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Roll on Garros - 2018 French Open

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Post by MrInvisible Fri 25 May 2018, 12:26 pm

First topic message reminder :

The draw is now out. Nadal gets a comfortable, though not quite 'cakewalk' draw, with the likes of Dologopolov, Pella, Seppi and Gasquet awaiting in first few rounds. Djokovic, Thiem and Zverev are all in the other half and Edmund has a couple of winnable matches before the mercurial Fognini. Djokovic's draw looks tough, likely 2nd round with Ferrer and 3rd round with Bautista Agut. If he gets through those matches unscathed that will do wonders for his confidence and match-sharpness. Not seen a huge number of eye-watering 1st round clashes to be honest (looks better for 2nd/3rd round) but Troicki vs Dimitrov could be one to watch if you're looking for a 1st round upset.

In the womens, pick of the 1st round matches has to be Muguruza vs Kuznetsova, and Serena and Sharapova can potentially meet in 4th round. Wonder if Halep can finally win her maiden slam this time round?


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Post by sirfredperry Mon 04 Jun 2018, 2:26 pm

Serena has pulled out thru injury, while Schwartzman comes back from the brink to win in five against Anderson.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 04 Jun 2018, 3:17 pm

Anyone whom manages a grab a set of Nadal deserves a national holiday named after them. The Spaniard has won 13 consecutive matches in straight sets

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Post by sirfredperry Mon 04 Jun 2018, 4:20 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Anyone whom manages a grab a set of Nadal deserves a national holiday named after them. The Spaniard has won 13 consecutive matches in straight sets

Well at least Marterer gave a good account of himself. Serena has been explaining her arm problem which was preventing her from serving properly. She'll stay on in Paris to have a scan.
Cilic a set and a break up against Fognini who has just had an MTO.

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Post by No name Bertie Mon 04 Jun 2018, 6:22 pm

I wonder if Serena Williams arm injury was caused by the additional task of carrying her baby - how old is her baby now?  Of course the injury may also have been due to a lack of match / tournament fitness because of the time she has had out from the sport.

ps We have to congratulate A Zverev for making progress and reaching his first grand slam QF.  He has certainly demonstrated an ability to fight tooth and nail having come back from two sets to one down on several occasions to win in five sets.  But surely Thiem is favorite against Zverev in the QF, because Thiem is a better clay court player than Zverev.

Congratulations to Del Potro for reaching the QF.

Meanwhile Fognini is fighting back against Cilic. From being two sets to love down he has pulled it back to two sets all with the fourth set decided on a tie-break.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Mon 04 Jun 2018, 7:21 pm

Fognini just falls short in five sets against Cilic. A gallant display by the eccentric Italian but the big Croat progresses to the QFs.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:10 pm

Zverev and Thiem would usually be a pick em, both reasonably well matched on clay. But the key factor could be Sascha's three consecutive 5 set matches and the additional two and a half hours he's spent on court. Sascha's heart can't be doubted but I'd favour Thiem in 4 sets

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Mon 04 Jun 2018, 11:11 pm

sirfredperry wrote:
Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Anyone whom manages a grab a set of Nadal deserves a national holiday named after them. The Spaniard has won 13 consecutive matches in straight sets

Well at least Marterer gave a good account of himself. Serena has been explaining her arm problem which was preventing her from serving properly. She'll stay on in Paris to have a scan.  
  Cilic a set and a break up against Fognini who has just had an MTO.
It was tongue in cheek, I thought the young German played very well

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Post by sirfredperry Tue 05 Jun 2018, 8:11 am

Surely Zverev won't play FOUR successive five-setters? The Thiem match could go either way.
The top of the women's draw features three GS winners plus the world number one, while at the bottom we could get a repeat of the USO final in the semis.

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Post by MrInvisible Tue 05 Jun 2018, 1:11 pm

The consensus seems to be that Nadal will go on to win the title without being unduly pushed.  Whilst I agree he is a big favourite and the outcome on Sunday may appear fairly predictable, I think this tournament is an interesting one and should give us some indications on who the most likely person to win Roland Garros after Nadal hangs up his racket.

Thiem vs Zverev - I think this will turn into an important rivalry, especially on the clay.  Zverev obviously has the more adaptable game for all surfaces (grass maybe a work in progress) whereas Thiem shows signs of being more of an out-and-out claycourt specialist, in the mould of Gustavo Kuerten perhaps.  I do think Thiem is the more accomplished claycourter at this stage of their careers, despite the recent win for Zverev, and on this surface surely the time on court with those 5 setters will start to have an effect - Thiem will be much fresher, and I think he'll win in 4 sets.  I also think that in the future both players will Roland Garros but Thiem will get there first.

