Using the new rules

Can't seem to find a YouTube link, but there is a video of a golfer "using" the new rules to help him make a shot. He is behind a tree and chips it up sideways and hits it again in the air when the ball is now no longer in line with the tree. If you search for Pinjarra Golf club on Facebook and then look at their videos, it's the one with Jason Chellew. It's not really using the rules as it's not an accidental hit. But skillful

There are loads of videos on instagram of people doing this. For example holein1trickshots using it to hole out from behind a tree.

As you say, an intentional hit still carries a 2 stroke penalty. But it is fun.

Does anybody have any views on the new rules?

I've played twice so far this year. I've not had to drop a ball yet, but I have kept the flag stick in a few times on the green.

I had a look on the golf monthly forum yesterday and there was a thread with 400 posts on putting with the flag in. Not sure how you can sustain such a long conversation about such a specific topic. Some people must be really bored.

raycastleunited wrote:Not sure how you can sustain such a long conversation about such a specific topic. Some people must be really bored.

You've seen a super_realist tirade against John Terry haven't you?

My mind was made up re the flag when somebody linked to an article about a putting expert who experimented with a putting machine and found more putts went in with the flag in.

I'm never wrong wrote:My mind was made up re the flag when somebody linked to an article about a putting expert who experimented with a putting machine and found more putts went in with the flag in.

I think the biggest impact is psychological. Some people will feel more confident putting with the flag in because they believe the flag provides a backstop. Some people will feel the hole looks smaller with the flag in so feel more confident with the flag out.

Under the old rules, we've all seen pro's chipping with the flag out when off the green. There must be a reason to do this.

Having putted with the flag in over the last couple of weeks, I have to say that putting with the flag in from distance is far less distracting than having somebody tending the pin.

super_realist wrote:Having putted with the flag in over the last couple of weeks, I have to say that putting with the flag in from distance is far less distracting than having somebody tending the pin.

This. Can see it from (reasonable) distance, or on slick downhillers, but for a 6 footer? Nah.

Also seen that Navy, having the pin in on something with a slight break can be eradicated by having the pin in, and hitting it with enough pace to take the break out.

I don't see this as something which is going to speed the game up at all really. Once the pin is out, I think it should remain so.


I know a couple of people on Rules at the R&A and apparently they've had a lot of testing done on their behalf, but not sure how it works in practice in terms of time over a round.

Depends for me on how scheize the pin hole is and how much the pin leans. If it were stock still in the middle and the flag wasn't flapping then in is fine. That doesn't happen much here, so most of them will be pin out!

super_realist wrote:Once the pin is out, I think it should remain so.

Agreed. It has speeded up the game in my social group, but perhaps that's because we're rubbish.

super_realist wrote:Having putted with the flag in over the last couple of weeks, I have to say that putting with the flag in from distance is far less distracting than having somebody tending the pin.

I can't imagine ever asking for the flag to be tended again.

What was the BDC drop thing about? Did he try and bend the new drop rules or something?

Leaving the pin in definitely speeds up play.

Some of the time saved is used up by people tapping down spike marks though.

George1507 wrote:Leaving the pin in definitely speeds up play.

Some of the time saved is used up by people tapping down spike marks though.

Agreed - definitely speeds up play.

I've not seen a lot of spike mark repairing so far. Maybe because all our events are NQ at the moment, people aren't taking it too seriously. Or maybe because it's been so dry in the south east our greens are much firmer than usual.

The problem comes with people putting it back in. If the first player has it out, the seconnd back in, the 3rd takes it out and the fourth player has it back in, then it's not quicker.

The rules are all a bit new now so i suspect people that are far away and putting up will do it with the flag in and once they are 20 feet or so away they will pull the flag which is exactly what the rule was put in place for. But I agree with super... Pretty soon we will fragment into groups that like to putt with the flag in for certain lenght putt and down hill putts, down grain putts and just cause it looked a bit quick putts.

Lets face it putting is all in the head so if i get it into my head that I will miss 1% less putts from 5 feet if i putt with the flag in then you can hardly begruge me asking for the flag to be putt back in.  So i do suspect we may see a lot of flags being put in and out on holes.

And plenty of comments "You know, I think that would have gone in if the flag was in/out!"

Here's a very very interesting article, with evidence that putting with the pin IN is the best thing to do.

https://mygolfspy.com/flagstick-in-flagstick-out-2019-new-golf-rules/

The width of the pin is key factor. I don't think there is any spec in the rules, it just has to be circular.

I'm sure we've all played on courses where the pin is so hefty that there's little room for the ball to fall in when the pin is left in.

