Ulster Rugby 2017-2018 Part 2

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Part 2

clivemcl wrote:So who won that turnover for us after the counter drive of their maul??

Not been slick or pretty but I guess there’s something to be said for Ulster’s never give in attitude at the death.

Silly mistakes and handling errors pretty worrying though.

Poor Lowry, he may have the skill, but can you really see him taking this kind of physicality more 10-12 more years in pro rugby??

I think it was Warwick who won it, great turnover.

I’d take that all day. The reality was it should have been about 15-20pt win but we ballsed up a few chances. Rectify that for next week. Get Coetzee back in hopefully and possibly Addison too and get a good win against zebre. Defensive structure was good.

Not the first time Warwick has done it either.

We were the better team should have been more comfortable.
To be fair Kernohan had a few dodgy moments in the first half but did well in the second
Nelson was excellent under the high ball
Bottom line is the back three did not let us down.

Lowry is to my mind too brave for his own good - plays so much flatter than our other fly halves.
He needs a minder, a bit like Ferris was for Humphreys I, unlike Humphreys Lowry puts himself on the line
Murphy had a poor game and Ross was ineffectual.
The rest of the forwards did quite well I thought and O'Sullivan is a tackling machine
As suspected Henderson did not look 100%

In the context of the Pro14 and qualification that was a great result - sometimes you have to grind them out
We need 14/15 points now against the worst three teams in the league.
Ever change that would put us something like 7/8 point above 4th place with 3 games to go

There’s a touch of the Michael Allen’s about Kernohan but it’s in his power to adapt his game and improve his handling so he has more of a career than the aforementioned. He has very good leg drove and makes yards in contact. Hendo topped the tackle count at least. Too many missed in the backs.

That fair - I thought the forwards were collectively pretty good but the backs missed too many to be effective

Didn't see the game but sounds like a slog.

I suppose you flip it around and look at it from an Osprey's perspective. To get nilled, at home, by a team which isn't top tier. They'll be devastated. When you look at it like that they'll be happy with the defence at the very least.

We're starting to pick up a worrying number of concussions for our young players. Was it Sexton who's been stood down for the rest of the season? That's knock 3 or 4 for Lowry, Curtis is MIA. Is this the nature of game now for young players? Do other teams pick up similar numbers of head knocks for youngsters or are we doing something wrong?

Benetton beat Scarlets to go back above us. If we hadn’t stole (undeservedly) that game from them, they would be second in the conference.

Fair play to them... they are kinda at the point where they are demanding they be taken seriously.


(Unlike Southern Kings ... oh dear)

Benneton beating Scarlets is better for Ulster as it drops Scarlets behind and having to make up ground.
After all they are only 2pts behind second is fine. The big worry for Ulster is the grand total of 2 TBP, second lowest in the league. Yesterday re-forces the point of Ulster struggling to score.

Scarlets have the easiest run in with four home games (including Cheetahs and Zebre) with the other two still in Wales, a raft of players due back and no involvement in Europe. They score plenty of bonus points too so very likely to finish above Ulster despite the loss.
ROUND 16: Scarlets v Toyota Cheetahs
ROUND 17: Scarlets v Munster
ROUND 18: Cardiff Blues v Scarlets
ROUND 19: Scarlets v Edinburgh
ROUND 20: Scarlets v Zebre
ROUND 21: Dragons v Scarlets

Benetton have a tougher run in so it would have been much better if they had lost against the Scarlets. If Ulster had prioritised the win against them they would be two points ahead rather than two behind them and a lot more likely to finish ahead. Benetton having Edinburgh at home is crucial especially as the Scots may be affected by Europe around that time.
ROUND 16: Benetton v Dragons
ROUND 17: Benetton v Edinburgh
ROUND 18: Connacht v Benetton
ROUND 19: Leinster v Benetton
ROUND 20: Benetton v Munster
ROUND 21: Zebre v Benetton

Edinburgh have the toughest run-in, but like the Scarlets score bonus points and crucially have Ulster at home. Their squad will be tested by Europe and they may fancy their chances against Munster so could get distracted. Cockerill has built a good squad so they hard to overtake though.
ROUND 16: Edinburgh v Cardiff Blues
ROUND 17: Benetton v Edinburgh
ROUND 18: Edinburgh v Leinster
ROUND 19: Scarlets v Edinburgh
ROUND 20: Edinburgh v Ulster
ROUND 21: Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh

Ulster need to bank points from the next three games because they are unlikely to get any from the last three, and bonus points are like hen's teeth for UR. They cannot contemplate resting players in anticipation of Europe because if they do they will not only be out of Europe but might miss even the fourth league spot.
ROUND 16: Ulster v Zebre
ROUND 17: Dragons v Ulster
ROUND 18: Ulster v Southern Kings
ROUND 19: Glasgow Warriors v Ulster
ROUND 20: Edinburgh v Ulster
ROUND 21: Ulster v Leinster

Next three games is definitely 3TBP or forget the playoffs. Leinster at home on the final day might not be so bad as it will be a second string team (not that it will be weak) so could pick up a TBP win there.
As you say though the double header v the Scottish teams, you probably need one if you want a home quarterfinal in the playoffs.

