F1 2019 season

First topic message reminder :

Felt like a new season deserves a new thread...

It's reported in Italy that Maurizio Arrivabene has been fired. His strained relationship with Ferrari's prized asset Sebastian Vettel and cost him his job. Arrivabene got one last dig at Vettel though by replacing Raikkonen with LeClerc.

Mattia Binotto will be confirmed as new team boss

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

That actually makes Hamiltons the greater achievement, dry your eyes though Nathaniel.

Marky wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

I bet the only thing sweeter than the champagne to Hamilton is the tears of his haters

The real Hamilton is the degenerate who was seen between 2009-13. Continually crashing into Massa. That’s his level.

Soul Requiem wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

That actually makes Hamiltons the greater achievement, dry your eyes though Nathaniel.

Diane Abbott style numeracy skills. Good job you aren’t a banker.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:

Soul Requiem wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

That actually makes Hamiltons the greater achievement, dry your eyes though Nathaniel.

Diane Abbott style numeracy skills. Good job you aren’t a banker.

Fewer races in a calendar year means when you win titles you'll have raced less not more, great logic as always.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:

Marky wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:Schumacher won his 7th championship after 228 races, when the calendar had fewer races.

Mediocre Hamilton reaches a 6th championship in 248 races.

There’s no comparison between Schumacher and Hamilton

I bet the only thing sweeter than the champagne to Hamilton is the tears of his haters

The real Hamilton is the degenerate who was seen between 2009-13. Continually crashing into Massa. That’s his level.

That's like saying "the real Schumacher was the guy who won nothing between 1996 and 1999", because his wasn't the fastest car either.

I'm not saying Hamilton is better than Schumacher, but he is far better than mediocre. Saying Hamilton only won because his teammates weren't up to scratch then pretending Eddie Irvine and Rubens Barrichello were world class racers in the Ferrari is tremendous

I really don't know why you guys even bother responding to that muppet. He does nothing but troll and try to get people to bite. He never posts anything worth reading.

I wish the mods would just ban him already...an IP ban so he can't just make a new account.

Anyway, for those individuals who have difficulty processing logic, Hamilton's achievements are FAR above Schumacher's by the simple reason Lewis has never cheated his way to a title.




Tried to do the same thing to Jacques Villeneuve...but failed hilariously:




Also got done for having illegal launch control software, as well as ignoring black flags:




And to think some people still salute Schumacher as a "great" driver. Successful undoubtedly. Great...no...

No name Bertie wrote:Next year is going to be a 22 race season and the F1 owners want to make it a 25 race season within a few years.  Teams are worried about personel fatigue and burnout having to travel the world to keep the show on the road always under intense pressure to perform and meet their own improvement targets.

That is utterly ridiculous and its probably the only thing I am in agreement with the teams on.

Its a recipe for disaster and could well plunge some of the smaller teams into financial problems with the increased costs. They would also surely have to change the regs on use of parts...or else they would have to be designed to last even longer.

Seems Liberty want to ride their horse until it breaks down.

I like the fact that there are breaks in the season...it makes the races more special when they do come around. Too much of anything is bad and could well turn off the punters.

I'd like to know where they plan on hosting these extra races, given that several of the traditional circuits have said its no longer viable for them to host races. If they go the Ecclestone route of getting new circuits built in far-flung places that have no motorsport tradition, they can look forward to more empty stands.

Just madness IMO.

One of the issues for Red Bull, Mercedes and other non-Ferrari teams has been the extra power the Ferrari engine produces. One of the possible causes may have been Ferrari holding fuel in reserve once the fuel had flowed past the flowmeter. So although they may have been validly meeting the fuel flow limit (as measured by the flowmeter) they may have been holding fuel in reserve after the flowmeter - injecting that into the engine when the additional power was needed. With the Red Bull's clarification to the FIA - that should now be ruled out.

