Leinster vs Edinburgh 22nd Sept Pro14

Previous meetings
Edinburgh 29 - 24 Leinster

These two have faced each other on 30 previous occasions, Leinster having the advantage with 19 wins to Edinburgh's 11.

Leinster have started the season well, whilst still being able to rest a few, Edinburgh on the otherhand have played well in their games so far, but have been undone by not being able to see games out.  I can't imagine that'll be a problem at the weekend, as I doubt Edinburgh will get to a position to let a lead slip.

Officials:
Referee: Dan Jones (WRU)
AR1: Adam Jones (WRU) AR2: Chris Busby (IRFU)
TMO: Simon McDowell (IRFU)

Good man Spoons.

As discussed on the Connacht thread, I really hope Cockers does a lot of rotation for this one. I'm not talking Ospreys play your under 20s rotation, but we have a strong squad with a number of international players barely featuring in the first 5 games of the season (including freindlies). Cockers has to use the squad to keep players fresh and drive up competition for places.

Compared to last week I'd like to see the entire front row rested plus one of Toolis or Gilchrist. Back row there has already been some rotation so no one has played too much, plus Mata and Bradbury are back from injury Pyrgos has played a lot and we need to see what our other 9s can do. Same as Matt Scott at 12 - he needs a rest before a big run of games.

I suspect Leinster will unleash their big guns for this one - it's a home game a few weeks away from Europe so they'll want to give them gametime.

My team, which represents 10 changes from last week plus a number on the bench, yet still should be very competitive.

1 Dell
2 Ford
3 Berghan
4 McKenzie
5 Gilchrist
6 Bradbury
7 Watson
8 Mata

9 Kennedy
10 Hickey
11 VDM
12 Dean
13 JJ
14 Fife
15 Brown

Subs - Marfo, Fenton, McCallum, Charmichael, Ritchie, Shiel, VDW, Socino

If Leinster do bring out all the big guns it should still be a comfortable win for them in the end, but that team will hopefully compete and push for a BP. The back row in particular should be able to compete with anyone in the league.

I wonder if Cockers will play his strongest team here, and rest a few next week against Benetton. I realise Benetton are doing well and can't be taken for granted, but if I was going to put a weaker team out and still hope to get a result it would be against them at home, rather than at Leinster away.

With that said, I wouldn't be unhappy with the team you suggest RDW

I really hope Cockers rotates for this one - he has the squad, so I don't see any reason why he wouldn't start using it.

I like you're team RDW, and would go with something reasonably similar.

Although according to the latest chat from Cockers:

- Fenton is out for 3 months following hip surgery
- Carmichael hasn't recovered yet from a head knock in pre-season

And he also said some of the Scotland players will get a rest, so ignore my chat from earlier about playing a full side this time out.

I hope he doesn't. Let's face it, very few teams will get a result away to Leinster and if we drop our performance against Treviso they have enough quality now to beat us. It sounds a bit defeatist but losing away to Leinster isn't much of a big deal, but losing at home to Treviso is. Plus I can imagine Cockers wants to banish the deamons of last year's defeat which still haunts him to this day judging by his interviews!

As I said I think we can get the best of both worlds rotation those that have had a heavy workload so far but not significantly weakening the team. Looking at the above, many of those player may end up first choice as the season goes on, with perhaps only McInally, Gilchrist and Scott guaranteed starters that aren't playing.

TBH I'm not so concerned about player fatigue at this stage but I think it would be a mistake to keep the same players from a rotation point of view - there's a lot of quality kicking their heels on the bench or not even in the squad and these guys need to be given gametime for the squad to be competitive.

Fenton and Charmichael are a shame as they're both promising players. That should hopefully mean Dave Cherry getting a run off the bench - he'll be seeing gametime during the AIs so needs to play. CHH may even appear on the bench.

Another interesting match for the neutral.

Leinster haven't looked great so far whereas I've been very impressed with Edinburgh, they look really physical and the results so far haven't reflected how strong they've been.

That said they'll get nothing from the ref in Dublin, so Leinster by 60 points.

