English Championship (tier 2) - Play-Offs

First topic message reminder :

So, The 8th (and for now final) Play-Offs for promotion to the Premiership will commence on the weekend of 29th April.

(1) London Irish face (4) Doncaster
(2) Yorkshire Carnegie face (3) Ealing Trailfinders

with teh matches to be held as followed:

Play off semi-final Leg 1 April 29
Play off semi-final Leg 2 May 6

Greene King IPA Championship Final Leg 1 Wednesday 17th May: Yorkshire Carnegie vs London Irish
Greene King IPA Championship Final Leg 2 Wednesday 24th May: London Irish vs Yorkshire Carnegie


London Irish and LeedsYorkshire choose the order of their semi-finals, with the highest ranked finalist choosing the order of the final matches. Although the four semi-finalists were already known before this recent round of matches - with only the placing of 3rd and 4th still open - LI will have been pleased that Jersey, who have beaten them twice in recent weeks,  were unable to sneak into the 4th spot (in the end losing out to Doncaster on number of wins).

It is interesting that the final round of matches featured the same match-ups we shall see in the semi finals, with Yorkshire beating visitors Ealing, and LI securing an away win at Doncaster. However all sides know that the scoreboards are reset in a fortnight and it is all to play for. It seems farcical that LI could finish 33 points ahead of Doncaster, yet still lose out to them. Not many will mourn the passing of this ludicrous play-off system.

Full fixtures will be updated when known.

Yorkshire Carnegie unchanged for their second leg tomorrow night....

Yorkshire Carnegie Head Coach Bryan Redpath has named an unchanged starting line up for this Friday’s Greene King IPA Championship semi final second leg at Headingley Carnegie against Ealing Trailfinders, kick off 7.45pm.

Redpath does make two changes amongst his replacements with prop Charlie Beech and winger Seb Stegmann both back available following surgery and they replace Matt Beesley and Max Wright respectively.

Yorkshire Carnegie lead 34-16 after the first leg of the semi final last Friday at Ealing Trailfinders thanks to two tries from Jonah Holmes and one each from Alex Davies and Ryan Burrows whilst Joe Ford kicked 14 points.

The team in full is:

15. Chris Elder
14. Jonah Holmes
13. Andy Forsyth
12. Pete Lucock
11. Stevie McColl
10. Joe Ford
9. Alex Davies

1. Lewis Boyce
2. Phil Nilsen
3. Sione Faletau
4. Ben West
5. Matt Smith
6. Ollie Stedman
7. Richard Mayhew
8. Ryan Burrows (c)

16. Mike Mayhew
17. Charlie Beech
18. Mike Cusack
19. Mike Myerscough
20. Richard Beck
21. Max Green
22. Seb Stegmann

Ealing have made 2 changes with Aaron Penberthy and Arthur Ellis coming into the side....

Ealing Trailfinders v Yorkshire Carnegie, Headingley, Friday 5 May, 7.45pm

1 James Gibbons
2 Alun Walker
3 Lewis Thiede
4 Barney Maddison
5 Glen Townson
6 Kieran Murphy
7 Arthur Ellis
8 Mark Bright (captain)

9 Luke Carter
10 Aaron Penberthy
11 Lewis Jones
12 Joe Munro
13 Luke Peters
14 Curtis Wilson
15 Will Harries

Reserves
16 Rhys Lawrence
17 Will Davis
18 Alex Penny
19 Harry Casson
20 Rayn Smid
21 Chris York
22 Josh Davies

Irish unchanged for tomorrow...

London Irish have named an unchanged side for this Saturday’s Greene King IPA Championship Play-off Semi-final second leg against Doncaster Knights at the Madejski Stadium (kick-off 1.15pm).

Irish take a 35-3 lead into this weekend’s return leg, Nick Kennedy’s men running in six tries at Castle Park last Sunday.

A brace apiece from David Paice and Aseli Tikoirotuma either side of the break, coupled with further scores from Alex Lewington and Sebastian De Chaves gives Irish the advantage.

Exiles boss Kennedy wants more of the same from his troops as the club targets a place in the Championship Play-off Final.

