PGA Tour: The California Riviera: Notes from the Ballwasher

1).OK, So who would you have chosen to hold the AT&T National trophy before play last Sunday?
The rather rotund cack-handed grunt, mini-tour veteran (and legend), or:
Blokes who had won multiple times at Pebble Beach, Dustin Johnson, Phil Mickelson, or the Aussie who won at Torrey Pines a couple of weeks before and boasted a record of consistent PB top tens?
In the end, it was Ted Potter who was always the most comfortable, winning, as they say, like he'd been there before.

2).Which he had, one win on the PGA Tour, a couple of web.com trophies and over $500K in mini-tour winnings, fourth in career wins on the Hooters Tour for instance. (Chad Campbell leads that list with 13; incidentally, Lincoln's David Skinns also tied with Potter, but probably a bit late for him to emulate the others.)
Anyway, good for Ted Potter - it'll be interesting to see where his career goes from here. A long way from his first year on the web.com (Nationwide then) Tour when he missed all 24 cuts.

3).How long did that final round take for the leaders? 6 hours?? Surely the PGA needs to take a look at that, though it's also true that they were hit by a perfect storm of players qualified to compete on Sunday. But still . . . . . .

4).Pursuing last week's theme of horses for California courses, Torrey Pines, Pebble and Riviera at least.
Dustin doesn't play so well at Torrey Pines, but his record at Pebble Beach is phenomenal:
PB: Played 11, Cuts made 10, Top 10's 8, Top 5's 7, with 2 runners up, 2 wins.
Riv: Played 10, Cuts made 8, Top 10's 7, Top 5's 5, with 2 runners up and last year's win.

5).Jason Day doesn't play Riviera well and won't be in this year's field, but his record at Torrey Pines and PB is strong:
TP: Played 9, with four Top Tens and 2 wins and a 2nd in the past 6 visits.
PB: Played 9, Never missed a cut, 7 x Top 15's, 4 x Top 4's in the last 5 years.

6).Phil has 7 wins and 6 runner-up finishes just on these three courses.
Obviously Tiger reigned supreme at Torrey Pines, had two glorious weeks at Pebble Beach, but says of Riviera, "I love the course. I love the layout. it fits my eye. And I play awful. It's very simple." He's never won there, only really come close once, runner-up to Els in a past life for both.

7).But others also have fine records on these courses, all with somewhat similar grasses:
Snedeker's a dud at Rivera but mustard at Torrey Pines (7 x Top 10's, 5 x podiums incl 2 wins), and has 2 wins and a 4th in his last six trips to Pebble Beach. A great putting stroke for the greens, as indeed does Ted Potter.
JB Holmes obviously plays well in Phoenix but has 3 x Top 6's at San Diego the last 4 years, has his moments at PB but also plays well @ Riviera.

The point is that most Pros have courses where they far exceed the expectations based upon their overall career record, Steele at San Antonio and Silverado, Henley in Houston, Kuchar @ Memorial, Donald at Harbour Town, etc, etc.. If you can find them, you'll get substantially better odds than you'd expect and almost the guarantee of a run for your money.

8).Talking of courses, this week's is a beaut, George Thomas's Riviera. It's 10th hole is renowned as being amongst the best short Par-4's anywhere - some enjoyed Zac Blair's piece in a recent Golf Digest. This is his take on #10:
https://www.pgatour.com/news/2017/02/13/riviera-country-club-genesis-open-10th-hole-expert-s-insight-zac-blair.html

Recently the Tour has allowed the 10th green to get ridiculously firm, tricking the hole up to an unnecessary extent. Just let it play . . . . .
Woods's take perhaps suggests he's beginning to lighten up in middle age: "I've done both, I've gone for it and I've laid up, and I've been very unsuccessful both ways". First time at "Riv" for Tont since 2006, let's see how he does. He complained of sire feet after the Farmers, so hopefully he'll wear some comfy ECCO's this week and be good to go at "Honda".

