Champions trophy 2017 discussion thread

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

First topic message reminder :

So it all kicks off today with England's game against Bangladesh at the oval

My prediction is victory for Australia overall....

Should be a really entertaining tournament!

[KP_fan]

SA has not been able to get into the 5th gear....so far..

although they will get 300 and 300s are flowing in  every game...the pitches are not quite the pattas of subcontinent......seamers get a bit of nibble off the pitch as late as even 42nd over the inning

[alfie]

If they get 300 it will only be barely...

Good but underachieving ? Should win though...

[KP_fan]

If they get 300 it will only be barely...

Good but underachieving ? Should win though...

 give credit to the bowling
and the pitch as i said before...has something in for the bowlers if they bend their back for seamers
and the ball gripping juts a bit for spinners and also to seamers slower deliveries.

300 for win needs lanka and they go into bat  with SA 70-30 favorites...Lanka's only chance if one of their top 3 plays a big 100

well played dumminy for his 20 ball 38....very consequential

and I just realize Matthews  is not playing

[alfie]

If they get 300 it will only be barely...

Good but underachieving ? Should win though...

 give credit to the bowling
and the pitch as i said before...has something in for the bowlers if they bend their back for seamers
and the ball gripping juts a bit for spinners and also to seamers slower deliveries.

300 for win needs lanka and they go into bat  with SA 70-30 favorites...Lanka's only chance if one of their top 3 plays a big 100

well played dumminy for his 20 ball 38....very consequential

True. Sri Lanka pretty good there at the death. I didn't see all the innings (been watching a Scotsman enjoying himself in Paris) but did expect SA to kick on more from about 35 overs . As you say , sometimes you have to credit the bowlers.
Certainly wouldn't rule Sri Lanka out . They have some powerful top order players ; but the SA bowling should be too good.

[guildfordbat]

South Africa 225/3 off 41.

Suspect we'll see for the first time in this tournament a team going properly big in the closing overs. Something that Bangladesh and New Zealand failed to do when setting a target.

Well, that was a bit of a jinx! Better that Bangladesh and New Zealand managed in the last two days but not the blistering assault I expected.

[alfie]

Decent start by Sri Lanka. 299 may not be enough ?

SA bowlers not really getting their lines right yet. Dickwella enjoying this

[KP_fan]

Lankans have been full of  pluck....going ahead of the run rate.......they will start running out of steam with this approach.....
but will they still have enough to get to 300

interestingly poised

[wisden]

Easy win for SA, no suprise there...good warm up for then...and wickets for Tahir

[KP_fan]

so they ran out of steam....faster than expected....the only upset likely was thwarted by Rain yesterday.

tomm the biggest game of the CT

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

so they ran out of steam....faster than expected....the only upset likely was thwarted by Rain yesterday.

tomm the biggest game of the CT

But England-Australia is next Saturday?

[KP_fan]

so they ran out of steam....faster than expected....the only upset likely was thwarted by Rain yesterday.

tomm the biggest game of the CT

But England-Australia is next Saturday?

http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/40108344

BBC thinks it's possibly the biggest match in Sport ( and not just cricket)
One Billion people are likely to follow this game in some form says BBC

Warwickshire cricket believes Tomm's match could have been "sold out six times over" had they had the seats
http://www.bbc.com/sport/cricket/40132478

[KP_fan]

Ind leave out ashwin, shami and karthik...all of whom were contenders

Yuvraj has had no practice....and karthik scored an unbeaten 94...so a bit hard this decision

and shami is probably rightly  sitting out inpste of being brilliant ....4th in the peking order on form now
having an extra seamer is also the right thing ahead of ashwin

[KP_fan]

that Ind has allowed the piddly slow left arm non spinner to get away 2 overs for 7 runs in PP is not good

[jimbohammers]

Very slow start from India. Pakistan bowling well

[KP_fan]

rohit hitting well on the rise....
dhawan...because he is playing too close to the body is getting tucked up.....after 5 more overs he can start opening his arms a bit

[KP_fan]

Rain stops play.
This stop start at best creates a lottery with D/L coming in with its vagaries
And worst a washout like Nz unfortunately faced.

If an international tournament is held in Eng ...they need to have a reserve day for each game and on the reserve day game should start from where it stopped.
And extended hours / lighting arrangement attempt late evening finish

[KP_fan]

Ind play good old fashioned ODI cricket.....45 in 10 overs....