“We had to work extremely hard to come away from Doncaster with a healthy lead and we must continue to play with the same intensity this Saturday,” said the Heineken Cup winner.

“Doncaster will be keen to bounce back from defeat and as we saw in last year’s play-offs, they are a side that can come from behind so we are certainly taking nothing for granted.”

Opting to name the same XV as last weekend, Kennedy said: “Momentum is key at this stage of the season and it makes sense to stick with a winning formula.

“I thought we played some excellent free-flowing rugby at their place, which was good to see. This season has been all about peaking at the right time and that’s what we have been aiming to do by keeping the lads fresh throughout the campaign.

“Each department, whether it’s the strength and conditioning staff to the medical team, have done superbly to prepare the lads for this situation.”

London Irish: 15 Tommy Bell, 14 Alex Lewington, 13 Aseli Tikoirotuma, 12 Fergus Mulchrone, 11 Joe Cokanasiga, 10 James Marshall, 9 Brendan McKibbin, 1 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi, 2 David Paice (c), 3 Ben Franks, 4 Sebastian De Chaves, 5 Jebb Sinclair, 6 Mike Coman, 7 Blair Cowan, 8 Ofisa Treviranus

Replacements: 16 Dave Porecki, 17 Tom Court, 18 Ollie Hoskins, 19 George Robson, 20 Conor Gilsenan, 21 Scott Steele, 22 Greig Tonks

Donny have made a couple of changes...

Doncaster Knights XV

15) Paul Jarvis, 14) Dougie Flockhart, 13) Andy Bulumakau, 12) Lloyd Hayes, 11) Tyson Lewis, 10) Simon Humberstone, 9) Michael Heaney, 1) Richard List, 2) Ben Hunter, 3) WillGriff John, 4) Matt Challinor, 5) Jarad Williams, 6) Jack Ram, 7) Michael Hills, 8) Alex Shaw.

Replacements; 16) Jack Bergmanas, 17) Dave Nelson, 18) Joe Sproston, 19) Dave Nolan, 20) Aaron Carpenter, 21) Sam Edgerley, 22) Dec Cusack.

Not at our best today, but a comfortable 39-22 win nonetheless for a 74-25 win on aggregate.

160 minutes of rugby now to define our season.

Yep. Happy enough with the performance, but obviously could have been better. I'm not overly concerned as if Lewington hadn't forgotten how to catch we probably would have been looking at at least 3 or 4 more tries over the course of the two legs. I think by the final he will be even sharper and won't be leaving those chances begging. I do hope Cokanasiga is fit or that Ransom is back as Tikoirotuma has started to look really good in the 13 shirt and I wouldn't want to break up his partnership with Mulchrone currently.

Mulchrone / Tiks partnership has really come on nicely. Along with Coman and Cowan, they were impressive in both legs. As was the front row.

Yes, almost to the point where I would be happy going into next season with that as our starting centre partnership. I say almost as I think I would still have a few restless nights sleep at the prospect of Tiks defending against JJ or Daly, but he is certainly playing with a lot of confidence at the moment. A top drawer candidate still required for that 13 shirt in my eyes.

What has happened to Johnny Williams? He looked so promising last season.

Injury I think.

Yes. He has barely featured for us this season due to various injuries. We are really hoping that he returns at full tilt, but Mulchrone's form at 12 has been outstanding this season. There are some who wonder whether Williams might be best utilised in the wider channels of 13 anyway.

London Irish:
15 Tommy Bell, 14 Alex Lewington, 13 Aseli Tikoirotuma*, 12 Fergus Mulchrone, 11 Topsy Ojo*, 10 James Marshall, 9 Brendan McKibbin, 1 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi, 2 David Paice (c)*, 3 Ben Franks*, 4 Sebastian De Chaves, 5 Jebb Sinclair*, 6 Mike Coman, 7 Blair Cowan*, 8 Ofisa Treviranus*

Replacements: 16 Dave Porecki, 17 Tom Court*, 18 Ollie Hoskins, 19 George Robson, 20 Luke Narraway*, 21 Scott Steele, 22 Greig Tonks*