Djokovic vs Cecchinato - its been a great tournament for the Sicilian, who had never previously won a main draw match at a slam, and I was impressed with how he handled the big points against Goffin, but whilst he does have the firepower to test Djokovic, I think the Serb is looking bit too solid now, so I reckon Djokovic will either win in 4 sets or in (competitive) straight sets.  In the womens' Stevens and Keys are the obvious favourites to win their matches, though we have had a few surprises so far in the womens' draw - out of the 2 I would say Keys is more vulnerable, not just because she's playing Putin(seva) but she can be a bit inconsistent.

Back to Nadal's half. Schwartzman has done fantastically well, and its great for Argentina to have 2 players in the quarters in a slam where they have underperformed of late, but I just cannot see him stopping Nadal. He will give a good account of himself and it won't be a Gasquet style thrashing, but I think we're looking at a 7-5 6-3 6-2 type score for Nadal. Del Potro has a commanding head-to-head against Cilic, though they haven't played so much on clay - I will go for Del Potro in 4 sets - he looks that bit more clinical on the big points than the Croat at the moment in my opinion. Del Potro vs Nadal semi-final could *potentially* be one to watch - I think Del Potro could push Nadal, even to 5 sets, but its a brave man to think he'll go as far as beating him on clay.


Last edited by MrInvisible on Tue 05 Jun 2018, 1:16 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Further comment about other half of draw.)

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Post by sirfredperry Tue 05 Jun 2018, 3:08 pm

The long matches finally put paid to Zverev who goes out in straights after being hampered by injury.
A pity, as there were signs early on that it could have been a classic. Thiem was tremendous throughout and was remarkably UE-free despite playing aggressively. Keys thru in her quarter final.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 05 Jun 2018, 3:11 pm

Sad that injury played such a big part in it but even if both had been fit I'd still have fancied Thiem to come through in the end. I just feel he is the more polished player on clay and now has that bit more experience. Zverev I feel is still not quite ready for slam finals.
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Post by sirfredperry Tue 05 Jun 2018, 3:30 pm

Worth checking out Cecchinato. He's just taken the first set 6-3 against Djoko who looks to be suffering from a neck problem.

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Post by MrInvisible Tue 05 Jun 2018, 3:42 pm

Getting serious now, Cecchinato now a break up in 2nd set. The Italian beat Carreno Busta and Goffin back to back so is clearly in dangerous form. If Djokovic is going to win this match he's going to have to do it the hard way.

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Post by slashermcguirk Tue 05 Jun 2018, 3:51 pm

not watching but djokovic down a set and a break against this unknown Italian. What is he playing at?? Is your man playing lights out or is this back to the Djokovic drivel of pre - Rome??

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:36 pm

Cecchinato wins the second set in the breaker, what's Djokovic got left

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Post by slashermcguirk Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:38 pm

Djokovic two sets down to a player ranked 75 in the world...........just when you think Novak is starting to show some decent form and results over the past few weeks and now this. Just so frustrating at as a supporter. On the one hand I would have taken QF at the start of the tournament but to get the worst ranked player in the QF and then this, so so poor

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:39 pm

slashermcguirk wrote:not watching but djokovic down a set and a break against this unknown Italian. What is he playing at?? Is your man playing lights out or is this back to the Djokovic drivel of pre - Rome??

Cecchinato is in the form of his life to be very fair to him and will now break into the top 50 in the world. Djokovic is certainly not in the form of his life - quite the opposite and the Italian goes two sets up winning the second set tie-break. Novak is very stop start. Some great stuff and some poor stuff. He also doesn't seem to be in control of matches as he always seemed to be. Still not the Novak of old by a long way but it is an improvement of a month or two ago. But don't count Novak out. If he wins this third set I see him perhaps still winning it.
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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Tue 05 Jun 2018, 4:41 pm

Zverev needs to be more aggressive in the early rounds, he basically ran up needless mileage in his legs against guys he should be brushing aside.

If it's Nadal-Thiem in the final should be a good match, IIRC Thiem has 3 wins over Nadal on clay

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Post by Henman Bill Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:34 pm

I can honestly say I had never heard of Marco Cecchinato until about 15 minutes ago. I am sure there are a lot of people googling him right now to find out who he is.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:40 pm

Cecchinato wins in four sets in a great match and a cliff-hanger of a fourth set tie-breaker. It sums up where Novak is just now that he led 4-1 in the fourth set but let it slip. However, full credit to Cecchinato for the shots he pulled off when he looked out on his feet. Unbelievably, from nowhere he is a slam semi-finalist.

