Frampton vs Donaire

Former two division champion Carl Frampton will face much faded former four division(five if you count interim belts) champion Nonito Donaire in Belfast in April. Donaire has regressed massively since Rigondeaux embarrassed him and then Walters pancaked him. Frampton has stagnated since his bouts with Santa Cruz. Defeat for either man could spell retirement

Frampton has gone downhill as you have alluded to. He will probably scrape by on points, though I wouldn't be surprised with an upset.

I'm a Frampton fan and I reckon Donaire would of put a beating on him, if they where both at their very best!

Never been sold on Frampton, good but far from the best. Thats whats crap about boxing. Top 10 guys calling themselves 'World Chanpion'.

I can't really forgive Frampton for swerving Rigo tbh, it's something that's really bugged me lately as we see one of the great boxers of our generation probably bowing out without getting the recognition he deserves. (Plus i think Framps comes out of it looking good either way unless he got starched in a round)

As for Framps vs Donaire, bit of a meh fight to me and i used to enjoy watching Frampton go, i'll still tape it and watch it but it's no longer a must watch (or i'm getting really jaded in me old age :-)

Don't give this sucker no statue in Belfast. Give him guts

Selby told you he wasn't going away. You got your shot. Now give Lee his

Tell these folks why you've been ducking him. Politics, man! This country wants to keep Selby down. Keep everybody in Wales weak

They don't want a man like him to have the title because he's not a puppet like you

I'm telling you and everybody here. Selby will fight him anywhere, any time, for nothing

You see, Frampton don't fight no real man. He fights them set-ups

Carl, your family is doing real nice. You call yourself a fighter, prove it now

Give Lee the same chance. The way you been ducking him is a disgrace

I like how Frampton has went downhill based on one fight after a long period without a fight

The same was said after Gonzalez then he beat LSC

As for giving Selby his shot, the winner of this will face Selby or Warrington, it's not like the guy didn't go to the US twice to face LSC

One fight? He struggled past Gonzalez and lets be real! If Quigg had of bloody well started faster, he would probably of won their fight.

Frampton beat Santa Cruz in the first fight, though landed less total punches. Santa Cruz beat him convincingly in the rematch. Then Framps struggles with a relative unknown?

I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

The first fight was clearer on the scorecards than the second, LSC tried to hide behind and jab and Frampton was willing to take that off him in the first fight

If Frampton had have done X, Y or Z in the rematch he would have won so that negates your strawman Quigg argument

The first fight he struggled bad and the second, Santa Cruz CLEARLY out landed and worked him. Santa Cruz would certainly win the third.

Did you not predict McGregor to beat Floyd?

Struggled bad? Clearly out landed? There were less than 10 punches between them, and the number is irrelevant if you do nothing with them

What has McGregor/Mayweather got to do with you creating a strawman argument to dismiss someone?

The second fight he did clearly out land him. 230 punches to 133. That's a huge difference!

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

And? If you stand in front of someone they'll end up hitting you, he does it every fight, he did it in the first fight but sorted himself out to win it, he did it against Garcia because he loves those exchanges

For me its why he'll struggle under Jamie Moore because Shane McGuigan knew him and how he operated and was able to get him out of it on most occasions

Martinez is nothing special, Quigg is a good win, rather than a great win.

He did beat LSC, but lost comprehensively in a rematch. He is a very good fighter, just not a great one!

He loves those exchanges? Marty he was hit with 100 more punches. The fight was not close.

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

And don't forget that Rigo isn't a money fight, Frampton has made no secret of it being about earning money for him. He wants the big fights with the big money, Rigo isn't an exciting fighter or a guy who'll go out and sell the fight

AdamT wrote:He loves those exchanges? Marty he was hit with 100 more punches. The fight was not close.

And the majority of those were jabs, it's not like they were 100 punches putting him on his arse

The number doesn't mean he doesn't love standing and fighting, that's just another nonsensical argument from you

marty2086 wrote:

AdamT wrote:He loves those exchanges? Marty he was hit with 100 more punches. The fight was not close.

And the majority of those were jabs, it's not like they were 100 punches putting him on his arse

The number doesn't mean he doesn't love standing and fighting, that's just another nonsensical argument from you

So 100 more jabs landed don't count?

So is Framps all about the money then? Like Floyd?

Good boxer yes, Great boxer still to be determined. Had a good win against LSC but then looked outclassed in the 2nd bout, seemed to struggle to settle in his last fight and in my eyes needs a massive showing against Donaire (who did happen to face Rigo) to get his golden boy status back.