*Denotes internationals

Leeds:
15. Chris Elder
14. Jonah Holmes
13. Pete Lucock
12. Tom Casson
11. Seb Stegmann
10. Joe Ford
9. Alex Davies
1. Charlie Beech
2. Mike Mayhew
3. Sione Faletua
4. Matt Smith
5. Ben West
6. Ollie Stedman
7. Richard Mayhew
8. Ryan Burrows (c)
16. Ross Graham
17. Lewis Boyce
18. Rob O‘Donnell
19. Mike Myerscough
20. Richard Beck
21. Max Green
22. Stevie McColl

Not long now until kick off.  Apparently it's chucking it down oop north, so this may not be much of a spectacle.

Sat in Sheffield looking out from my office, it's been raining steadily most if the day. Hopefully the pitch is in a decent state, but it's definitely a day for the pack. Pretty nervous now...

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

Irish should simply have too much for the other teams though, the scoreline against Yorkshire in Headingley looked reasonably tight but Yorkshire threw everything at Irish and the NotNots were able to stroll to victory without ever really needing to get out of second gear.

Sort of...

Our fly half went off injured early on and without specialist flyhalf cover in the squad it was always going to be tough (plus it meant we had to rejig the entire backline). I'd also say some of our handling was very poor and we did our best to waste chances all on our own, rather than as a result of fine LI defence.

Had we played to our full potential that day, I think we would have seen Irish off relatively comfortably. I thought they were pretty poor but tbh, they were probably resting and recharging prior to the playoffs (see the two losses Irish incurred shortly afterwards for details. To borrow your analogy, I think Irish were actually in 3rd gear and we were probably in 2nd gear. So whilst I reject the notion that we threw everything at them, unfortunately I agree that should Irish hit 1st gear, they will be too good for us.

We have the best pack in the league, despite the plaudits our coaching staff and players give to the packs that we face.  Our maul has been fantastic all season and for the most part so has our scrum.  If it's an arm wrestle then I'm not too fussed.  I'd be more concerned by the Carnegie back three on a dry hard ground as they are rapid and difficult to defend against if given any space.

cascough wrote:

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:

Irish should simply have too much for the other teams though, the scoreline against Yorkshire in Headingley looked reasonably tight but Yorkshire threw everything at Irish and the NotNots were able to stroll to victory without ever really needing to get out of second gear.

Sort of...

Our fly half went off injured early on and without specialist flyhalf cover in the squad it was always going to be tough (plus it meant we had to rejig the entire backline). I'd also say some of our handling was very poor and we did our best to waste chances all on our own, rather than as a result of fine LI defence.

Had we played to our full potential that day, I think we would have seen Irish off relatively comfortably. I thought they were pretty poor but tbh, they were probably resting and recharging prior to the playoffs (see the two losses Irish incurred shortly afterwards for details. To borrow your analogy, I think Irish were actually in 3rd gear and we were probably in 2nd gear. So whilst I reject the notion that we threw everything at them, unfortunately I agree that should Irish hit 1st gear, they will be too good for us.

You were definitely unlucky with your fly half situation that day, and it wasn't a particularly good game with both sides making a lot of errors. If it's wet and horrible tonight it's likely to come down to the team that makes the fewest errors, so if we can do that again I'll be happy.

Weather has been pretty poor for a couple of days so expect the ball to play like a bar of soap. Given the nature of the final it's not good news for Yorkshire as edging out a tight win at home won't really mean much.

As of 6.30 it's pouring down in Leeds

Far to open a game and our defensive alignment and line speed is not up to it's normal standards. 15-13 to Carnegie.

Holmes and ford looking good bits of business for Tigers so far.

Welly wrote: Holmes and ford looking good bits of business for Tigers so far.

Good we need some. Very hopeful of Holmes offering us some genuine pace. Joe Ford, well if he can just offer a steady hand like Staunton used to I'd be happy with that.

All been Irish since Doyle bottled a clear card for the high tackle on Holmes. Swinging arm never below the shoulder and Jonah hadn't dipped down.

15-20 after 60, Yorkshire absolutely have to take a lead into the second leg to have any chance.

