Cardiff Blues - Rugby Thread

[Newsilure]

I was going to comment on the other Blues thread but it seems to have more to do with football, names and bitterness than rugby.

This time last year I was very concerned about the Blues, we had a small and aging squad, our coach had announced his intention to quit and our financial situation looked precarious. The only, and huge, positive was that we were playing an attractive and reasonably successful brand of rugby. A year on the financial mire still hasn't improved but we have a much more vibrant youth led squad, a coach that seems to know what he is doing and we are still playing an attractive and reasonably successful brand of rugby.

To a degree we have done what the Scarlets did several years back and developed a good element of the team through a successful academy system and have also leaned heavily on  Pontypridd's continuing ability to produce rugby talent. After what seemed a millennium of relying on the great Tau Filise and the equally great, although more absent, Gethin, we seem to have created a promising prop factory with an excellent crop of young props including Dylan Lewis, Domachowski, Assiratti and the very entertaining Rhys Carre. Similarly this year it has been fantastic to see the young backs take centre stage with Jarrod Evans, Tomos Williams, Harry Millard, Owen Lane and the slightly more experienced Summerhill and Smith all progressing well.

Unfortunately, and again like the Scarlets, I am afraid we are going to find that the well of home grown talent, especially in the forwards, is unlikely to provide enough to challenge regularly at the top end of the Pro 14 let alone the European cup. This time last year we needed a dominant second row, an additional number 8 and a additional hooker, that is still the case. It looks like we might be joined by one or two international backs, such as Josh Adams and or Hallam Amos, which will be very welcome and will build on our entertaining style of play, but without  bolstering in the pack will they make much difference to the results? Scoring more tries is only good if you stop the opposition scoring lots as well, without that its pretty pointless, as just demonstrated very well by England compared to Wales in the 6 nations.

[mikey_dragon]

A coach that seems to know what he’s doing? Very questionable.

I couldn’t agree more with your comments regarding your young guys coming through, they all look like they have great potential, and even at their young and inexperienced age they look better than some of the older heads in the squad. You’re also correct about recruitment; hooker, lock and No8 being the obvious ones. Nick Williams brings so much to that pack despite being an old guy and they’re very reliant on him for some forward momentum - these should be treated as grave concerns.

Losing Anscombe is a grave concern too surely? Evans is already an excellent player but behind him is Shingler. Seeing guff like him, Dacey and Turnbull line up against Saracens would explain the score line in both fixtures.

[Newsilure]

A coach that seems to know what he’s doing? Very questionable.

I couldn’t agree more with your comments regarding your young guys coming through, they all look like they have great potential, and even at their young and inexperienced age they look better than some of the older heads in the squad. You’re also correct about recruitment; hooker, lock and No8 being the obvious ones. Nick Williams brings so much to that pack despite being an old guy and they’re very reliant on him for some forward momentum - these should be treated as grave concerns.

Losing Anscombe is a grave concern too surely? Evans is already an excellent player but behind him is Shingler. Seeing guff like him, Dacey and Turnbull line up against Saracens would explain the score line in both fixtures.

Mulvihill has done some good things, firstly he didn't come in with a radical new plan and chuck all the good stuff that was already in place out, instead he has continued to build on the style already in place. Secondly,  he has given a lot of young players a chance and yes perhaps he hasn't had a lot of choice in this but he has shown great consistency in giving them a long enough run to bed in and gain confidence and also he seems to make good judgements in introducing them only when they are ready and capable to play at regional level. The recent introduction of Shane Lewis Hughes has been driven by necessity but the boy was ready.

I see since yesterday that Josh Adams has signed for us, which is good and hopefully this will allow us to see if Owen Lane can be as or more effective in the centre. Yes loosing Anscombe would be a great blow but I think he has to stay in Wales and although I guess he could better guarantee playing at outside half for the Dragons or Ospreys, or even in North Wales, none of those options should be more attractive than staying with the Blues where he has already achieved his international ambitions. We have released Shingler so I assume we have a good deal of confidence in retaining Anscombe. Turnbull has been excellent for the Blues and while Dacey may not always be great he works hard and is easily the best hooker the Blues have … yes we need to recruit at hooker.