Some claim the drop in straight line power of the Ferrari engine was noticeable in the US race - however this might have been coincidental - because Vettels car had issues from the start, while LeClerc was using an old engine with the power turned down to prevent possible engine failure.

dyrewolfe wrote:

No name Bertie wrote:Next year is going to be a 22 race season and the F1 owners want to make it a 25 race season within a few years.  Teams are worried about personel fatigue and burnout having to travel the world to keep the show on the road always under intense pressure to perform and meet their own improvement targets.

That is utterly ridiculous and its probably the only thing I am in agreement with the teams on.

Its a recipe for disaster and could well plunge some of the smaller teams into financial problems with the increased costs. They would also surely have to change the regs on use of parts...or else they would have to be designed to last even longer.

Seems Liberty want to ride their horse until it breaks down.

I like the fact that there are breaks in the season...it makes the races more special when they do come around. Too much of anything is bad and could well turn off the punters.

I'd like to know where they plan on hosting these extra races, given that several of the traditional circuits have said its no longer viable for them to host races. If they go the Ecclestone route of getting new circuits built in far-flung places that have no motorsport tradition, they can look forward to more empty stands.

Just madness IMO.

The teams comments to the plans was that it shouldn't affect them financially because they would get additional funding associated with the funds the extra races bring in - but it will affect the personnel.  

Larger teams might be able to switch personnel to relieve pressure and burnout (sharing the workload out on race preparation and "race weekends") but key personnel would have unavoidable extra workload - and smaller teams would be less able to share out the workload.  

It has been mentioned that the "long race weekends" has been shortened to enable the possibility of more back to back races.  I think currently the equipment and team arrives Wednesday or Thursday, there are also publicity events on these days, then there is the Free Practice sessions on Friday, Final Practice session and qualifying Saturday, Race Sunday - then the packing up Sunday and shipping out to the next race or where-ever.

Albon confirmed at RB for 2020.

F1 also commits to being carbon neutral by 2030

Leclerc taking a 10 place grid penalty in Brazil this weekend for a new engine, ruling him out of the win anyway.

Vettel might beat him now

Just John wrote:Albon confirmed at RB for 2020.

F1 also commits to being carbon neutral by 2030

Nice to see that the carbon footprint figures they provided confirmed my thoughts about the sport. Nearly half the CO2 emissions are from logistics, flying / driving the equipment all over the world. About a quarter from personnel travel. Less than 1% from the actual race weekends.

F1 plans to offset emissions through a combination of replanting trees and using the engineering knowhow in the sport to develop new technologies that can capture carbon from the atmosphere.

It calculated the sport's total carbon emissions in 2018 as 256,551 tonnes, not including fans' transport to races, comprising:

- Logistics (road, air and sea freight) 45%
- Personnel travel 27.7%
- Factories and facilities 19.3%
- Events 7.3%
- Total F1 car emissions including all race and test mileage: 0.7%

So going back to 3 litre V8 or even V10 engines wouldn't make a significant difference. Maybe take it up to 2-3% at most.

Retain the energy recovery technology and make them as thermally efficient as possible...but lets hear them screaming at 18,000 rpm again!

I can see how the teams might make their factories and R&D work carbon neutral, but given there are no practical alternatives to flying, sailing or HGVs for hauling the gear around, I struggle to see how they will plant enough trees, or whatever, to offset those emissions.

Marky wrote:Leclerc taking a 10 place grid penalty in Brazil this weekend for a new engine, ruling him out of the win anyway.

Vettel might beat him now

Depends. Rain is quite common in Brazil. Pretty much ever since his maiden win for Toro Rosso, rain has not been Vettel's friend.

I wouldn't bet against Leclerc still finding a way past Seb - unless team orders come into effect.

Ridiculous SC decision, Bottas couldn’t off parked that more safely. Expect Hamilton will be a sitting duck now, with Verstappen on fresh rubber. Merc pretty much had nothing to lose though.

Ferrari’s have taken each other out

Could be a Honda powered 1-2-3

Verstappen wins
Gasly 2nd
Hamilton 3rd (potential penalty)

not the best piece of driving from albon it must be said.

