Ireland RWC Likely Squad

So, with the year done, we have learned alot about the expected squad. Pre 6 nations, there were major questions around backup 2, 3, 7, 9, 10 and 15. I believe now we are in a strong position with all except 9 and 10. If we bring the same 17/14 RWC squad split as 2015, this is the squad we will bring. Players in brackets are those who will step in, in the case of injury. November except for the NZ game has to be entirely about playing a full strenght team while testing Cooney, Carbery and Byrne. We could also do with one other outside back being further tested.

TH (2+1 can play both sides)
World class - Furlong
International class - Ryan, Porter
Assessment - We are now well covered at TH, Porter can cover both sides

Hooker (3)
International class - Best, Cronin, Scannell, (Herring)
Assessment - We are now well covered at Hooker

LH (2)
International class - McGrath, Healy (Moore/Kilcoyne)
Assessment - We are now well covered at LH

Lock (4, including backrow cover)
International class - Ryan, Henderson, Toner (Dillane/Roux)
Exciting prospect - Beirne
Assessment - We are now well covered at Lock

Flankers (4, including 8 cover)
World class - POM
International class - Leavy, SOB, Murphy (VDF, Ruddock, Conan, TOD)
Assessment - Besides POM and Leavy, it all depends on injuries and form, Murphy's flexability might win it for him

No. 8 (1)
International class - Stander
Assessment - Very strong, with multiple flankers also able to play there

Scrumhalf (2+1 can play OH)
World class - Murray
International class - Marmion, Cooney (McGrath)
Assessment - big drop off after Murray. Cooney needs gametime most of any irish squad player

Flyhalf (2)
World class - Sexton
International Class - Carberry (Byrne)
Assessment - Sexton staying fit is essential to winning, the drop off after that is huge.

Centers (4)
International class - Ringrose, Henshaw, Aki, Farrell (Scannell/McCloskey)
Assessment - RWC players pick themselves, drop off after that

Wings (3)
International class - Stockdale, Earls, Conway (McFadden, Byrne, Sweetnam)
Assessment - RWC players pick themselves, drop off after that

Fullback (1+1 can play wing)
International class - Kearney, Larmour (Zebo, TOH)
Assessment - We are now well covered at 15

There needs to be three LHs, three hookers and three THs. Porter might have played LH in his past but isn't playing there now.
http://www.the42.ie/tom-court-scrum-2318191-Sep2015/

The Great Aukster wrote:There needs to be three LHs, three hookers and three THs. Porter might have played LH in his past but isn't playing there now.
http://www.the42.ie/tom-court-scrum-2318191-Sep2015/

Its an interesting article, but if you look at the RWC squads, of the tier 1 nations, 3 brought 6 props (Scotland/NZ/Italy, the others brought 5. I believe we will bring 5, with Porter on the bench as LH for all smaller games and us flying in a dedicated LH for any big games if someone is injured.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup_squads

There are a few players who could be bolters for the squad depending on injuries. Time is running out but you'd think one or two players will emerge as contenders next season. There are a few of them about.


I think a few of those in the squad in Australia are down the pecking order. The likes of Jordi Murphy, Conan, Herring, Roux and Ross Byrne wouldn't make a full strength squad of 32.


I think Jack McGrath will need to improve next season. There are also slight question marks over Best and Kearney. They're not spring chickens anymore.

We need another 8. Deegan or Doris look the 2 most likely to pass out Conan.

I've just noticed that there is sad deterioration of O's in the Ireland squad.

What a sad era for Irish rugby to see the drying up of the POCs, the ROGs, the BODs and the ZebO's

Will they ever recover the numbers sufficiently to escape complete extinction? Damn you, Foreign Imports!!!!

Although the FOX guy did keep calling Stander "StO'nder" - so the future might be brighter than I think.

SecretFly wrote:I've just noticed that there is sad deterioration of O's in the Ireland squad.

What a sad era for Irish rugby to see the drying up of the POCs, the ROGs, the BODs and the ZebO's  

Will they ever recover the numbers sufficiently to escape complete extinction?  Damn you, Foreign Imports!!!!

Although the FOX guy did keep calling Stander "StO'nder" - so the future might be brighter than I think.

I can't help pronouncing his name as https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Stauner%20(stawner)&amp=true

Maybe that's what he meant!

wolfball wrote:

The Great Aukster wrote:There needs to be three LHs, three hookers and three THs. Porter might have played LH in his past but isn't playing there now.
http://www.the42.ie/tom-court-scrum-2318191-Sep2015/

Its an interesting article, but if you look at the RWC squads, of the tier 1 nations, 3 brought 6 props (Scotland/NZ/Italy, the others brought 5. I believe we will bring 5, with Porter on the bench as LH for all smaller games and us flying in a dedicated LH for any big games if someone is injured.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugby_World_Cup_squads

Based on those squads, all the tier 1 nations brought 5 props and only two nations brought 6 props - USA and Namibia, Japan brought 4!

The question is what is the most sensible number to bring?
26 players were replaced during the tournament, 9 of whom were props (35%). A further 7 were other forwards and 10 were backs. There are 4 props involved in the game compared to usually 9 other forwards and up to 10 backs. These figures indicate that the prop position is more than twice as likely to require a replacement than any other position on the field.