[PhilBB]

A coach that seems to know what he’s doing? Very questionable.

I couldn’t agree more with your comments regarding your young guys coming through, they all look like they have great potential, and even at their young and inexperienced age they look better than some of the older heads in the squad. You’re also correct about recruitment; hooker, lock and No8 being the obvious ones. Nick Williams brings so much to that pack despite being an old guy and they’re very reliant on him for some forward momentum - these should be treated as grave concerns.

Losing Anscombe is a grave concern too surely? Evans is already an excellent player but behind him is Shingler. Seeing guff like him, Dacey and Turnbull line up against Saracens would explain the score line in both fixtures.

Shingler's left. Your dislike of Mulvihill is, as ever, baseless.

They've tried to get at least one hooker and lock, but failed with both. If they lost Anscombe, they'll likely gain Priestland - as it stands. But it depends on which leg Unle Peter put first into his trousers this morning.

[PhilBB]

I see since yesterday that Josh Adams has signed for us, which is good and hopefully this will allow us to see if Owen Lane can be as or more effective in the centre. Yes loosing Anscombe would be a great blow but I think he has to stay in Wales and although I guess he could better guarantee playing at outside half for the Dragons or Ospreys, or even in North Wales, none of those options should be more attractive than staying with the Blues where he has already achieved his international ambitions. We have released Shingler so I assume we have a good deal of confidence in retaining Anscombe. Turnbull has been excellent for the Blues and while Dacey may not always be great he works hard and is easily the best hooker the Blues have … yes we need to recruit at hooker.

I think a backline of WilliamsT, Anscombe(perhaps), Adams, Halaholo, Lee Lo, Lane and Amos will be perfectly acceptable, should all be fit at the same time. There's decent enough half back cover and two good enough young centres in place in Smith and Millard (for back up). Ioan Davies is one they have high hopes for, too.

They are probably reliant on Arhip staying in order to keep the minimum 4 tight heads (plus development players like Ollie Drake and Will-Davies King), but they will need another loose head, a decent hooker and a gnarly second row if they want to compete with the best.

[PhilBB]

have also leaned heavily on  Pontypridd's continuing ability to produce rugby talent.

This bit, of course, isn't remotely close to the truth.

[LordDowlais]

have also leaned heavily on  Pontypridd's continuing ability to produce rugby talent.

This bit, of course, isn't remotely close to the truth.

I suggest you check how many of your academy are from places like Church Village and the likes, you cannot keep coming on here telling people they are lying or not telling the truth when you never have anything to back it up with.

[mikey_dragon]

A coach that seems to know what he’s doing? Very questionable.

I couldn’t agree more with your comments regarding your young guys coming through, they all look like they have great potential, and even at their young and inexperienced age they look better than some of the older heads in the squad. You’re also correct about recruitment; hooker, lock and No8 being the obvious ones. Nick Williams brings so much to that pack despite being an old guy and they’re very reliant on him for some forward momentum - these should be treated as grave concerns.

Losing Anscombe is a grave concern too surely? Evans is already an excellent player but behind him is Shingler. Seeing guff like him, Dacey and Turnbull line up against Saracens would explain the score line in both fixtures.

Mulvihill has done some good things, firstly he didn't come in with a radical new plan and chuck all the good stuff that was already in place out, instead he has continued to build on the style already in place. Secondly,  he has given a lot of young players a chance and yes perhaps he hasn't had a lot of choice in this but he has shown great consistency in giving them a long enough run to bed in and gain confidence and also he seems to make good judgements in introducing them only when they are ready and capable to play at regional level. The recent introduction of Shane Lewis Hughes has been driven by necessity but the boy was ready.