Cockers will explode if we see more dodgy reffing!

I'm with RDW. Careful use of rotation for this one. I'd certainly want to see Bradbury in action though.

My (limited) sources say that Berghan is starting and our backrow is going to be Ritchie, Hamilton & Bradbury

Charlie shiel has featured in a lot of the training week photos so wonder if he's going to get a runabout too.

It would be good to have a look at Sheil. We know what Kennedy brings to the party

Would be a hell of a competitive debut if he comes on/starts against Leinster.

Looks like I got my way, although he's gone further than I would have!

Head Coach Richard Cockerill has made nine changes to his Edinburgh team for tomorrow night’s Guinness PRO14 encounter with reigning champions Leinster at the RDS Arena (Saturday 22 September, kick-off 7.35pm) – live on Premier Sports.
As several internationalists - including Ross Ford, Allan Dell and Magnus Bradbury - are rotated into the match-day squad, the starting XV includes just six players that started in the 17-10 victory over Connacht last weekend.
Dougie Fife, Duhan van der Merwe, Jaco van der Walt, Ben Toolis, Luke Hamilton and Jamie Ritchie are all once again selected as Edinburgh look to secure their first away victory of the season.
On his selection, Cockerill, said: “It’s going to be a good challenge for us. We’re going to go there, throw everything at them and see where we get to.
“We pushed them close there last year and were probably unlucky not to get anything out the game. They’re a great side and had a good win against Dragons last weekend.
“It’s going to be a tough evening for us but one we look forward to. Leinster are and have the best team in Europe and we’ve got to go there and give it a bash.”
Fullback, Fife, completes the back-three alongside wingers Van der Merwe and Jamie Farndale. The Scotland Sevens star makes his first appearance for Edinburgh since his debut as a replacement against Cardiff Blues in April 2012.
In the midfield, Chris Dean returns from injury to partner summer recruit Juan Pablo Socino, who makes his first competitive start for the club. Van der Walt continues at stand-off, while Sean Kennedy makes his first start of the campaign at scrum-half.
A new look front-row sees 110-times capped Scotland international hooker Ross Ford pack down alongside Allan Dell and Simon Berghan, while Fraser McKenzie – named as captain - and Toolis form the second-row.  
After a replacement appearance from the bench against Connacht last weekend, Bradbury is named at number eight, with Ritchie and Hamilton completing a combative back-row.
Replacement hooker Dave Cherry could make his debut if called upon from the bench. The former Scotland U20 player who joined the club from French Fédérale 2 side Stade Niçois on a one-year-deal in the summer.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Replacements: 16. Dave Cherry*; 17. Pierre Schoeman (3); 18. Murray McCallum (40); 19. Callum Hunter-Hill (1); 20. Luke Crosbie (13); 21. Nathan Fowles (59); 22. Simon Hickey (2); 23. James Johnstone (21)

Still a pretty strong side all in all, which shows that Edinburgh do have a bit of depth these days. The bench will certainly add something later on.

No Charlie Sheil, but maybe Leinster away not the match to debut in.

Jamie Farndale gets a start, it does look like Cockers rates him and we may indeed see him moving over from the sevens set up. Seems to like his wingers big, strong and fast, which may not bode well in the longer term for Hoyland, Brown and Graham (though he has not really had his opportunity yet to be fair).

Good to see CHH getiing a run out as well, he has always seemed a very decent prospect as well and needs an opportunity.

Going to be a long evening!

Leinster Rugby (Leinster caps in brackets)
15. Jordan Larmour (24)
14. Fergus McFadden (171)
13. Garry Ringrose (51)
12. Robbie Henshaw (26)
11. James Lowe (14)
10. Johnny Sexton (149) CAPTAIN
9. Luke McGrath (97)
1. Cian Healy (192)
2. James Tracy (68)
3. Michael Bent (107)
4. Devin Toner (219)
5. James Ryan (16)
6. Max Deegan (24)
7. Josh van der Flier (61)
8. Jack Conan (76)
16. Seán Cronin (155)
17. Peter Dooley (50)
18. Tadhg Furlong (86)
19. Mick Kearney (37)
20. Dan Leavy (54)
21. Jamison Gibson-Park (54)
22. Ross Byrne (51)
23. Joe Tomane (3)

That Leinster team is a bit silly really - no weak link anywhere. Maybe, just maybe, Edinburgh can get the upper hand at scrum time...but then you have Cronin and Furlong on the bench.

