Yellow cards

I am going to have a moan here so apologise in advance.

On Saturday, during the Ireland - Wales match, Aki deliberately knocked the ball down whilst Wales were in a strong attacking position. Davies got the ball and proceeded to score but Aki got off without even a warning. Now, if Wales had not scored the try then surely Aki would have received a Yellow Card.

In and Earlier match in the 6N, England (cant remember who) scored in the corner but the player was taken out in the process of scoring by a no arms tackle. Again, he the player not have scored then this infringement would have resulted in a Yellow Card as well.

Why do the officials let deliberate actions such as these go unpunished simply because a try has been scored? In both instances, I believe the try's should have stood as well as both infringing players seeing Yellow Cards.

Was the Watson try I believe.

I believe it was Scott.

Yep Watson ... and if he hadn't scored and a PT and YC had been given they would also have got 2 extra points as the conversion was missed. So by scoring we were worse off by 2 points and didn't have an extra man for 10 mins ...

eirebilly wrote:I am going to have a moan here so apologise in advance.

On Saturday, during the Ireland - Wales match, Aki deliberately knocked the ball down whilst Wales were in a strong attacking position. Davies got the ball and proceeded to score but Aki got off without even a warning. Now, if Wales had not scored the try then surely Aki would have received a Yellow Card.

In and Earlier match in the 6N, England (cant remember who) scored in the corner but the player was taken out in the process of scoring by a no arms tackle. Again, he the player not have scored then this infringement would have resulted in a Yellow Card as well.

Why do the officials let deliberate actions such as these go unpunished simply because a try has been scored? In both instances, I believe the try's should have stood as well as both infringing players seeing Yellow Cards.

If I recall correctly - and I may be well wrong - in the days before yellow cards was it not the case that if an offence was committed which would have resulted in a penalty try if the try was not actually scored, there was an award of a penalty kick from the centre spot? I am sure I remember seeing something like that on a couple of occasions?

For me, that's a job for the TMO to look at on his own initiative.

The onfield officials should be looking to keep the game moving. We already complain how long a review takes when a try is in doubt, so it's not surprising referees play on when a try has clearly been scored.

Once the has been given the TMO has nothing else to do, so he might as well review footage to see what went on.

Very good point. You see some tmo s being pro active in this and others not so much. The wilson citing at the weekend. I find it hard to believe the tmo hasn't had a look. The neck roll on Farrell leading to the 2nd try not so much as that's more led by the ref.

If they are with a strong ref like owens though would you stick your neck above the parapet as he is quite dismissive normally and tmo s are no where near the expertise of refs.

eirebilly wrote:I am going to have a moan here so apologise in advance.

On Saturday, during the Ireland - Wales match, Aki deliberately knocked the ball down whilst Wales were in a strong attacking position. Davies got the ball and proceeded to score but Aki got off without even a warning. Now, if Wales had not scored the try then surely Aki would have received a Yellow Card.

In and Earlier match in the 6N, England (cant remember who) scored in the corner but the player was taken out in the process of scoring by a no arms tackle. Again, he the player not have scored then this infringement would have resulted in a Yellow Card as well.

Why do the officials let deliberate actions such as these go unpunished simply because a try has been scored? In both instances, I believe the try's should have stood as well as both infringing players seeing Yellow Cards.

Was he not making a tackle when it happened though?

Rugby Fan wrote:For me, that's a job for the TMO to look at on his own initiative.  

The onfield officials should be looking to keep the game moving. We already complain how long a review takes when a try is in doubt, so it's not surprising referees play on when a try has clearly been scored.

Once the has been given the TMO has nothing else to do, so he might as well review footage to see what went on.

Cannot remember the reaction of the referee in the England instance but the ref certainly called advantage to Wales in the Aki incident so no need to include the TMO here. I do believe that the ref had every right to award the try and give Aki a yellow card. Deliberate and cynical play should not go unpunished because a try has been scored in my opinion.

If people are happy with the status quo then fair enough but I am not.

Maybe refs are encouraged ................em................. not to kill Six Nation contests unless absolutely necessary: ie. be tolerant if infringed team get a reward?

Blatant violence, high tackles, gouging etc.... they'd get everything coming to them and should.  
But just look at a game in genuine Real detail.  Every moment of it, not just the moments in and around the most exciting plays of the day or the try scoring moments.  
You see a shed load of offences though a game that stall the progress of an attacking team and directly or indirectly illegally stop a potential try being scored.  The one I detest! - is holding on after the ball.  Players clinging to opposition players in the aftermath of a maul to keep them from getting back in position to defend or to charge away to assist in an attacking move.
Nobody (most of all refs or TMOs) ever seem to give a damn about those moments.  If a Captain brought such moment's to a ref's attention, he'd probably be ridiculed by ref and opposition teams "Sure grow up, man - it's part of the game.  Everyone does it."  And yes, it is part of the game but it's still not right.