I see since yesterday that Josh Adams has signed for us, which is good and hopefully this will allow us to see if Owen Lane can be as or more effective in the centre. Yes loosing Anscombe would be a great blow but I think he has to stay in Wales and although I guess he could better guarantee playing at outside half for the Dragons or Ospreys, or even in North Wales, none of those options should be more attractive than staying with the Blues where he has already achieved his international ambitions. We have released Shingler so I assume we have a good deal of confidence in retaining Anscombe. Turnbull has been excellent for the Blues and while Dacey may not always be great he works hard and is easily the best hooker the Blues have … yes we need to recruit at hooker.

So you’re saying that a guy comes in and lives off the back of what Wilson did (which is what I was saying earlier in the season) and doesn’t progress it? As we haven’t seen much or any progress. It was a risk that a team like Cardiff would bring him in.

Adams is a good signing, I guess Amos will be too when that’s announced. Don’t underestimate the value of Nipper though, he makes things happen. Good news that Shingler is released, I just hope he doesn’t end up at the Dragons... I just don’t see it in Turnbull, always been a liability but seems to get a lot of praise for doing basics like tackling and rucking.

[PhilBB]

I suggest you check how many of your academy are from places like Church Village and the likes, you cannot keep coming on here telling people they are lying or not telling the truth when you never have anything to back it up with.

It's quite obvious and factual to note that Pontypridd RFC isn't producing professional players when players enter the academy at 14 and 15 years of age.

Why would something so blatantly obvious not be known to anybody with a passing interest? Why does that basic fact escape you, leading you to write the nonsense you just did?

[PhilBB]

So you’re saying that a guy comes in and lives off the back of what Wilson did (which is what I was saying earlier in the season) and doesn’t progress it? As we haven’t seen much or any progress. It was a risk that a team like Cardiff would bring him in.

Adams is a good signing, I guess Amos will be too when that’s announced. Don’t underestimate the value of Nipper though, he makes things happen. Good news that Shingler is released, I just hope he doesn’t end up at the Dragons... I just don’t see it in Turnbull, always been a liability but seems to get a lot of praise for doing basics like tackling and rucking.

I think that we've seen some real progress through the new talent introduced to the team and individual players playing far better. Despite this season losing three Lions to injury, plus Ellis Jenkins and others, the team is pushing hard for a play off place and automatic Champions Cup rugby.

Shingler is in France.

[LordDowlais]

I suggest you check how many of your academy are from places like Church Village and the likes, you cannot keep coming on here telling people they are lying or not telling the truth when you never have anything to back it up with.

It's quite obvious and factual to note that Pontypridd RFC isn't producing professional players when players enter the academy at 14 and 15 years of age.

Why would something so blatantly obvious not be known to anybody with a passing interest? Why does that basic fact escape you, leading you to write the nonsense you just did?

I have a family member who has come through the Blues North academy and is now in the the academy squad, and plenty of young players have been picked up for the academies through Pontypridd, Cardiff Blues rely heavily on the teams in and around the valleys, including Pontypridd.

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

[PhilBB]

I have a family member who has come through the Blues North academy and is now in the the academy squad, and plenty of young players have been picked up for the academies through Pontypridd, Cardiff Blues rely heavily on the teams in and around the valleys, including Pontypridd.

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

That's completely false.

Your nephew got in to the Academy through the Dewar Shield. His school. That is the pathway into the Academy. Nothing to do with the senior team of any club.

Kids aligned to M&J sections of all sorts of clubs come into the pathway via their school. It isn't "via Pontypridd" - even you wrote some guff about Church Village in your previous attempt at this.

[PhilBB]

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

Yes, some do. Mostly those who are kept as part of the A team squad as they need development to play first team rugby.

If you want a good example of this, Jacob Botica shone in the Welsh Premiership but can't get a game for the worst team in the PrO'14. Ditto Tiaan Loots.

[Stone Motif]

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

Yes, some do. Mostly those who are kept as part of the A team squad as they need development to play first team rugby.

If you want a good example of this, Jacob Botica shone in the Welsh Premiership but can't get a game for the worst team in the PrO'14. Ditto Tiaan Loots.