Edit: and now no yellow for a clear obstruction on a kick through by the last defender. Irish certainly don't need this help.

Let's hope they don't then

18-29 FT - A bit of breathing space for the home leg and hopefully better weather

Fuzzy Dunlop wrote:All been Irish since Doyle bottled a clear card for the high tackle on Holmes. Swinging arm never below the shoulder and Jonah hadn't dipped down.

15-20 after 60, Yorkshire absolutely have to take a lead into the second leg to have any chance.

Edit: and now no yellow for a clear obstruction on a kick through by the last defender. Irish certainly don't need this help.

Maybe Doyle is repaying us for all the past injustices he's done to us e.g. red card for a perfectly legal tackle. Daft having to go through this anyway having finished 17 points clear at the top and beaten all play-off rivals already home & away this season.

Agree with that.
Never been a fan of the play offs.

Irish lucky to not get 2 yellows.
Don't think the tackle on Holmes was worthy of a red.

Fancy Irish to have a good win next week.
Quick return back to the prem.

1st half down and it’s job done oop north. Time to regroup and finish the job next Wednesday now.

I thought for 60 minutes Carnegie played really well and threw the kitchen sink at us as expected, but by the end we were completely dominant and potentially could have opted to scrum again rather than kick the last penalty and gone for the try which would have made the winning margin even bigger.

With regard the potential yellow cards I’d have had no complaints in all honesty, but by the same token JP let Carnegie away with murder both defending mauls and at the breakdown, particularly near to their own line. I don’t rate him as a referee whatsoever, and cringe every time I see his name down to referee us at it always seems to turn into the JP show, which his handling of some incident or other being a major talking point post match.

One thing I am incredibly glad about is that I hopefully won’t have to watch and listen to Sky Sports Championship coverage ever again, as it is truly appalling. No insight whatsoever and it was clear that the commentators and pundits have only watched a handful of Championship games all season. Whilst clearly there were some nerves from us (understandably given what is riding on the result) we did what we needed to do and found a way to win. I think it may have been Jacques Burger who said once They say ugly win, boring win, tough win, gutsy win, close win….. All I hear is win” and that’s kind of how I feel about last night. It was never going to be a walkover for us, away from home, in pouring rain against a team who knew if they had any chance they had to come out firing and go into next week in the lead, but we withstood that and won by a comfortable margin. According to Sky though, we were edgy and Carnegie were fantastic.

Hey ho, roll on next Wednesday and hopefully we’ll finish the job.

Yep should have gone for a scrum at the end ... probably would have taken a 15 point lead into next week's game which would be a huge mountain for YC to climb ...

Was fine with them pointing to the posts in those circumstances with it in front of the posts. Slightly conservative, but get the points on the board

On countless occasions I've seen team with a dominant scrum fail to convert in similar positions (ball shooting out the scrum/getting the timing wrong and not getting the shunt on etc)

Hate the play offs by the way. Was at the game last night and I can't remember a less enjoyable game to watch with the stakes so high and the feeling that we'd already earned promotion and shouldn't really be having to go through this carry on. Would have been more than happy with an 11 point lead to go into the second leg if offered before the game (even more so at HT!). Just need to get the job done next week. Hoping for a dull affair entirely lacking in drama

I'm with you re the play-offs - stupid and unfair - shame they didn't get rid of them in time for this season.

Roll on Wednesday, this week is dragging!!!

Ozzy3213 wrote:Roll on Wednesday, this week is dragging!!!

Hang in there Pete, everything is going to be ok................

Heaf wrote:I'm with you re the play-offs - stupid and unfair - shame they didn't get rid of them in time for this season.

Yorkshire deserve to be in the final just as much as Irish. Everyone knows the score at the start of the season. Some of this sense of entitlement by London Irish fans is a little rich.

Just because you know what the system is doesn't mean the system is right ... LI have won all games bar one in the league including beating YC 3 times out of 3 so far - the fact that they could feasibly fail to get promoted if they have one bad day at the office or similar is just plain wrong ...