For Novak he will rule missed chances and throwing away the fourth set. However, he seemed to be enjoying the occasion and being back competing so this may conversely help him move to the next level of returning to his best.
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Post by MrInvisible Tue 05 Jun 2018, 6:42 pm

Just come in from work to see the 4th set tie-break between Cecchinato and Djokovic. Don't know where to start! Firstly, what a tie-break - one of the most dramatic tie-breaks I've seen for a long while - lots of ebbs and flows and shifts in momentum - some brilliant tennis, but interspersed with a couple of wild errors from Djokovic at the worst possible moment, including the one where he ballooned the ball into the stands at set point.

Very uplifting to see the reaction from Cecchinato and his entourage at the end, some of whom were in tears - he's not won the title (and its a long shot for him to do so) but it reminds me of seeing Kuerten at French Open or Sharapova winning Wimbledon for the 1st time.

On Djokovic, being brutally frank, even if he'd won this match it was unlikely he'd have gone on to win the whole thing - his level wasn't high enough, he would either have been finished off by Thiem or lost badly to Nadal in the final. Still, considering where he's been with injury, he's finally shown signs of getting reasonably near to decent form in this tournament.

Massive opportunity for Thiem now - assuming he can reach the final its a great opening for him - even if he loses to Nadal reaching a slam final will be great for his development as a player and I think it will spur him on to winning it in the future.

Cecchinato, even if he loses to Thiem, has shown enough here and with his win in Bucharest earlier, that he should become a regular elite claycourter, winning minor titles, and reaching the latter stages of the bigger tournaments on a more regular basis.

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Post by No name Bertie Tue 05 Jun 2018, 7:19 pm

The only thing that matters at this stage with regard to Djokovic is that he is completely over the elbow injury.  As far as I can tell - he is.  He has had small injuries to other parts of his body due to the lack of match and tournament fitness having been out of the game so long.

At some point we need to judge what is the best level this post-30 Djokovic is going to be.  There is some suggestion he has changed a few things in his game, especially in his serving, that seem to be perhaps precautionary measures to prevent a final major injury.  

As far as I can tell there has been some aging of his body (chronic downgrading of aspects of his musculoskeletal system) that he is not ever going to "recover" from.  As the body ages there is a loss in flexibility - and Djokovic especially relied on his above normal flexibility when he was at the peak of his game. However, several observers of his present game are saying it is more an issue of lacking power in his serving and ground strokes.
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Post by CaledonianCraig Tue 05 Jun 2018, 7:31 pm

No I would say it is far more mental and confidence-based. He was looking set to win the fourth set when leading 4-1 but his intensity levels dipped. In the tie-break he missed three relative sitters from mid-court Central positions. He is losing points he used to win and that alone will play on his mind and confidence.
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Post by sirfredperry Wed 06 Jun 2018, 8:22 am

Quite agree about the drama of the fourth-set tiebreak. Absolutely thrilling. Djoko had points for 5-1 in that fourth set and also had an easy put away in the tiebreak which would have given him the set.
A disappointed Djoko said immediately afterwards that he was not sure about Wimbledon. Probably in a few days he will have had time to digest the defeat and turn his attention to the grass.
As has been said above, Thiem now has a great chance. I was very impressed with him in the Zverev match.
As for today I'm taking delpo to see off Cilic. The Argentinian is 10-2 against Marin. Couple of good matches, on paper, in the women's today - three GS champions plus the world number one. I'm going for Mug and Halep to come through.

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Post by lags72 Wed 06 Jun 2018, 9:21 am

I couldn’t watch the match itself but even on live text it sounded a VERY dramatic tie-breaker. Deserved congrats to Cecchinato !

I do think there is a risk of over-analysing this loss by Djokovic. Sure, it was a big upset. Sure, he would have pulled through a tough test like that in his better days (of course at his absolute best he wouldn’t have allowed himself to drop the opening two sets in the first place !). But the fact is he is still trying to get back to full match fitness and the intense heat of top-level competition that characterises the Slams. Not everyone can expect to be out of the game for several months and then simply win the first Slam they play on their return ..... it’s just not normal.