Well that was a pretty boring race for the most part - apart from the two Safety Cars. First one, as John said, was utterly ridiculous and wasted precious laps that could have been spent racing.

Second one caused by Vettel sabotaging Ferrari's entire race, hitting Leclerc's front wheel, breaking Charles' suspension and giving himself a puncture.

Replays show Leclerc held his line...Vettel just should have moved over a few more inches.

Congrats Red Bull...they seemed to have a clear performance advantage in Brazil, judging from the way Verstappen breezed past Hamilton twice.

Albon really unlucky not to earn his first podium. Defending against Hamilton, he left the door open through a corner, Lewis dived in, Alex belatedly tried to stop him and got shunted off track for his pains.

Mercedes' engine really seemed to struggle for power. Bottas retired with a blown engine after trying to get past Leclerc for lap after lap. Lewis had to settle for 3rd (pending investigation) after being unable to out-drag Gasly down the straight on the final lap. Just 0.1 sec in it in the end.

Sainz had a pretty quiet race but took advantage of the carnage further up the track to finish 4th. Norris coming in 8th made it another decent race for McLaren.

Fantastic result for Alfa with Kimi & Gio finishing 5th and 6th.

Ricciardo 7th for Renault.

sainz on the podium.

TR now lead Renault by a point in the constructors

When you are a piece of garbage like Hamilton only relevant because of the most dominant car in F1 history. Talentless dosser.

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:When you are a piece of garbage like Hamilton only relevant because of the most dominant car in F1 history. Talentless dosser.

Tell me....How did your hero Seb do today? Oh of course he totally wrecked his team-mate, his and Ferrari's race.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:When you are a piece of garbage like Hamilton only relevant because of the most dominant car in F1 history. Talentless dosser.

Tell me....How did your hero Seb do today? Oh of course he totally wrecked his team-mate, his and Ferrari's race.

At least the "talentless dosser" managed to finish the race.

Natty Jac must be having lots of fun wallowing in his bowl of salt.

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:When you are a piece of garbage like Hamilton only relevant because of the most dominant car in F1 history. Talentless dosser.

Tell me....How did your hero Seb do today? Oh of course he totally wrecked his team-mate, his and Ferrari's race.

Being Scottish, a wasteland of a nation, I’d be embarrassed to even open my mouth.

dyrewolfe wrote:

CaledonianCraig wrote:

Nathaniel Jacobs wrote:When you are a piece of garbage like Hamilton only relevant because of the most dominant car in F1 history. Talentless dosser.

Tell me....How did your hero Seb do today? Oh of course he totally wrecked his team-mate, his and Ferrari's race.

At least the "talentless dosser" managed to finish the race.

Natty Jac must be having lots of fun wallowing in his bowl of salt.

The talentless dosser robbed F1 of its first Thai podium winner. Now pipe down you imbecile

My apologies or this being locked until today. I locked it whilst I was away and didn't have the time to do what was needed to clean it up, but forgot and it wasn't looked at by anyone else.

The poster who forced that to happen has been banned for a stretch. It would not surprise me if he returns under another guise.

that seemed unlikely

Robert Kubica close to becoming reserve driver for Racing Point for, 2020. Bringing PKN Orlen sponsorship with him.

Just John wrote:Robert Kubica close to becoming reserve driver for Racing Point for, 2020. Bringing PKN Orlen sponsorship with him.

Thats good to hear.

He may not be able to race any more, but I guess he can still provide valuable feedback in testing...and the sponsorship money will ease the strain on Stroll Sr's bank account.

probably a bigger strain caused by flushing prize money down the toilet by having his son in the car

Canadian Nicholas Latifi will replace Robert Kubica in the Williams driver line-up for 2020

Bottas to start the Abu Dhabi GP at the back of the grid, after his engine blew up in Brazil.

Also has some personal issues to contend with as he and his wife have separated, due to the "challenges of his career".

