Gallagher Premiership - Round 3

First topic message reminder :

Friday 14th September

19:45 Gloucester v Bristol (BT Sport)


Saturday 15th September

15:00 Exeter v Sale
15:00 Harlequins v Bath (BT Sport)
15:00 Northampton v Saracens
15:00 Worcester v Newcastle


Sunday 16th September

15:00 Wasps v Leicester (BT Sport)



Gloucester and Exeter should be far too strong for Bristol and Sale and should both secure TBP wins.
Quins were good against Sale, poor against Saints. Bath were woeful in week 1 and only started playing after 35 minutes in week 2. If Quins are indeed making progress under Gustard they have to put Bath away with some ease.
My gut feel says that Saints are improved this season and should not suffer yet another thrashing from Sarries (4 last season?). Though still looking to shake of the early season rustiness, the champs should however secure an away win.
The two teams at the bottom meet at Sixways. Newcastle should be stronger but will be nervous as while not a must win game, with the fixtures both sides face in the following two weeks a win would be very useful.
Even at full strength, the Wasps pack does not look the strongest. With the injuries they currently face usually Leicester would travel down the M69 with some confidence. However without a miraculous improvement in the defense Tigers could have a new bumhole ripped for them by the Wasps backline.

Awful awful decision

Cole lucky not to see yellow IMO ...

He was marginally late and attempted to wrap his arm

Might as well go and cut the grass now, game over.

Not a red for me, look at the height of the fella! Plus wasps guy ducked into it

Cole one looked to me like he could easily have pulled out and clearly led with shoulder with little attempt to wrap but we'll agree to disagree.  

Red after was harsh, although probably technically following directives.

He certainly ducked into it, his legs were bent at 90 degrees.

Another game ruined to have the red card rescinded at a hearing

Ref said it's a yellow for cole if it's open play. It's not late as it's a dead ball according to his interpretation.

How else do you tackle without the shoulder?

Go lower. Know that any contact straight to head at best is going to open you up to a close decision.

7 1/2, that was with reference to comes one.

Taylor ducked into contact on the second one, look at his legs

Wasps best player strikes again.

Tommy Taylor's knees are bent so far into contact that his legs are at right angles. Spencer is bent at the waist. He's not always high at all. Competent ref please.

No 7&1/2 wrote:Ref said it's a yellow for cole if it's open play. It's not late as it's a dead ball according to his interpretation.

Cole was being naughty and he knew it. Having said that if you take a quick tap and go then expect to be hit. It certainly looked late to me but the left arm is clearly around the body. If Cole doesn't react and waits to see if the ref blows then it's too late and Robson is passed him.

I can see Nathan. Not 90 degrees but watching at half the analysis saying saying Taylor doesn't go lower always at that height. With force to the jaw. By the letter it's red. Sorry it's tight but probably right.

Re Cole, there's a difference in going in with your shoulder and no arms versus attempting to wrap - as I said I think we need to agree to disagree - the ref agrees with you, others agree with me (eg commentary team etc) - that's the issue with rugby unfortunately, many subjective calls.

Most will also probably say the red was harsh but the ref believed he had no choice based on current directives.

The current directives were about discouraging swinging arms and rugby league style flying shoulders. It wasn't meant to see players attempting legal challenges get red cards because shorter player duck into the contact. For me you have to look at the intent of the tackler and Spencer wasn't intentionally high.

Well that's some pretty good footwork from de Jongh. Shoe in for try of the week.

formerly known as Sam wrote:The current directives were about discouraging swinging arms and rugby league style flying shoulders. It wasn't meant to see players attempting legal challenges get red cards because shorter player duck into the contact. For me you have to look at the intent of the tackler and Spencer wasn't intentionally high.

When you say duck into contact you mean carry the ball into contact at pretty much the same height he at he received it at? And when you say not intentionally high, was he accidentally at that height?

Same height my arse.
Would love to see how you run with your knees bent at 90 degrees with your feet still on the ground

nathan wrote:Same height my arse.
Would love to see how you run with your knees bent at 90 degrees with your feet still on the ground

By being bent at the hip

Who let the muppet in shouting miss?

So at the point of contact his knees were bent 90 degrees with his feet on the floor. You expect him to run like that whilst maintaining the same height?

