6 NATIONS - WALES V ITALY - 11/03/18

First topic message reminder :

WALES V ITALY

Venue: Principality Stadium, Cardiff Date: Sunday, 11 March Kick-off: 15:00 GMT

Coverage: Live on BBC One Wales & S4C, BBC Radio Wales, BBC Radio Cymru & BBC Sport website and BBC Sport app, plus live text commentary.

Wales: L Williams, North, Watkin, Parkes, S Evans; Anscombe, G Davies; Smith, Dee, Francis, Hill, B Davies, Tipuric, J Davies, Faletau (capt).

Replacements: Owens, R Evans, Lee, S Davies, Jenkins, A Davies, Patchell, Halfpenny.

10 changes! really?

I reckon you'll get 3 more by the end ...

I know that there were a lot of changes to this Welsh team but this has not been a very good performance at all. They will probably get the TBP but they have not looked that great against the team with the worst defence in the 6N.

Well, my crystal ball got this one wrong!  Time to smash it up against a wall and buy a cheaper one at Aldi

That’s a try! F*king ridiculous! Spoiled Mother’s Day!

There it is! Party time!

How flat is the crowd?! That’s Sunday games for you. Everyone’s got an eye on work in the morning.

Friday is the night if not Satur-day

Told you ... only a matter of time ...

Although I still struggle with why players are allowed to 'clear out' defenders a yard past the ruck and hold on to them to stop them getting to the next one (not in this play but the one before) ...

2 more tries for my prediction to be correct ...

And fascinated to see the selection for France ...

Now 1 more ....

MOM is Parkes anyway.

Heaf wrote:And fascinated to see the selection for France ...

I think it’ll be back to normal. Full strength I reckon. The main question is who plays 10 as we’ve tried 3 this tournament and none have been great (Pathchell v Scotland was quiet good). And 10 really dictates how we play (as it does for most teams in guess!).

Well that's ruined my points difference prediction ...

got that right anyway

Well done on the win Wales but by god ye will have to be a hell of a lot better next week if ye want to beat the French.

I suspect it will be a different team next week

I also the expect the intensity and atmosphere to be a lot better next week.

I think that strength-in-depth thing, that seems to be the sexy term in recent years, is the thing Gatland has to have rethoughts on.
10 changes probably was too many but still I think had Wales played with more confidence they'd have avoided much of the messy stuff with Italy. I thought 'pressure-off' was going to really let their cat out of the bag but no - very tense stuff from many players

SecretFly wrote:I think that strength-in-depth thing, that seems to be the sexy term in recent years, is the thing Gatland has to have rethoughts on.
10 changes probably was too many but still I think had Wales played with more confidence they'd have avoided much of the messy stuff with Italy.  I thought 'pressure-off' was going to really let their cat out of the bag but no - very tense stuff from many players

Developing strength in depth, Fly, rather than having it. That’s the aim. We haven’t got it but want to develop it. I guess the theory is that you have to play the players to develop the depth.

Well I know, but trying to develop hoards of them in the one game is maybe not the way to do it only a year out from a WC.
Has Gatland left it all too late?  Well I don't know.  I just think maybe he put too much pressure on the guys playing today instead of telling them to go out there and keep the ball in motion and enjoy.

He said a few weeks back that the 6N was over for him and that now it was over to thinking about the WC.  But that didn't last long and he started thinking about 2nd in the 6N (that competitive spirit in him just couldn't let Scotland and England play that out on their own).
So the pressure was back on the players to get a specific scoreline.  Maybe that told.

Yeah, you're probably right.

It was such a flat game, wasn't it? I feel deflated for some reason! Yet we beat Italy comfortably (on the scoreboard). 5 tries to 2. 24 point gap. And that's being down to 14 men for 20 mins too. Weird feeling.

Just like to say well done Wales for getting the win today, did not expect that score line to be honest. not with all the changes that was made for this game.

But any way well done today.

At times there was some daft play from Wales. I felt the ref was too pedantic when both teams wanted to play running and offloading rugby. On a positive note I thought Cubby had a good debut.

