England vs Samoa - 25th November

First topic message reminder :

Details

Date: Saturday 25th November
Time: 14:30 GMT
Location: Twickenham Stadium, Twickenham, Surrey
TV: Sky Sports
Radio: R5L


Officials

Referee: Andrew Brace (Ireland)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Wayne Davies (Wales)
TMO: Simon McDowell (Ireland)



Head to Head

7 Played 7
7 Won 0
0 Drawn 0
244 Total Points 100
35 Average Score 14



Recent Form

22nd Nov 2014 Twickenham Eng 28 - Samoa 9
20th Nov 2010 Twickenham Eng 26 - Samoa 13


Teams

ENGLAND

England team to play Samoa

15 Mike Brown (Harlequins 63 caps), 14 Jonny May (Leicester Tigers 28 caps), 13 Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs 9 caps), 12 Alex Lozowski (Saracens 3 caps), 11 Elliot Daly (Wasps 15 caps), 10 George Ford (Leicester Tigers 39 caps) co-captain, 9 Danny Care (Harlequins 75 caps), 1 Ellis Genge (Leicester Tigers 4 caps), 2 Jamie George (Saracens 19 caps), 3 Dan Cole (Leicester Tigers 76 caps), 4 Joe Launchbury (Wasps 46 caps), 5 Charlie Ewels (Bath Rugby 5 caps), 6 Maro Itoje (Saracens 13 caps), 7 Chris Robshaw (Harlequins 58 caps) co-captain, 8 Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs 2 caps).

Finishers

16 Dylan Hartley (Northampton Saints 88 caps), 17 Joe Marler (Harlequins 52 caps), 18 Harry Williams (Exeter Chiefs 4 caps), 19 Nick Isiekwe (Saracens 1 cap), 20 Courtney Lawes (Northampton Saints 60 caps), 21 Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers 72 caps), 22 Piers Francis (Northampton Saints 2 caps), 23 Semesa Rokoduguni (Bath Rugby 3 caps).




Samoa


15-Ah See Tuala, 14-Paul Perez, 13-Kieron Fonotia, 12-Alapati Leiua, 11-David Lemi, 10-Tim Nanai-Williams, 9-Dwayne Polataivao, 8-Jack Lam, 7-TJ Ioane, 6-Piula Fa'asalele, 5-Chris Vui (captain), 4-Josh Tyrell, 3-Donald Brighouse, 2-Motu Matu´u, 1-Jordan Lay.

Replacements: 16-Manu Leiataua, 17-James Lay, 18-Hisa Sasagi, 19-Fa'atiga Lemalu, 20-Ofisa Treviranus, 21-Melani Matavao, 22-Reynold Lee-Lo, 23-JJ Taulagi

Oh well I guess we don't have that benchmark and no matter what we'll find george performed to optimum levels.

Poorfour wrote:

Sgt_Pooly wrote:Can't agree on Mako. The scrum as a whole hasn't been great, I don't think Mako is just to blame.

Outside of the struggling set piece, Mako has been largely very good. Big work rate, loads of tackles and some sublime handling.

We seem to have a habit in England at knocking players when they have a skill set outside of the norm for their position. Mako would be lauded in NZ.

We have a habit of knocking players when they can't do what we think is their primary job properly. Sometimes this is debatable (we over-rate big hits and carries in the back 5), but in the case of props the setpiece is pretty clearly the first priority. Mako is among the best front rows in the world at carrying and handling, but at international he's been exposed in the scrum fairly regularly.

Marler's not "lucky to be back". Of the international looseheads we've got, he's comfortably the best in the scrum and I would argue the best defensively. Genge might overtake him given time - but Genge is still very raw. His disciplinary record is also a lot better than people think it is - he pushes the boundaries and has had a number of warnings but his only recent bans have been the one just ended and the one for verbals with Samson Lee.

Nelson and Egypt springs to mind............

My main point is that MV looks tired and will be good for the rest. He is my first choice.

Marler is a curious character and owes the side as does Sinkler. Anyone choosing to remove themselves from selection cannot sensibly hold the expectation that they will return so easily. Competition is obviously, thankfully, very strong.

Tomorrow will be fun.

Marler has not had an easy time over the last year or so, including the death of his team mate and apprentice. Withdrawing from selection was the right thing to do at the time and I would expect it was respected by Eddie.

I imagine Marler opted out of selection with both eyes open. He'd know that his place would be taken by MV and would be tough to take back.

But as mentioned hes had a tough 18 months or so both on and off the field. Resting could have been the best choice.