9).More Euro-Tourists are on the bandwagon this week, Fleetwood, Kaymer, Pieters (2nd last year), etc. And Jim Furyk makes a cameo after 6 months out.  
Last Sunday Paul Casey made an early surge up the leaderboard, just reaching contention before making a horlicks of #'s 7 and 8. He's played Riviera well before, lost in a play-off 3 years ago when he probably should have won. If he's ever going to earn another win, this could well be the place. Strong e.w. chance anyway, but tough to look past DJ this week - is that too obvious?
No Sergio, though he plays Riviera well, but two other course experts are Bubba (Top 17, incl 2 x wins, whenever he's made the cut) and Jimmy Walker, just a few years removed from a fantastic run of Coastal Cal consistency.

10).Finally, best wishes to Bill Haas and others injured in that LA car accident. Hopefully Haas will be back in the golfing saddle soon; he won Riviera in a thrilling finish a few years ago - perhaps he might even play in Hartford if he has to make up for lost time, he's an excellent guy to follow.

Read that the driver of the Ferrari that Haas was in is brown bread. Was it someone from the golfing world?

super,
I believe so, at least in the LA area; reportedly influential in bringing the Walker Cup and US Open to LA Country Club.


In happier news, here's a brief interview with Ben Taylor (Ned said he's from Walton Heath) who won last week's web.com tournament:

http://www.golfchannel.com/video/taylor-reveals-his-bumpy-journey-becoming-champion/

As a result of that win, he should get him a yuuuuge step towards the "Top 25" and next season's PGA Tour.

The driver was the retired CEO of an asset management company, I read. No doubt moved in golfing circles but not a name I recognised.
If I’d had to make a list of golfers likely to be involved I a fatal high speed Ferrari crash, Bill Haas would’ve been right towards the bottom. Who knew he had a bit of the Arjun Atwals in him?

NedB-H wrote:The driver was the retired CEO of an asset management company, I read. No doubt moved in golfing circles but not a name I recognised.
If I’d had to make a list of golfers likely to be involved I a fatal high speed Ferrari crash, Bill Haas would’ve been right towards the bottom. Who knew he had a bit of the Arjun Atwals in him?

Wonder if he had any option?
The Ferrari man was apparently a mate of Billy Harmon who put him in touch with Haas.
Agree though, difficult to read Ferrari and Haas in the same sentence.

Read something earlier about Tigers last Riviera appearance, apparently Stevie forgot to bring an umbrella, Big Cat got cold and wet, then ill and got a house in the wrong part of town. Followed by missing the cut or WD'ing, I can't remember. Either an excuse or it really was the final nail for an event he wasn't getting on too well with.

Mac, you can't get ill from being cold and wet. You can get a chill, but a healthy adult cannot get ill.

super_realist wrote:Mac, you can't get ill from being cold and wet. You can get a chill, but a healthy adult cannot get ill.

Yeah but doing too many reps can wear the body and the immune system down leaving it susceptible to illness :-p

super_realist wrote:Mac, you can't get ill from being cold and wet. You can get a chill, but a healthy adult cannot get ill.

He didn't say he got ill from being cold and wet.

GPB wrote:

super_realist wrote:Mac, you can't get ill from being cold and wet. You can get a chill, but a healthy adult cannot get ill.

He didn't say he got ill from being cold and wet.

Ha!

"How long did that final round take for the leaders? 6 hours?? Surely the PGA needs to take a look at that"

Copy and paste every week Kwini? PGA don't seem to care.

Great article btw

Got no clue what to expect from Tiger this week. Could be the course that didn't suit him back then, will now. (If he can keep his driver on the planet). Not this year probably, but maybe in the future.

One thing for sure though, the green surfaces at the Riv are improved about zillion% since Tiger played it in his past life. They used to spike up and crown the poa worst on tour... worst by miles.