100 in 20 overs.....

on trajectory for a 300...with all the wickets in hand

[KP_fan]

the stop start rain breaks have stolen india of the momentum..they need a big finish in last 10

[KP_fan]

113 of last 9
77 of last 5
72 in last 4 overs

all top 4 get 50 and No.5 20* off 6 deliveries....Wahab and Amir fell apart to injuries...in the midst of their overs


Super-Duper-Bumper finish by India....Carnage in the last 4 overs 

it's one thing ot have fire power on paper and exeperience of finishing in IPL....

it's another to implement it in an international game with large boundaries against 90mph pacers in the heat of an India-Pak game

beaten, smashed and pumelled the Pakistani side

now just hope that rain stays away for long enught to complete the rites

[wisden]

Far too many for Pakistan...they have real trouble chasing 300 in 50 overs, so for me its India's to lose

[KP_fan]

Rain curtailment is Pak's best chance

[KP_fan]

289 in 41 revised target

India needs to pick wickets.....and then after the next D/L revision...the target will get stiffer

[KP_fan]

Indian bowlers are bowling with pace and although pitch is flat its not the Patta that we have in India....there is a bit of nibble off the seam and bounce if the bowler bends his back....making  it hard to hit through the line  like  a batsman can on Indian pitches.....

and the pace of Indian bowlers is also make it difficult for Pakistani batsmen to go through the line.....all are in 140-145kph

Indian fielding has been uncharacteristically shoddy

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

Pakistan and Sri Lanka are playing for 3rd and 4th in this group - well, well below the levels of SA/Ind

[KP_fan]

Pandya fast rising in stature......from half a Ben Stokes half a season back....to a 2/3rd  of a Stokes now

[KP_fan]

India .thoroughly and comprehensively beat Pak...steam-rolled them to be honest.

India's bowling is superb.....4 seamers hitting 140+ and Shami equally capable inn reserves...
2 bowling allrounders
and a lot of inning building batsmen

India and Eng are looking like in a different zone by the look of their one game each......on a trajectory to meet in the finals

SA it should be the other semi-finalist from this group and the other group still wide open...don't rule out BD either
It could be an Ind-BD semi I think

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

India .thoroughly and comprehensively beat Pak...steam-rolled them to be honest.

India's bowling is superb.....4 seamers hitting 140+ and Shami equally capable inn reserves...
2 bowling allrounders
and a lot of inning building batsmen

India and Eng are looking like in a different zone by the look of their one game each......on a trajectory to meet in the finals

SA it should be the other semi-finalist from this group and the other group still wide open...don't rule out BD either
It could be an Ind-BD semi I think

Sorry KP_F but there's no way BD is beating Aus, and on the basis of what they showed against Aus, they are going to struggle against NZ too.

India very impressive today - Pakistan wholly underwhelming, and with the Wahab/Amir injuries, their tournament is already over

[Galted]

I wouldn't be too surprised to see Pakistan knocking SA over, they have a recent history in tournaments - using a Dad's army of full and part time spinners to chok throttle the SA middle and lower order.

[KP_fan]

India .thoroughly and comprehensively beat Pak...steam-rolled them to be honest.

India's bowling is superb.....4 seamers hitting 140+ and Shami equally capable inn reserves...
2 bowling allrounders
and a lot of inning building batsmen

India and Eng are looking like in a different zone by the look of their one game each......on a trajectory to meet in the finals

SA it should be the other semi-finalist from this group and the other group still wide open...don't rule out BD either
It could be an Ind-BD semi I think

Sorry KP_F but there's no way BD is beating Aus, and on the basis of what they showed against Aus, they are going to struggle against NZ too.

India very impressive today - Pakistan wholly underwhelming, and with the Wahab/Amir injuries, their tournament is already over

BD can beat NZ ( they did so in Ireland triangular)....and get a rained off game vs. Aus
it's a bit of wish I know...but not entirely out of the realms of possibility

[Gooseberry]

Sorry KP_F but there's no way BD is beating Aus, and on the basis of what they showed against Aus, they are going to struggle against NZ too.

India very impressive today - Pakistan wholly underwhelming, and with the Wahab/Amir injuries, their tournament is already over

Thats a bold statement. I assume the middle section of teh first line should read " what they showed against us". You could say the same for what Aus showed against NZ, they should have been utterly spanked had it not been for rain. As with Bangladesh theres too much filler in the side to be covered by a couple of big names, although both " on their day" have players capable of putting in huge individual performances.
Bangladesh may lack seamers but we have seen spinners have some succeses even in these conditions. New Zealand too lack quality through their XI but still put in what should have been a match winning performance against AUS. Really to me these 3 teams can all beat each other on any given day, and yes in theory England should beat them all ...but as with the injuries mounting and the nature of cricket none are a sure fire thing.
And although Im slating Aus and some of their players youc ant write them off in these tournaments. Maybe they will switch on and become that champion side again.

England should stroll through but its not impossible they could blow it, and behind them any of the 3 could paper rock scissors each other....although its difficult to see Bangladesh progressing. Really its down to Aus to pull their socks up and get a big win over Bangladesh to make up run rate on NZ ...and in searching for that they could blow it altogether.
None of them are likely to go on an win the thing though.

