6N 2018: Scotland v France, 11th February

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SCOTLAND v FRANCE
11 February 2018
KO: 15:00 GMT
BT Murrayfield, Edinburgh

Live on [BBC Jockland]

Referee: John Lacey (Ireland)
Assistant 1: Nigel Owens (Wales)
Assistant 2: Paul Williams (New Zealand)
TMO: Rowan Kitt (England)

A. Head to Head

91 Played 91
35 Won 53
3 Drawn 3
53 Lost 35
1,118 Points 1,302

B. Recent Form

8 March 2014
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
17 – 19 to France

7 February 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
15 – 8 to France

5 September 2015
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
19 – 16 to France

13 March 2016
Murrayfield, Edinburgh
29 – 18 to Scotland

12 February 2017
Stade de France, Saint-Denis
22 – 16 to France

C. Teams

SCOTLAND 

Stuart Hogg, Tommy Seymour, Huw Jones, Peter Horne (all Glasgow), Sean Maitland (Saracens), Finn Russell (Glasgow), Greig Laidlaw (Clermont Auvergne); Gordon Reid (London Irish), Stuart McInally, Simon Berghan, Grant Gilchrist (all Edinburgh), Jonny Gray (Glasgow), John Barclay (Scarlets, capt), Hamish Watson (Edinburgh), Ryan Wilson (Glasgow).

Replacements: Scott Lawson (Newcastle), Jamie Bhatti (Glasgow), Jon Welsh (Newcastle), Ben Toolis (Edinburgh), Dave Denton (Worcester), Ali Price (Glasgow), Chris Harris (Newcastle), Blair Kinghorn (Edinburgh).

FRANCE


Palis; Thomas, Doumayrou, Lamerat, Vakatawa; Beauxis, Machenaud; Poirot, Guirado, Slimani, Itturia, Vahaamahina , Lauret , Tauleigne.

Replacements: Pelissie, Ben Arous, Gomes Sa, Gabrillagues, Serin, Belleau, Fall.

***


What is worse? Getting utterly thrashed by a rampant Welsh team away from home, when everyone (except the Welsh clearly) saw Scotland as the up and coming team about to do great things in this tournament; or to lose a game with a drop goal on the last kick of the game to an Irish team who had just kept the ball for 31 phases!

Answers on a postcard please!

The truth is neither scenario is a good one and it is hard to guess how they will play on the minds of the respective teams over the coming week.

The good thing is that in the 6N, redemption is potentially only a game away and both teams have another chance at it this coming weekend.

Both teams look like they will have to make significant changes, France due to injury and Scotland because they were so cr*p yesterday. How that will pan out on the game is anyone's guess.

I am not however expecting to hear to many optimistic noises coming from the Scotland camp or their fans and media this week. Let us go back to being the underdogs, it seems to be the only mindset that can get us to play well!

sensisball wrote:Berghan starting is plain nonsense. He hasn't played for a month and is a poor scrummager to boot.
You  want to give the French some confidence away from home? Simply pick a weak scrummaging unit so they can get a few easy penalties and  points.

Why doesn't he go the whole hog and drop Welsh completely? He might as well since unless there is an injury or Berghan gets binned he will give him minimal game time. The only facet of Scotland's play that was competitive against Wales was the scrum and this is how Welsh is rewarded? totally, totally bizarre decision.

Welsh (and Reid for that matter) were totally anonymous in the loose last weekend, Toonie clearly wants a big ball carrier in the team. Berghan put's himself about in the loose a fair bit and isn't that bad in the scrum. He's never going to be first choice TH, but he's an able deputy for Nel & Fagerson and will carry the ball.

I wouldn't have been upset had Welsh started, but I can understand the rationale for Berghan coming back into the starting 15.

Slimani is probably the best scrummaging tight head in European rugby and will put massive pressure on Reid which means you cannot afford to pick less than your best scrummaging tight head.

In some ways I am quite glad to see Berghan get picked so we can see how he goes at home with the starting pack and so he has no hiding place when it goes t*ts up at scrum time.

