Eddie Jones - Disaster waiting to happen?

First topic message reminder :

I was in Australia recently speaking to someone that knows him quite well. He predicted that Jones will at some point have a falling out with the RFU and everything will come crashing down sooner rather than later. His point was that this tends to be what happens with Jones and his fairly short tenure as head coach in each team of his long coaching career possibly backs this up.

Years            Team
1994             Randwick
1995–1996    Tokai University
1996             Japan Assistant
1997             Suntory sungoliath
1998–2001    Brumbies
2001–2005    Australia
2006             Saracens consultant
2007             Reds
2007             South Africa (Assistant)
2007–2009    Saracens
2009–2012    Suntory Sungoliath
2012–2015    Japan
2015–           England

I recall some newspapers had reservations over this very fact prior to his appointment with England.

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/nov/19/eddie-jones-england-head-coach-role

The question is will he be able to keep it all together through the RWC in 2019 or are England building towards a fall ala the 2015 RWC?

Gwlad wrote:Jones is an arrogant outsider who was parachuted into England after an humiliating RWC and exploited the good foundation laid by Bomber in a post RWC lull while the other home nations re built; he has only achieved anything of note while HC of the world's biggest and best resourced Union in terms of the over abundance of players and wedge. My guess is his hubris will catch up with him and NZ will win the next RWC leaving him out in the cold, again after the longest and latest fruitless, short tenures in International rugby.

Well if you consider taking Australia to the final, Japan to their best ever world cup and being on the coaching staff of South Africa when they won the tournament fruitless, then I am sure you are right.

Poor old Gatland can only dream of the fruitless times Eddie Jones has had at world cups!

Gatland has won silverware. Eddie has just ridden on the waves of other coaches and crashed off his own.

Gwlad wrote:Gatland has won silverware. Eddie has just ridden on the waves of other coaches and crashed off his own.

Eddie Jones has plenty of silverware to match Gatland.

Super Rugby and Tri Nations titles in Australia. Top League, Asia Five Nations and Pacific Nations titles in Japan.. Six Nations titles with England.

Gatland is simply a much better coach than Eddie on every level.

Gwlad wrote:Gatland is simply a much better coach than Eddie on every level.

Then why not argue your case, rather than making factual claims which are easily falsifiable?

My claims aren't false they're facts and disputing them with no proof is the forum equivalent of fake news.

Gwlad wrote:My claims aren't false they're facts and disputing them with no proof is the forum equivalent of fake news.

Your claim that Gatland has won silverware, while Jones has ridden on the efforts of others is demonstrably false. Your opinion that Gatland is a better coach than Jones may well be justifiable but not using that as a reason.

Rugby Fan wrote:

Gwlad wrote:My claims aren't false they're facts and disputing them with no proof is the forum equivalent of fake news.

You're claim that Gatland has won silverware, while Jones has ridden on the efforts of others is demonstrably false. Your opinion that Gatland is a better coach than Jones may well be justifiable but not using that as a reason.

Thanks glad you agree.

Gwlad.....what's happened to you?

You're a clever guy who knows his rugby and is obviously extremely patriotic. All you seem to do these days is post sniping remarks and look to wum. You used to be an engaging poster with some good insights into Welsh rugby, can we not get that guy back please?

Gwlad wrote:Thanks glad you agree.

I don't agree or disagree. I can see strengths and weaknesses in both coaches but I don't think you can say one is better unless, you make clear what circumstances you mean. I doubt Gatland would enjoy working in a Japanese system, for instance.

I was extremely wary of Jones as a coach of England, because he is dictatorial, and I thought he would quickly destroy some careers by selecting players, then quickly discarding them. As it is, the only player to suffer that fate so far has been Luther Burrell. I still have reservations about Jones' ability to develop players but he isn't with England for the long haul. That's also partly the job of other parts of the Engand rugby set-up.

My only main worry about Jones is him seemingly treating some players better than others.

Also as many of you know I am not a fan of the worst offenders in English rugby being England captain.

It sends out the message that you can be a bad role model and still get the highest honour.

Of course Jones - 2nd and 3rd choices probably wouldn't be who I would want either.


Gatland has done some good things but come on, his record vs SH sides outside the Lions is truly woeful.

He's never beaten a tri nations side in a RWC.


Gwlad are you not sick and tired of repeatedly losing to Australia? I would be if I was Welsh.

Australia aren't unbeatable yet you do really badly.

Of the 4 home nations - Wales are by far the worst vs the Aussies.

Sure Wales have a solid record vs 6 nations sides but Wales have not improved.