Eddie’s first words to Marler in the 6 Nations training camp were reported as having been “See? I told you you’d be back!”

As a coach, you’d rather have a player opt to withdraw than go into a tour where their heart isn’t in it.

Nothing to do with last summer. I should have been clearer.

https://www.premiershiprugby.com/2017-2018/joe-marler-suspended-three-weeks/

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/oct/03/kyle-sinckler-seven-match-ban-making-contact-eye-harlequins-northampton-premiership-england-rugby

I don't think they chose to get suspended.

Yea I can't imagine it was planned

Not a forward pass...

Loz has started well, as has May.

Everytime I see Ewels, I wonder how he's in the England set-up, today is no different.

Slade is much better this week.

Without doubt, midfield is clicking well really. Loz is a real physical lad for his size, impressive

Too easy.

Our forwards really aren't doing well.

Don't think Farrell and Mako are doing great. Some players look dehydrated.

Shed load of changes means it's generally a sloppy affair.

Superb improvisation.

Scotland dishing it out to the Aussies.

Sigh. I assume that means they're winning. Was hoping to avoid the result.

Does Duty work for the BBC?

The scots have been superb.

Real threat with the ball in hand, so many great tries.

50 up WOW.

England have a lot of work to do to make that happen today

Says a lot about you.

Is George showing how amazing he is as a starter yet?

Heaf wrote:Does Duty work for the BBC?

I don't think Duty's politics fit in that well with the BBC. Tighthead does however appear to be auditioning for a beeb role...

This is a rugby site, of course other games will be discussed in real time.

carpet baboon wrote:Is George showing how amazing he is as a starter yet?

Played well.

Our forwards have protected the ball so badly though.

England making this harder than it should be.

Wonder why the Welsh all avoid you like the plague?

How about discussing the other games on the other threads as an idea?

Eddie will not be a happy with this. ..... Time and time again we f it up.

I honestly think our breakdown work has lagged behind most other countries for the best part of 15 years. We hit rucks slow, late and high, and it's been that way forever. Compare to Scotland, Ireland, NZ and Australia in particular and it's a little embarrassing.

We need to stop pretending this is an exhibition match and play some proper test rugby. Pretty sloppy so far.

Phew that's more like it.

Heaf wrote:How about discussing the other games on the other threads as an idea?

But it's not the 90s, watching a game on the mobile and watching a game in the bar is very easy to do.

Time to head of to the Wales game with all the security checks in place. Wouldn't want to miss the Haka.

We really need to improve a lot on these AIs.

Scrappy is not going to win us a World Cup. Far too many errors.

TJ Ioane has been immense in defence...great shift.

Knock on surely!

TightHEAD wrote:Knock on surely!

I thought so tbh.

Travesty!

Good job we are not Australian otherwise we'd never hear the end of it from our coach!!!!

TightHEAD wrote:

Heaf wrote:How about discussing the other games on the other threads as an idea?

But it's not the 90s, watching a game on the mobile and watching a game in the bar is very easy to do.

Time to head of to the Wales game with all the security checks in place. Wouldn't want to miss the Haka.

What's that got to do with not blurting out what's going on in other matches on other threads? Some people might want to watch a recording without knowing the result ...

My bad, not like I'm a pro BBC presenter but I didn't give the score away.

But to be honest if you want to avoid the result don't come on the Interweb. Full stop.

Remember Daly is not a winger! Lol

Well done Roko.

Not the best performance.

Pack disappointed, our ball retention at the breakdown was bordering poor at times. We looked a little underpowered against a strong Samoa pack. I think we're missing the carrying of the Vuinipola's and Hughes tbh and power around the fringes. of the players throwing their hat in:

George - went ok, didn't quite show enough to warrant starting ahead of Hartley imo.
Genge - Again ok. Scrum was decent against a not great Samoa outfit.
Ewels - Grew into the game but not in the same class as our other options.
Care - Struggled at times, seemed to drop about 3 chances.
Loz - Showed nice touches, need to see more.
Slade - Better at 13, another we need to see more of.

TightHEAD wrote:My bad, not like I'm a pro BBC presenter but I didn't give the score away.

But to be honest if you want to avoid the result don't come on the Interweb. Full stop.

I don't think it's unreasonable to discuss a live match on here on a thread specifically for it without people having to comment on other matches that have their own threads specifically for them ... full stop

Ford motm with simmonds picking up the fans version.

Well worse things happen at sea!

Plus the mobile version of this site is too small to see all the details of what thread you are in.

No biggy really. Best option is to avoid the Interweb.

Normally a good set of people on here but point taken when you're about!