Poirot is not only great in the loose he is also an excellent scrummager. Tadhg Furlong, the Lions starting 3, found it hard to get any edge over him last week. As for Berghan being a big ball carrier. Well he is big but I wouldn't describe him as a big ball carrier.
Maybe a month of no live rugby will have transformed him into an international class prop. I guess we will find out on Sunday.

It will be a pretty attritious game in the front row and the bench options for France are only going to weaken them marginally. I imagine that all the props will get a decent amount of game time in this match and all against decent opposition, so who starts and who benches may be more of a moot point than might otherwise have been.

Slimani has been in referees’s sights for a while now. They always find a way to warn him and he often even gets penalised. Most of the time it is not his fault (maybe he is just too small) but he seems to carry a bad reputation now and also never really adapts. On that basis despite his qualities he can’t be considered as the best TH around. Won’t be surprised if France gets pinged at scrum despite Scotland playing a couple of nobodies in the front row. Scrums are not as important as they used to be specially given refs encourages team to play on and do not award penalties as easily anymore.

Ryan Wilson back to get steam rolled over by Picamoles. Ouch!

Harsh dropping Welsh as the scrum held well last weekend despite our worries and he was by far not the worst player we had that day.

What worries me most though is Horne at 12. Horne's biggest weakness has been his defending and whacking him out there with Jones who some say is suspect seems odd. It also makes for a very lightweight midfield and France are going to send their big brutes down that channel all day long which could hurt us!

tigertattie wrote:Ryan Wilson back to get steam rolled over by Picamoles. Ouch!

Harsh dropping Welsh as the scrum held well last weekend despite our worries and he was by far not the worst player we had that day.

What worries me most though is Horne at 12. Horne's biggest weakness has been his defending and whacking him out there with Jones who some say is suspect seems odd. It also makes for a very lightweight midfield and France are going to send their big brutes down that channel all day long which could hurt us!

Lets be fair, he was more effective than CDP when he came on - he carried the ball straight and even got over the gainline! Madness!

Yeh harsh on Welsh and if he's been dropped for his loose play thats really harsh as the loose play across the entire team was non-existant

BigGee wrote:Injuries really have disrupted Dunbar's career. He seems to struggle to ever put more than a game or two together.

I am actually ok with Horne at 12. He is a lot better defensively than he is given credit for and it seems to bring the best out of Finn, having another play maker outside of him. I don't think we were ever going to win this game by battering our way through the French 12 channel.

Horne is definitely a better solution at 12 than playing Huw Jones there. I am not sure that will be an experiment tried again.

Reminds me of Ben Cairns career - though at least Dunbar has had a few caps to his name. I'm not sure how sustainable it'll be past 2019 WC which is a shame but with increasing competition it's getting harder to win back places.

Same with Scott, though not quite as severe.

that midfield looks really squishy.

Townsend was really taken to the cleaners last weekend: he is the only scapegoat for that performance.
He didn't have a plan B, he obviously allowed a sense of complacency, and some of his selections were just poor.

Should Scotland lose again, he'll be the one in the firing line. He's under an inhuman amount of pressure.

furra_linee wrote:Townsend was really taken to the cleaners last weekend: he is the only scapegoat for that performance.
He didn't have a plan B, he obviously allowed a sense of complacency, and some of his selections were just poor.

Should Scotland lose again, he'll be the one in the firing line. He's under an inhuman amount of pressure.

pffffft it's his first shot at being head coach during the six nations, he backed players on form - Harris + welsh for newcastle, mcguigan for sale, russell and price for glasgow etc - it's hardly his fault they knocked on, line out fell apart, defense disappeared, russell kept shooting out the line narrowing the defense leaving gaps everywhere etc

Toonie has done so much for Scottish rugby - if you got rid of him which proven successful coach would step up? Cockerill who got booted from tigers and has never coach in the 6 Nations or Rennie who's glasgow side lost almost all of their euro games and has never coached in the 6 Nations?

Talking about pressure on the head coach is definitely premature, where was your call for sacking when we put 50 past australia and were one pass away from beating the ABs?