And as for the view that Novak shouldn’t be losing to guys ranked 75 .... well again .... no, he shouldn’t and we know that. BUT here’s a thought : if even Federer and Nadal can go out in the early rounds of a Slam - and to players ranked outside the top 100 -  then there’s no reason why it cannot happen to Novak too ; no reason at all - and no shame in it either. He has no divine right to win every match.

Stuff happens in tennis, just as it does in every sport. When all said & done, there will always be an element of unpredictability. Indeed there absolutely has to be - or we would no longer watch.

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 06 Jun 2018, 12:18 pm

Other news: Top seed Heather Watson was knocked out of the Surbiton grass-court tournament by fellow Briton Gabriella Taylor, ranked 104 places below her, losing 3-6 6-4 6-3.

Checking the rankings Britain has two new women in the top 200, Gabriella Taylor (aged 20) at #184 and Katie Boulter (aged 21) ranked #163.

Just outside the top 200 we have Harriet Dart (Age 21) at #203, Katy Dunne (Age 23) at #212 & Katie Swan (Age 19) #237. Laura Robson (aged 24) is outside the top 300 and without a coach for two years. At 19 she reached a ranking of #27.
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Post by newballs Wed 06 Jun 2018, 2:17 pm

Sharapova is getting a free tennis lesson here courtesy of Muguruza. The only reason she got to play today is because her dear friend Serena let her.


She is being outplayed in every department and having her lack of footwork clearly exposed. Time for her to realise she's yesterday's player and move on.

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Post by MrInvisible Wed 06 Jun 2018, 2:58 pm

@newballs: I had the misfortune of watching Muguruza v Sharapova, a v disappointing contest - I think Maria's *3* double faults in the 1st game set the scene. I still can't work out how Sharapova won a title at Roland Garros with her rigid flat hitting and poor movement. Muguruza though looked good, and ominously looks like she can go up another gear or two.

By contrast, the Halep v Kerber match has a lot more to offer spectators - good contrast in styles and some v enjoyable rallies. Halep currently a break up in 3rd set but Kerber threatening to break back, putting the Halep serve under a lot of pressure.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:01 pm

Diego Schwartzman wins first set against Nadal

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:10 pm

I was actually there the day Sharapova won the French Open in 2012. Accurate, power baseline hitting and consistency. Won comfortably - it may have help that Serena Williams and Azarenka suffered shock early exits of course, and Errani was the finalist.


Last edited by Henman Bill on Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:13 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:12 pm

Interesting that Schwartzman had set point, and then missed his first serve, and after that it was Schwartzman himself who stopped the play because of someone in the crowd...thus, according to the commentator, winning himself another first serve which he used to win the set. Could have even been deliberate gamesmanship since he was the one that stopped the play. But perhaps a bit cynical and impossible to say.

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Post by MrInvisible Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:18 pm

@HenmanBill, to be fair to Schwartzman on that set point, it wasn't just a regular disturbance from the crowd, someone had collapsed, with quite a crowd gathered around and it was taking a lot longer than usual for the medical staff to arrive. To be honest the momentum was with Schwartzman more up to that point and as the server he would have been more unsettled by it arguably.

In any case, whilst I do think Nadal will turn this around and win the match, if you just look at the statistics Schwartzman was clearly the superior player in the 1st set.

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:21 pm

Thought Rafa looked a little flat in that first set and then see that he's had to have his right arm strapped up. Long way to go, though, for Schwartzman.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:28 pm

Nadal surely huge favourite at one set down -assuming the second set is still on serve.

I believe Nadal won last year without dropping a set, and also in 2016 he withdrew. Therefore I think 2015 when he lost to Djokovic in straight sets would be the last time he lost a set here let alone three.

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Post by Henman Bill Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:30 pm

OK look like my assumption that the 2nd set is still on serve was not a good one.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:32 pm

To be brutally honest Nadal hasn't been anywhere near his best thus far in the years French open. It's like he's been jaded or his age is catching up with him. His performances at Monaco and Barcelona seemed to be at his peak. Since then he's fallen back a bit

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 06 Jun 2018, 4:46 pm

Rain break gives Rafa some respite. I'm sure he'll be hoping for a long break. Will his injury ease and will a stoppage dampen Schwartzman's fire?

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Post by lags72 Wed 06 Jun 2018, 6:08 pm

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:To be brutally honest Nadal hasn't been anywhere near his best thus far in the years French open. It's like he's been jaded or his age is catching up with him. His performances at Monaco and Barcelona seemed to be at his peak. Since then he's fallen back a bit

Seriously ...... ? Headscratch

I have to say, I honestly think he has, until today, looked absolutely awesome and near-faultless here at this year’s RG. Brushing aside most opponents with consummate ease, and competently resisting the (few) tougher challenges that he has faced.