The starting props normally get 3/4 of the game and the bench props get 1/4 - in every game. If Porter gets in the squad as a TH then Healy and McGrath are both involved. If Porter gets on the bench as 'LH cover' he is unlikely to start and McGrath or Healy may still end up with 60 minutes gametime.

Paradoxically it is because the Irish props are good that they should be managed and rested whenever possible for the big games where they can have most impact. By reducing their pool gametime they are going to be fresher and less likely to get injured during the campaign. Taking Kilcoyne or James Cronin as 3rd LH provides respite for Healy and McGrath and allows Porter to push Ryan and Furlong for a TH spot. World Rugby increased the number in the RWC squad from 30 to 31 to acknowledge that the prop position is now too specialised to have a floater. Ireland have been guilty in the past of taking squad players as 'break glass' options and then not using them in any meaningful capacity. If six props were chosen they certainly would all be used during the tournament, and that would be more logical than taking an extra back "just in case".

Paul Boyle could be an outside bet. 21 years old, regular starter for Connacht, can play across the backrow and has possibly been Connacht's best player so far. He looks physical enough too. Also, he seems to be level headed and captained the Ireland under 20s last year. Joe likes those level headed players.


Any other stand outside this season?

profitius wrote:Paul Boyle could be an outside bet. 21 years old, regular starter for Connacht, can play across the backrow and has possibly been Connacht's best player so far. He looks physical enough too. Also, he seems to be level headed and captained the Ireland under 20s last year. Joe likes those level headed players.


Any other stand outside this season?

Agreed. Like the look of Boyle and his team mate, Tom Farrell in midfield.

profitius wrote:
Any other stand outside this season?

Really impressed by Tom Farrell and Sean O'Brien, Ultan Dillan looks on top form as well. Connacht are playing great rugby.

Billy Burns is still finding his feet at Ulster but I think he could be an option at 10. Carbury will be there but he has a lot of learning to do as a starting 10 from his performances so far for Munster, so another experienced 10 would strengthen the squad.

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:
Any other stand outside this season?

Really impressed by Tom Farrell and Sean O'Brien, Ultan Dillan looks on top form as well. Connacht are playing great rugby.

Billy Burns is still finding his feet at Ulster but I think he could be an option at 10. Carbury will be there but he has a lot of learning to do as a starting 10 from his performances so far for Munster, so another experienced 10 would strengthen the squad.

....................coach.

Munster coach...too often now doing the public: "I blame me", taking-it-on-the-chin, hero stuff. If you keep blaming yourself for implosions then you might, you just might, be on to something.
Didn't see the latest game but I'd assume Munster is not set up to be sharp enough instinctively to gain from Carbury's more instinctive 10ism than an old style stodgy predictable 10er.

Flankers (4, including 8 cover)
World class - POM
International class - Leavy, SOB, Murphy (VDF, Ruddock, Conan, TOD)
Assessment - Besides POM and Leavy, it all depends on injuries and form, Murphy's flexability might win it for him

No. 8 (1)
International class - Stander
Assessment - Very strong, with multiple flankers also able to play there


POM isn't world class at all nor is Stander at 8. Based on the last 12 months Leavy is a better player than POM and based on the last 5 years so is SOB.

SecretFly wrote:

rodders wrote:

profitius wrote:
Any other stand outside this season?

Really impressed by Tom Farrell and Sean O'Brien, Ultan Dillan looks on top form as well. Connacht are playing great rugby.

Billy Burns is still finding his feet at Ulster but I think he could be an option at 10. Carbury will be there but he has a lot of learning to do as a starting 10 from his performances so far for Munster, so another experienced 10 would strengthen the squad.

....................coach.  

Munster coach...too often now doing the public: "I blame me", taking-it-on-the-chin, hero stuff.  If you keep blaming yourself for implosions then you might, you just might, be on to something.
Didn't see the latest game but I'd assume Munster is not set up to be sharp enough instinctively to gain from Carbury's more instinctive 10ism than an old style stodgy predictable 10er.

Munster have looked dreadful so far too be honest, so its difficult to look good. Beirne has struggled as well.

On paper they've a solid enough squad on paper but of the provinces so far they've made the worst start to the season.

I think Erasmus needs to take a lot of credit for the improvement they showed in the last couple of season and maybe standards have slipped.

By contrast Leinster and Connacht really playing very well with Ulster somewhere in between.

Of course it's early in the season and it's a Big year ahead for many players who will be asked to perform on a triple level (Pro14, Europe, International).

Now Munster have always been a wily old side if not always up to a standard they demand of themselves.  But history has taught us that they know a lot about pacing a season - a lazy team, if you like, that just does enough to get there and then explodes into important massive games to increase their odds incrementally through a year.

There is a LOT riding on this year and maybe Munster players are just timing their form more miserly and wisely than others.

An out half who can tackle and kick would be useful.


Guns. Don’t you worry about our backrowers they’ll be first choice come nov and probably for the wc.

Looks like Zebo is in a rich vein of form, 5 tries for Racing this season so far.