Still hold the Rigo fight against him, more than most probably as how you can go around stating your the future and best in the division then actually stating you'd avoid him just don't sit well with me

The smaller weight class guys naturally ‘age’ quicker. Frampton easily beat Quigg, how it was a SD was beyond ridiculous. The first fight with Santa Cruz, again was an exceptional performance by Frampton again away from home. Santa Cruz changed his tactics in the rematch and surprisingly Frampton looked short of ideas. Since then it’s started to slide for Frampton. The rubber match with Santa Cruz not happening seemed to hurt Frampton. Frampton needs a vintage performance against Donaire. If Frampton is at his best he beats Selby

Must win fight that’s what makes this fight compelling winner guaranteed a world title shot loser left with very few  if any options at all

Can’t believe all the criticism of Frampton. It wasn’t long ago he was being hailed as a superstar after he beat LSC and only lost the rematch by MD. I think he hugely deserves the benefit of the doubt for his last two performances. He had loads going on outside the ring with McGuigan and you could argue it’s hard to get motivated after 2 huge fights. Let’s see how he goes and would love to see him fight Selby. I’m not writing him off just yet.

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights expected him to.

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

Joshua a legitimate champion? Get off the sauce. He beat a bum like Charles Martin then picked up a couple of a vacant belts. In essence Joshua is a paper champion, only has a few belts because of Fury's meltdown

rodders wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

horizontalhero wrote:
My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

Fair point. Mine was that Frampton has taken tough fights and beaten good fighters, and in some cases on the road, which is more than can be said for a lot of British fighters, especially those in the match room camp.

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

When was Khan ever considered the man?

Other than Rigo who did Frampton not fight? He was pretty open on why he wouldn't fight him, there's no money in it. He's went after Russell and others last year too but they didn't happen

marty2086 wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

When was Khan ever considered the man?

Other than Rigo who did Frampton not fight? He was pretty open on why he wouldn't fight him, there's no money in it. He's went after Russell and others last year too but they didn't happen

When he unified the WBA and IBF titles and was awarded the Ring belt in May 2011. And regardless of fact that Frampton fought everyone else at Super Bantam, he was not The man, and ok yes apparently there wasn't any money in fighting Rigo (not that I believe that was the case) but there was the opportunity to secure the bragging rights of being the best, and Frampton chose not to pursue it.

horizontalhero wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

When was Khan ever considered the man?

Other than Rigo who did Frampton not fight? He was pretty open on why he wouldn't fight him, there's no money in it. He's went after Russell and others last year too but they didn't happen

When he unified the WBA and IBF titles and was awarded the Ring belt in May 2011. And regardless of fact that Frampton fought everyone else at Super Bantam, he was not The man, and ok yes apparently there wasn't any money in fighting Rigo (not that I believe that was the case) but there was the opportunity to secure the bragging rights of being the best, and Frampton chose not to pursue it.

So Rigo was the man then?

marty2086 wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

horizontalhero wrote:

rodders wrote:

AdamT wrote:
I like Frampton. I am a fan, but he has been terribly overrated, which I am guilty of more than most.

Can't agree with that, twice he's beat Martinez, beat Quigg in Manchester and then LSC in the states after stepping up in weight.

He's as legitimate a world champion as Britain has had and in my opinion already the best fighter to come out of Ireland.  

If people are going to hold avoiding Rigo against him then we can pretty much say the same about every British world champion in the past few decades - very few have been the genuine no1 in their division.

Come off it Rodders- much as Frampton is a good fighter, he not as legitimate a Champion as Fury, AJ, Khan , Hatton, or Haye were, who were all the top main their divisions (albeit very briefly in some cases) and whether it was him or the Mcguigans , it was pretty clear that he had no interest in facing Rigo to try and prove he was was the best Super bantam . I have to agree that he has been overrated - he certainly hasn't hit the heights  expected him to.  

I like Hatton but come on, he beat an over the hill and ring rusty Kosta Tzu in Manchester using rough house tactics and Paulie Mallinagie, who's best performance was getting hammered by Cotto.

Haye was no1 in a weak cruiser weight division but beat no one at Heavyweight. Khan I'll assume you are joking, he wouldn't even fight Kell Brook.

All these guys were bigger paper champions than Frampton.

Fury and AJ I'll give you but Frampton wins on the road against Quigg and LSC are more impressive than anything they have done, in my opinion.