Just John wrote:
Canadian Nicholas Latifi will replace Robert Kubica in the Williams driver line-up for 2020

He was runner up in this season's F2 championship and has taken part in some practice sessions, so he's not totally unfamiliar with F1 cars.

Lets hope he's more Jaques Villeneuve and less Lance Stroll.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Just John wrote:
Canadian Nicholas Latifi will replace Robert Kubica in the Williams driver line-up for 2020

He was runner up in this season's F2 championship and has taken part in some practice sessions, so he's not totally unfamiliar with F1 cars.

Lets hope he's more Jaques Villeneuve and less Lance Stroll.

Why would you hope that he's not as good as The Almighty Lance Stroll?

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

Just John wrote:
Canadian Nicholas Latifi will replace Robert Kubica in the Williams driver line-up for 2020

He was runner up in this season's F2 championship and has taken part in some practice sessions, so he's not totally unfamiliar with F1 cars.

Lets hope he's more Jaques Villeneuve and less Lance Stroll.

Why would you hope that he's not as good as The Almighty Lance Stroll?

My boy Lance!

Hamilton pole
Verstappen 2nd
Leclerc 3rd
Vettel 4th
Albon 5th

Norris outqualifies Sainz over the season 11-10

Leclerc being investigated after the race for a ‘significant’ fuel infringement.

Good Golly I'm Olly wrote:

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:

Just John wrote:
Canadian Nicholas Latifi will replace Robert Kubica in the Williams driver line-up for 2020

He was runner up in this season's F2 championship and has taken part in some practice sessions, so he's not totally unfamiliar with F1 cars.

Lets hope he's more Jaques Villeneuve and less Lance Stroll.

Why would you hope that he's not as good as The Almighty Lance Stroll?

My boy Lance!

Would I be right in thinking your interest in him has nothing to do with his racing ability (or lack thereof)?

Just John wrote:Leclerc being investigated after the race for a ‘significant’ fuel infringement.

You have to think thats going to mess with his head all through the race. Ferrari have been suspected of messing with their fuel flow rates for a while. Wonder if its finally going to bite them in the bum?

Hoping for a good Hamilton / Verstappen / Leclerc duel at the front nonetheless.

No DRS for nearly the first half of the race. Interesting to see drivers have to work for their overtakes.

God Verstappen is a whiny sod sometimes!


Welp. Fairly routine lights to flag race for Hamilton. Gets the Grand Slam of Pole, Win & Fastest Lap. Good comeback drive by Bottas to finish 4th. Got very close to Leclerc in the laps couple of laps.

Surprisingly ordinary race for Ferrari (Leclerc's fuel shenanigans notwithstanding). Provisional podium for Charles and 5th for Vettel.

Pretty lonely race for Verstappen, aside from a couple of early tussles with Hamilton & Leclerc. Lots of complaining over the radio, but didn't seem to have any obvious problems, finishing a fairly isolated 2nd. Another decent race for Albon. Was running 5th for a long time, but got passed by Vettel late on.

Both McLarens in the points again.

Bit of an anti-climax to the season. No major rule changes for next season, but we can only hope Ferrari & Red Bull close the gap the Mercedes still further.

Ferrari fined €50,000 for the fuel discrepancy (which was 4.88kg). Leclerc remains on the podium, and keeps hold of third.

As for the race, an emphatic win from LH/Mercedes. Clear sign of how the FIA’s TD’s on engine/fuel flow rates has cost Ferrari at the back end of the season, even Bottas managed to embarrass them from the back of the grid, without the need of a SC.

Hamilton neither confirming or denying he is interested in joining Ferrari in 2021. Toto Wolff being equally evasive.

Fernando Alonso dropped a heavy hint during the post race interviews, that he would be open to a return to F1 in 2021. His current focus is another Indy 500 attempt next year.

dyrewolfe wrote:Another decent race for Albon. Was running 5th for a long time, but got passed by Vettel late on.