The other group SA and India look pretty formidable opponents. Its hard to judge just how bad Pakistan and Sri Lanaka really are of course, but it was a solid all round performances from sides which have a bit of everything and players who deserve a spot from 1 to 11. Full strength England we know have the beating of SA. So I pretty much agree with KPFs assertion that those two are the favourites, but they could end up meeting in the semis. Its certainly pretty hard to see anything other than India England SA + Aus or NZ in the semis...and the winners coming from the first 3 of those.

[guildfordbat]

...

England should stroll through but its not impossible they could blow it, and behind them any of the 3 could paper rock scissors each other....although its difficult to see Bangladesh progressing. Really its down to Aus to pull their socks up and get a big win over Bangladesh to make up run rate on NZ ...and in searching for that they could blow it altogether.
None of them are likely to go on an win the thing though.

...

Rain forecast for much of this afternoon and all evening at the Oval. That could mean a no result in the day/nighter between these sides and do no favours to Australia's run rate.

[Pal Joey]

Doesn't sound all that good, Guildford.

I disagree with the sentiment expressed by some that the player-CA dispute should provide some motivation for the team. I think the opposite has more chance of happening!

Since when does internal turmoil and money-based anxiety produce desired result? Fairly rarely I would say.

Besides, The 'Desh are renowned for smelling blood and thriving on opposition uncertainty...

Cue the implosion!

[guildfordbat]

Hope I'm wrong, LD. We really need to hear from the Corporal for a fully accurate forecast - that's his speciality. I'm no more than his Surrey bag carrier.

Like you, I don't think the player-CA dispute will help Australia. Anxiety for any sportsman off the pitch is never good for performance on it. More a case imo as to whether they can put it out of mind.

[Pal Joey]

Yeah... I'm not too confident they are in a good head space.

Even Olly (a few days ago) sounded more confident that I am right now. No doubt he will come (or already has come) to his senses too.

Hope I'm wrong too but I think India, SA and England look the goods thus far. I'm tipping a England-India final based on what I've seen so far.

[jimbohammers]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

[Pal Joey]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Oh well, what can one do?

We could do with some rain here... so damn dry. I have to keep watering the new lawns to keep the shoots ticking.

[Pete C (Kiwireddevil)]

...

England should stroll through but its not impossible they could blow it, and behind them any of the 3 could paper rock scissors each other....although its difficult to see Bangladesh progressing. Really its down to Aus to pull their socks up and get a big win over Bangladesh to make up run rate on NZ ...and in searching for that they could blow it altogether.
None of them are likely to go on an win the thing though.

...

Rain forecast for much of this afternoon and all evening at the Oval. That could mean a no result in the day/nighter between these sides and do no favours to Australia's run rate.

I'm getting paid £30 to do a couple of hours of netball umpiring in Fulham tonight. So I'm afraid it's going to hose down

Forecast for Vauxhall is showers from 5pm, heavy rain from 6pm

[jimbohammers]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Oh well, what can one do?

We could do with some rain here... so damn dry. I have to keep watering the new lawns to keep the shoots ticking.

Well nothing, obviously. Im just saying this must be the only sport where weather has such a big say on the result.

'How did you do?'
'We got knocked out in the group stage'
'Oh did you play bad?'
'No it rained'

[Pal Joey]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Oh well, what can one do?

We could do with some rain here... so damn dry. I have to keep watering the new lawns to keep the shoots ticking.

Well nothing, obviously. Im just saying this must be the only sport where weather has such a big say on the result.

'How did you do?'
'We got knocked out in the group stage'
'Oh did you play bad?'
'No it rained'

Yes. Too true.
Then again we've been aided by rain which negatively affected other teams and gone on to win ICC tournaments. 2007 final v SL springs to mind.

[robbo277]

Sorry KP_F but there's no way BD is beating Aus, and on the basis of what they showed against Aus, they are going to struggle against NZ too.

India very impressive today - Pakistan wholly underwhelming, and with the Wahab/Amir injuries, their tournament is already over

Thats a bold statement. I assume the middle section of teh first line should read " what they showed against us". You could say the same for what Aus showed against NZ, they should have been utterly spanked had it not been for rain. As with Bangladesh theres too much filler in the side to be covered by a couple of big names, although both " on their day" have players capable of putting in huge individual performances.
Bangladesh may lack seamers but we have seen spinners have some succeses even in these conditions. New Zealand too lack quality through their XI but still put in what should have been a match winning performance against AUS. Really to me these 3 teams can all beat each other on any given day, and yes in theory England should beat them all ...but as with the injuries mounting and the nature of cricket none are a sure fire thing.
And although Im slating Aus and some of their players youc ant write them off in these tournaments. Maybe they will switch on and become that champion side again.

