Dragons Season Thread - 2018/19 - aka Year 2 of the 3 Year Plan

[Guest]

First topic message reminder :

So we made it to the end of the 2017/18 season.  We've seen/endured the first year of Bernard Jackman's plan.  I think most of us have been through a rollercoaster of emotions, similar to previous seasons but perhaps even more so this season given the new injection of life and investment into the Dragons.  First there was the hope - the new coaches, some new players, the new pitch, new chairman, new cash injection.  Then we started to stumble - it's all down to the new coach and getting used to the new systems, we said.  Then came the face plant and the realisation that this trend was going to carry on for the whole season - a couple of wins in the league, a few in Europe, a lot of spankings, not many losing bonus points.  Very poor return.  The hope turned to despair and BJ's methods were being questioned.  Then the hope comes again with the announcement of new signings ('stellar' signings, compared to previous years!) and the assurance that the 1st year of the plan was always going to be difficult and that year 2 would be the one to judge BJ on.....  

So.......on to year 2 (2018/19).  Where are we?  What are our expectations (realistically)?  What's the best team we can put out on paper and how competitive will it be?  For a number of years we've been stuffed in the league so seem to try to get some solace from a decent showing in the Euro 2nd tier comp.  However, should we forget about Europe and try to put all of our focus on the league?  I think so.

Transfers - we've lost more than we've gained, although the quality of the transfers in could/should be better than those leaving.  But I'm worried we'll be thin on the ground when the inevitable injuries hit.

Players In: = 14
Jordan Williams from England Bristol Bears
Rhodri Williams from England Bristol Bears
Ross Moriarty from England Gloucester
Rhodri Davies from England Rotherham Titans
Richard Hibbard from England Gloucester
Huw Taylor from England Worcester Warriors
Josh Lewis from England Bath
Ryan Bevington from England Bristol Bears
Aaron Jarvis from France Clermont
Dafydd Howells from Wales Ospreys
Tiaan Loots from Wales RGC 1404
Jacob Botica from Wales RGC 1404
Rhys Lawrence from England Ealing Trailfinders
Brandon Nansen from France

Players Out: - =21
Sarel Pretorius to South Africa Southern Kings
Phil Price to Wales Scarlets
Scott Andrews to Wales Neath
Luke Garrett to Wales Neath
Adam Hughes retired
Pat Howard to England Ealing Trailfinders
Rhys Buckley to Wales Bargoed
Barney Nightingale to Wales Bargoed
Keagan Bale to Wales Bargoed
Angus O'Brien to Wales Scarlets
Nicky Thomas to Wales Scarlets (return from short-term loan)
Dorian Jones to France Angoulême
Charlie Davies to England Northampton Saints
Lloyd Lewis to Wales Pontypool
Sam Beard to New Zealand Canterbury
Sam Hobbs released
Thomas Davies released
Liam Belcher released
Ashley Sweet released
Robson Blake released
Carl Meyer released

I'll try to update the Ins and Outs as we go.

[Cardiff Dave]

Marvelous stone cladding btw. Very Jack and Vera.

[RiscaGame]

You just wait until we’ve beaten our Romanian invaders Dave and finally protected our castle. Then you will see the value of it

[Luckless Pedestrian]

21 - 0 at half time. Dreadful. No shape to us in attack either.

We have better players now, but as far as I can see there's been no corresponding improvement in performance / results.

I'm afraid Mr Jackman might be getting his P45 soon. Thanks for the recommendation, Warren.

[RiscaGame]

I don’t think we can/will sack him and he certainly won’t quit.