Anyone seen Liam?

Heard he left the stadium early.

Heaf wrote:I suspect it will be a different team next week

I think it will be

Halfpenny, North, Watkin (doesn’t deserve to be dropped now), Parkes, Evans (but not great today), Anscombe, Aled Davies (seeing as Gatland has made a thing about silly yellows), Evans, Owens (though Dee did nothing wrong), Lee (if fit), Hill, AWJ, Shingler, Navidi, Faletau.

Might see Hallam Amos come on to the bench now, as Steff wasn’t great and obviously Williams is very likely to miss out totally. I’d certainly expect more cohesion then. For me Cubby should be in the squad (on the bench) as his tackle count was very high and he did have a good turnover.

Do you really think he will drop Liam Williams?

Certainly from the starting line up. Doesn’t say much with what Gatland said at full time. I guess possibly, Gatland has made his point as he said and because Evans wasn’t great today, maybe there’s still a chance he will start. But I would expect that to happen and maybe Josh Adams on the bench instead of Amos actually.

The missed tackle won’t do him any favours either.

Did Gatland say something about Williams after the game?

Is there a danger some of our guys will be a bit undercooked next week? Those who were rested this week I mean. I don’t think they played for their regions in the last 2 weeks so it will be a 3 week gap with no rugby. I know we complain that they probably play too much, but 3 weeks off might be a bit much. I suppose it’s only a few players in the grand scheme of things, but still.

Did the Liam Williams tackle deserve a yellow card? I thought it was a good tackle to be honest. 

A bit like the Antony Watson tackle for England. Both players seem to be going down as the tackle was being made.

SecretFly wrote:Did Gatland say something about Williams after the game?  

Just that he wasn’t happy with the yellow and that Williams put us under pressure needlessly. Also stated that there was no pre-game plan to only play him for 40 mins, so they decided he wouldn’t return after the sin bin as a subtle message to him. Punishment, if you like.

On the point about dropping Liam Williams (carpet baboon) remember for years Gatland wouldn’t even start Liam Williams! Fans were calling for his inclusion long before it became a regular thing (1/2p at FB, North on one wing and Cuthbert on the other). Williams was a sub for years. So I can see him being dropped again if they think 1/2p adds a bit more defensively (his offence is improving lately since his return to wales and the Welsh team move away from the constant kicking game) and they are happy with North and Steff Evans on the wings.

majesticimperialman wrote:Did the Liam Williams tackle deserve a yellow card? I thought it was a good tackle to be honest. 

A bit like the Antony Watson tackle for England. Both players seem to be going down as the tackle was being made.

By the letter of the law it was a yellow. But for me it was a good hard tackle with the intention of driving the player back into his in-goal area and winning the 5m scrum. But we already had a penalty coming so there was no need. I wonder if Liam W knew this though? It was a good tackle I thought, in terms of wrapping arms, etc. It’s just that the first part to touch the Italian was the shoulder above the Italians shoulder (head/neck area). An inch or 2 below and it’s a good, thumping tackle. But safety is safety so I guess he had to get yellow. The calls for red were a bit daft though I think. This was not a shoulder charge.

majesticimperialman wrote:Just like to say well done Wales for getting the win today, did not expect that score line to be honest. not with all the changes that was made for this game.

But any way well done today.

Thanks Maj.

Yeah. It’s a yellow by the laws, even if realistically it’s a good tackle. Contact with the head is always going to get punished now and with all the concussions about, you have to agree with that.

With regards to my team, maybe Patchell will start over Anscombe thinking about it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gatland kept Anscombe at ten.

RiscaGame wrote:Yeah. It’s a yellow by the laws, even if realistically it’s a good tackle. Contact with the head is always going to get punished now and with all the concussions about, you have to agree with that.

With regards to my team, maybe Patchell will start over Anscombe thinking about it, but I wouldn’t be surprised if Gatland kept Anscombe at ten.

