Dragons vs Benetton Treviso

Match thread.

Massive game for Jackman and the Dragons, lose this and they go to the Kings in SA who were pretty good last night, lose that and it's bye bye Jackman I would think.

Kings come to us for the next game.

Pretty good start, but then a driving lineout undoes us again.

I am unable to watch and there isn't much coming via twitter really, other than Nansen and Hibbard made a pair of hits??

Two missed lineouts is pretty frustrating. I do think that is one of a few things that Dee has over Hibbard, is his throwing which is why I was a little disappointed with the hooker selection.

Treviso over for the try, Tibaldi doing well at 9.

Benetton turning on the style now.

Dragons can't seem to match Benetton's physicality.

F*** sake Jackman. Hopes dashed on the rocks yet again

The Oracle wrote:F*** sake Jackman. Hopes dashed on the rocks yet again

Thing is, replace Jackman two games into the season and where are you? I don't think you have the players regardless of the coach which is why Jackman's plan last season was to play youngsters regardless of results.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

The Oracle wrote:F*** sake Jackman. Hopes dashed on the rocks yet again

Thing is, replace Jackman two games into the season and where are you?  I don't think you have the players regardless of the coach which is why Jackman's plan last season was to play youngsters regardless of results.

I’m not advocating replacing Jackman! Just so disappointed after all of the hype, the (relatively) easy start to the season, the hopes of getting a few wins under our belts in the first few weeks, etc. Still a bit early to start the crying yet of course, but we were beaten at home by a team who I’m sure no one would expect to finish in the play offs (would they?). We need to make it much harder for these sort of teams at home.  10-21 down with a couple of minutes left against a not-top side (no offence to Benetton fans!) is not great. I appreciate that we’re a ‘towards the bottom of the league’ side, but with the signings, the WRU investment, the hope and aspirations it just seems a little like ground hog day. As always. Surely it can/will/must get better? Just waiting for LD to come along and rub salt in the wounds and gloat about the loss. That’ll really boil my p**s!

Hold on, who was the one bringing in dross like Bevington and the other semi-pro’s? That’s right, big Bernard. One game in and it’s bye bye Jackman for me. Us and another two Welsh regions need to seriously reconsider our recruitment when it comes to coaches.

Artful_Dodger wrote:

The Oracle wrote:F*** sake Jackman. Hopes dashed on the rocks yet again

Thing is, replace Jackman two games into the season and where are you? I don't think you have the players regardless of the coach which is why Jackman's plan last season was to play youngsters regardless of results.

When do you replace him otherwise. We would be back to square one again next season otherwise and the dross like they produced last season would again be written off as "he's assessing our squad again".

At least if you chop him early, somebody could probably come in and run the rule over the squad this season.

Jackman said he was signing players who would be ready to go, said he had decided who wasn't up to it in January (so therefore there should be no dead wood remaining) and all that has been spoken about is our international players. Surely with that all considered, the buck has to stop with him.

I feel there were plenty of signs last season that he isn't up to it. There were signs from his time at Grenoble, that he isn't a head coach. If we don't act now, we will just be left further behind.

If I was Buttress, I would go on my knees begging Kingsley Jones to come back, as at least we would win four games a season under him and the Lyp before him.

How I long for the days of Paul Turner again.

I’m not against getting rid of Jackman, by the way. I just mean not after the first game. No one sacks a coach after the opening game of the season. It does seem he and his team got it very wrong last night though, taking on a team famed for their physicality by trying to go through them. At best that’s poor analysis of the opposition. At worst it suggests he’s not able to create a flexible game plan or play to his squad’s strengths (and equally their weaknesses) . And if that’s the case then we need someone more competent to come in. But I’d give it a few games this season first. If there’s no improvement and no wins after 4 or 5 games then yes I agree he should be shown the door.

The trouble is, we should win against the Kings at home which kind of papers over the cracks massively. I hear they played well in defeat however and have experience of beating us comfortably too, so I won't hold my breath.

I feel the minimum had to be 3/4 wins for him to keep his job and he has already failed at that. I am not really sure what wins over Kings and Zebre would prove now either, as they could easily be our only league wins this season again (if indeed we do win those games). Wins would be papering over the cracks again, until we face better sides who once again expose the inadequacies in our game plan and systems.

The Oracle wrote:I’m not against getting rid of Jackman, by the way. I just mean not after the first game. No one sacks a coach after the opening game of the season. It does seem he and his team got it very wrong last night though, taking on a team famed for their physicality by trying to go through them. At best that’s poor analysis of the opposition. At worst it suggests he’s not able to create a flexible game plan or play to his squad’s strengths (and equally their weaknesses) . And if that’s the case then we need someone more competent to come in. But I’d give it a few games this season first. If there’s no improvement and no wins after 4 or 5 games then yes I agree he should be shown the door.

Jackman had the chance to go out and buy players to implement his game plan. Buck stops with him.

Stone Motif wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I’m not against getting rid of Jackman, by the way. I just mean not after the first game. No one sacks a coach after the opening game of the season. It does seem he and his team got it very wrong last night though, taking on a team famed for their physicality by trying to go through them. At best that’s poor analysis of the opposition. At worst it suggests he’s not able to create a flexible game plan or play to his squad’s strengths (and equally their weaknesses) . And if that’s the case then we need someone more competent to come in. But I’d give it a few games this season first. If there’s no improvement and no wins after 4 or 5 games then yes I agree he should be shown the door.

Jackman had the chance to go out and buy players to implement his game plan. Buck stops with him.

I agree. If we were going to get rid of him it should have been at the end of last season though, not after 1 game of the new season.