I suspect Joe to stick with the home base players but Zebo and Ryan are pushing hard for inclusion.

Geen sport voor watjes wrote:An out half who can tackle and kick would be useful.


Guns. Don’t you worry about our backrowers they’ll be first choice come nov and probably for the wc.

Im definitely not worried about our back row, we have the best backrow starters and reserves in world rugby and that includes POM. I think world class is a stretch for him though.

rodders wrote:Looks like Zebo is in a rich vein of form, 5 tries for Racing this season so far.

I suspect Joe to stick with the home base players but Zebo and Ryan are pushing hard for inclusion.

Yeah he is going well. I can see Zebo getting a call up if there are injuries, Ryan probably less so but you never know.

Yeah you wouldn’t want a free scoring full back. It could unsettle the squad. I watched the racing game st the weekend and it was actually his Défense that was most impressive rather than the try scoring. You know tackling try scoring and such.

Just to add. Rudders we might be shoite but we will still beat you at the weekend with an academy team. Cos you just aren’t good enough. And if we lose it will be because of the ref.

Glad to see the young hope, Zebo, finally getting his chance to improve his game away in Racing. He might even reach "International class" in time for the WC. But unfortunately, Ireland only have "World Class" players in the squad now so it's always going to be an uphill task for a ruck-resourcing apostate.

Zebo is good alright but you would swear the world was going to cave in based on the kurfuffle around his departure. The reality is he wasnt really missed at all. Would be a good addition to the squad though

Forget about Zebo. He is gone so from an Ireland context he is a non story. We have talented back 3 players now as shown by remembering that Dave Kearney was a regular starter a few years ago.

Look, I know everyone is entitled to a private life and secrecy and all...but what the hell is the big espionage drama around Murray's top secret injury?  
"Oh we can't say."  "Oh he don't want us to tell."  I think even a 606 poster muttered a month or two ago that he had an idea what the detail was but.....................but................... official secrets act forbids him from telling.

If it's a neck injury, it's a neck injury.  Players and coaches the world over will have an idea about the kinds of neck injuries that happen, so no need for cover-ups in that department.  I mean, not saying what the injury specifically is, is hardly going to give Munster or Ireland any strategic benefits when/if he eventually does get back....  "Oh we know what his specific scientific neck injury was so we'll ask our players to rough him up - legally - in that specific area"

So maybe the 'neck' injury is just a smokescreen for something entirely different.

Why so many affected nods and winks and 'classified-info' stamps?

"We don't know, FLY...it's CLASSIFIED!  Geddih!"

I don't think there is anything to get excited about re Murrays injury. I think that its just symptomatic of a post GDPR era where people are more aware of their privacy rights. Murray isn't the first to do this with respect to injuries.

However, there is a phenomenon called the Barbara Streisand phenomenon where by invoking your rights can often only serve to draw more attention to what you may be hiding and that seems to be the case for Murray in this instance. The IRFU are reportedly going to make him the highest paid player in Ireland, given they have a legal basis to know the details of his injury I doubt they would do that it if it was career threatening.

I don't mind not knowing. His private life is his own. It's just the silly orchestrated drama around it whereby his coach has to come out and say he's been asked not to give any detail on the injury. For sure there are journalists around who already know the detail but I'd guess even some of them that do will stretch out the pretend-ignorance and head-scratching intrigue to sell their paragraphs.

Interesting to see how the form of some key players.


The half backs are usually the most important, form wise. Cooney has started where he left off last season. Marmion also look back to his best.


Carbery was outstanding last weekend. He got 6 out of 7 kicks (hit the post) and none were easy. He also scored a try and helped set up some with superb passing and kicking. His area of weakness are clearance kicks. They can be a little aimless at times but the more he plays 10 the better he'll get at the nitty gritty parts. His tackling can also improve.


Jack Carty is playing well for Connacht and Burns is playing well from Ulster from what I've seen.


Connachts Tom Farrell is continuing to perform well. Will Schmidt pick him though? Rory Scannell is linking up with Carbery. He is a good player but I think is about 5% off Ireland level.


The wing is very competitive. Gilroy is in great form as is Sweetnam.


Fullback is also up for grabs. Will Rob Kearney keep his spot? It would be a shock if he didn't however form wise he'd hardly make the top 10 fullbacks. I defended his place in the side last season but it's time to move on.  Addison looks quality for Ulster and is Irish qualified through his mother. England might have made a mistake in not capping him. Conway has started the season well as has Larmour. No point talking about Tiernan O'Halloran as Schmidt doesn't seem to be a fan.


Of the forwards, I don't see much change. Back up hooker remains to be seen. Can someone challenge Best? Tadhg Beirne might come into the mix somewhere. Van Der Flier is back and playing well. SOB is also back and I expect him to come straight back into the side.  


Of the second rows, Thornbury was playing well for Connacht but got injured. He was a dark horse. Dillane seems to have falling down the pecking order. That means we're likely to see Quinn Roux again.

Yeah its obvious that Carbery going to Munster was a good move. Glad he did. Hope he comes back to Leinster at some point though. Who knows maybe he wont.