Wimbledon Day 8 (Tuesday)

CC crowd get an extra match today, where Djoko should beat Mannarino. It's women's quarters where I'm going for Konta, Ostapenko, Mug and Coco (or should that be a mug of cocoa?)
   Ostapenko seems quite oblivious to any UEs she commits and just goes for her shots and that could be the way to beat Venus. Konta has come through two tough three-setters against Vekic and Garcia and I think the home crowd will see her through against Halep who could well be scarred by her collapse in the French final.
   Kerber apparently was not best pleased to be on number two court yesterday. Second Monday is always a scheduling problem day for the organisers, with everyone left in due to play. You had the Big Four in contention yesterday (turned out one of them didn't even make it to court) so someone was going to miss out.
   Kerber's lost her number one position but Murray will hang on to his if he beats Querrey or if Djoko fails to win the tournament.

Novak already in control leading 3-0 but called for the doctor. However, Mannerino is already feeling his back/side. I cannot see this match being anything more than an hour and a half work-out for Novak - he may even end up pushing himself harder in a training session if he had not played today.

If Wimbledon can't inspire Djokovic to former recent glory nothing will.  It must come down to his fitness levels - which must be linked to how motivated he is in his training and preparation - and that is linked to his mental attitude.

John McEnroe compared Djokovic's precipitous fall to that of Tiger Woods - saying both were dominant in their sport and saying both their falls were due to "off-court issues with the family".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40524606

Are there any followers of Djokovic. Has anyone noticed any changes in who from his family watches him play? Federers wife watches Federer play, Murray's wife watches Murray Play, Nadal's girlfriend watches Nadal play ...

Djokovic wins the first set 6-2. Mannarino sticking to the task gamely but something tells me this is a straight sets win all the way for Novak.

No name Bertie wrote:If Wimbledon can't inspire Djokovic to former recent glory nothing will.  It must come down to his fitness levels - which must be linked to how motivated he is in his training and preparation - and that is linked to his mental attitude.

John McEnroe compared Djokovic's precipitous fall to that of Tiger Woods - saying both were dominant in their sport and saying both their falls were due to "off-court issues with the family".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/tennis/40524606

Too early yet to liken it to Tiger Woods. Woods has been off the stage as a major winner for nine years now whilst Novak's last slam win was little over a year ago.

Novak hasnt needed multiple back surgeries either

There literal potholes on this court atm

temporary21 wrote:Novak hasnt needed multiple back surgeries either

Also hasn't been involved in any crimes whereas Tiger has had a run-in.

The theory I have on Novak has been about hunger and desire since he won the French Open. He does seem to be re-finding form but is the hunger still there? If you watch Novak now in long rallies he grows far more impatient and goes for big shots to end long rallies and often misses whereas in days of old he'd be willing to grind it out and wait until the correct moment to go for broke. Is that a sign of boredom or lack of desire to play too long a rally as he used to?

I mean Tigers self inflicted problems are recoverable if unhelpful, but you cant come back if you cant swing without a lot of pain

So long as Novaks healthy, hes always one tourny away from where he was

Maybe hes just being more aggressive to compensate his age

Im seeing angry shouty Novak again though. Thats a good sign, none of this hippie s***.
Angry Novak is best Novak

temporary21 wrote:Maybe hes just being more aggressive to compensate his age

Im seeing angry shouty Novak again though. Thats a good sign, none of this hippie s***.
Angry Novak is best Novak

That is true. However, that capitulation V Thiem was a real eye-opener. It was a real rolling up of the white flag. So un-Novak like.

Yeah. That was rock bottom though 
That's often when ressurections happen though 

He's nothing to defend now and noones expecting him to beat Roger. So he can just play

This is not a high quality match. Djokovic is focusing on moving Mannarino around. There is depth in Djokovic's ground strokes but not much power. Djokovic just played a loose game to lose his break in the second set.

hes playing within himself though
ive barely seen roger or Cilic. So i cant compare him to the form horses

Djokovic seems to be bothered by the surface - small clumps of grass are coming off it. It is also causing irregular bounce.

I think it is fair to say that Novak and Andy give off the impression they are striving to find form and not comfortable with their game. Roger looks more comfortable and happier with his game and more assured.

With Murray it looks like he is just trying to overcome his hip issue. Though his movement appeared better against Paire than Fognini, when Murray was walking back to his chair between ends, his movement looked crooked - like he had a hip issue.

Djokovic just seems to lack intensity compared to when he was dominant.  He is more accurate than Mannarino and that is what seems to be the determinant factor in this match.

No name Bertie wrote:With Murray it looks like he is just trying to overcome his hip issue.  Though his movement appeared better against Paire than Fognini, when Murray was walking back to his chair between ends, his movement looked crooked - like he had a hip issue.