Jones did with Japan in 1 RWC what, Gatland hasn't in 2 RWCs, beat a tri nations side.

The problem may not be Jones but the Union style approach?

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Gwlad.....what's happened to you?

You're a clever guy who knows his rugby and is obviously extremely patriotic. All you seem to do these days is post sniping remarks and look to wum. You used to be an engaging poster with some good insights into Welsh rugby, can we not get that guy back please?

since its you and you asked so nicely what do you want to know?

England - injuries might work in their favor as they blood new guys but I still think that it is a double edged sword that Lancaster fell foul of...too many players and lack of consistency.Will win 6 Nations at a canter I expect

Scots- well for a team that has finally started to produce we've seen some disproportionate but actually heartwarming complaints about lack of representation in the Lions, means they are in fine fettle. Gregor could be the point of difference with some excellent young talent coming through.

ireland - stalled in my opinion but will produce an outstanding 6 Nations.

Wales - injury ravaged, politically inept regarding the 60 cap issue and apparently reinventing the wheel again two years out. No real candidate at 12 and certainly no Owen Farrell to to exploit the lessons learned v NZ.Some real strength in depth being developed mostly by necessity but ultimately we just dont have the world class players required, Liam Williams, AWJ, JD2, Faleatu and Webb aside.

And I still think Gavin Henson could do a job

Gwlad wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Gwlad.....what's happened to you?

You're a clever guy who knows his rugby and is obviously extremely patriotic. All you seem to do these days is post sniping remarks and look to wum. You used to be an engaging poster with some good insights into Welsh rugby, can we not get that guy back please?

since its you and you asked so nicely what do you want to know?

England - injuries might work in their favor as they blood new guys but I still think that it is a double edged sword that Lancaster fell foul of...too many players and lack of consistency.Will win 6 Nations at a canter I expect

Scots- well for a team that has finally started to produce we've seen some disproportionate but actually heartwarming complaints about lack of representation in the Lions, means they are in fine fettle. Gregor could be the point of difference with some excellent young talent coming through.

ireland - stalled in my opinion but will produce an outstanding 6 Nations.

Wales - injury ravaged, politically inept regarding the 60 cap issue and apparently reinventing the wheel again two years out. No real candidate at 12 and certainly no Owen Farrell to to exploit the lessons learned v NZ.Some real strength in depth being developed mostly by necessity but ultimately we just dont have the world class players required, Liam Williams, AWJ, JD2, Faleatu and Webb aside.

And I still think Gavin Henson could do a job

Well done - that wasn't so hard was it?

lostinwales wrote:

Gwlad wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Gwlad.....what's happened to you?

You're a clever guy who knows his rugby and is obviously extremely patriotic. All you seem to do these days is post sniping remarks and look to wum. You used to be an engaging poster with some good insights into Welsh rugby, can we not get that guy back please?

since its you and you asked so nicely what do you want to know?

England - injuries might work in their favor as they blood new guys but I still think that it is a double edged sword that Lancaster fell foul of...too many players and lack of consistency.Will win 6 Nations at a canter I expect

Scots- well for a team that has finally started to produce we've seen some disproportionate but actually heartwarming complaints about lack of representation in the Lions, means they are in fine fettle. Gregor could be the point of difference with some excellent young talent coming through.

ireland - stalled in my opinion but will produce an outstanding 6 Nations.

Wales - injury ravaged, politically inept regarding the 60 cap issue and apparently reinventing the wheel again two years out. No real candidate at 12 and certainly no Owen Farrell to to exploit the lessons learned v NZ.Some real strength in depth being developed mostly by necessity but ultimately we just dont have the world class players required, Liam Williams, AWJ, JD2, Faleatu and Webb aside.

And I still think Gavin Henson could do a job

Well done - that wasn't so hard was it?

oh bugger off

Gwlad's back!

I did have my reservations about EJ.

However, I think he's been a very good fit for us, and I think will continue to be up until the world cup.

England had lost their way, and had developed a real softness to the team. He's brought back that real physical edge again (and fitness), and the "arrogance" of latter years, by that I mean, this team is respectful, but at the same time the nicey nicey approach of Lancaster has been erased. This team wants to go out, be physical and win! Losing is not an option - its the Aussie / Kiwi mentality and one the 2003 era England team had. They'll break the rules to win if they need to.

I also think that's a lot to do with why Hartley was made Captain.

Hopefully, we can continue to develop some guile to go with that physicality and attitude that will give us a real chance at the World Cup.

It needs to be said , that Borthwick and Gustard are held in high esteem as well...and hopefully will take us further once EJ has gone.

Or maybe Baxter will be ready.