Henderson a little lucky not to see a card on Friday?

https://twitter.com/PremierSportsTV/status/1096508089224871937

Don't think it was a straight neck roll so probably not a red but silly either way

I don’t think id have batted an eyelid if it weren’t for the players head going to ground first. Don’t think the head roll up n itself is so bad because he’s also lifting his leg which minimises the force being put on only the neck. But yea I think it’s the subsequent contact of the head on the ground which makes it worse.

I am glad Benetton beat Scarlets, better for Ulster.
Benetton have a tough run in.

I remain convinced Edinburgh and Ulster will qualify from the Conference
I most definitely do not agree Ulster will get nothing from the last 3 games, far from it - there will be a win in there.

clivemcl wrote:I don’t think id have batted an eyelid if it weren’t for the players head going to ground first. Don’t think the head roll up n itself is so bad because he’s also lifting his leg which minimises the force being put on only the neck. But yea I think it’s the subsequent contact of the head on the ground which makes it worse.

I think the neck crank to leverage the lift is a penalty, the DDT style drop maybe a yellow. Some of the usual overreactions to it though calling it a red

geoff999rugby wrote:
I remain convinced Edinburgh and Ulster will qualify from the Conference
I most definitely do not agree Ulster will get nothing from the last 3 games, far from it - there will be a win in there.

We're likely to see first choice XV for at least the last two games, Edinburgh and Leinster. Glasgow may be a case of who is left standing for both teams and probably won't see Leinsters first XV given they'll likely have everything wrapped up and have bigger games ahead

Absolutely we will see Leinster 3rds turn up at Ravenhill, still not easy but a big difference from the first choice 23
Being realistic they will be facing 2 big SFs after this game and will have nothing to play for

Beaten them 3 out of the last 4 in our backyard

Here are my predictions, and even with a season ending win Ulster will finish 5th!

SCARLETS
ROUND 16: Scarlets (5) v Toyota Cheetahs
ROUND 17: Scarlets (4) v Munster - Munster will be missing their 6N guys and won't risk any doubtfuls as they still have R18 before Europe
ROUND 18: Cardiff Blues v Scarlets (1) - Tight game with both scrapping for respective playoffs
ROUND 19: Scarlets (4) v Edinburgh - The Scots either elated from Europe and rest players or deflated and lose focus by licking wounds
ROUND 20: Scarlets (5) v Zebre
ROUND 21: Dragons v Scarlets (4) - Dragons will have nothing to play for and will be looking towards the summer hols
Current 36 plus 23 = 59

BENETTON
ROUND 16: Benetton (5) v Dragons - woeful Dragons away form
ROUND 17: Benetton (4) v Edinburgh - The Italians will have more first teamers back from 6N camp than the Scots
ROUND 18: Connacht v Benetton (1) - Connacht may rest some players for Europe, while Benetton only have the league to go for
ROUND 19: Leinster v Benetton (0)
ROUND 20: Benetton (2) v Munster - Munster probably secure in their playoff spot and may still be in Europe, home advantage but Munster will scrap
ROUND 21: Zebre v Benetton (5) - Zebre nothing to play for
Current 41 plus 17 = 58

EDINBURGH
ROUND 16: Edinburgh (4) v Cardiff Blues - home advantage and form
ROUND 17: Benetton v Edinburgh (1) - LBP as more depleted by 6N and away from home
ROUND 18: Edinburgh (4) v Leinster - The Irish missing more players and Edinburgh looking for a hard run in to their HEC tie.
ROUND 19: Scarlets v Edinburgh (0) - can't see Edinburgh getting up for this game whether they win or lose in Europe the previous weekend
ROUND 20: Edinburgh (4) v Ulster - home win
ROUND 21: Glasgow Warriors v Edinburgh (4) - Edinburgh have the wood over Glasgow and may need the win more
Current 41 plus 17 = 58