Heaf wrote:Just because you know what the system is doesn't mean the system is right ... LI have won all games bar one in the league including beating YC 3 times out of 3 so far - the fact that they could feasibly fail to get promoted if they have one bad day at the office or similar is just plain wrong ...

I see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but you deal with the situation at hand 

I thought that Doyle pretty much handed the first leg to Irish though by ignoring 2 blatant yellow cards. Awful ref. Not biased exactly, but hmmm. YC were stopped in their tracks by horrible reffing.

Doyle has always been terrible and LI have normally been on the wrong end - ironically once including a red card that was a perfectly legal tackle, but I agree LI were lucky not to get at least one yellow - however he was also allowing YC to get away with a lot of stuff too - how he gets to ref at international level is a complete mystery to me.

Cyril wrote:

Heaf wrote:Just because you know what the system is doesn't mean the system is right ... LI have won all games bar one in the league including beating YC 3 times out of 3 so far - the fact that they could feasibly fail to get promoted if they have one bad day at the office or similar is just plain wrong ...

I see where you're coming from, don't get me wrong, but you deal with the situation at hand 

I thought that Doyle pretty much handed the first leg to Irish though by ignoring 2 blatant yellow cards. Awful ref. Not biased exactly, but hmmm. YC were stopped in their tracks by horrible reffing.

Doyle also missed about 3 penalty tries that Irish should have had for the worst cases of entering the side of a maul that I had seen in years. I was furious with those decisions, so all in all I think he got things wrong on both sides.

But those mistakes were made for both teams so it hardly evens out the absolute howlers he made by not giving cards. No one is denying that Irish are miles ahead of YC but to suggest that both teams got the same out of the ref seems crazy to me.

Obviously no one knows what would've happened had a red been given for the nasty swinging arm to Jonah's face. However, considering how the game was going at the time it's not too unreasonable to think that YC could have taken some kind of lead into the return leg.

Even with a lead it's incredibly unlikely that Yorkshire could stop Irish from running rampant, but at least they'd have had a fighting chance. As it is, it's probably not even worth watching for anyone who isn't an Irish fan, given the certainty of the result.

Personally not bothered if it's not a spectacle for the neutral as long as we get the job done and go up. Did we get lucky with Tiks not being carded? Sure, but we've been on the wrong end of refereeing decision s plenty of time in the past. It's part of the game.

London Irish:
15 Tommy Bell, 14 Alex Lewington, 13 Ciaran Hearn*, 12 Fergus Mulchrone, 11 Topsy Ojo*, 10 James Marshall, 9 Brendan McKibbin, 1 Danny Hobbs-Awoyemi, 2 David Paice (c)*, 3 Ben Franks*, 4 Sebastian De Chaves, 5 Jebb Sinclair*, 6 Mike Coman, 7 Blair Cowan*, 8 Ofisa Treviranus*

Replacements: 16 Dave Porecki, 17 Tom Court*, 18 Ollie Hoskins, 19 George Robson, 20 Luke Narraway*, 21 Scott Steele, 22 Greig Tonks*

*Denotes internationals

London Irish have made one change for this Wednesday’s Greene King IPA Championship second leg clash against Yorkshire Carnegie at the Madejski Stadium (kick-off 7.45pm).

Canadian international Ciaran Hearn replaces Aseli Tikoirotuma at centre, the Fijian ruled out through suspension.

http://www.englandrugby.com/governance/discipline/video/asaeli-tikioirotuma-london-irish-citing/

Yorkshire Carnegie head coach Bryan Redpath has made two changes to his starting line up to face London Irish in the second leg of Greene King IPA Championship Final this Wednesday 24th May.

The backs remain unchanged and the two changes see Michael Cusack start in place of Sione Faletau, who is named on the bench after suffering a head injury in the first leg, and Mike Myerscough also comes into the starting line up, with Ben West among the replacements.

On the bench England Under-20s centre Max Wright replaces Stevie McColl.

