Dragons Season Thread 2017/18 - New Beginnings

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

Too early?!  Never mind.

So, big changes are afoot at Dave Parade.  There's been loads of arguments about the best way forward, the pros and cons of regional v club rugby, and I'm sure there'll be many more to come.  But what's done is done and, for now, we have a pro team at Dave Parade to support next year.  A few weeks ago even that was in jeopardy.  So moving forward...

Ownership:
So the WRU has taken over the reigns.  I'll add updates here as and when we know them, but the formal split from Newport RFC should mean 'cleaner' or more straightforward to understand revenue streams.  

Pitch:
A new one is being laid as we speak.  This original pitch has been part and parcel of the problems at RP for a number of years.  A BBC report showed it to be up there as the most used pitch pro pitch in the UK.  Something had to be done.  A fully synthetic pitch was mooted and preferred by some, a al Blues, Saracens, Glasgow, et al.  However, FA rules state that football clubs cannot play on these surfaces (probably since the AstroTurf days of Luton Town, etc.).  So it looks like a compromise has been agreed with a 4g semi-synthetic pitch, like those used by many football clubs, Swansea City/Ospreys, Millennium Stadium, Aviva Stadium, Twickenham, Murrayfield, Cardiff City stadium, etc.  A weave of synthetic fibres and real grass meaning it's easier to maintain, less prone to weather damage, but still sort of like the real thing.  This will be a real move forward and should improve the product on the field.  A bit.

Personnel:
New coach - Huw Jackman.  Comes with a good reputation for hard work and attacking rugby.  Good stuff.
Gavin Henson - I'm happy with this.  Despite his knockers, so to speak, he is still a classy club player and performed well in the English Prem with Bristol, when not injured.  Which is the crux of the issue.  Hopefully we can keep him fit for an extended run of games.
Zane Kirchner - On paper a quality player but as with a lot of good players, when they are in the twighlight of their careers and join a 'lesser' club more often than not they do not perform as expected.  Let's hope he is an exception to the rule.  Did Jackman and Kirchner play together at Leinster?


Transfers In:

Bernard 'No Pudding' Jackman - coach
Gavin Henson
Zane Kirchner

Transfers Out:
Shaun Knight
Nick Crosswell
Tom Prydie
Geraint Rhys Jones
Darren Harris
Craig Mitchell


New Badge:

[GavinDragon]

For us it will be the investment off the field first.

Having enough back office staff, both rugby and commercial, will make a massive difference.

Then I back our region to produce the players in the long term. The key for me is keeping on long term contracts:-

Griffiths
Amos
Hewitt
Leon Brown
Hill

[mikey_dragon]

We should also bring in Francis, Moriarty and Faletau .

[GavinDragon]

Without private investment, we can't afford any.

[Stone Motif]

Wow, things have moved on since I went on my hollibobs.

I'm sticking my colours to the mast and humbly suggesting 'plus ca change' might be a better thread sub-title than 'new beginnings'...

[Guest]

Wow, things have moved on since I went on my hollibobs.

I'm sticking my colours to the mast and humbly suggesting 'plus ca change' might be a better thread sub-title than 'new beginnings'...

I'm not changing the title now! I put a lot of work into that.

[Stone Motif]

Don't just yet - read Jackman is advocating we run everything in the Argus - whilst a refreshing change to Kingsley's genius play of get one of my progeny to kick it back to the team that are currently bumming us, I still think there is plenty of time and scope for 'a clusterfeck of biblical proportions' to make a valid appearance it the thread title before Christmas.

[PhilBB]

PhilBB I think your the only Welsh poster who believes there isn't a self imposed salary cap still.
Doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things anyway, things are certainly looking more positive for the Dragons since the WRU takeover.

I'm the only Welsh poster to be told by a Chief Executive of one of the four Welsh pro teams that there isn't a salary cap.

[PhilBB]

PhilBB I think your the only Welsh poster who believes there isn't a self imposed salary cap still.
Doesn't make a difference in the grand scheme of things anyway, things are certainly looking more positive for the Dragons since the WRU takeover.

And I guess you didn't click on the link above. Shame, really.

[marty2086]

Ah the old, someone told me so even though they have publically stated theres a cap they have secretly removed it and told only Phil

That's up there with the salary information being available at Companies House

[PhilBB]

Ah the old, someone told me so even though they have publically stated theres a cap they have secretly removed it and told only Phil

That's up there with the salary information being available at Companies House

There's a link to tell you that the cap has gone. A link from a journalist. I didn't write that the salary cap information was available at Companies House.