Tramptastic wrote:

furra_linee wrote:Townsend was really taken to the cleaners last weekend: he is the only scapegoat for that performance.
He didn't have a plan B, he obviously allowed a sense of complacency, and some of his selections were just poor.

Should Scotland lose again, he'll be the one in the firing line. He's under an inhuman amount of pressure.

pffffft it's his first shot at being head coach during the six nations, he backed players on form - Harris + welsh for newcastle, mcguigan for sale, russell and price for glasgow etc - it's hardly his fault they knocked on, line out fell apart, defense disappeared, russell kept shooting out the line narrowing the defense leaving gaps everywhere etc

Toonie has done so much for Scottish rugby - if you got rid of him which proven successful coach would step up? Cockerill who got booted from tigers and has never coach in the 6 Nations or Rennie who's glasgow side lost almost all of their euro games and has never coached in the 6 Nations?

Talking about pressure on the head coach is definitely premature, where was your call for sacking when we put 50 past australia and were one pass away from beating the ABs?

The players are under more pressure than the coach. It wasn't how we tried to play in Wales that saw us get hosed, it was the execution, and mental fragility.

Had Johnny G scored in the opening 2 minutes I reckon the Welsh team would have had a similar collapse, a bunch of youngsters, not much caps between them 7 points down inside the first minute, IFs and BUTs I know, but these are the small margins we are talking about.

Lots of pundits are wetting themselves about Gatland's defence nulifying Scotland's attack. This is way too simplified. Our attack was easy to nulify because our error count was astronomical. Ally Price cost us 14 points in the first half, the blame is squarely at his door and he has been rightly benched.

Toonie is under pressure, but the players moreso because they let him down badly. Not just because of the errors but because how quickly they fell apart.

tigertattie wrote:Ryan Wilson back to get steam rolled over by Picamoles. Ouch!

Harsh dropping Welsh as the scrum held well last weekend despite our worries and he was by far not the worst player we had that day.

What worries me most though is Horne at 12. Horne's biggest weakness has been his defending and whacking him out there with Jones who some say is suspect seems odd. It also makes for a very lightweight midfield and France are going to send their big brutes down that channel all day long which could hurt us!

Of course if the rugby gods are cruel to us we might be forced into playing a large part of the game with a midfield of;

9. Aldi Price
10. Frodo
12 Furra Linee
13 Harris (The Man With No nick Name)

What - not even 'Bomber' ????

21st Century Schizoid Man wrote:What - not even 'Bomber' ????

After his performance last week I was considering "Whispering Bob".

Yes well he did 'bomb' spectacularly.

I always thought Chris Harris was a Top Gear presenter

Excellent team in my opinion, I would have actually picked the exact same side although possibly Dunbar or Taylor on bench if they were fit.

Gilchrist deserves a start so I am very happy to see him on the starting XV. He's a big physical ball carrier and will add a little extra to the pack.

Wilson adds a bit more doggedness to the breakdown and has great hands, Denton in reserve is also great as he will carry well and take it to the French when he comes on.

Laidlaw starting is the right idea. He will control the attack nicely and have the occasional snipe which will hopefully gain Scotland some penalties and a few try's. Price can come on later and hopefully Scotland can open things up a bit more with his pace.

I am a big fan of Horne at 12, I think when he plays there alongside Russell more interesting plays in attack happen. He has a good rugby brain which makes up for his size and occasional lapses in defence.

I'm really excited by this selection and just hope the error count is far far lower this Sunday. Alos hope they continue to play in a positive way because 2017 was an incredible year despite one bad defeat to England. Hopefully the Wales loss is that one bad defeat for 2018.

Again, we're going to need to score points early as that French side is going to bludgeon us into submission come full time so we better be well up before our players start to give up the ghost!

However, I think this was part of the problem last week. We needed early scores and went hell for leather at the start like headless chickens which put us on the path to ruin

I’m still a bit concerned by Horne starting.