Botica and Loots are signing for the Kings? Happy days

[LordDowlais]

I have a family member who has come through the Blues North academy and is now in the the academy squad, and plenty of young players have been picked up for the academies through Pontypridd, Cardiff Blues rely heavily on the teams in and around the valleys, including Pontypridd.

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

That's completely false.

Your nephew got in to the Academy through the Dewar Shield. His school. That is the pathway into the Academy. Nothing to do with the senior team of any club.

Kids aligned to M&J sections of all sorts of clubs come into the pathway via their school. It isn't "via Pontypridd" - even you wrote some guff about Church Village in your previous attempt at this.

Nope.

Got picked up whilst playing for Abercynon, and now you will argue over this, even though you do not know him, or know anything about him.

[LordDowlais]

Toby Fricker has signed for Bristol Bears, from Ebbw as well, so it shows that Phil just talks tripe all the time.

[PhilBB]

But players do get pro contracts with pro clubs if they are playing well in the Welsh Prem thats a fact.

Yes, some do. Mostly those who are kept as part of the A team squad as they need development to play first team rugby.

If you want a good example of this, Jacob Botica shone in the Welsh Premiership but can't get a game for the worst team in the PrO'14. Ditto Tiaan Loots.

Botica and Loots are signing for the Kings? Happy days

As it stands, the Kings are above the Dragons, let's not forget.

[PhilBB]

Toby Fricker has signed for Bristol Bears, from Ebbw as well, so it shows that Phil just talks tripe all the time.

https://www.606v2.com/t68587-cardiff-blues-rugby-thread#3792946

Did you not read that post? Did you not read where I noted that some players do get picked from the WP? If you did, your subsequent post condemns you as a liar. If you didn't read the post, it shows that your opinion is missing some research.

So which is it?

[PhilBB]

Nope.

Got picked up whilst playing for Abercynon, and now you will argue over this, even though you do not know him, or know anything about him.

All I know right now is that, even judged on your actions in this thread alone, I don't believe you.

What I do know, however, is that this is how the academy pathway works at each of our pro teams: https://www.scarlets.wales/en/rugby/player-pathway/

[geoff999rugby]

Dare I ask as outsider how the set up is.

In Ireland the most promising players are picked up while still at school and enter the Provincial academies.
They are then assigned to a local club to get game time , as aged rugby and 'A' game rugby do not provide sufficient game time in a year.
Players who come direct from clubs are rare, so although most players have played for a club it cannot be said the club game was responsible for their development.

Is this the same as Wales, if not how does it differ

[LordDowlais]

It's not far from that in Wales Geoff, but there are anomalies, my nephew played for Merthyr at first, he didn't play for his school team though, but after seeing how things were at Merthyr, his parents decided to send him to play for Abercynon, where, a Cardiff Blues representative saw him and decided he should switch from the back row, and become a front row prop.

My Nephew is 17years old, six foot tall and built like a Greek god already, the recomendation from Cardiff Blues to change his position nearly put him off, but he stuck with it.

But to suggest he came through whatever system Phil is banging on about is rubbish.

[Newsilure]

Good to see the Grand Slammers commitment to the regions on both sides this Friday. Navidi in particular is just amazing, second highest tackler in the 6 nations and straight back into the starting line up, what a good bloke. I guess Anscombe's niggle(if he has one) is that he again has to start at full back, not because he is our second best outside half but because our second best outside half is marginally better than our best full back.  I guess if Hallam Amos does join the decision to play Jarrod and Gareth together is going to be a good bit harder.

Looks like its going to be a good game, our starting 15 looks stronger to me but they have a very strong bench.

[PhilBB]

It's not far from that in Wales Geoff, but there are anomalies, my nephew played for Merthyr at first, he didn't play for his school team though, but after seeing how things were at Merthyr, his parents decided to send him to play for Abercynon, where, a Cardiff Blues representative saw him and decided he should switch from the back row, and become a front row prop.

My Nephew is 17years old, six foot tall and built like a Greek god already, the recomendation from Cardiff Blues to change his position nearly put him off, but he stuck with it.