Even a lot of his most ardent backers are now losing faith in him. The only people who seem to be backing him, are members of the DOSC or work in Gaffacinos. I found one DOSC member doing it particularly strange, given he was generally perceived as being a fairly negative Dragons supporter previously

[Guest]

I really don't know what to think. You look at other clubs with more resources and better players and they often take a year or two for the coaches to bed in and make a difference (see Blues struggling when coaches have only stayed for only a year or so; Scarlets and Pivac, Glasgow and Rennie). When I say struggle, I mean relatively speaking of course. They've not sunk to our depths. So part of me thinks BJ is in a similar boat and needs the time that other coaches have been afforded before we talk about sacking. But part of me also thinks that, as LP alluded to above, we've got better players than last year so should see some signs by now. Not many sides get rid of such a number and bring in such a hoard of signings. That should be making some difference on the field. I know it takes time to gel new players in a squad but the fact that the 22 put out is almost always better this season than it was last season, but the results/performances are no different, does make me think that BJ is the part of the equation that's not working out.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

At the start of last season there was a distinct change in the way we were playing. We were looking to offload in the tackle and recycle as quickly as possible, and looked really good at times - away to Edinburgh and the Blues particularly. James Benjamin was made for that style of game. (Unfortunately this was undone by having a dud defence coach - see the second half of that Blues game). This, twinned with a really quite effective driving lineout should have stood us in good stead, but we've regressed. The players almost look like strangers when the ball goes wide now. Our skills coach who is now also attack / backs coach (I believe) is doing a bad job of it. Jackman is the lightning rod for criticism but it's a disappointing coaching team all round. Ceri Jones was doing okay with the pack but our set piece isn't what it was now either.

The players are all trying, but so they bloody should. A lot of it just seems aimless.

[Stone Motif]

He's a charlatan. Anyone could have rocked up banging on about strength and conditioning with the bunch of weak fatbodies that made up our squad last year. Defence is appalling, attack toothless and recruitment haphazard. He's not delivered success in any area of his responsibility.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I had such a sense of deja vu on Friday. There's no point anyone 'bringing their fire' if there's nothing to light.

[Cardiff Dave]

You just wait until we’ve beaten our Romanian invaders Dave and finally protected our castle. Then you will see the value of it

The miniature dragon above the doorway - did somebody get feet and inches mixed up a la Spinal Tap?

[LordDowlais]

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers, I even heard things being shouted from the stands.

At least try and get behind your team and players.

[Stone Motif]

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers, I even heard things being shouted from the stands.

At least try and get behind your team and players.

Nice try Andy, but his was a poor wind up when it went in the fail and it's a poor wind up now. Josh Lewis is a 26 year old who has been a full time professional for several years now. His performance, irrespective of the Snake O'il salesman in charge,was not good enough.

[LordDowlais]

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers, I even heard things being shouted from the stands.

At least try and get behind your team and players.

Nice try Andy, but his was a poor wind up when it went in the fail and it's a poor wind up now. Josh Lewis is a 26 year old who has been a full time professional for several years now. His performance, irrespective of the Snake O'il salesman in charge,was not good enough.

Here he is, the hypocrite keyboard warrior.

It does not matter how old they are, get behind them. I was watching the game on Friday, and you could see the players confidence dropping. Some of the fans on Friday night were embarrassing.

Would it hurt to encourage from the stands instead of criticising ?

[LordDowlais]

If there was anyone shouting abusive stuff from the stands, then that's not really on and it isn't helpful. From the time I've spent on the Hazell Terace, I can believe that there was stuff shouted. But I don't have a problem with the ironic cheers. If you mess up two kicks to the corner, having put the kickoff straight out, you can't be surprised if there's a reaction. The other thing I have to say, Dowlais, is that I'd value what you're saying if you'd suffered the kind of dross that Dragons supporters have had to suffer over the years. Forgive us if we're running out of patience.

Another thing: would you be as upset on Josh Lewis's behalf if he wasn't from Merthyr?

LP, if you really are that fed up, then why are you going to watch ?

If what you are saying is true, and people have had enough, then simply do not go and put yourself through it anymore. Unless it is a case that people want to spend their hard earned money just to go and spout their vitriol, then that's their choice, although that would say more about them than anything else.