Other than all of that, you did well there. Typically well.

[marty2086]

Ah the old, someone told me so even though they have publically stated theres a cap they have secretly removed it and told only Phil

That's up there with the salary information being available at Companies House

There's a link to tell you that the cap has gone. A link from a journalist. I didn't write that the salary cap information was available at Companies House.

Other than all of that, you did well there. Typically well.

Nope it doesn't say that, it says it doesn't really exist anymore the reasoning being that Cardiff spent over £5m

The indication being that the Blues are pulling a Bath

[PhilBB]

Nope it doesn't say that, it says it doesn't really exist anymore the reasoning being that Cardiff spent over £5m

The indication being that the Blues are pulling a Bath

If they pulled a Bath they'd be called up on it. They aren't called up on it because it doesn't exist any longer.

[marty2086]

Nope it doesn't say that, it says it doesn't really exist anymore the reasoning being that Cardiff spent over £5m

The indication being that the Blues are pulling a Bath

If they pulled a Bath they'd be called up on it. They aren't called up on it because it doesn't exist any longer.

A bit like Bath were

[LordDowlais]

What has any of this got to do with Dragons ?

[marty2086]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

[LordDowlais]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

[marty2086]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

[marty2086]

One question on Dragons, will the loss of Newport from the name and ownership structure have an affect on the support?

Will some Newport diehards see it as a loss of their identity within the region the way some did in the initial setup?

[Guest]

One question on Dragons, will the loss of Newport from the name and ownership structure have an affect on the support?

Will some Newport diehards see it as a loss of their identity within the region the way some did in the initial setup?

To be honest Newport diehards, proper Newport diehards, never supported the Dragons in the first place. They continued to follow Newport RFC only from 2003 and refused to attend any regional games. I know a few of them. And that is entirely up to them, and they're free to do that obviously, so not a criticism of them. So in answer to the question the effect will be minimal IMO. What won't happen, IMO, is much more uptake from fans from around the region. I know plenty who attend and have done for a number of years from outside Newport and were happy to do so with Newport in the title. So, the title wasn't enough to put them off coming from places such as Cwmbran and Abertillery. They didn't support Newport before regional rugby and said they would stop coming if the Dragons were scrapped and Newport RFC were made one of the Pro12 sides. So you could deduce from that that they felt that it was a regional team regardless of the title. So I think we've got wider regional fans there already so I'm not sure that we'll really pick up many more from doing something as small as removing a word from the name and changing the logo.

[Guest]

Of course, people will cite the name as the reason for not attending. But now the name has changed you'll find a lot of people still not attending. They'll just find another excuse now instead.

[Stone Motif]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

[Guest]

Good point Stone. I feel they need to do a huge amount more. I'm sure ANY business that is not getting enough customers from simply walking in off the streets then needs to go to the customers and try to entice them in instead. It's just basic business/marketing. We seem to do very little.

[Stone Motif]

If this goes belly up the WRU will more or less have to admit regional rugby is a busted flush. Shame it may come at the cost of Newport's ground/existence. We'll see I spose...

[Cardiff Dave]

I heard that puddings are being removed from the menu

Will save the players a few quid I guess.

[Cardiff Dave]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Cardiff bloos will be able to help you on this matter of course.

[Cardiff Dave]

Wow, things have moved on since I went on my hollibobs.

I'm sticking my colours to the mast and humbly suggesting 'plus ca change' might be a better thread sub-title than 'new beginnings'...

I'm not changing the title now! I put a lot of work into that.

Just change the "18" to "?" or "tbc" mun. Simples.

[Cardiff Dave]

Yeah, another thread ruined by people from other clubs. Do one, you mongrels!

Ewe mischief-maker ewe.

[LordDowlais]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

[Kingshu]

I think that every team needs to be winning games to attract fans, Glasgow and Connacht both had big increases in crowds after winning the Pro 12.
While winning the Pro 12 may be a but beyond Dragons having a winning home record would help.
I can't see Dragons improving their place in the table much, but I can see Connacht, Edinburgh and Dragons winning more games than last year, making it a tougher and closer league. If Dragons can start winning more home games, and show green shoots for the future, it should make it easier to attract more to RP.

[Stone Motif]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

Brand the team in a way that they most identify with, for starters.