It’s been a funny 6N. Gatland has been criticised over the years for his reluctance to rotate players. He’s blooded players young, often just to cap them I reckon, but he’s been really stubborn at times in sticking to his favourites. He’s even gone on record in the past stating he likes to give players a chance to redeem themselves after a stinker or play themselves back into form. Yet in his 10th year and last 6N he’s gone the polar opposite! We’ve had 3 different fly halves this tournament, and 3 different starters. That’s unheard of for Gats! And because they haven’t had a run it’s been hard for any of them to cement their place. As Nigel Davies said on Scum V, players need a run of games before you decide on them. It’s very hard basing it on just one start. So Gats still probably doesn’t know who’s the best 10 available to him. God knows who will start next week. I can see arguments for all 3 to be honest.

Yeah, the ten position is a bit of a conundrum. If Biggar could’ve got a game in for Ospreys, he may have had a shout but I don’t see it now. Anscombe was pretty solid and kicked his goals (which he won’t have to do next week). Patchell did alright too, bar kicking the one penalty dead. I just think it’ll be Anscombe, as he did nothing to warrant losing his place but you could certainly put forward an argument for the three of them.

With regards to who at 10 for Wales, is Biggar injured? or as he fell out of favore with the Welsh coaching staff?

Just need a Dragons 10 for the full house now. AOB? Or TBFHFTVSDW???!

majesticimperialman wrote:With regards to who at 10 for Wales, is Biggar injured? or as he fell out of favore with the Welsh coaching staff?

Returning from injury Maj. Played vs Ireland but was average and not shown enough in that one game. Doesn’t really fit in with a new style of play either. But still a quality, quality player for me. Just needs to get some club games under his belt and back up to speed.

Patchell at 10 for me. I’d prefer Watkin than williams, I think Scott has been solid to average. Cubby to bench over Tips - both played well today but I guess I just don’t see what everyone else does in Tips. I think we’ll need Bradley against France’s big pack, and I’d be tempted to start Dee (but Gatland won’t be).

So looking at something like:

Halfpenny, North, Watkin, Parkes, Evans, Patchell, GARETH Davies, Faletau, Navidi, Shingler, B Davies, AWJ, Lee, Owens, Evans.
Reps: Dee, W Jones, Francis, S Davies or Hill, Cubby, Tomos Williams, Anscombe, Owen Scott or Liam Williams.

How bad was Aled Davies when he got on though? Today would have been ideal to give Tomos Williams game time.

second place in 6 nations .up for grabs.....got to be Biggar to start .....anscombe bench.. ....forget patchell not up to international level ....that first kick of his straight out !!!!....come on ...even scarlets fans can see we cant field him without halfpenny as goal kicker... at least anscombe and obviously biggar can be selected without halfpenny ......no brainer

I was watching the game on a laptop and doing some other things so wasn't glued to the game as I usually am. Can anyone tell me how Watkin played overall? Apart from the intercept run to set up North's try in the first 10 mins or so I didn't really notice him. But like I say I wasn't glued to it so might have missed some stuff. Did he do enough to keep the shirt?

The Oracle wrote:I was watching the game on a laptop and doing some other things so wasn't glued to the game as I usually am.  Can anyone tell me how Watkin played overall?  Apart from the intercept run to set up North's try in the first 10 mins or so I didn't really notice him.  But like I say I wasn't glued to it so might have missed some stuff.  Did he do enough to keep the shirt?  

I thought he played fairly effectively against a slightly limited opposition midfield. Not making the type of impact someone like Huw Jones has been making, but not a step down on Scott William's performances which have been slightly underwhelming over the last 18 months or so in a Wales shirt.

I thought the testing of players was a great success. Apart from Aled Davies, every player that came in proved that they are able to compete at test match level (against admittedly not the strongest of opposition), not all as first 15ers, but when needed. Cory Hill again really impressed me with Bradley Davies, in an area that we were starting to look a little weak in, along with Elliott Dee.

I think the ref made the first half such a stop start affair that it killed a lot of the atmosphere.

He certainly didn't let the game flow. How did the Italian player that held back Dee not get a yellow ?