ULSTER
ROUND 16: Ulster (4) v Zebre - Ulster don't have the fire power to get a TBP while missing Stockdale and Addison
ROUND 17: Dragons v Ulster (4) - Very tough away fixture, but if Ulster can beat the Ospreys maybe they can do the same at Dave.
ROUND 18: Ulster (5) v Southern Kings - Hopefully some Test returnees against the worst team in the league
ROUND 19: Glasgow Warriors v Ulster (0) - Glasgow are likely to be out of Europe but will be fired up to get home playoff and will be playing a game Ulster struggle to contain.
ROUND 20: Edinburgh v Ulster (1) - Ulster haven't a great record in this fixture and will do well to get anything
ROUND 21: Ulster (4) v Leinster - a backs to the wall performance against freewheeling Dubliners who will be probably still in Europe
Current 39 plus 18 = 57

Ulster might be best advised to rest players for the Glasgow game, as there is a short turnaround from Europe and the Edinburgh game is now the most important game of their season. Qualification for next season's competition could hinge on that game, but they will still have to beat Leinster as well.

You mention repeatedly the player the Irish are missing but not the players the Scarlets, Edinburgh and Treviso are missing - that is not a level playing field.

Munster and Glasgow will up for it after Europe but Edinburgh and Ulster will struggle - that is not a level playing field

The Scarlets are currently north of 20 players missing, they have a number of players who have been left dangling re contracts, coach on the way out. There internal moral is almost certainly poor - no way they will come second.

Seems to me you are jumping through hoops to justify the points the other three teams will get but take a consistently pessimistic line about Ulster.

To be honest if you weren't a regular I would say you are on a wind up
Your not Lord Dowlais  are you
(No you cant be - bigging up Scarlets chances )

I would share your positivity Geoff if it wasn't for Ulster doing things like nearly losing to Benetton despite Benetton having way more players missing to Italian squad.

Only Leinster and Munster have lost less league games so far this season, only Munster, Leinster, Connacht and Scarlets have beaten Ulster and only Leinster, Munster and Glasgow have won more games

The two games Ulster drew were games before this season they would have lost, it's little comfort but there definitely is a greater resilience to this Ulster squad. While Benetton had plenty of players away, they have a good squad these days with some decent depth in quality

geoff999rugby wrote:You mention repeatedly the player the Irish are missing but not the players the Scarlets, Edinburgh and Treviso are missing - that is not a level playing field.

Munster and Glasgow will up for it after Europe but Edinburgh and Ulster will struggle - that is not a level playing field

The Scarlets are currently north of 20 players missing, they have a number of players who have been left dangling re contracts, coach on the way out. There internal moral is almost certainly poor - no way they will come second.

Seems to me you are jumping through hoops to justify the points the other three teams will get but take a consistently pessimistic line about Ulster.

To be honest if you weren't a regular I would say you are on a wind up
Your not Lord Dowlais  are you
(No you cant be - bigging up Scarlets chances )

Which predictions do you consider to be a wind-up?

The Scarlets are missing a lot of players but they are also getting some players back from injury and their internationals will be returning. They have two guaranteed rest weeks in the run-in that means they can plan their squad rotation better than those teams still in Europe so their Test players might appear earlier than the equivalents on teams left in. Same can be said for Benetton.
I have Munster losing away to Scarlets and maybe scraping a draw away to Benetton. The latter game could easily be more like a Benetton win with Munster maybe still in Europe and Benetton fighting harder for a first ever playoff - only giving 2 points to Benetton rather than 4 might be considered pessimistic.
Glasgow will hope they can beat Sarries away but if they do it will be an upset, whereas if they lose it will be a disappointment but not unexpected. The players recover better in such circumstances.
OTOH Edinburgh have a home European quarter which will heap expectation on their players, and if it is anything like 2012 they will have five times the gate, especially draining before going to Scarlets coming back after a rest week.

If your opinion is that the Scarlets will come 5th, fair enough. The exercise was purely to speculate how the games might pan out, no need to come out with wind-up accusations just because you don't agree.

Hume, Lowry and O'Sullivan all given senior contracts

Only one has signed so far by the looks of it, the other two have signed headed paper

geoff999rugby wrote:To be honest if you weren't a regular I would say you are on a wind up
Your not Lord Dowlais are you Headscratch

Some of you Ulster lot need to take those chips off your shoulders.

Humour bypass

geoff999rugby wrote:Humour bypass

Well then, please do not use my name in vein.