Josh is a good kid, it's not because he is from Merthyr, I know his family and they are nice people, ironic cheers is one thing, shouting abuse from the stands is another, but as I said, that is more about the people paying their money than anything else.

Imagine if there was encouragement being shouted from the stands instead of negative comments, how much better that would be for the players.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

If there was anyone shouting abusive stuff from the stands, then that's not really on and it isn't helpful. (From the time I've spent on the Hazell Terace, I can believe that there was stuff shouted.) But I don't have a problem with the ironic cheers. If you mess up two kicks to the corner, having put the kickoff straight out, you can't be surprised if there's a reaction. It's not the first time he's done it either.

The other thing I have to say, Dowlais, is that I'd value what you're saying more if you'd suffered the kind of dross that Dragons supporters have had to suffer over the years. Forgive us if we're running out of patience.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Imagine if there was encouragement being shouted from the stands instead of negative comments, how much better that would be for the players.

There is encouragement being shouted from the stands. It's not an 'either / or' situation. Was there silence when we scored? We're desperate for the Dragons to win!

[LordDowlais]

Imagine if there was encouragement being shouted from the stands instead of negative comments, how much better that would be for the players.

There is encouragement being shouted from the stands. It's not an 'either / or' situation. Was there silence when we scored? We're desperate for the Dragons to win!

Believe it or not, that's what I would like as well, I want all Welsh rugby doing well and thriving. But at the moment, the regions, for me are leaving a lot to be desired.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

My issue is with you painting it as a black-and-white issue. Okay, there might have been some abuse, and I'm not saying it's desirable or acceptable, but surely you can empathise with long-suffering Dragons supporters? And we f*cking love it when we have something to cheer, which you're glossing over to focus on the negative.

[LordDowlais]

I'm not glossing over anything, please point out where I am doing this and I will retract it.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You're glossing over it here:

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers.

That wasn't 'all you heard' at all, was it?

[LordDowlais]

You're glossing over it here:

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers.

That wasn't 'all you heard' at all, was it?

That isn't me glossing over anything though, and no it is not the only thing I heard, if anything, I think you are glossing over things. All I am saying is, there was a more vocal than normal situation to the negativity on Friday night.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

You could have said that in the first place, Dowlais. It's never helpful to say stuff you don't mean.

[LordDowlais]

You could have said that in the first place, Dowlais. It's never helpful to say stuff you don't mean.

LP, you knew what I was going on about, it's just you being YOU about things, again. Whilst Friday night was not the worst I have ever heard, it was quite toxic.

I guess we will just have to disagree on the subject and leave it there.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

In response to you being YOU about things!

[Guest]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted. Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.

[Stone Motif]

I did not like the way the Dragons fans were getting on their players backs last Friday night, bad show from them.

What other options at 10 do Dragons have other than Josh Lewis at the moment ? The kid has been thrown in at the deep end, yet all I heard were boos and sarcastic cheers, I even heard things being shouted from the stands.

At least try and get behind your team and players.

Nice try Andy, but his was a poor wind up when it went in the fail and it's a poor wind up now. Josh Lewis is a 26 year old who has been a full time professional for several years now. His performance, irrespective of the Snake O'il salesman in charge,was not good enough.

Here he is, the hypocrite keyboard warrior.

It does not matter how old they are, get behind them. I was watching the game on Friday, and you could see the players confidence dropping. Some of the fans on Friday night were embarrassing.

Would it hurt to encourage from the stands instead of criticising ?

Righto Andy, let's hear you state for the record exactly what was shouted beyond a sarcastic and deserved 'get Tovey on'? Because if there was anything worse than that your fellow Fail writer missed it.

[munkian]

You just wait until we’ve beaten our Romanian invaders Dave and finally protected our castle. Then you will see the value of it

The miniature dragon above the doorway - did somebody get feet and inches mixed up a la Spinal Tap?