Generally it's better to leave the pin in though. As someone old enough to remember golf before that rule was introduced, I reckoned you'd benefit far more often from leaving the pin alone than taking it out. Holes are far better these days too, the cup holds the pin with a sort of clutch arrangement. Years ago the pin was just held in a slot, it was much looser and the pin would whip around in the wind, especially the pins which were bamboo canes.

Bamboo George ? I'm oldish but I never saw a bamboo pin.
Overall I think golf authourites and rulemakers are clutching at straws to get numbers up.Golf is a longish game and needs patience as much as anything else.Making it slightly quicker isn't going to suddenly increase participation. Some rules changes for sure but the speed of play thing isnt the answer.

So, you can keep the pin in or take out. But for what reason was there a rule that you had to have the pin out anyway. Seems pretty pointless anyway.

dynamark wrote:Bamboo George ? I'm oldish but I never saw a bamboo pin.
Overall I think golf authourites and rulemakers are clutching at straws to get numbers up.Golf is a longish game and needs patience as much as anything else.Making it slightly quicker isn't going to suddenly increase participation. Some rules changes for sure but the speed of play thing isnt the answer.

Bamboo is still used at Caird Park in Dundee, a municipal course in the dodgier areas of the city. Burnt out cars, motorbike skids across the greens are common place. No rakes in bunkers and bamboo sticks as flagpoles as they are inexpensive to replace.

beninho wrote:So, you can keep the pin in or take out. But for what reason was there a rule that you had to have the pin out anyway. Seems pretty pointless anyway.

I don't remember why the penalty for hitting the pin rule was brought in. If I recall correctly it was about 1972. It might have had something to do with the R&A thinking that people were using the pin to stop fast downwind, downhill putts.

Repealed at the same time was a rule brought in about 1967 which decreed that putting was to be continuous (in stroke play). So if my ball was away, then I putted until I holed out. Then the next person putted until he holed out, and so on. That was a mistake (huge) because you trod on the lines of others and it took longer to hole out, precisely the opposite of what was intended.

Bamboo pins - still occasionally see them on courses in rural Scotland, and off the beaten path in South America and Africa, and Dundee apparently.

Very occasionally I've seen baskets instead of flags on pins. There's a US Open course that uses them too. Thing made of wicker shaped like a rugby ball. No idea why or what for.

George we has a similar muni one Western park in Leicester .really good course Hawtree design
now closed by city council as valuable development land.Burnt out cars one hole where you could be sure some scally would run out and nick your ball then try to sell it back.Rakes all missing real shame it had a long and distingusihed history as a club and all gone in an instant.Clubhouse was knocked down the week after it closed.Lot of us started our golf experience there queuing on Saturday morning full of hope and expectation.

dynamark wrote:George we has a similar muni one Western park in Leicester .really good course Hawtree design
now closed by city council as valuable development land.Burnt out cars one hole where you could be sure some scally would run out and nick your ball then try to sell it back.Rakes all missing real shame it had a long and distingusihed history as a club and all gone in an instant.Clubhouse was knocked down the week after it closed.Lot of us started our golf experience there queuing on Saturday morning full of hope and expectation.

Nice to see that you scallys had an honourable queuing system to nick and sell back balls...

Roller_Coaster wrote:

dynamark wrote:George we has a similar muni one Western park in Leicester .really good course Hawtree design
now closed by city council as valuable development land.Burnt out cars one hole where you could be sure some scally would run out and nick your ball then try to sell it back.Rakes all missing real shame it had a long and distingusihed history as a club and all gone in an instant.Clubhouse was knocked down the week after it closed.Lot of us started our golf experience there queuing on Saturday morning full of hope and expectation.

Nice to see that you scallys had an honourable queuing system to nick and sell back balls...

dynamark wrote:George we has a similar muni one Western park in Leicester .really good course Hawtree design
now closed by city council as valuable development land.Burnt out cars one hole where you could be sure some scally would run out and nick your ball then try to sell it back.Rakes all missing real shame it had a long and distingusihed history as a club and all gone in an instant.Clubhouse was knocked down the week after it closed.Lot of us started our golf experience there queuing on Saturday morning full of hope and expectation.

Did I hear that Park Hill GC near Leicester has closed as well? Times must be tough in Leicestershire.

George- Park Hill has been purchase by Leicester City FC as the site for their new training centre.
Originally tried to buy Forest Hill my club but some legal issues stopped that and Park Hill owner was happy to oblidge.Odd set up in that the landowner leased the course out to another company who ran the club.Decent very long course about 20 years old original course builder was the farmer who put every effort in but he sold it on.
From the football clubs side the golf club use got them well on the way to planning permission -leisure use traffic flows etc.Other clubs have mopped up the new members but there was a bit of aggravation as it closed very suddenly.