That was a harsh call on wasps

TightHEAD wrote:Who let the muppet in shouting miss?

Every village has an idiot and sometimes they go and watch rugby.

Tigers lineout is shocking again today. Killing us.

Offside? Wasps looked to be all behind the back foot when the ball popped out?

That pen looked harsh too after Manu ripped the ball ... ref is not having a great day all round ...

He isn't, wasps discipline needs to be better too

We won't win this, will be too shattered

At the risk of getting shouted at the last pass before Tigers' last try looked iffy and he didn't bother to check it ...

Lol, I won't shout at you but it doesn't surprise me you are haven't a positive comment to say

Good save by Ben Y

Don't get me wrong - I'm enjoying the match despite the ref

nathan wrote:So at the point of contact his knees were bent 90 degrees with his feet on the floor. You expect him to run like that whilst maintaining the same height?

Strange comment, no one said he was intending to run like that since he'd just offloaded anticipating the contact

Heaf wrote:At the risk of getting shouted at the last pass before Tigers' last try looked iffy and he didn't bother to check it ...

Ford took a quick conversion for exactly that reason. Any competent ref would have noticed and stopped the quick conversion and gone upstairs. There's no clearer give away of potential issue with a try then the flyhalf trying to take a quick kick.

Two point loss away at Wasps. Not bad. Plenty of young guns getting game time as well.

Ref was poor. I wonder if he reviewed the Spencer incident at HT and decided he was wrong, then came out trying to redress the balance. Certainly the initial contact looked to be with the Wasps player's shoulder, and looked more legal than Smith's last week that was overturned.

Sam, until Spencer went off, lineout was very good I felt. After that it was easy for them to get jumpers in front of Williams.

Ford was excellent again today, though yes that final assist was forward.

I was asking how his height couldn't of changed, you said he was bent at the hip.

His knees were bent at impact meaning his height just of changed considerably

No I said there wasn't much difference, you can change position but be at the same height it's not overly complicated but you seem to want to say it was a bad decision when it was pretty blatant red

Well despite all the controversy and poor officiating it was an exciting match to watch with plenty of good tries. 2 points away to Wasps isn't a bad result either ...

LondonTiger wrote:Ref was poor. I wonder if he reviewed the Spencer incident at HT and decided he was wrong, then came out trying to redress the balance. Certainly the initial contact looked to be with the Wasps player's shoulder, and looked more legal than Smith's last week that was overturned.

Sam, until Spencer went off, lineout was very good I felt. After that it was easy for them to get jumpers in front of Williams.

Denton was also on the field and under used at the lineout after being prominent last weekend. To be fair the lineout was very good at the start of the second half and we marched Wasps back from the half way through successive rolling mauls. Got a try and the Hughes yellow card. After that we stopped using the maul and just got picked off trying to throw to the middle.

Losing those lineouts really cost us, we needed to get some possession and apply pressure.

Loved the character on show. Real pride in the shirt when they could have easily rolled over.

Just heard Dai Young on the radio saying he felt the Spencer challenge was a YC.

LondonTiger wrote:Just heard Dai Young on the radio saying he felt the Spencer challenge was a YC.

His post match interview was very even handed. He said that he hoped Spencer didn't pick up a suspension and that the red card was more than enough punishment.

Havent seen the game or the incidents...

HOWEVER from the comments, its clear that once again the standard of Refereeing in the prem is being called in to question.

This needs addressed by the RFU and Premier League senior officials immediately as its almost every game now that howlers are being made!

Wasn't a howler by any stretch of the imagination.

Arguably there was at least one howler in the Wasps/Tigers game, but not the sending off. That was fine margins which will be debated at the disciplinary hearing tomorrow.

Howler being mays 2nd?

7.5

The fact that EVERY game seems to be creating debates over the referees would suggest there is a problem.

And then read the threads from the pro 12 internationals etc etc..don't think it's anything to do with standards.

We'll agree to disagree....

I'm not saying there's never a mistake I'm just saying people look to blame a ref rather than their players or coaches. Example above blaming a ref for.not calling a scrum off an ops side at the kick off rather than owen for dropping a retake. Owens is the bigger mistake. The debate is about the ref.