It looks like its one of the smaller 'superdragon' statues made and designed for a recurring charity event similar to the Wallace and Grommit trail in Bristol.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/news/superdragons/9853391.newport-superdragons-are-a-hit-again/

I think there's a much larger golden one in the entrance to the Bisley suite and a fair few more dotted around Newport.

They were auctioned for charity, made about £100 k

[RiscaGame]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

[Stone Motif]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

[Guest]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him! Just an annoyance with the system.

[Stone Motif]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him!  Just an annoyance with the system.

No worries, sorry but here's another online cretin spouting horsesh1t you may wish to avoid:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17001448.evans-can-be-a-long-term-option-for-dragons-at-lock-jackman/

[RiscaGame]

I really don’t get all this fuss about lineout calling nowadays.

Besides which, with two with Team Wales and Griffiths possibly out for a while, I don’t see the need to go on about it at the minute. He will surely be playing back row.

[Guest]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him!  Just an annoyance with the system.

No worries, sorry but here's another online cretin spouting horsesh1t you may wish to avoid:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17001448.evans-can-be-a-long-term-option-for-dragons-at-lock-jackman/

I was going to post the same article earlier but got side tracked!  I just can't see the logic in this.  The article even states how many appearances Evans has made in the back row.  200+ for the region under numerous head coaches.  All saw him as a backrower.  So I'd say that suggests his best positon is somewhere in the back row.  He's not going to grow any taller or get much beefier now in the twilight of his career.  I like him a lot.   Seems a good clubman and gives his all.  Seems to be a decent leader as he often gets the captaincy.  However, we need to be signing/playing international level locks as much as possible (pretty sure all other pro clubs look to do the same), but for me LE is not anywhere near that as a 2nd row.

[LordDowlais]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him!  Just an annoyance with the system.

No worries, sorry but here's another online cretin spouting horsesh1t you may wish to avoid:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17001448.evans-can-be-a-long-term-option-for-dragons-at-lock-jackman/

Forever the keyboard warrior.

[Stone Motif]

I really don’t get all this fuss about lineout calling nowadays.

Besides which, with two with Team Wales and Griffiths possibly out for a while, I don’t see the need to go on about it at the minute. He will surely be playing back row.

Exactly. The guy is on another planet.

[Stone Motif]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him!  Just an annoyance with the system.

No worries, sorry but here's another online cretin spouting horsesh1t you may wish to avoid:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17001448.evans-can-be-a-long-term-option-for-dragons-at-lock-jackman/

I was going to post the same article earlier but got side tracked!  I just can't see the logic in this.  The article even states how many appearances Evans has made in the back row.  200+ for the region under numerous head coaches.  All saw him as a backrower.  So I'd say that suggests his best positon is somewhere in the back row.  He's not going to grow any taller or get much beefier now in the twilight of his career.  I like him a lot.   Seems a good clubman and gives his all.  Seems to be a decent leader as he often gets the captaincy.  However, we need to be signing/playing international level locks as much as possible (pretty sure all other pro clubs look to do the same), but for me LE is not anywhere near that as a 2nd row.

Bernard O'Charlatan pretty much states in this article that second rows don't need to be athletic. Oh yes the do Bernard, especially if you want to get any sort of attack going. Out of his depth.

[Stone Motif]

I wish we couldn't see the posts of these people on ignore when they are quoted.  Makes a mockery of putting them on ignore.  

Precisely.

My bad, drives me nuts when Mikey's posts flash up - should have realised more people would have Andy on ignore.

Wasn't having a pop at people quoting him!  Just an annoyance with the system.

No worries, sorry but here's another online cretin spouting horsesh1t you may wish to avoid:

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17001448.evans-can-be-a-long-term-option-for-dragons-at-lock-jackman/

Forever the keyboard warrior.

I'd go and shout it at his pasty, bald, brainless head from the terrace but that would be wrong too.