Footnote on Pieters: A lot of attention on Spieth's Texas team having won an NCAA championship at Riviera. But everyone seems to forget it was Illinois' Thomas Pieters that dusted the field to win the individual that year. Beat Spieth by a dozen or sumpin.  Add Pieters great  showing last year... It's like Kwini says... Horses for courses.

More hand wringing over pace of play {{{yawn}}}.

Yeah... I think the Tour should take steps to knock the 15 minutes longer the PGAT plays now than it did 40, 50, 60 years ago. (Actually played slower than now in the 90's). But good gawd, lets be sensible and hope ridiculous solutions like the Shot-Clock Masters is a one-off.

Not excusing JB or 6-hour rounds... But Pebble had a huge cut for them, plus 25 AM's. So almost 100 players with many groups playing four. Slow? Duh, ya think?

Here's a clue. Pro Golf ain't gonna get faster unless you significantly reduce field sizes... period. And you can't keep demanding course tighten themselves up, grow rough, add length and everything else they're doing to combat distance.... And at the same time say "Speed up Slowpokes". It makes no sense.

The tricky thing about Pieters is that he's so darned inconsistent, he hasn't registered a Top Ten finish in a full-field event since his T4 at The Masters (and that's not the fullest field you'll ever see, but at least there's a cut). Just as likely to miss the weekend.

Anyway, they're off and Andrew Loupe has already shown how not to play #10. Followed him last year and he was absolutely awful - and pretty miserable while he was at it #fakehandicap.

Great forecast for the next four days.


PS: robo - I DID say there was a perfect storm. With the hope that the Tour, tournament and PAC might strive for a better way to handle the inevitable logjam they created last Sunday.

Kwini... I won't say all this pace of play talk is much ado about nothing, it's just that it's WAY overblown. IMO take care of the individual slowpokes, which can probably be handled simply by publishing "bad times" and the problem is 95% solved. But beyond the 10-15 minutes that will save by getting golf back to the pace of "the old days"... you're not gonna make any more progress unless you significantly reduce field size. And that's NEVER gonna fly with the membership of either of the "big tours".

robopz wrote:Kwini...  I won't say all this pace of play talk is much ado about nothing, it's just that it's WAY overblown. IMO take care of the individual slowpokes, which can probably be handled simply by publishing "bad times" and the problem is 95% solved. But beyond the 10-15 minutes that will save by getting golf back to the pace of "the old days"... you're not gonna make any more progress unless you significantly reduce field size. And that's NEVER gonna fly with the membership of either of the "big tours".

I'm not talking about pace of play in general, I'm referring only to a Sunday at Pebble Beach where 75 pros qualify, plus 25 amateurs, plus a small number of pros whose team has qualified - by my count that's 102 golfers crammed into Pebble Beach. Are you saying that's in any way acceptable to any Tour, anywhere?
I doubt it.
So, all I'm saying is what would the Tour, tournament director, PAC, etc, recommend to do different? Yes, they had a perfect storm but, guess what, sh1t happens - the trick is to avoid it happening again if you possibly can. And I would suggest, yes, they possibly can do a few things different.
Choices could include:
~Sending out fewer than the minimum 60 pros by going down to top 55 (or 50) and ties in the event of more than 65 or 70 qualifying.
~Reducing the number of teams qualifying from 25 to 20.
~Concluding the team event on Saturday.
~Disqualifying teams whose Pro misses the cut.
~And, GPB wouldn't like it, but play the final round with all starting on #1 at crack of sparrows, twosome first, followed by the threesomes (if you must have two- and three-somes).

Ah, an actual solution always stops the conversation.

Scoring seems pretty tricky in Round 1; TV coverage starts soon, love it that the afternoon broadcasts seem longer. Or is that just because Woods is in the house? Tiger +2 strokes gained putting, Rory in negative territory but both even at the moment, Rory bogeying 2 x Par-5's, eagling the other!

Was viewership way down in last week's event because of pace of play? Were professionals skipping it because pace of play? There's your answer I think!