He's getting the job done but I get the impression that once he faces an on-form and all cylinders firing player he will find it difficult to compete as he is in passive mode just now. Cilic (if he gets through to meet the Croat) will feed on any passivity. Andy has to be more aggressive even if he isn't confident enough to be so or else he'll suffer a Dimitrov-esque defeat (a la the quarters at Wimbledon in 2014 I think it was).

I reckon there must be whole science behind the attempt to maintain a grass court surface. Maybe there could be more research into it.

Djokovic seems to have a shoulder or upper arm issue - that might be a reason for the apparent lack of power / intensity from his ground strokes.

That was a magnificent match between Konta and Halep with Konta coming through in three tight sets. Fabulous rallies, tension, nerves and drama. Well done Konta on reaching the semis at Wimbledon where she will now play Venus Williams.

Halep seemed to freeze in the second set tiebreak. But Konta played aggressively in the third, reeling off the winners. She's 3-2 in the H to H with Venus and can beat her in the semi. I think Mug will come thru in her semi.
   Djoko was very critical tonight of the decision NOT to move his match to Centre on Monday evening. Wimbledon have been blathering on about security and crowd movements. But surely they realised they made a poor decision.

Well, given a lot of the debate about sexist scheduling etc. which I don't really want to get into here, I thought the Konta-Halep match was a wonderful advert for the women's game, and for tennis in general. High quality ball striking from Konta especially, and remarkable defense from Halep. Konta-V. Williams is a pretty decent match-up, and they've had some pretty good matches in the past. Konta has dealt with the pressure of being the home favourite pretty well this year, and has come through some tricky matches against opponents playing excellent tennis.

Rybakova has also done her a favour by knocking out probably the two players who I'd have had as decent favourites against her on grass in Vanderweghe and Pliskova, both players who had the game to blow her off the court and not let her impose her own game. Williams can do that too of course, but maybe not quite to the same extent. First serves will be key for Konta, she's kept a really high percentage throughout the tournament and will need to in the semi.

For me personally - I can no longer listen to Johanna Konta's matches - this Wimbledon I have suddenly become aware of her whiny "painful" grunting.  This is something I haven't really noticed from her before.  I was watching her match with Garcia - and I started rooting for Garcia instead of my compatriot Konta - simply because Garcia was generally quiet.  I also found Garcia to be very stylish in her play.

In the QF between Johanna Konta and Halep - I switched on to catch part of the first set tie-breaker - but I had to switch off - Konta was producing her "pained" whiney grunt while Halep was producing an explosive "angry" grunt.

Most of the women remaining I personally find to be irritating grunters.

I think the reason why this grunting affects me more than others is that I naturally focus on the audio aspect of things (not just the visual) - and those grunts drown out everything.  I don't mind voiceless exertions (heavy breathing), low pitch moderate level voiced grunting linked to exertion - but everything else gets too much for me.  I also suffer from tinnitus - which means I tend to automatically filter out "noise" and focus on "voiced" articulations.

This Wimbledon I have found Nadal's grunting level to be louder - and it has surpassed a level that I can no longer listen to him comfortably - and I am sort of glad to see him lose or have become ambiguous in supporting him even though I like players like him that always give 100%.

Then turn the volume down I guess 
Or use a laptop with a volume mixer of some kind 

It's no louder than it's always been. Maybe wimbys sound mixing is different

Doesn't the roof when it's closed amplify sound? Might explain some of it. I think I read somewhere once that the actual volume of the men and women's grunting is roughly the same, but that it's the higher pitch of the women's which makes it more irritable to the (average) human ear.

I don't always get the chance to watch the game - so I listen to it - which also means I can do something else while I am listening to it.  If I am watching it I will turn the volume down - but as I say I also naturally focus on the audio aspect - I listen to the ball striking and the commentating - all that disappears if I have to cut the volume.  So the viewing experience is degraded and I end up doing something else.   This has stopped me paying much attention now to the women's game - I don't gain knowledge of the new players - and I lose the personal interest in the sport - except for the "patriotic aspect" of seeing a British player do well.  But with Jo Konta - I am beginning to lose interest.

If this happens in the men's game then I will stop watching tennis altogether.   That will be no loss to you and the others - but for me it will be a loss and I will find something else to do.

ps I have tinnitus and I think this also affects the way I perceive the sound.  So for instance I also find background music irritating when it is added to sports highlights - especially when it contains a beat to it.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well, given a lot of the debate about sexist scheduling etc. which I don't really want to get into here, I thought the Konta-Halep match was a wonderful advert for the women's game, and for tennis in general. High quality ball striking from Konta especially, and remarkable defense from Halep. Konta-V. Williams is a pretty decent match-up, and they've had some pretty good matches in the past. Konta has dealt with the pressure of being the home favourite pretty well this year, and has come through some tricky matches against opponents playing excellent tennis.

Rybakova has also done her a favour by knocking out probably the two players who I'd have had as decent favourites against her on grass in Vanderweghe and Pliskova, both players who had the game to blow her off the court and not let her impose her own game. Williams can do that too of course, but maybe not quite to the same extent. First serves will be key for Konta, she's kept a really high percentage throughout the tournament and will need to in the semi.