15. Chris Elder
14. Jonah Holmes
13. Pete Lucock
12. Tom Casson
11. Seb Stegmann
10. Joe Ford
9. Alex Davies
1. Charlie Beech
2. Mike Mayhew
3. Michael Cusack
4. Matt Smith
5. Mike Myerscough
6. Ollie Stedman
7. Richard Mayhew
8. Ryan Burrows (c)
16. Ross Graham
17. Lewis Boyce
18. Sione Faletau
19. Ben West
20. Richard Beck
21. Max Green
22. Max Wright

One place Yorkshire could get the edge on Irish is if they try and target Ojo with Holmes.

Outside of that it should be one way traffic.

Margin_Walker wrote:Personally not bothered if it's not a spectacle for the neutral as long as we get the job done and go up.  Did we get lucky with Tiks not being carded? Sure, but we've been on the wrong end of refereeing decision s plenty of time in the past. It's part of the game.

Yup. I don't care if it's a 0-0 draw tomorrow night, it's all about getting promoted. With regards to Tiks, I'd have had no complaints if he'd been yellow carded, but in all honesty a 4 game ban is joke. The whole disciplinary process needs an overhaul.

As for JP Doyle, I've never rated him, he is a truly atrocious ref. Almost every single game I've seen him referee ends up with huge discussions about his decisions.

Ozzy3213 wrote:

Margin_Walker wrote:Personally not bothered if it's not a spectacle for the neutral as long as we get the job done and go up.  Did we get lucky with Tiks not being carded? Sure, but we've been on the wrong end of refereeing decision s plenty of time in the past. It's part of the game.

Yup.  I don't care if it's a 0-0 draw tomorrow night, it's all about getting promoted.  With regards to Tiks, I'd have had no complaints if he'd been yellow carded, but in all honesty a 4 game ban is joke.  The whole disciplinary process needs an overhaul.  

As for JP Doyle, I've never rated him, he is a truly atrocious ref.  Almost every single game I've seen him referee ends up with huge discussions about his decisions.

The high tackle law certainly does seem to be over-zealously and inconsistently applied but, for me, that 'tackle' was a swinging arm to the head and a definite red. I don't think that a few games ban is over the top. I don't think it was particularly nasty (or done with intent) but it was very clumsy and achieved what the new ruling is trying to prevent ie caused head injury.

What was unbelievable was Doyle never even considered viewing the video.

Re. Irish. I fully expect them to do the job and win comfortably in the 2nd leg and will be worthy winners YC have been the best of the rest, but there's a pretty big gap between LI and everyone else.

But that's the thing Cyril, it didn't cause a head injury. He never left the field, played on and is playing this week. Based on the current applications of the laws, which do seem to take into account injury caused (I don't think they should) and not just the act, it's a yellow card.

I agree 100% that JP should have gone to the TMO, and it would have been an interesting game had we gone down to 14 men for 10 minutes.

It's done now, it is what it is. Tiks has been in good attacking form so he'll be a loss in that regard, but the defensive link between him and the wingers was an area Carnegie exploited in the first half, so having Hearn in there who is a better defender than Tiks may not be such a bad thing.

Ozzy3213 wrote:But that's the thing Cyril, it didn't cause a head injury.  He never left the field, played on and is playing this week.  Based on the current applications of the laws, which do seem to take into account injury caused (I don't think they should) and not just the act, it's a yellow card.  

I agree 100% that JP should have gone to the TMO, and it would have been an interesting game had we gone down to 14 men for 10 minutes.

It's done now, it is what it is.  Tiks has been in good attacking form so he'll be a loss in that regard, but the defensive link between him and the wingers was an area Carnegie exploited in the first half, so having Hearn in there who is a better defender than Tiks may not be such a bad thing.

It may not have caused lasting damage or caused him to miss the rest of the game (or subsequent games) but I'd still say he received a head injury given that he had fairly lengthy treatment and looked pretty dazed after the incident. I'd say it's more luck than judgment that he didn't get concussion either from the original impact or bouncing his head on the ground a la George North. I'm undecided on whether injury caused should be a factor in punishment (as with players competing for a high ball) as real intent can sometimes not cause injury (ie a missed punch) and innocuous challenges can accidentally cause real damage. I can understand why it's been brought in as a factor though as it should encourage players to exercise more care and minimise the chances of bad outcomes, always understanding that you can't eradicate them completely due to the nature of the game.