Have to disagree with you on Albon. 6th in a Red Bull is no achievement when his teammate in the same car was 2nd. He ran 5th for ages because Bottas started last and then Vettel changed strategy. He needs to up his game next season significantly.

Average qualifying pace difference over season, where fair comparison possible. Fastest driver first
HAM +0.122 BOT
LEC +0.114 VET
VER +0.485 GAS
VER +0.433 ALB
SAI +0.022 NOR
RIC +0.12 HUL
KVY +0.005 ALB
GAS +0.324 KVY
PER +0.212 STR
RAI +0.041 GIO
MAG +0.155 GRO
RUS +0.589 KUB

Agree with, Marky. Whereas Gasly was just AWOL, Albon has at least delivered the bare-minimum, consistently. That’s not really something to shout about, though. Albon is no more than a #2, consistently in no-mans land in sixth, just waiting to capitalise on a Mercedes, Ferrari or Max, to have some mis-fortune. Needs to step up next season.

As for Hamilton’s future, it depends whether he wants to enhance that legacy at a third constructor, (Ferrari), or stay loyal to the Mercedes family. Could even throw in a curve ball, and go back to a resurgent McLaren, which wouldn’t jeopardise his relationship with Mercedes engines. I’m am convinced though that Toto Wolff will leave his position and seek a new challenge for, 2021, hence the ‘working on other projects’ and missing the race in Interlagos. Could play a huge role in Hamilton’s decision.

I've thought for a while now that the merry go round will happen, Verstappen to Mercedes, Hamilton to Ferrari, Vettel back to Red Bull. 2021 seems the most likely time that happens, new regulations, but also the last chance for that to happen before Lewis and Seb get too old.

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Another decent race for Albon. Was running 5th for a long time, but got passed by Vettel late on.

Have to disagree with you on Albon. 6th in a Red Bull is no achievement when his teammate in the same car was 2nd. He ran 5th for ages because Bottas started last and then Vettel changed strategy. He needs to up his game next season significantly.

You what?

This was Albon's ROOKIE season. He spent the first half of it with Toro Rosso, getting bumped up to RB after Gasly failed to deliver.

Verstappen is both more experienced (had more time with the team and the car) and is a better driver.


I'm sure Horner (or someone) will sit down with Alex over the winter and tell him they expect more progress next season. I'm sure Alex expects it himself.


As it is, he scored 16 points over 11 races for Toro Rosso, before gaining 92 points over 10 races for Red Bull. Not bad for your first season.

dyrewolfe wrote:

Marky wrote:

dyrewolfe wrote:Another decent race for Albon. Was running 5th for a long time, but got passed by Vettel late on.

Have to disagree with you on Albon. 6th in a Red Bull is no achievement when his teammate in the same car was 2nd. He ran 5th for ages because Bottas started last and then Vettel changed strategy. He needs to up his game next season significantly.

You what?

This was Albon's ROOKIE season. He spent the first half of it with Toro Rosso, getting bumped up to RB after Gasly failed to deliver.

Verstappen is both more experienced (had more time with the team and the car) and is a better driver.


I'm sure Horner (or someone) will sit down with Alex over the winter and tell him they expect more progress next season. I'm sure Alex expects it himself.


As it is, he scored 16 points over 11 races for Toro Rosso, before gaining 92 points over 10 races for Red Bull. Not bad for your first season.

Compare his rookie season to that of Hamilton, Verstappen, Leclerc...

Also, I've not said he has done a bad job, I just wouldn't call some of his performances decent when they were average at best. In that car, with no reliability or incidents elsewhere, 6th place is the bare minimum for him to achieve. Excluding Bottas from the conversation, who charged from last to fourth and would have challenged Lewis in the race, Albon's teammate finished comfortably ahead of both Ferrari's while he finished comfortably behind both of them. That says a lot to me.

dyrewolfe wrote:... Fairly routine lights to flag race for Hamilton. Gets the Grand Slam of Pole, Win & Fastest Lap ...