Probable backs for Zebre

Shanahan, 'who knows' - all three 10s in contention, Ludik, McCloskey, Cave/Hume, Lyttle, Nelson

Balacoune not out of contention and neither is Coetzee (but not for the backs )

LordDowlais wrote:

geoff999rugby wrote:Humour bypass

Well then, please do not use my name in vein.

I was nowhere near you blood movements - I think vain is the word you are looking for.
It means '‘showing undue pride and preoccupation in your own appearance’
With due respect if you are so precious about your pride and how you appear here, this board is not for you

But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

marty2086 wrote:Hume, Lowry and O'Sullivan all given senior contracts

Only one has signed so far by the looks of it, the other two have signed headed paper  

I suspect thay will all be 1 year as DEvelopment contracts and then go on to full the contracts the following year

Will try and find out if it is till 2022 like O'Toole or 2021 like A.Curtis

LordDowlais wrote:But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

Guys come on can you please cut the bickering and get back to the topic?

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

Guys come on can you please cut the bickering and get back to the topic?

He started it!

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

Guys come on can you please cut the bickering and get back to the topic?

He started it!

right next person who speaks gets a lifetime ban!

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

Guys come on can you please cut the bickering and get back to the topic?

He started it!

right next person who speaks gets a lifetime ban!

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

marty2086 wrote:

rodders wrote:

LordDowlais wrote:But it's OK to insult on here ?

Typical, it' the V2 way I suppose.

Guys come on can you please cut the bickering and get back to the topic?

He started it!

right next person who speaks gets a lifetime ban!

Good evening everyone!!!!

Callum Reid in the U20s squad. Good news in that he seems to be committing to rugby

“Addison is suffering from some lower back stiffness which is being managed at Ulster this week”

Doesn’t sound like Addison will be in contention for Italy game then by sounds of it.

Nope Addison is out, sounds like Aki/Farrell in midfield and Henshaw at 15 again. Unfortunate for Addison, it could cost him a rwc squad spot.

Appears unsurprisingly that the IRFU have allowed Munster so sign Mathewson untill the end of the season.
Bit of a joke that with everyone fit they allow Munster to extend his stay, yet at the same time when Marimon was injuried at Connacht they refused a medical joker.

More surprising is that Munster give Bleyendaal a contract extension and ge will be there until 2021.

Kingshu wrote:
Bit of a joke that with everyone fit they allow Munster to extend his stay, yet at the same time when Marimon was injuried at Connacht they refused a medical joker.

Never knew they asked for one, would be the second time in 3 years it's happened to Connacht

Kingshu wrote:More surprising is that Munster give Bleyendaal a contract extension and ge will be there until 2021.

Sets them up to signed a load of new medical jokers

Kingshu wrote:Appears unsurprisingly that the IRFU have allowed Munster so sign Mathewson untill the end of the season.

I suspect things are not right at all with Murray and the IRFU will be wrapping him in cotton wool until the RWC. I'd expect Matheson to stay on next season as well.

When did Connacht look for the SH medical Joker?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.the42.ie/connacht-scrum-half-signing-4384358-Dec2018/%3famp=1

Andy Friend has confirmed the province are seeking to bring in scrum-half cover, with Connacht currently in the market for an Irish-qualified nine to offset the loss of Kieran Marmion and Conor McKeon

Where does it say they were refused a medical joker?

Its implied when they are looking for an IQ and have to settle with Lloyd 2 weeks later.
It appears the IRFU rejections for medical cover do not get leaked anymore.

Just the same way you will not find an article saying Ulster were declined a medical joker for Coetzee, but Byran said they had been declined in the seasons ticket holders meeting.

Well it would make sense that they were steered to looking at an IQ replacement and Munster have Mathewson at 9.

Don't Munster have Williams, Hart and Cronin at 9? If Connacht or even Ulster lost their scrum halves now to injury would Mathewson block any chance of them getting a NIQ player?

Seems to be a recurring pattern that Munster can sign multiple medical jokers and retain them repeatedly beyond their need

Well they were allowed to keep Taute only on the basis that he couldn't start if the Irish players were fit.

Haven't they also signed a few Argentinians as injury cover in the past? Deysel was injury cover for second row yet I think he played part of a game there for them

ULSTER: L Ludik; R Baloucoune, D Cave, S McCloskey, R Lyttle; P Nelson, D Shanahan; E O’Sullivan, R Herring, M Moore; A O’Connor (c), K Treadwell; C Ross, S Reidy, N Timoney.

Subs: J Andrew, A Warwick, R Kane, I Nagle, G Jones, J Stewart, J McPhillips, J Hume.

Can we now agree that McPhillips really is not fancied at 10 by the Ulster management?