He was only on the pitch 25 mins against Wales, he attempted 5 tackles and missed 3 of them. I know stats can be misleading as he might have been covering someone else’s man, but it’s not a great record. I fear the French are going to try and exploit his relative weakness in this area.

However, I realise due to injuries there aren’t many options available, but it’s still a concern.

FRANCE: Palis - Thomas, Lamerat, Doumayrou, Vakatawa - (o) Beauxis, (m) Machenaud - Tauleigne, Camara, Lauret - Vahaamahina, Iturria - Slimani, Guirado (cape), Poirot

Thoughts on the team whocares? Is Beauxis really your 2nd top choice at flyhalf??

Right now with Lopez having a long term injury and the like of Trin Duc, Plisson being really average, I think Beauxis is unfortunately the best we have. At least he’s having a good season so far but don’t expect any fireworks from him specially with Machenaud inside. Brunel going for more play making options with Doumayrou and Tauleigne coming in...

How physical is your backline? With Horne at 12 we have a lightweight player in defence - he'll always go for the tackle but often a good big bloke will beat a good little bloke!

Doumayrou isn't the biggest inside centre France could have chosen (6ft1 and 92 kg) but he is very quick into his running and steps well. He also is pretty robust in contact.
Lamerat at 13  is a superb defender (remember him putting Billy V on his backside last season) and a bigger specimen weighing in around 105kg.
Beauxis rarely plays well in the blue of France but since his move to Lyon he has been rejuvenated. Playing behind a good pack he has guided an exciting backline to some big wins early in the season. However Lyon's form has dipped considerably over the last couple of months so not sure how well he is playing just now. Belleau is an exciting prospect but his way form for Toulon has been mixed. Some great stuff like the stabbed kick and regather for a great try against Bath at the rec but also missing a fair few easy kicks (like last week's howler near the end which would have sealed victory). Lopez would probably have been the starting 10 if he was available.

Yes Lopez I heads and shoulder above the rest of French 10s. Says a lot about the general quality of French Fly Halves!

Hope Scotland back 3 are up for a bit of running because Beauxis will certainly use his big boot.

RDW_Scotland wrote:How physical is your backline? With Horne at 12 we have a lightweight player in defence - he'll always go for the tackle but often a good big bloke will beat a good little bloke!

Not the first player Alesana did this too, but a prime example of your point I guess.

whocares wrote:Hope Scotland back 3 are up for a bit of running because Beauxis will certainly use his big boot.

If they kick, they had better be good kicks or have an excellent chase (which the Welsh did very well) as the Scotland back three will be very happy to run it back at them.

This could actually be a potent attacking strike for us. Hoggy was very frustrated in the Wales game that he could get no traction on this front. The Welsh had done their homework. Do you think the French have been as diligent?

BigGee wrote:

whocares wrote:Hope Scotland back 3 are up for a bit of running because Beauxis will certainly use his big boot.

If they kick, they had better be good kicks or have an excellent chase (which the Welsh did very well) as the Scotland back three will be very happy to run it back at them.

This could actually be a potent attacking strike for us. Hoggy was very frustrated in the Wales game that he could get no traction on this front. The Welsh had done their homework. Do you think the French have been as diligent?

I might be wrong but I thought the welsh were very savvy in that they only kicked to the back three when one of scotlands wingers had pushed up in to the defensive line so hogg was covering the touchline kick - meant he always had to pass it infield to a far less potent counter attacker (mcguigan or seymour to a lesser extent). This was a smart tactic by gatland as he knows hogg running deep from a central position is far more dangerous than, say, hogg passing it to mcguigan who runs straight in to traffic

Let's be honest...
most of us running deep (and I use the verb in it's most generous application) from a central position are more dangerous than Barry McGuigan running into traffic.

Scotland will stick to the "keep the ball in play, high tempo, back your skills" philosophy that Toonie espouses. If Aldi Price had controlled play after Jonny Gray's break in the second minute instead of getting white line fever, becoming isolated and giving way a penalty the game would have been very different. If Wilson, Barclay and Watson can control the breakdown the way the Irish did to set up the winning score we can run the French off the pack. The risk with Toonie's game plan is if we fall behind early we can end up taking too many risks and getting picked off.