And such, I believe, has been the view of all the pundits and ex-player commentators I have heard.

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Post by sirfredperry Wed 06 Jun 2018, 6:11 pm

Another rain break with Rafa just two points from the second set. Forecast a bit dodgy for the rest of the day so there's a chance this won't finish today.

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Post by No name Bertie Wed 06 Jun 2018, 8:43 pm

It's well known in damp conditions on clay, Nadal can be beaten - because the ball gets wet and he can no longer get the top spin on the ball, so his biggest weapon is reduced. I wonder if that played a part in todays match against Schwartzman. The only issue is that the damp conditions invariably lead to the match being suspended and then continued in drier conditions - when Nadal can re-employ his weapons and go on to win the match,
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Post by sirfredperry Thu 07 Jun 2018, 8:28 am

THURSDAY: Rafa to come thru in four while I'm taking Mug to beat Halep. The other women's semi? Too close to call.

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Post by sirfredperry Thu 07 Jun 2018, 12:15 pm

Rafa two sets to one up and a break up in the fourth. Completely different match today, with Rafa back in full RG mode. He's unbeatable in this mood.
Delpo took opening set v Cilic but the Croatian now serving for the second set. Could be a longy.

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Post by lags72 Thu 07 Jun 2018, 1:34 pm

Little surprise that Rafa saw off Schwartzman in four (as predicted above by sfp) - and pretty swiftly after the resumption today.

Would have very likely fought back anyway, but he does seem to have a good relationship with the rain gods. Rain provided a timely respite for him in Rome too, when Zverev was looking strong but then was not as quick as Rafa to get things going again once the match re-started.

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Post by sirfredperry Thu 07 Jun 2018, 3:30 pm

Delpo thru to face Rafa but can see little to stop the Spaniard taking the title. Devastating stuff today, with tremendous defence as well as attack.
  Cilic for the umpteenth time chucked away a good position. He does this far too often (nerves? lack of belief?).

LATER: Halep has just beaten Mug in straights, after the Spaniard led 4-2 in the second set and had multiple break-back points at 4-4.

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Post by MrInvisible Thu 07 Jun 2018, 3:59 pm

According to the BBC text commentary the Halep v Muguruza match had some v high quality tennis in, and the Romanian did well fending off the resurgent Muguruza in 2nd set.

No disrespect to Stephens or Keys but Halep is a big favourite with the crowd and there will be a lot of goodwill towards her winning Roland Garros amongst a large part of the tennis public - reminds me of the support for Clijsters and Novotna breaking their slam duck.

You would think that Stephens will be a bit too steady for the talented but less consistent Keys. Halep will probably hope the latter wins, as Stephens is likely to prove the stronger mentally in the final out of the 2.

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 07 Jun 2018, 4:37 pm

Really hoping that Halep finally gets that elusive major. She should really already have 3, but I feel once she gets her first she could quickly become a serial major winner

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Post by Nathaniel Jacobs Thu 07 Jun 2018, 4:38 pm

Credit to Nadal really went full on beastmode, a level no one can match on the clay

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Post by sirfredperry Thu 07 Jun 2018, 6:35 pm

Stephens thru after error-strewn match from Keys. Stephens looks quite effortless at times and is clearly talented. She's already won a slam and may be able to use this against Slam-less but determined Halep.
Rafa will no doubt pepper the delpo backhand in the semi-final. I think delpo has got to play big and hit inside out forehands and run round everything to have any chance. Surely Cecchinato will find Thiem too much? But who knows. I'm still going for a Rafa-Thiem final.

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Post by CaledonianCraig Thu 07 Jun 2018, 7:36 pm

Yes sfp I have to agree with your assessment. For me it will be a Nadal V Thiem final. Del Potro will just find Nadal far too good on clay for him. Cecchinato, you feel, has gone as far as he can here and the fresher Thiem and more experience will see him through in 3 or 4 sets.
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Post by naxroy Thu 07 Jun 2018, 10:58 pm

lags72 wrote:Little surprise that Rafa saw off Schwartzman in four (as predicted above by sfp)  - and pretty swiftly after the resumption today.

Would have very likely fought back anyway, but he does seem to have a good relationship with the rain gods. Rain provided a timely respite for him in Rome too, when Zverev was looking strong but then was not as quick as Rafa to get things going again once the match re-started.


rain causes the problem and rain solves it

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