Speaking of which I notice you haven't mentioned any details on the "toxic" stuff being chanted at our poor dabs on the field yet Andy? Are you going to qualify your earlier comments or not?

[Luckless Pedestrian]

That article really is something.


“We will have a look at the video and see what he needs to work on, but he is pretty keen to play there and with Cory gone for the next block (because of Wales duty) we need to have someone of his ability to lineout call,” said the former Ireland hooker.

No sh!t he's keen to play there, he knows he won't play in the back row when everyone's available!

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Also, this isn't actually a tackle from Lawes on Brown, is it?

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16996011.dragons-21-northampton-35-saints-too-strong-in-crunch-euro-clash/

[Stone Motif]

The ESPN site is playing up for me but I'm fairly certain Friday was our worst scrum performance this season. Nothing to do with having a back rower in the second, oh no

[Stone Motif]

Also, this isn't actually a tackle from Lawes on Brown, is it?

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16996011.dragons-21-northampton-35-saints-too-strong-in-crunch-euro-clash/

Bernard? Bernard? You know that sh1te you were just spouting about second rows and athleticism nowjest? Have a look at the guy knocking seven shades out of that tight head you only pick for his carrying in this photo and tell me what's different in terms of bodyshape between him and Lewis Evans.

[Stone Motif]

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/17005085.chris-kirwan-under-pressure-dragons-boss-jackman-desperately-needs-to-deliver-some-autumn-cheer/

Andy Dowellais - if you're lurking here - this is how you write a rugby article.

[RiscaGame]

It is a brilliant article, but then Kirwan's output always is good. The only thing I possibly took issue with, was when he said that Rhodri and Jordan Williams haven't hit their straps yet. This I blame solely on Jackman, who is not utilising his backline correctly.

He is spot on about what we should expect in the next three games and what he has written about Tovey is bang on too.

[RiscaGame]

It will also be brilliant to hopefully see Tovey go through 1000 points for the Region too. I didn't think his record would be caught for a long time anyway, but him having the chance to add to it again will make it even more unlikely.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I like the implication too that Tovey should have been a target once it was known he was leaving Edinburgh.

'Their lack of an experienced 10 has been blindingly clear for several seasons now and last summer Bernard Jackman merely added two more players of potential in Josh Lewis and Jacob Botica after being unable to snap up an established game manager.'

Here was a home-grown established game manager becoming available and Jackman seemingly missed it. Better late than never though.

[RiscaGame]

I suppose it could be said that Jackman was under the impression that Tovey didn't want to play pro rugby, due to the interview Tovey gave. I am of the opinion that he would never have turned down his home pro team though and it was indeed an opportunity missed.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ah, I didn't read that interview. They might have enquired though.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

I guess they were expecting Henson to be available.

[Luckless Pedestrian]

Ulster: M Lowry; R Baloucoune, W Addison, S McCloskey, H Speight; J McPhillips, D Shanahan; E O’Sullivan, R Best (captain), M Moore, I Henderson, K Treadwell, S Reidy, J Murphy, M Coetzee. Replacements: R Herring, A Warwick, T O’Toole, A O’Connor, G Jones, J Stewart, A Kernohan, C Gilroy.

Dragons: J Williams, D Howells, A Warren, J Sage, W Talbot-Davies, J Tovey, R Williams, B Harris, R Hibbard, L Fairbrother, M Screech, L Evans, H Taylor, N Cudd, H Keddie. Replacements: R Lawrence, A Jarvis, R Bevington, J Davies, T Basham, T Knoyle, J Dixon, Z Kirchner.

Referee: Marius Mitrea (Italy)

[munkian]

Mitrea

[RiscaGame]

Ah, I didn't read that interview. They might have enquired though.

Took a while to find ha. Clearly there was no offer from Dragons though.

https://www.southwalesargus.co.uk/sport/16175042.Tovey_thinking_about_life_out_of_rugby_bubble_after_signing_for_Keys/

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