How come so little talk of these moments from people who scan over games looking for potential cards that weren't given.
Not a low blow directed at you personally, billy, just using your thread to put that out there.  
Try scoring moves are endlessly being stopped in their tracks by the sly off the ball bumps and tugs.  When do we start issuing yellow cards and when do we stop giving them to make sure we have a realistic game to watch?

Fly, holding onto the ball is not a direct Yellow Card offence unless it is repeated and a team is under a warning. Deliberately knocking the ball on and no arms tackles are direct Yellow Card offences.

My point is, why are there no Yellow Cards issued for direct Yellow Card offences if try has been scored in the same play? Direct Yellow Card offences should be punished no matter what the outcome of the play.

I think you are making a bit of a mockery of my point to be honest by trying to bring every offence you see in a game. I am not claiming all offences should be Yellow Cards at all, just enforce the rules of the game no matter what the outcome of the play.

I'm making a mockery of anything and have distinctly said I'm not really addressing you but more the point of yellow cards.  The topic.  

You get annoyed when a yellow card isn't shown for a deliberate attempt to illegally stop a try scoring chance. So be it.
I say it's my opinion that holding on away from the ball is as serious an offence as any in terms of deliberately ensuring players aren't where they should be (by physical manhandling them) when trying to defend against tries or be involved in the scoring of them.  It's cheating and it should be a 'direct yellow card'.
But if it's not a direct yellow card offence (and it never is, despite victim players trying to be oh-so-visual in letting the ref know they are being held back), then I'm happy if Aki got away with something.  If we're going to be casual - let's be casual.

But that is my point Fly, its not what you or I think deserves to be a Yellow Card offence, its about what the current rules are. Deliberate knock-ons and no arms tackles are current direct Yellow Card offences. These offences should be punished regardless of the outcome of the play for me.

Don't know if it's worth pointing out but there was a lot of anger in super rugby last week because the ref went ahead and yellowed + penalty tried a player for a no arms tackle on the try line. So it is getting enforced in some locations

What is required is a standard ruling on the tariff for the offence commited,NOT a red,yellow,penalty or nothing.
One of the most obvious is tackling a player off the ball,on a least 5 occasions in last two seasons.A player
coming to make a tackle to stop a try,is held in a bear hug off the ball.NOTRY,Yellow Card,professional foul.
When it occurs in front of a assistant-referee and isn`t even refered to TMO?should have gone to Specsavers.
What really pisses me off,is the constant experimental laws,and points systems,its getting back to NH rules
or none.Teams always cheat it`s the nature of the beast but now it`s getting really stupid,the hollywoods
seen recently well?

Darn right emack!

What annoys me is referees constantly saying ruck after ruck to players release the ball now/hands off the ball/etc. If they are holding onto the ball, not releasing the tackler, etc just penalise them, do not allow them to slow down the ball constantly. This is a particular moan as an England fan as we seem to get penalised, whereas Wales and Scotland seem to get away constantly with warnings but no penalties. I appreciate it is a skill interpreting how a referee is refereeing the breakdown (or not as was Owens approach in the England v Scotland game) and adapting appropriately to that, but when you watch the matches tomorrow count the number of times you hear the referee shouting hands out/release the ball/etc.

And back on topic just because you score a try should not negate the yellow or red card. The direction is to card the offending player where a penalty try is awarded when the offending player can be identified. The obvious thing to do is for more than one player to offend as referees won't have the bottle to card 2 or 3 players at the same time. So don't have one player collapse a mall, do it collectively. In the old days it used to be don't have one player stamp on an opponent who was on the wrong side of the maul, do it collectively and worst case was a penalty would be awarded - the referee wouldn't send off 8 players. Likewise if you are going to throw a punch make sure 4 or 5 players are involved. There should be a rule in situations where the referee cannot identify the culprit, or there is more than one to allow the offending team to nominate a player to take the card.

I would also be interested to see the basketball approach to penalty accumulations - every 5 penalties a player is automatically carded. Again it annoys me that some referees allow teams to commit offence after offence and do nothing other than award the penalty.

It’s inconsistent, we have seen players carded in some cases, or penalties awarded after the conversion but not in others.

Watch a lower league match in Hampshire last weekend and a player was shoulder barged similar to the Watson try. Scorer got the points, defender got a yellow.