It's a threshold SR.
Players will play regardless of time, how long will people continue to watch a snoozefest?

You certainly could be right S_R. Until then, look for the powers to be to keep taking money to the bank. Money talks, you know what walks ...

Shotrock wrote:Was viewership way down in last week's event because of pace of play? Were professionals skipping it because pace of play? There's your answer I think!

Another obtuse effort to avoid the fact that there were 102 golfers on the course on Sunday when the BIG Tour, in its infinite wisdom, decreed that no more than 70 and ties shall play on normal Sundays.

So, even if the BIG Tour turns a blind eye to 6 hour rounds, how long will the networks put up with it?

Do you think professionals would tolerate a daily diet of such dawdling? Of course not. But they're not likely to demonstrate that by walking off the course mid-round.

How long will the network put up with it? How long will the professionals tolerate such "dawdling"? You say "of course not" ... I'll disagree with that!  It's not like they are chomping at the bit to do something else (anything else?) late Sunday afternoon for anywhere near the $$ ...

So, the poor boys have to work an extra couple of hours for this tournament. They actually have to wait at tee boxes and drink bottled water. Call the department of labor.

Players like Grayson Murray and Shane Lowry are probably glad of the rest and the opportunity to feed their fat faces.

So, Sr, You're a marketing guru, always talking about the power of the almighty dollar. How do you pitch this to a potential sponsor:

Hey, We've got a great idea for Sunday afternoon entertainment, Network TV coverage already locked in. We're going to abandon the norms of sport and common sense and have 102 golfers, 25 of them hacking bandits, all on the (shortest on the PGA Tour) course simultaneously; the normal final round of 4 1/2+ hours will be extended to 6 hours (I'm guessing, could well have been longer) and we'll be able to show more of the Pros on tee boxes chatting to their partners than ever we will golfing.

I seriously doubt you would feel this to be sustainable but you're the bloke that reckons this is just fine. Wouldn't work for a Sunday round at Aronomink, won't work for sport if that's on the advertised menu for the AT&T next year.

So, Kwin, with your great insight on what players will and will not do, and what networks will and will not tolerate ... PLEASE tell us all when the AT&T tournament will be shunned by all? Can you be specific on dates. Next year? Year after?

Much ado about nothing ...

Also, where's AronOmink?

Shotrock wrote:So, Kwin, with your great insight on what players will and will not do, and what networks will and will not tolerate ... PLEASE tell us all when the AT&T tournament will be shunned by all? Can you be specific on dates. Next year? Year after?

Much ado about nothing ...

Obviously no insight whatsoever, but I suspect the SOF for Phoenix will be lower next year and I expect the same at PB. Would probably have taken 7 hours if there'd been weather.

If it's acceptable, so be it. Not surprising posters on here reckon TV golf is boring.
The only reason I brought it up is because obviously there was a confluence of what-could-go-wrong-did-go-wrong; what would be suggested remedies? Your view is that it's perfectly OK, so that's an answer.
Apologies for the spelling mistake, have to be careful in future.

Golf is slow at times, most can agree that. But as mentioned nowt will be done until people stop watching or attending. Same with people who moan about football ticket prices yet grounds are full, or the cost of sky yet they still sell loads.

Reduce a golf course to 16 or 14 holes. Skip a par 4 on each side.

On existing courses that’d leave space for grandstands, parking lots, real estate development, you name it. Cost of building and maintenance will go down, so will cost of memberships and consequently more people will play - probably even mac. In pro tournaments rounds will be faster, you’ll have more close finishes (and even more playoffs) and drama and consequently more people will watch on TV. Win-win all-around.

You can nail me to a cross if you like, but other sports have successfully changed formats drastically as well, ex table tennis and badminton. 18 is not a magic number, it coincidental, and a couple of par 4s less won’t take anything away from the sport.

Edit: And reduce number of clubs in the bag to 10 or 12. Nothing sacrosanct about 14. Apart from faster play, fewer clubs means more skills needed. That will ensure the better players prevail, despite having to contest over fewer holes.