My point Rodders, was that all the fighters I named -including Khan, were at one time or another considered "the man" in their division, and held the Ring belt, as well as one or more alphabet belt.

When was Khan ever considered the man?

Other than Rigo who did Frampton not fight? He was pretty open on why he wouldn't fight him, there's no money in it. He's went after Russell and others last year too but they didn't happen

When he unified the WBA and IBF titles and was awarded the Ring belt in May 2011. And regardless of fact that Frampton fought everyone else at Super Bantam, he was not The man, and ok yes apparently there wasn't any money in fighting Rigo (not that I believe that was the case) but there was the opportunity to secure the bragging rights of being the best, and Frampton chose not to pursue it.

So Rigo was the man then?

Yes, he was general regarded as the divisions top man after beating Donaire for the WBA & WBO titles.

Well then by that logic Frampton was the top man at FW after he beat LSC.

Think every man and his dog saw Rigo as the man, even boxers management noted how good he was and they'd actively swerve him

rodders wrote:Well then by that logic Frampton was the top man at FW after he beat LSC.

Frampton beat Kiko twice, Quigg and LSC he's not the man

Rigo beat Donaire and no one else but he's the man

But Frampton isn't the man because he didn't fight Rigo but Rigos still the man even though he didn't fight Frampton. It's strange logic

Not really Marty, Framps and his team come out and said they wouldn't face Rigo so did Quiggs. It was generally accepted by all and sundry that Rigo was the man at the weight. Of course now if you want to try and push Framps as the man you have to do some mental gymnastics to make it look like he didn't totally duck the Rigomeister

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:Well then by that logic Frampton was the top man at FW after he beat LSC.

Frampton beat Kiko twice, Quigg and LSC he's not the man

Rigo beat Donaire and no one else but he's the man

But Frampton isn't the man because he didn't fight Rigo but Rigos still the man even though he didn't fight Frampton. It's strange logic

Rigondeaux beat Donaire at 122lbs at the time when Donaire was general consensus top 5 p4p. Donaire was laying waste to everyone.

Martinez and Quigg ain't anywhere near Donaire let alone Rigondeaux.

Frampton is a good fighter but he cherrypicked his way up the ladder

Frampton himself readily admitted that he was never 'the man' at SBW as Rigo was until somebody beat him.

Although I'd be surprised if anyone copuld make a better claim to being top man at FW following the win over Santa Cruz

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Joshua a legitimate champion? Get off the sauce. He beat a bum like Charles Martin then picked up a couple of a vacant belts. In essence Joshua is a paper champion, only has a few belts because of Fury's meltdown

But Fury did have a melt down and therefore couldn't defend his titles , and so the title is up fire grabs (and had he not had his melt down he could well have been stripped for failing his drugs tests-either way he wouldn't able to box), and in the aftermath, AJ has picked up two belts and is widely respected as the best active fighter in the division. OK he didn't beat a linear champion, but whose fault is that?

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:
Frampton is a good fighter but he cherrypicked his way up the ladder

Frampton fought everyone but Rigo.

I don't deny they didn't want Rigo for a second, his CV his still better than nearly all the other British champions in recent years. If he wanted to cherry pick and easy route to a paper title he'd have stayed with matchroom, Frampton did it the hard way and deserves far more respect than he gets.

It's no different to Benn and Eubank wanting nothing to do with RJJ or Froch pretending Ward didn't exist in the latter part of his career. Every fighter cherry picks fights with the most reward and least risk.

To be fair to Benn, RJJ was only a super middle from end of 1994 (Nov) for 7 fights before he moved to light heavy.

It's not like RJJ was so dominant at the weight and had been chasing the fight, he seemed happy to get his belt and move up for another.

In the time they were at the same weight Benn fought 3 fights, the first against McClellan before he lost himself.

huw wrote:To be fair to Benn, RJJ was only a super middle from end of 1994 (Nov) for 7 fights before he moved to light heavy.

It's not like RJJ was so dominant at the weight and had been chasing the fight, he seemed happy to get his belt and move up for another.

In the time they were at the same weight Benn fought 3 fights, the first against McClellan before he lost himself.

I recall Benn wanted to fight RJJ, after the McClellan fight, but as for Eubank, I'm pretty sure that he wanted no part of it.

horizontalhero wrote:

I recall Benn wanted to fight RJJ, after the McClellan fight, but as for Eubank, I'm pretty sure that he wanted no part of it.

He probably remembered sparring with Herol 'Bomber' Graham and didn't want to be swinging at air all night....