn't do a ROG and kick it down the middle, again!

Let's hope he does.  I'm for Joe's home team this summer.  Gotta give a little loyalty back  Kiwis are the 'underdogs' and a grand bunch of people.

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is there really a chance Launchbury and JJ wont go...yet flippin Ben T'eo WILL go??!!!

That is just shocking!!!

I agree its a joke a bit like how Gatland selected Maitland and both Vunapolas on the last tour even though none were very experienced internationals.

Don't think billy was selected?

GunsGermsV2 wrote:

GeordieFalcon wrote:Is there really a chance Launchbury and JJ wont go...yet flippin Ben T'eo WILL go??!!!

That is just shocking!!!

I agree its a joke a bit like how Gatland selected Maitland and both Vunapolas on the last tour even though none were very experienced internationals.

Think you're mixing up Billy with cousin Toby there, Guns. Mako was on the tour but Billy didn't travel, he was in Argentina with England. Faletau made the touring party though. A couple of extra years development for the older family members though of course!

Maitland over Zebo was a debatable call on form last time around though.

I thought the two of them were selected for some reason. Fair enough, maybe it was Faleteau.

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sounds like there is no point in tuning in at all Taylorman?

I dont think that you really need a team that consists of 15 best players in the world to best the all blacks. It also doesnt really matter that you or anyone else in NZ rates the players or not.

The best way to change that is to beat the ABs. The odds will be against the Lions but I do think they have the personnel to do the job.

Whereas I don't, but mainly because they rarely have, the itinerary itself is a daunting one. Super sides have so far won 17 of 18 vs overseas sides and with an injury laden Chiefs putting 40-7 on Wales last year those matches are going to hurt, one way or another.

Anyway, hopefully the selection is largely accepted by the masses as a huge social media fallout between now and the tour won't help them at all.

Looking forward to 30,000 Lions fans being here, the best supporters on the planet!

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Taylorman wrote:

Gooseberry wrote:We were hoping that when the Lions job came up Ebop

Yes for me the only chance, albeit a narrow one, of a Lions series win sat with Jones as coach as he's beaten them in a major before. Gatlands never worked out how to beat the ABs, and never will.

Is your #$%^ as big as your mouth?

Oh, the little boys back from the naughty chair.  Facts are facts. Deal with it.

You haven't mentioned a fact, you rarely do, its just your big mouth running off again. I can't see any facts just opinion. And a biased arrogant immature one at that

Gats has been trying for ten years to beat the ABs and has got nowhere, and is clearly devoid of ideas. That's a fact.

Besides, an absence of facts seem to be core to all your posts where name calling and childish behaviour appear in every one. When you have any facts, you're welcome to come and play. Your rugby knowledge is somewhat disappointing nonetheless. I'm guessing the Lions tour is going to be a bad experience for you.

This might be news to you but the Lions is a different beast, i'd have expected you of all people to understand the principle of a rugby team made up of all sorts of different nations playing for another shirt. Keep playing the big man, I'm guessing that the Lions tour is going to be a great experience for me and hoping its a very bad one for you.

Having followed every Lions tour here since 1977 it's a very old concept to me. And the two tests the Lions have won in that time confirm for me that the combining of the four nations at short notice isn't a viable one in NZ. There's not enough time to get combinations going and there's certainly little chance to cultivate team 'culture' in the short time they're together, certainly it will be nothing like that of their opposition.

Lions tours typically go like this...they usually win in oz, sometimes win in SA, once in a century in NZ. It's a new century so perhaps this will be it?

With 45 straight home wins, and two at Eden park, a ground the ABs haven't lost at in the pro era, the Lions face an almost impossible task. There will be no Chicago AB side in this series. The ABs will treat this at the same level as the World Cup.

In the period of that 45 tests, the four home unions have lost nearly seventy home tests between them. Sure, they play eachother so that's inevitable but each has lost at least 13 at home. And this is away, where some of them will meet eachother for the first time.

Sure history means little, but there is a lot of it, short and long term.

Of the players, I don't see any that one player could be said to be without doubt the best in his position on the planet. Not one. There are arguments for perhaps Sexton, Launchberry, Murray and not much else.

I rate Liam Williams the best player in the NH as he has performed brilliantly against the ABs on multiple occasions, and can't say that about anyone else, except probably Murray, who's a genuine class act.

Chances are Gatland is going to get selections wrong and this time next week these boards will be mourning the non selection of a few players, that is inevitable, the Lions concept being what it is.

So yes one win in ten tests here, two in forty years and the Lions Barbarians type concept is the main reason for the confidence, but also that this years ABs could be something speacial again now they've had a year to rebuild after losing McCaw and co.

Lions here last year would probably have been a more likely win for that reason.

So arrogance or confidence, doesn't matter. The facts are there to see.

I'm not saying they can't win, just that not a lot supports it. Away from home in the rugby environment that will surround them here, very special people and players are needed for this. I just don't think Gatland is one, I think that on field leadership is thin, particularly if they go to a new midfield, which is why I think Gatland will push a Davies Roberts midfield where he can, and that won't go well with most fans.

I think Hogg will struggle at FB and would have Williams there with North and I'm not sure on the other wing. They'll likely go for a Hogg at FB and Williams on the wing to appease the masses though.

Appease the masses? what do you know about 'appeasing' the masses? Is that what Hansen does or does he select the best option he thinks he has. Another example of just how patronizing you are.

Taylorman wrote:

GunsGermsV2 wrote:Sounds like there is no point in tuning in at all Taylorman?

I dont think that you really need a team that consists of 15 best players in the world to best the all blacks. It also doesnt really matter that you or anyone else in NZ rates the players or not.

The best way to change that is to beat the ABs. The odds will be against the Lions but I do think they have the personnel to do the job.

Whereas I don't, but mainly because they rarely have, the itinerary itself is a daunting one. Super sides have so far won 17 of 18 vs overseas sides and with an injury laden Chiefs putting 40-7 on Wales last year those matches are going to hurt, one way or another.

Anyway, hopefully the selection is largely accepted by the masses as a huge social media fallout between now and the tour won't help them at all.

Looking forward to 30,000 Lions fans being here, the best supporters on the planet!

Wales came 5th in the 6 nations. They arent great at the moment. Munster beat the Maori and Ireland beat NZ this year. Ireland women and Ireland under 20s have also beat NZ in the last few years. Not relevant but just thought Id throw that out there. The point being NZ teams at all levels are beatable.

I agree with Graham Henry though the itinerary is ridiculous. Double the amount of games there should be.

.