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Can a- now South African- Leopard, change his spots?

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Can a- now South African- Leopard, change his spots? Empty Can a- now South African- Leopard, change his spots?

Post by Taylorman Tue 07 Jun 2011, 8:43 pm

Interesting comments from Lions and ex AB coach Mitchell...

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5111755/All-Blacks-need-change-of-direction-John-Mitchell

I think he's right about the difference in the breakdown between this and last year as the tide seems to be turning back towards the kicking game. Graham Henry alluded to this when starting out on the expansive game- things will evolve by the time the WC comes around.

But from his current role of cellar dweller Lions and near death experience, will that be enough to change the minds of those who saw in him previously a very, very divisive character.

I'm one for giving second chances (but not 3 or 4..Donald Duck and bakkies!) so it would be interesting what his current players think of him...


Last edited by Taylorman on Tue 07 Jun 2011, 8:44 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : typo)

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Post by Adam D Tue 07 Jun 2011, 8:46 pm

The article mentioned in full:

Former All Blacks coach John Mitchell believes a shift in rule interpretations by referees is playing into South Africa's hands in the run-up to the Rugby World Cup.

The forthright Lions coach said the All Blacks will have to shelve the expansive counter-attacking style used to dominate world rugby last year as it becomes more and more difficult to maintain possession at the tackle.

"Last year's breakdown was a lot different to this year," he said last week when asked to assess the cup hopes of New Zealand, Australia and South Africa. "The tackler assist is getting away with murder in this comp [Super Rugby], so I think you will see a World Cup of territory and kicking goals.

"The breakdown will be a huge influence, how you look after and hold on to your own ball and how you can get away with slowing down the opposition's.

"That will certainly help the Boks. Their kicking game last year was poor when they didn't get the balance right between run, pass and kick and they gave the All Blacks and Australia too much possession.

"But you have to respect the fact that they play great pressure football."

Mitchell's Lions have had another difficult season, but the Stormers, Bulls and Sharks could all make the Super Rugby playoffs with the former two playing a conservative brand of rugby.

Mitchell, who coached the All Blacks from 2001 up to the 2003 World Cup, said selection and discipline would be crucial as referees cracked down on infringements.

Coaches would need to pick players to match the style.

"The All Blacks will have to change their game and play a little more football in the front fifty," he said. "Their set piece will need to be accurate, but I think they have the best scrum out of the three and that will allow them to get one-on-ones with the backs."

A more competitive battle at the tackle could also hinder Australia and potentially take away their greatest strength, halves Will Genia and Quade Cooper, Mitchell said.

"[Will] Genia is class, so momentum and breakdown will be key, but I think probably tighthead prop will be their area of concern selection-wise with depth. They have one, but I'm not sure they have two.

"Quade Cooper is a special footballer, certainly at Super Rugby level, but will he be able to dominate in the same vein at test level when the game is quite different?"

link - http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/5111755/All-Blacks-need-change-of-direction-John-Mitchell

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Post by PJHolybloke Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:03 pm

Hi Taylorman, I'm not so sure it's wise to preempt the breakdown at the RWC based on this years S14 competition. Given the preponderence of NH refs at the WC, you may find the second tackler gets penalised on a regular basis.

The breakdown has been reffed very well on the whole in the AP, Magners, HC and 6N competitions, and apart from some initial ping-pong in the odd game, kicking for territory seems far less common now than it was 2-3 years ago.

I haven't seen a great deal of S14 rugby so far this season, but up here you still get a lot of advantage by going forward with the ball into contact.

Maybe Mitchell's just stirring it up again?
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Post by welshy824 Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:07 pm

if this happens it will a blow to the game, after all everyone wants to see good exciting running rugby, not boring kick for territory type rugby- you can see this in how the NH teams are swapping with fly halfs, sexton runs, O'gara kicks, Flood runs, Wilko kicks etc

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Post by Taylorman Tue 07 Jun 2011, 9:57 pm

perhaps pj, just noticed over the last few s14 players kicking a lot more. Good territory and turnovers occurring.

Mind you, this might just be because theyre stuffed, and not wanting injuries- I don't know, but the matches arent the run fests they were earlier in the year and last year.

Perhaps the NH refs will make a difference. the 3N might be a better guage for us...

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Post by nganboy Wed 08 Jun 2011, 1:53 am

I'm sure there is a lot more kicking in the S15 this year.
Some pretty poor kicking by Cowan the other night gave a lot of ball back.
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Post by doctor_grey Wed 08 Jun 2011, 4:16 am

I am not sure Mitchell is right. Stormers are playing a more conservative game plan, and quite successfully too. But Reds are playing a wide open type game plan, and it is generally working for them. From what I have observed, I do not think the breakdown is being refereed differently than earlier this year, but I simply think teams such as Stormers are playing a game plan which suits the talents of their players. They probably see the new laws interpretations do not work for their team as well as others. So they play territory and defense. And kicking for territory is as old as the hills and will never go away. Some teams will do it more than others, regardless of how the breakdown is refereed.

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Post by Biltong Wed 08 Jun 2011, 6:57 am

You know, I often wonder about the opinions of informed and educated rugby minds.

It doesn't matter what the rules are, rugby teams will evolve and analyse new laws and find a way to play them in such a manner that they can get benefit from them.

NZ was running away with it last year as they immediately found a way to use the new breakdown laws.

It has taken other teams a little while longer to find an alternative solution.

As long as rugby union does not have a restart the same as rugby league at the tackle area ( and I hope it never does), teams will find ways to circumvent or play new laws.

Any team will try to outwit and outplay another team at the breakdown, no matter what laws become.
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Post by emack2 Wed 08 Jun 2011, 3:15 pm

Alovely bit of irony,Mitchell who with Deans and Carlos Spencer foisted the helter skelter game on us.Now calling for a Pragmatic kicking game,Carlos is with him as backs coach at Lions.As to defence and goal kicking in RWC`s thats the classic pattern for RWC.I expect more policing of Scrums and breakdown,and players like Pocock,McCaw[especially he`s now a marked man]Broussow will be heavily penalised.I hope they clamp down on offside,the so called blitz defence only works if the defenders are coming from offside positions.Reds maybe getting away with allout running game but they have had a lot more soft options in opponents than the top NZ or SA clubs.As to kicking it maybe in the case of Nz clubs because of injuries they have opted for it.Dan Carter can play that game better than most,if Slades fit so can he.Weepu may well be best back up FH,but he should already be there,Cruden is coming on but needs another year.Berquist is one of the better back up options.The 3Ns will be a chance to suss thing s out,give Stu Dickenson all the AB matches and they won`t win one.He`ll penalise them out of it

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