Hamilton also led the race from start to finish (led every lap) and broke the track record.

With regard Albon the general consensus is he performed better than Gasly at Red Bull.  That he was better on race day than in qualifying.  In racing he was bolder in his overtakes than Gasly.  And Red Bull are happy with his feedback in improving the car set up for the race weekend and in general. This was also Albon's rookie season.  The Red Bull car has been designed for Verstappen (he has been with Red Bull for nearly four season) and Verstappen is probably one of those generational quality drivers.  Albon should have got a podium finish in Brazil but was unfortunately taken out by Hamilton (Albon blindsided).  

Gasly on returning back to Toro Rosso has performed really well - his driving style suits that car better than the Red Bull.  His second place finish at Brazil was really nice.  He had a very difficult time at Red Bull but always presented himself with dignity and without outward emotion.  However the emotional dam broke when crossing the line in second place at Brazil.  

LeClerc has shown himself to be of the quality of a Verstappen and has outperformed Vettel in his rookie season with Ferrari.  LeClerc's record in the earlier stages of his young career (e.g. F2 & GP3) is one of outstanding performance and improvement.

Sainz and Perez have also performed exceptionally well this season.  Lando Norris has performed very well in his rookie season.  Unfortunately for George Russell he was in an underperforming Williams this season but he is believed to be a great talent.

No name Bertie wrote:Albon should have got a podium finish in Brazil but was unfortunately taken out by Hamilton (Albon blindsided).

We all know that until Bottas had some unreliability and the Ferrari's took each other out, Albon was (checks notes) 6th again.

No name Bertie wrote:With regard Albon the general consensus is he performed better than Gasly at Red Bull.  That he was better on race day than in qualifying.  In racing he was bolder in his overtakes than Gasly.  And Red Bull are happy with his feedback in improving the car set up for the race weekend and in general. This was also Albon's rookie season.  The Red Bull car has been designed for Verstappen (he has been with Red Bull for nearly four season) and Verstappen is probably one of those generational quality drivers.  Albon should have got a podium finish in Brazil but was unfortunately taken out by Hamilton (Albon blindsided).  

Gasly on returning back to Toro Rosso has performed really well - his driving style suits that car better than the Red Bull.  His second place finish at Brazil was really nice.  He had a very difficult time at Red Bull but always presented himself with dignity and without outward emotion.  However the emotional dam broke when crossing the line in second place at Brazil.  

LeClerc has shown himself to be of the quality of a Verstappen and has outperformed Vettel in his rookie season with Ferrari.  LeClerc's record in the earlier stages of his young career (e.g. F2 & GP3) is one of outstanding performance and improvement.

Sainz and Perez have also performed exceptionally well this season.  Lando Norris has performed very well in his rookie season.  Unfortunately for George Russell he was in an underperforming Williams this season but he is believed to be a great talent.

Agree with pretty much all of this - I think Perez has over the last 5 years proven himself to be consistently the best of the rest, and I do wonder whether he now regrets having had the opportunity as McLaren come up so early in his career, before he was quite ready. I think Sainz is likely to end up in a similar position, as team leader of a better midfield team rather than getting the big chance in a top 3 team.

Albon has been pretty good rather than spectacular since moving to the RB - certainly did enough to justify a new contract, but needs to find at least 0.2s per lap of outright pace next season. He's shown some good signs as a wheel to wheel racer, but the question would be whether he is quite there in absolute speed (kind of the opposite of Vettel - fantastically fast on a clear track, but makes too many mistakes overtaking). Obviously, Max V is one of the toughest drivers to test yourself against, as there is little doubt that at times he out-performs the car.

Obviously, Leclerc has proven himself in this one season - faster in qualifying than Vettel and beating him in the championship, even with a couple of occasions where luck didn't go his way (Bahrain for one). It will be interesting over the next few years as he and Max develop and take the crown from the now ageing Hamilton and Vettel.