[Guest]

I think that every team needs to be winning games to attract fans, Glasgow and Connacht both had big increases in crowds after winning the Pro 12.
While winning the Pro 12 may be a but beyond Dragons having a winning home record would help.
I can't see Dragons improving their place in the table much, but I can see Connacht, Edinburgh and Dragons winning more games than last year, making it a tougher and closer league. If Dragons can start winning more home games, and show green shoots for the future, it should make it easier to attract more to RP.

Definitely agree with this. Putting on busses, giving away tickets, kids go free, 'family fun day', etc. - none of these work if no-one actually wants to go and see the team play. The best marketing for any company is the product itself. If we can get a team that wins more games, especially at home, then the atmosphere is better at games, people feel like they've had a good day out and more people will want to be part of that. I'm confident that if the Dragons had been winning more and finishing higher up the league, potentially even winning a league, since inception then we'd have no arguments about 'disenfranchised fans', 'not going because of Newport in the title', etc. Those excuses are all red herrings. People choose not to go, and have stopped going after a while, because watching a team play poorly and lose a lot is not an enjoyable experience. Even for the most diehard fans it eventually just grinds you down. Get a team winning (which I appreciate is easier said than done) and like I say the experience becomes better. With a good experience and a good night out THEN you can sell the corporate stuff as the businesses buying the corporate stuff know that it's good for their business taking people to a good experience, and the opposite is true taking people for a cr*p one. If the crowds swell because they're seeing good stuff and having a good time THEN you can do the half price tickets, kids go free, etc. to the games that are inevitably quieter because the opposition is not so good (e.g. Italian teams or AngloWelsh cup). But you have to make people interested in the first place.

[Kingshu]

Scarlets winning the League may also help, they should get increased crowds and more a more positive spin in the press, with more fans following Scarlets, and a positive spin on Welsh Rugby this may have a knock on effect for the other regions,

[LordDowlais]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

Brand the team in a way that they most identify with, for starters.

So, call them Newport RFC and be done with it then ?

[PhilBB]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

Nice work, Mr Liar.

And you don't seem to understand the difference between a salary floor and a salary cap.

[PhilBB]

Nope it doesn't say that, it says it doesn't really exist anymore the reasoning being that Cardiff spent over £5m

The indication being that the Blues are pulling a Bath

If they pulled a Bath they'd be called up on it. They aren't called up on it because it doesn't exist any longer.

A bit like Bath were

Erm, there was an investigation. Remember?

[PhilBB]

Well apparently the Dragons have been naughty boys for not reaching the salary floor whereas there is no longer a cap because Cardiff went over it

The Dragons could not afford the salary cap apparently. Why is that naughty ? Also, why do you even bother with Phill ? He is not to be trusted. He claims to be here there and everywhere, but all he does is sit in his bedsit writing blogs. I doubt he even goes to watch Cardiff. Half the time, the things he comes out with do not add up.

Right then, back to the Dragons.

It can be entertaining watching his unbalanced logic unfold

Yet you have never been able to score one point against it or show where it's unbalanced. Funny that. All whilst you couldn't even add up to 23.

[No 7&1/2]

Ah the investigation into bath and saracens. The results were being witheld ahead of the world cup in fear of it spoiling the media narrative. They should be coming out any day now.

[Stone Motif]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

Brand the team in a way that they most identify with, for starters.

So, call them Newport RFC and be done with it then ?

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

[PhilBB]

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

In a meeting of Newport RFC in August 2015, it was noted by the Directors that Dragons season ticket sales were 50% lower in 2014-15 than they were for Newport RFC pre "regional" rugby.

I think the stat was also something like 75% of the season tickets sold for the NGD were in Newport post codes.

[PhilBB]

Still, Martyn Phillips' logic extends only to commissioning a Two Circles survey (that is easy to manipulate) and that branding is not important.

It is quite obvious how the team should be called Gwent, but there we go, if the WRU are to be true to their rhetoric.

[Kingshu]

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

In a meeting of Newport RFC in August 2015, it was noted by the Directors that Dragons season ticket sales were 50% lower in 2014-15 than they were for Newport RFC pre "regional" rugby.

I think the stat was also something like 75% of the season tickets sold for the NGD were in Newport post codes.

The Dragons had finished no higher than 9th in the few years proceeding 14/15, I'd say that effects crowds,
whereas in 2000-2001 in the Welsh-Scottish League Newport finished 3rd 2001-2002 2nd, won the Welsh Prem in 2003–04,
I'd say if NGD were finished 2nd/3rd in the Pro 12 in 2012/2013 the season tickets sales would have been higher.