I would've been content with that, to be honest. The media/marketing/whatever team did a pretty good job of building us up over the summer mind and a lot of Jackman's previous sins and our poor season were temporarily forgotten ha.

I think it's worth remembering that Benetton won 11 league games last season, including beating the Scarlets and Leinster. They're no mugs, and some of the comments on here seem to be based on how they used to perform a few years ago. I'm not saying it wasn't a winnable game, or that we didn't play horribly, but Benetton aren't the whipping boys they used to be.

I actually heard someone on the north terrace complaining halfway through the second half that 'these are the worst team in the league' Well the only way that's true is if he was talking about the Dragons.

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think it's worth remembering that Benetton won 11 league games last season, including beating the Scarlets and Leinster. They're no mugs, and some of the comments on here seem to be based on how they used to perform a few years ago. I'm not saying it wasn't a winnable game, or that we didn't play horribly, but Benetton aren't the whipping boys they used to be.

I actually heard someone on the north terrace complaining halfway through the second half that 'these are the worst team in the league' Well the only way that's true is if he was talking about the Dragons.

They also got more points than Ospreys. I think that we really won't know how the league is panning out until end of September. Beneton are a strong team physically so Dragons did well to stick with them. It's not like they lost by 10+pts

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think it's worth remembering that Benetton won 11 league games last season, including beating the Scarlets and Leinster. They're no mugs, and some of the comments on here seem to be based on how they used to perform a few years ago. I'm not saying it wasn't a winnable game, or that we didn't play horribly, but Benetton aren't the whipping boys they used to be.

I actually heard someone on the north terrace complaining halfway through the second half that 'these are the worst team in the league' Well the only way that's true is if he was talking about the Dragons.

I agree that they're better and was going to post previously something along the lines of 'I know they're not as bad as they used to be, but......'. However, if Dragons are looking to improve, and have an ambition to finish more around mid-table, then we have to beat teams like this at home. Or to put it another way, if we don't beat teams such as Benetton at home then who will we beat? We end up just winning two home games all season against the likes of Zebre and Cheetahs. So yes Benetton are improved, but if we are to finish mid table (which is not exactly sky high ambition), then we need to beat teams like Zebre, Cheetahs, Connacht, Benetton, Edinburgh, Kings, etc. These are our direct competition for mid table (although I'm sure their fans will take offence at that - apologies!), so of course it is going to be disappointing not to beat these teams. If we don't beat them at home then to improve on last season we need to beat them away (less likely) and/or beat the likes of Leinster, Scarlets, Munster, Glasgow et al. at home instead (even less likely).

If we hadn't knocked on a million times in the second half, it might have been a different story, and no doubt the players will be doing a lot of contact work before next Saturday. We didn't struggle for field position.

I agree that it's a long season, and it's not the end of the world that we lost, as disappointing and unwanted as it was; but we really can't afford to follow it up with another defeat. It won't be a fun trip to Dublin if we've fluffed our lines twice.

For next week I'd like to see Amos switched back to full back. Jordan Williams didn't do a great deal and the more touches Amos has the better. And also for once I'd like to see Jack Dixon take the ball into contact without slowing down first. It's so frustrating. It's like the thought that he might actually break the tackle hasn't occurred to him.

We’ll see how good Benetton are when they come up against the Irish, who are the ones setting the pace for results and player development again.

Is Robson any good these days? We could try Henson at 12. Loots looked as if he thoroughly enjoyed heavy contact in the game against Glaws. I alluded to Amos and Williams switching around last week, or just put Williams on the bench and have Kirchner at full-back. Dee should start, I assumed Hibbard was signed so he could bring impact from the bench? Harris can scrum better at LH than Bevington. Knoyle nowhere near the squad, he’d be lucky to make the A team.

Arwel Robson's injured I think / assume.

He played for the As this weekend, didn't he?

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:I think it's worth remembering that Benetton won 11 league games last season, including beating the Scarlets and Leinster. They're no mugs, and some of the comments on here seem to be based on how they used to perform a few years ago. I'm not saying it wasn't a winnable game, or that we didn't play horribly, but Benetton aren't the whipping boys they used to be.

I actually heard someone on the north terrace complaining halfway through the second half that 'these are the worst team in the league' Well the only way that's true is if he was talking about the Dragons.

Everyone knows that the Kings. Where about on the North were you ?

Slightly to the right of the posts as I was looking at it, back row.

Ah by the bar that never seems to open anymore - welcome to the North - its grim

It is what it is!

The Oracle wrote:I’m not against getting rid of Jackman, by the way. I just mean not after the first game. No one sacks a coach after the opening game of the season.

Well that's not true any more!

Poor Leicester

Buttress needs to give Matt O'Connor a call.

I'd rather Mike Ruddock

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:

The Oracle wrote:I’m not against getting rid of Jackman, by the way. I just mean not after the first game. No one sacks a coach after the opening game of the season.

Well that's not true any more!

Sod's law!

Luckless Pedestrian wrote:Buttress needs to give Matt O'Connor a call.

I was actually thinking that earlier.

munkian wrote:I'd rather Mike Ruddock

He would be good, but didn't him and the WRU end on a bit of a sour note?

MOC has good experience at this level. I thought he was made the scapegoat at Leinster. Funny how they didn't give Cullen the same treatment, instead they called in a disgraced Englishman to babysit him.

carpet baboon wrote:

munkian wrote:I'd rather Mike Ruddock

He would be good, but didn't him and the WRU end on a bit of a sour note?

Quite sour. It was disgusting treatment really, but he found happiness again in Ireland.