Still, the Edinburgh team should at least be competitive - they have improved their depth hugely. I'm slightly surprised to see Schoeman as a replacement, especially when Cockers has Marfo and Sutherland (who he doesn't seem to rate) available.

Ooch, that looks pretty much full strength from Leinster!

Going to be a big test for Edinburgh on Saturday.

we're going to get destroyed.

Dean isn't particularly good at 13, so likely to be a weak link trying to defend that channel. Farndale, is good at sevens but hasn't really stepped up at 15s level....yet, big game for him, however with the way we are playing currently, I imagine the only time he will see the ball is in defense.

And of course everyone's favourite Fowles is on the bench.

On the plus side the pack is ok so hopefully they can hold their own.

LBP is as much as I am hoping for at this stage.

A LBP would be a bit of a miracle!

If we can keep the scoreline respectable and see some decent individual performances I'll be happy.

Socino (who hasn't looked good so far) and an out of position Dean vs Henshaw and Ringrose... 

LBP was my attempt at some positivity in what was a fairly negative post.

12 & 13 is a bit of a weak spot.

I get the impression RC has written this game off already

I'm looking forward to this out of all the matches over the weekend. Edinburgh are extremely dangerous so Leinster beware.
However, Jordan Larmour is a freak, a mutant of sorts. He can play our beloved sport like few others and is still only a cub so Edinburgh beware.

Cullen dropping the regular stars again. No Dave Kearney, Adam Byrne, Noel Reid, O’Loughlin, and Byrne and Gibson Park dropped to the bench.

Hope he doesn’t come unstuck.

Looking forward to the Schoeman vs Furlong battle off the bench.

Big test for Berghan. In the front 5, Edinburgh should survive. The back-row leans towards Leinster.

The backs, who knows if Edinburgh can keep within 2 scores. Dean is a 12 until he proves he can play 13. Going up against Henshaw-Ringrose would be a way of doing that.

If Edinburgh lose by more than 2 scores, they can point to missing McInally, Nel, Gilchrist, Mata, Watson, Pyrgos, Scott and Kinghorn with no adequate replacements (compared to Leinster). This is really a test for guys like McCallum, Hunter-Hill, Hamilton, Kennedy and Dean on whether they can step up when it counts.

Some great match ups this weekend along with this game.

Munster away with a full first team (bar injured) against Cardiff looking to get first win on the board.

Connacht also have their first team out against Scarlets at the Sportsgrojnd. Aki partnering with the returning (and widely underestimated) Tom Farrell in midfield. Copeland has his first start with the Galwegians. Should be a great game.

In SA, Ulster might have a shaky start against Cheetahs with some newbies starting the game.
Glasgow should demolish the Kings.

Benetton could put another notch on the bedpost.

I have already prepared my hiding place behind the sofa for this. I fear a cuffing

A word of advice. Take a look at what the Dragons did last week against Leinster, take on board their moves and tactics...... and then do the exact opposite! Should stand you in good stead!

Good luck!

Wales v Ireland 1 nil Wales this weekend Munster shellacked big time. Good article in the Indo this weekend about teams sending second string sides for matches they look to have given up on under the pretext of rotation and the harm it does to the league. Not suggesting this is what happens here but its a good read anyhows, personally would like to see limited rotation and sides giving it a go every weekend not short changing supporters. Edinburgh have looked good to me this year so far, Leinstet away is probably the hardest game for anyone in the league but Im not seeing a hammering here, Leinster by 15

Munster hardly sent a 2nd string to Cardiff. Sounds like they just did not play well and the Blues did!

Sides have to rotate but there is a difference between doing it sensibly and capitulation.