Well said. I generally prefer the men's game but Konta-Halep was good as you say.

I wasn't convinced that Konta was the favourite for Wimbledon but she keeps getting to the next round despite doing it the hard way.

Venus will probably start marginal favourite but she's not Serena!


Djokovic's match vs Mannarino should have been moved to Centre Court after Fed finished his but at least he's not got the toughest opponent.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well, given a lot of the debate about sexist scheduling etc. which I don't really want to get into here, I thought the Konta-Halep match was a wonderful advert for the women's game, and for tennis in general. High quality ball striking from Konta especially, and remarkable defense from Halep. Konta-V. Williams is a pretty decent match-up, and they've had some pretty good matches in the past. Konta has dealt with the pressure of being the home favourite pretty well this year, and has come through some tricky matches against opponents playing excellent tennis.

Rybakova has also done her a favour by knocking out probably the two players who I'd have had as decent favourites against her on grass in Vanderweghe and Pliskova, both players who had the game to blow her off the court and not let her impose her own game. Williams can do that too of course, but maybe not quite to the same extent. First serves will be key for Konta, she's kept a really high percentage throughout the tournament and will need to in the semi.

Only saw a bit of it but it was a terrific match. Konta was on top in most rallies but Halep's defence is superb. It does feel Halep needs to find something extra though as she's eventually been over-powered in successive slams now.

Konta starts favourite against Venus I think, albeit Venus looks in great form. Winner of that should then go on to take the title.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well, given a lot of the debate about sexist scheduling etc. which I don't really want to get into here, I thought the Konta-Halep match was a wonderful advert for the women's game, and for tennis in general. High quality ball striking from Konta especially, and remarkable defense from Halep. Konta-V. Williams is a pretty decent match-up, and they've had some pretty good matches in the past.i.

Yup - and apparently Muguruza v. Kerber was also (ironically) a fine match.

I can imagine that Konta v. Williams is going to be somewhat headache inducing. I remember watching Halep at RG and I noticed for the first time that she makes a particularly nasty noise when she hits the ball. It's such a shame.

Mad for Chelsea wrote:Well, given a lot of the debate about sexist scheduling etc. which I don't really want to get into here, I thought the Konta-Halep match was a wonderful advert for the women's game, and for tennis in general. High quality ball striking from Konta especially, and remarkable defense from Halep. Konta-V. Williams is a pretty decent match-up, and they've had some pretty good matches in the past. Konta has dealt with the pressure of being the home favourite pretty well this year, and has come through some tricky matches against opponents playing excellent tennis.

Rybakova has also done her a favour by knocking out probably the two players who I'd have had as decent favourites against her on grass in Vanderweghe and Pliskova, both players who had the game to blow her off the court and not let her impose her own game. Williams can do that too of course, but maybe not quite to the same extent. First serves will be key for Konta, she's kept a really high percentage throughout the tournament and will need to in the semi.

I agree on the Konta-Halep match. It was much better than that overrated Muller-Nadal match. I did not think Konta would win it, I had a fancy Halep would take the second set tiebreak. Konta is agressive, and did not really have a weak side, but even when she takes the lead in points, she sometimes bottles it trying to finish them off. Halep seems like an experienced match player, and her defence is indeed good, can just stay in points and if not turn the tide, at least allow her opponent a chance to make a mistake. But in the end, it wasn't quite enough.

The Guardian has done an article about the sexism at Wimbledon. No surprise there. https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jul/13/of-all-the-dumb-traditions-of-wimbledon-its-sexism-is-the-worst

It is true that Wimbledon is giving the public what they want, but the Guardian makes the point that "Saying it occurs because men’s matches are what the public wants to see is a self-perpetuating cycle. The public (either those at the event or at home watching on TV) see the men, and not the women, play and thus don’t even know who or what they are missing."

I expect Wimbledon will shift things very slightly next year in response to the criticism, but I think they have the balance about right.

Murray
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/shortcuts/2017/jul/11/andy-murray-the-feminist-that-tennis-needs
“I think ideally you would have two men’s and two women’s on Centre,” he said. It is the mildest possible egalitarian solution, asking no sacrifice from the male players, suggesting only “potentially starting the matches a bit earlier”.

Potentially, you could get more women's matches on show courts by having scheduled night matches, of course that would batter the show courts even more. I don't think the Guardian has quite made the connection between this story and players complaining about the courts this year.

Murray does it again

http://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40589164/andy-murray-corrects-journalist-s-casual-sexism

He doesn't look too happy with this journalist

Henman Bill: "I agree on the Konta-Halep match. It was much better than that overrated Muller-Nadal match."


Gosh, HB. You're a tough guy to please. The Muller-Nadal was, after all, only a five-set thriller, with the men's favourite coming back from two sets to love down, saving MPs all over the place and finally losing 15-13 in nearly five hours of drama.