We all seem, except maybe Shotrock and robo, to be overlooking the fact that the Pebble Pro-Am takes in some of the highest stateside viewing figures of the year. Probably not the case over here, but a) the tour doesn’t care about that and b) that’s because none of us have a clue who the likes of Larry Fitzgerald are. I wouldn’t be at all surprised if the Dunhill Links has similarly impressive viewing figures when compared to rank and file Euro tournaments.

Unfortunately, the fact of the matter is that more people tune in to these pro-Ams than other tournaments. Clearly they attract occasional viewers, who no doubt tune in cos of the “celebs”. And the powers that be take the view - correctly according to the numbers - that enough of us proper golf fans will reluctantly tune in anyway, that they can afford the few who switch of all together in a huff. I don’t like the 6 hour rounds any more than anyone else on here, but the numbers don’t back us up. And that is why you’ll find that the best sports administrators are very often not big sports fans, and big sports fans who go into sports administration are often terrible at it.

If anything we should be grateful it’s not worse. Other than golf I’m also a big fan of cricket, but I enjoy Tests and get bored by twenty20s. But viewing figures dictate that Test cricket seems to be in terminal decline. At least we only have a couple of 6 hour pro-Ams a year. The same argument used about Phoenix a couple of weeks back is probably relevant again... if you don’t like it you’ve got the rest of the year to enjoy golf tournaments more to your taste.

Completely agree with all, Ned.
But twenty20 cricket wouldn't be popular if it wasn't for Test Cricket.
Sevens wouldn't be popular if not for the 15-a-side game.
And indoor soccer (once watched a sell-out game in Dallas with David Nish and Roger Davies, among others) wouldn't have had any cachet if footie wasn't a big thing at the time.
Seriously doubt that 6-hour golf with a "celebrity" thrown in would make it either. One (genuine) celebrity couldn't be bothered to hang about.
As said several times before, if most people wanted to watch someone doing something they're not very good at, they'd watch the weather forecast.

But the BIG Tour $$$$$$$$$$$$ folks ignored the question and went on their own, non-sequitor rants. The final round at Pebble Beach should be a celebration of so much that's good about golf, but 6 hours of that is surely not what they want. But maybe it is?
And I made suggestions of how it might be changed so that Sunday's standstill might not be repeated.
I DID consider the Dunhill, but that's better organized and don't think the snail-pace has extended to six hours. Not yet anyway.

As said earlier, there are analogies but I'd better not go there.

For the Pebble Pro-Am, Every effort should be made to adjust the pairing to have all foursomes.

There were 28 groupings on Sunday, Mostly foursomes, some threesomes, and one two some (Mike Weir and his partner).

If 102 players was indeed the number, then it should have 24 4-somes and 2 three somes.

26 groups fit on an 18 hole course better than than 28 groups. The play would not be that much faster, but the bottlenecks would be fewer. and schedule the tee times with 11/12 minute increments. If the rounds are going to be 5.5 hours, then the tee times for each nine should be over 2.5 hours (not 2 hours)

https://www.pgatour.com/tournaments/at-t-pebble-beach-pro-am/tee-times.html

Agreed that that would most likely answer Part 1 of the problem.
Part 2 is the reality that the 102 situation could possibly be repeated and any ideas for that not to happen.

This wasn't meant to be a divisive question!!!!

Rafa en fuego, 6 under par after 7 holes.

I love it when the golf course wins. Close to being my favourite course for testing the Pros.

Another dismal week for Shane Lowry.


Just about the full fleet of Europeans next week at "Honda". But no sign of Ross Fisher which couldn't be much more bizarrer.

The trials and tribulations of Paul Casey.
One shot below the cut-line he misses a 2-foot birdie putt on his 17th hole, then makes a 21-footer on his 18th to play the weekend.
Any betting he'll be in the mid-sixties on Saturday?