Believe

http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/02/09/auld-alliance-trophy-unveiled

Scotland and France will be playing for a trophy this year and henceforth.

The Auld Alliance trophy, in remembrance of the two captains of the last game prior to the great war, both of whom perished in it, along with many other internationalists.

A nice touch on the centenary of the end of the war, well done to both federations.

The cup will be shown to the crowd prior to the match by two young relatives of the dead captains, keeping their spirit going.

jimbopip wrote:Let's be honest...
most of us running deep (and I use the verb in it's most generous application) from a central position are more dangerous than Barry McGuigan running into traffic.

Scotland will stick to the "keep the ball in play, high tempo, back your skills" philosophy that Toonie espouses. If Aldi Price had controlled play after Jonny Gray's break in the second minute instead of getting white line fever, becoming isolated and giving way a penalty the game would have been very different. If Wilson, Barclay and Watson can control the breakdown the way  the Irish did to set up the winning score we can run the French off the pack. The risk with Toonie's game plan is if we fall behind early we can end up taking too many risks and getting picked off.

Believe  

That break and hand off by Jonny Gray was phenomenal, more of that for this game I hope!

bsando wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Let's be honest...
most of us running deep (and I use the verb in it's most generous application) from a central position are more dangerous than Barry McGuigan running into traffic.

Scotland will stick to the "keep the ball in play, high tempo, back your skills" philosophy that Toonie espouses. If Aldi Price had controlled play after Jonny Gray's break in the second minute instead of getting white line fever, becoming isolated and giving way a penalty the game would have been very different. If Wilson, Barclay and Watson can control the breakdown the way  the Irish did to set up the winning score we can run the French off the pack. The risk with Toonie's game plan is if we fall behind early we can end up taking too many risks and getting picked off.

Believe  

That break and hand off by Jonny Gray was phenomenal, more of that for this game I hope!

Dinnae man, I was on my feet and shouting like a feckin eejit (scared the crap out of the dug)

All he needed was to pump his legs a few more times and he was over (or if he had someone on his shoulder with a bit composure)

Its in the past now, and in the past it must remain, but I reckon if he'd gone over the match would have ended up far far different.

tigertattie wrote:

bsando wrote:

jimbopip wrote:Let's be honest...
most of us running deep (and I use the verb in it's most generous application) from a central position are more dangerous than Barry McGuigan running into traffic.

Scotland will stick to the "keep the ball in play, high tempo, back your skills" philosophy that Toonie espouses. If Aldi Price had controlled play after Jonny Gray's break in the second minute instead of getting white line fever, becoming isolated and giving way a penalty the game would have been very different. If Wilson, Barclay and Watson can control the breakdown the way  the Irish did to set up the winning score we can run the French off the pack. The risk with Toonie's game plan is if we fall behind early we can end up taking too many risks and getting picked off.

Believe  

That break and hand off by Jonny Gray was phenomenal, more of that for this game I hope!

Dinnae man, I was on my feet and shouting like a feckin eejit (scared the crap out of the dug)

All he needed was to pump his legs a few more times and he was over (or if he had someone on his shoulder with a bit composure)

Its in the past now, and in the past it must remain, but I reckon if he'd gone over the match would have ended up far far different.

Like a what?

That Jonny Gray break - how slow is he tho? Looked like a carthorse v a racehorse

Is it not that he only looks slow? Like a giraffe a galloping...looks like slow motion but at top speed is faster than a horse.

giraffe v racehorse?

No I think he is genuinely slow. . Ok it was a back who caught him but IIRC he was caught having got 5 m clear in about 15 m

Tramptastic wrote:

furra_linee wrote:Townsend was really taken to the cleaners last weekend: he is the only scapegoat for that performance.
He didn't have a plan B, he obviously allowed a sense of complacency, and some of his selections were just poor.