I don't think Edinburgh will capitulate here even if they don't win. They are mainly international players comi g in and they are trying to stake a place in the starting XV. They may well not get another chance with Cockers if they don't turn up!

Aye Munster's team looked pretty first choice to me.

I understand what they're getting at about teams sending weakened sides for away games they're likely going to lose - I would have liked to have seen our first XV give Leinster a go - but the reality is that coaches have to rotate. Cockers has done that, and although this team isn't as strong as our first XV, it should still be competitive. A number of those players in the pack will be thinking they should be first choice and will be wanting to prove it. It's the backs I'm worried about, particularly the experimental centre combo.

All sides must rotate. the best sides do this with little drop in quality. A player can only play 25 or so games a year. 11 internationals a year, 4+ european cup matches. If those are priorities then there are only 10 or so league games left that the internationals can play.

stevetynant wrote:Wales v Ireland 1 nil Wales this weekend Munster shellacked big time. Good article in the Indo this weekend about teams sending second string sides for matches they look to have given up on under the pretext of rotation and the harm it does to the league. Not suggesting this is what happens here but its a good read anyhows, personally would like to see limited rotation and sides giving it a go every weekend not short changing supporters. Edinburgh have looked good to me this year so far, Leinstet away is probably the hardest game for anyone in the league but Im not seeing a hammering here, Leinster by 15

I find comments and articles like these bizarre in this day and age when players are calling for less game time, due to the demands of rugby. I wouldve thought listening to the likes of Warburton would have hit home that point. 

It shouldn't need to be pointed out that squads have to rotate. Even in the 6 nations the same 15 isn't used every week, squad management and rotation is absolutely crucial in rugby. Schmidt was a master of it.

No doubting who the bookies have as favourites - Leinster at 1/14!

TJ wrote:All sides must rotate.  the best sides do this with little drop in quality.  A player can only play 25 or so games a year. 11 internationals a year, 4+ european cup matches.  If those are priorities then there are only 10 or so league games left that the internationals can play.

Teams used to rotate at home against the likes of Treviso, Zebre and Dragons. Not the case anymore as a win isn't guaranteed, even with the 1st teamers.

I don't like mass rotation, for me a good coach will rotate at most 2 players per starting 15 without trying to weaken the team much.

VinceWLB wrote:

TJ wrote:All sides must rotate.  the best sides do this with little drop in quality.  A player can only play 25 or so games a year. 11 internationals a year, 4+ european cup matches.  If those are priorities then there are only 10 or so league games left that the internationals can play.

Teams used to rotate at home against the likes of Treviso, Zebre and Dragons. Not the case anymore as a win isn't guaranteed, even with the 1st teamers.

I don't like mass rotation, for me a good coach will rotate at most 2 players per starting 15 without trying to weaken the team much.

2 players at most??

Leinster have used about 37-38 players already - the rest injured. Two of them back for this evening - Leavy and McGrath. And some academy players as well.

Hi guys, I've just signed up for Premier sports and can't access Premier Sport 2 stream. Anyone else having this problem?

Not a bad start from Edinburgh but we're going to have to be more adventurous in attack than that.

Excellent defence from Edinburgh but if we carry on like this we'll be knackered by halftime. Need someone to get in for a turnover.

bsando wrote:Hi guys, I've just signed up for Premier sports and can't access Premier Sport 2 stream. Anyone else having this problem?

Downloaded app on ipad and that works, but not web player. Oh well.

Edinburgh look strong so far, much more organised than Glasgow earlier today. Leinster look very determined as well. This is gonna be a cracker!

That was awful kick from Fife!

Smart from Hamilton there

We need to be better when in possession - we worked so hard in defence then when we got the ball we didn't deal with it properly.

Frustrating try given how much work we've put in!

Ah Kennedy! In his defence it was Toner who charged his kick down

What a kick from VDW. He'll be wanting to make a claim to the starting 10 shirt!

Here go! Come on Edinburgh, excellent kick

We're definitely in the fight here - we could do with getting some points from all this effort

Certainly not much subtlety about our attack tonight

This is for the rugby purist. Awesome stuff!