Two missed tiddlers from Rory and he'd be right in the mix. but good for McDool who can make or break his season in the next 36 holes.

It would appear that "Needs more Reps", needs more reps.

super_realist wrote:It would appear that "Needs more Reps", needs more reps.

He'll get 'em next week, at least 36 holes by the looks of it.

Hadn't realised that the Barbasol Championship has shifted courses, from the Auburn, Alabama area to "Nicholasville", Kentucky, just outside Lexington.

Round 2 wrapping up at Riviera.

Prime Euro RC contenders not performing well at Riviera

Noren T26
RCB T37
Rory T42
Fleetwood T51
Kaymer T54
Casey T54

For whatever reason, Europeans have only won Riviera once (Faldo) since before WWII.

Unlikely, I suppose, that McDowell or Laird will buck that trend.

Anyone else confused with the TV coverage? You see three players playing third shots to the 10th green and next someone is teeing off to the same green with the flag in. Are they using the “call up” feature or is it just bad TV?

GPB wrote:Prime Euro RC contenders not performing well at Riviera

Noren T26
RCB T37
Rory T42
Fleetwood T51
Kaymer T54
Casey T54

Good job you missed out Pieters from that lot - struggling to keep in the Top 70.


Yup, Calling players up on the short Par-4 10th. Never convinced it speeds play up.

My bad as you say over there. Just seen the first group putting out, so they must be calling the next group up.

I guess the argument is that the time the second group use to walk up to the green isn’t wasted because the first group use it to putt out. But I always suspected the main reason for calling up was to be nosy on the people playing behind you.

We see it every year at the 15th green @ Hartford; usually leads to a logjam on 16 or 17.

Well done Bubba - love him or hate him, I reckon he's good for golf. And now ten wins in the bag, a pretty good career whatever Bubba does next. Good to see a competitive finish on a great golf course.
Interesting greens too!

I'm never wrong wrote:Anyone else confused with the TV coverage? You see three players playing third shots to the 10th green and next someone is teeing off to the same green with the flag in. Are they using the “call up” feature or is it just bad TV?

What annoys me on the PGATour coverage is how often the second or third player hitting into the green is shown first. You then see where the first players shot ended up before they actually show it.
They rarely do this on the ET coverage.

kwinigolfer wrote:We see it every year at the 15th green @ Hartford; usually leads to a logjam on 16 or 17.

Well done Bubba - love him or hate him, I reckon he's good for golf. And now ten wins in the bag, a pretty good career whatever Bubba does next. Good to see a competitive finish on a great golf course.
Interesting greens too!

Didn’t realise he seriously considered retiring. I had hoped for it though. But seems we now have to cope with him a few more years. Can’t take away from him that he’s pretty talented.

kwinigolfer wrote:We see it every year at the 15th green @ Hartford; usually leads to a logjam on 16 or 17.

Well done Bubba - love him or hate him, I reckon he's good for golf. And now ten wins in the bag, a pretty good career whatever Bubba does next. Good to see a competitive finish on a great golf course.
Interesting greens too!

Not keen on the uncultured, ignoramus hypocrite Watson, but every sport needs its pantomime villains.

pedro wrote:
What annoys me on the PGATour coverage is how often the second or third player hitting into the green is shown first. You then see where the first players shot ended up before they actually show it.
They rarely do this on the ET coverage.

This.

They do it all the time, and on the putting green too where you can see the markers. Mildly annoying, but what’s worse is they do it all the time in match play which totally messes up the coverage.

You don’t see this on the ET. Maybe the tv producers for PGA tour don’t play / understand golf so don’t realise what they are doing wrong. I’ve even heard the US commentators get irritated by this a couple of times.

Bubba may be marmite, but his unorthodox style and willingness to be unconventional is a welcome addition to golf. So many identikit pros out there today. Probably more the younger generation who are fitter, more athletic, look the same, talk the same, swing the same, carefully manage their media presence.

As a cosmopolitan chap like bubba would say: “vive la difference!”