[Stone Motif]

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

In a meeting of Newport RFC in August 2015, it was noted by the Directors that Dragons season ticket sales were 50% lower in 2014-15 than they were for Newport RFC pre "regional" rugby.

I think the stat was also something like 75% of the season tickets sold for the NGD were in Newport post codes.

The Dragons had finished no higher than 9th in the few years proceeding 14/15, I'd say that effects crowds,
whereas in 2000-2001  in the Welsh-Scottish League Newport finished 3rd 2001-2002  2nd, won the Welsh Prem in 2003–04,
I'd say if NGD were finished 2nd/3rd in the Pro 12 in 2012/2013 the season tickets sales would have been higher.

I think you've missed the point there. Higher yes, more geographically dispersed? Hmm....

[Stone Motif]

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

In a meeting of Newport RFC in August 2015, it was noted by the Directors that Dragons season ticket sales were 50% lower in 2014-15 than they were for Newport RFC pre "regional" rugby.

I think the stat was also something like 75% of the season tickets sold for the NGD were in Newport post codes.

I recall being told. Certainly echoes my experience of going to watch Newport RFC, mostly alongside people from Cwmbran. You'd have never seen a Swansea shirt on a shopping trip to the Mecca of Torfaen back in the day.

[LordDowlais]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

Brand the team in a way that they most identify with, for starters.

So, call them Newport RFC and be done with it then ?

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

OK, so you would like the canvasing done in Newport then ? So other than not calling the team Newport, and not playing in black and amber, what would you suggest ? Free tickets for all members of rugby clubs in Newport ? Free transport ? You are the one saying that things should have been done differently but you do not even give any ideas.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

So much for new beginnings....

[LordDowlais]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ultimately, we have to make them want to stay, and the only way we can do that is by winning games. But if a player is good enough, he'll be tempted to leave eventually by a combination of better wages and the prospect of winning silverware.

[PhilBB]

The Dragons had finished no higher than 9th in the few years proceeding 14/15, I'd say that effects crowds,
whereas in 2000-2001  in the Welsh-Scottish League Newport finished 3rd 2001-2002  2nd, won the Welsh Prem in 2003–04,
I'd say if NGD were finished 2nd/3rd in the Pro 12 in 2012/2013 the season tickets sales would have been higher.

You're missing the point that, supposedly, the NGD were for a much larger market than Newport RFC were supposed to be able to draw from. Therefore, the loss of performance should have been equalled, if not outweighed, by the alleged larger catchment area.

The Welsh Premiership in 2003-4 wasn't a top flight competition.

[PhilBB]

Holding onto the promising young players and tying them down on long term contracts should be the first thing the WRU does with the region.

Why would any talented player tie themselves to a long term contract with a business whose new owner couldn't publicly guarantee a future for?

[Stone Motif]

I'd love to see the rationale behind breaking your back to get a bus full of people to travel from an hour away while you do sweet FA to entice any of the 150,000 people on your doorstep into the ground.

Genuine question, what would you suggest is done to entice more people from Newport to come and watch Dragons ?

Brand the team in a way that they most identify with, for starters.

So, call them Newport RFC and be done with it then ?

Is that what I said? I'd like to see some canvassing of the most local, densely populated and affluent section of their target market taking place, rather than a knee-jerk re-brand aimed at an as yet hypothetical 'regional' support base. What has been done is as ignorant and simplistic as your post above.

OK, so you would like the canvasing done in Newport then ? So other than not calling the team Newport, and not playing in black and amber, what would you suggest ? Free tickets for all members of rugby clubs in Newport ? Free transport ? You are the one saying that things should have been done differently but you do not even give any ideas.

When you started flogging carpets in Merthyr, did you stop and think maybe I'll stock my shagpile emporium with a number of budget options in a variety of shades of Gurnos estate brown, or did you buy in a load of cashmere numbers that no one in the vicinity has been able to afford since the days of the Iron Masters, but one or two punters in Cardiff might take a chance on?

It's called business planning, dufus. Any idiot can pluck random activities out of the air (retain all your young players!) as your alter-ego in the Fail demonstrates. But actions are based on understanding your target market in successful companies. Dave Parade Ltd do not understand their target market and the WRU are going down the same 'this time next year we'll be a proper region' route.

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