Should Scotland lose again, he'll be the one in the firing line. He's under an inhuman amount of pressure.

pffffft it's his first shot at being head coach during the six nations, he backed players on form - Harris + welsh for newcastle, mcguigan for sale, russell and price for glasgow etc - it's hardly his fault they knocked on, line out fell apart, defense disappeared, russell kept shooting out the line narrowing the defense leaving gaps everywhere etc

Toonie has done so much for Scottish rugby - if you got rid of him which proven successful coach would step up? Cockerill who got booted from tigers and has never coach in the 6 Nations or Rennie who's glasgow side lost almost all of their euro games and has never coached in the 6 Nations?

Talking about pressure on the head coach is definitely premature, where was your call for sacking when we put 50 past australia and were one pass away from beating the ABs?

Its the sense of hype / complacency / mental fragility that I picked up on that Toonie should have tackled. There were so many errors because their heads weren't in the game, because they weren't focussed. That, especially since it came from all corners of the team, can be laid at the coaches door.
And it's great that Scotland did well in the Autumn, but then two things. 1) Wales always do badly then, and still always beat us in the Spring and 2) its just like Scotland to let a couple of good performances go to their heads.
No ones saying that Townsend should literally be fired. But, mental preparedness / consistency is not something he is renowed for, and is something that he should he held accountable for.
Still think we'll win like.

Highlights of yesterday France U20 game in Scotland against a team that was apparently playing tag rugby...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MT6SBj02z9w

whocares wrote:Highlights of yesterday France U20 game in Scotland against a team that was apparently playing tag rugby...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MT6SBj02z9w

It is a very young under 20s team this year - most have just left school and I don't think any of them have pro rugby experience.

Could be a long 6N for these guys but they'll learn a lot from it.

Watching the England game - one key differentiator from Scotland last week. The agression and energy is truly immense. Our boys could do well to rouse themselves more, I think it'd go hand in hand with accuracy

I'm awake at 4am about to get ready and set off from market harbourough for my first Murrayfield game. Meeting up with Graeme's Beveridge before for a beer... Assuming I can stay awake.

Faint nausea, slightly farty, optimistic for no particular reason.

It must be a 6 Nations game day.

Morrison write a piece in the Hootsmon describing Scotland as rugby's equivalent of the Inbetweeners. Hard to argue with that.

George Carlin wrote:Faint nausea, slightly farty, optimistic for no particular reason.

It must be a 6 Nations game day.

Morrison write a piece in the Hootsmon describing Scotland as rugby's equivalent of the Inbetweeners. Hard to argue with that.

Is that not just old age?

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Faint nausea, slightly farty, optimistic for no particular reason.

It must be a 6 Nations game day.

Morrison write a piece in the Hootsmon describing Scotland as rugby's equivalent of the Inbetweeners. Hard to argue with that.

Is that not just old age?

Can't be because I'm feeling the same way.
The Inbetweeners? Are they a popular music beat combo?
You know, there was a day when a review of Scotland's attacking play could have been cut and pasted from the Waiting For Godot premiere, "Nobody comes. Nobody goes. Nothing happens. It's dreadful." Now it's like watching Avengers Assemble. On amphetamines.

Or so Bru tells me.

I've never seen that movie.

Well, just the once.

Best of luck to Scotland and their fans today, ye will either hammer France or get done in a very close hard fought out match. Sadly I fear the latter.

Thanks Billy.

Got to say I'm more comfortable this weekend as we're back to the more familiar position of being hopeful instead of believing there's a strong chance we'll win. That's when Scotland teams usually perform best so no doubt we'll go on to win now...
!

I do hope that it is a Scotland win though RDW

Another nice column from Johnny B Penalised:
http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/43001599

eirebilly wrote:I do hope that it is a Scotland win though RDW

I've always liked you!

jimbopip wrote:

RDW_Scotland wrote:

George Carlin wrote:Faint nausea, slightly farty, optimistic for no particular reason.

It must be a 6 Nations game day.

Morrison write a piece in the Hootsmon describing Scotland as rugby's equivalent of the Inbetweeners. Hard to argue with that.

Is that not just old age?

Can't be because I'm feeling the same way.