England should stroll through but its not impossible they could blow it, and behind them any of the 3 could paper rock scissors each other....although its difficult to see Bangladesh progressing. Really its down to Aus to pull their socks up and get a big win over Bangladesh to make up run rate on NZ ...and in searching for that they could blow it altogether.
None of them are likely to go on an win the thing though.

The other group SA and India look pretty formidable opponents. Its hard to judge just how bad Pakistan and Sri Lanaka really are of course, but it was a solid all round performances from sides which have a bit of everything  and players who deserve a spot from 1 to  11. Full strength England we know have the beating of SA. So I pretty much agree with KPFs assertion that those two are the favourites, but they could end up meeting in the semis. Its certainly pretty hard to see anything other than India England SA + Aus or NZ in the semis...and the winners coming from the first 3 of those.

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

England could blow it from here, but the rain did us a huge favour. 1 win against either Australia or NZ will put us through regardless of other results.

Ignoring the Aus/BD game, if England beat NZ - we'll be on 4, Aus on 1, NZ on 1 (unable to catch us) and BD will be on 0. The winner of Aus/BD could go on to overhaul us, but not both of them.

Even if we lose to NZ, if we beat Aus it will be the same situation in reverse, regardless of what's gone before.

If the Australia vs Bangladesh game is rained off;
- and England beat NZ, England will qualify with 4 points, Australia will have 2 and NZ and Bangladesh will both have 1. Australia will have to win to qualify.
- and NZ beat England, NZ will have 3 points, Australia and England will have 2 and Bangladesh will have 1. Australia and England will effectively be in a quarter-final game.
- and England/NZ is rained off, England will have 3 points, Australia and NZ will have 2 and Bangladesh will have 1. Australia will have to beat England as at least one of NZ and Bangladesh will finish on 3 points (unless we have the farcical situation where all three of Australia's games are rained off, they finish on 3 and it becomes a complete lottery!)

Either way, if today's game ends with no result, Australia's entire tournament will come down to an all-or-nothing game against the hosts

[Gooseberry]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Given how badly humped they were getting by NZ they are more likely to benefit from the bonus its given them thus far than lose out.

[Good Golly I'm Olly]

BBC weather indicating that we'll get rain from 5pm and its unlikely to stop after that

[alfie]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Oh well, what can one do?

We could do with some rain here... so damn dry. I have to keep watering the new lawns to keep the shoots ticking.

Plenty of rain here in Melbourne , LD. Move south for a better climate ?

[alfie]

Will be a great pity if rain ruins the whole tournament. In theory all round two could be wiped out ? Is that what I'm hearing ?
Making the last matches knock outs...

But I think it's a stretch to try and predict even semi finalists at this point : we can say who looks good , and who ought to win ; but this is limited over cricket and quite frankly anyone can beat anyone on a day . Though obviously the three teams that have already gained winners points have an advantage at this stage - not least because of the doubtful weather.

[Pal Joey]

Australia could go out of the tournament due to the weather. Ridiculous isn't it?

Oh well, what can one do?

We could do with some rain here... so damn dry. I have to keep watering the new lawns to keep the shoots ticking.

Plenty of rain here in Melbourne , LD.  Move south for a better climate ?

Slightly above my weather threshold I'm afraid, alfie. Some downpour is predicted but mostly near the coast. Love Melbourne though.

[alfie]

Well no rain at the ground yet : Tamim unusually restrained so far by his standards
Hazelwood taking up where he left off with the first wicket...

This is starting too late for me on a work night ...may wake up for the finish if weather allows one.

[guildfordbat]

Raining at Southampton. That may or may not be relevant here but it's potentially disastrous for Hants supporter Jimbo!

[Pal Joey]

Well no rain at the ground yet : Tamim unusually restrained so far by his standards
Hazelwood taking up where he left off with the first wicket...

This is starting too late for me on a work night ...may wake up for the finish if weather allows one.

Me too. Listen to ABC Grandstand if possible. I have it on low volume... crisp digital sound. The subconscious usually picks up the fall of wickets.

Nice to see Cummins get a wicket.

[Gooseberry]

Certainly goign Aus' way so far. They had beeter pary for no rain.
The forecasts have it getting wet from around 6pm ...which is the worst case for them. Early rain breaks duiring the Bangladesh innings would at leats shortern the game and give them a chance of egtting 20 over minimum in themselves to DL it.
But if the rain holds off untill the innings break and they just get an hour or so of playbale time after that they are screwed and left requiring a win against England.

[robbo277]

The other thing is when does Tamim go for it? He's 51 from 73 and he built his innings in a similar fashion against England. Although the forecast is looking more positive, if rain curtails the innings will he have time to catch-up?

NB: Got distracted at the office before posting and saw he hit two sixes. He could still do with a couple more!

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