But to suggest he came through whatever system Phil is banging on about is rubbish.

You mean the system that the Scarlets publish on their website?

[PhilBB]

Just to continue this, here's a story about the player in question playing for Wales SCHOOLS having converted

http://abercynon.rfc.wales/news/fd3c5311-7c56-4d17-b0fa-3d333751bae8/congratulations-to-minis-product-garyn-phillips

Here he is having made it to the combined u16 squad, having made it through the part of the season when there are two squads (North and South) before the best players combine

https://www.cardiffblues.com/news/cardiff-blues-name-under-16s-squad

[PhilBB]

To confirm how the system works, here's the explanation (which mirrors that of the Scarlets) from the WRU owned Dragons

https://www.dragonsrugby.wales/news/2015/july/dragons-u16s-squads-announced.html

"Players were initially nominated by the WRU Regional Rugby Coordinators and lead District Coaches through their District U15s teams on the back of performances in the Dewar Shield competition."

[PhilBB]

Good to see the Grand Slammers commitment to the regions on both sides this Friday. Navidi in particular is just amazing, second highest tackler in the 6 nations and straight back into the starting line up, what a good bloke. I guess Anscombe's niggle(if he has one) is that he again has to start at full back, not because he is our second best outside half but because our second best outside half is marginally better than our best full back.  I guess if Hallam Amos does join the decision to play Jarrod and Gareth together is going to be a good bit harder.

Looks like its going to be a good game, our starting 15 looks stronger to me but they have a very strong bench.

Anscombe is likely to be starting at 15 as he hasn't trained with Cardiff Blues in over 2 months. It's wiser to go into the game with the more familiar player at 10.

[Newsilure]

Good to see the Grand Slammers commitment to the regions on both sides this Friday. Navidi in particular is just amazing, second highest tackler in the 6 nations and straight back into the starting line up, what a good bloke. I guess Anscombe's niggle(if he has one) is that he again has to start at full back, not because he is our second best outside half but because our second best outside half is marginally better than our best full back.  I guess if Hallam Amos does join the decision to play Jarrod and Gareth together is going to be a good bit harder.

Looks like its going to be a good game, our starting 15 looks stronger to me but they have a very strong bench.

Anscombe is likely to be starting at 15 as he hasn't trained with Cardiff Blues in over 2 months. It's wiser to go into the game with the more familiar player at 10.

True and he played most of the match last Saturday at 15 so he has brushed up on his positioning there. However its not just when Anscombe has been away that he has been chosen at full back, he has started there in several big matches this season, the exception being when we tried Jarrod at inside centre which I don't think is a great idea.

[mikey_dragon]

More excuses for Anscombe being ousted at fly-half, again.

If Blues aren't in the champions cup next season then is Mulvihill's first season considered a failure?

[PhilBB]

More excuses for Anscombe being ousted at fly-half, again.

If Blues aren't in the champions cup next season then is Mulvihill's first season considered a failure?

A man who can't realise the difference between an excuse and a reason is a man with a problem comprehending logic.

I'd say that a team so badly funded compared with others is doing well to be top or second Welsh team, despite the Ospreys and the Turks getting more from the WRU.

[PhilBB]

True and he played most of the match last Saturday at 15 so he has brushed up on his positioning there. However its not just when Anscombe has been away that he has been chosen at full back, he has started there in several big matches this season, the exception being when we tried Jarrod at inside centre which I don't think is a great idea.

Anscombe has started 3 games at 15.

He's started 9 at outside half.

And that's just for this season.

[mikey_dragon]

So Cardiff Blues have numerous internationals and have gone backwards under Mulvihill, fact. Still the usual one thinking everything is fine and rosy because of budget and playing numbers. Delusional.

[mikey_dragon]

Newsilure, I was thinking that if this is the official season thread then perhaps you could add in the squad, incoming signings, etc. ?

[Newsilure]

True and he played most of the match last Saturday at 15 so he has brushed up on his positioning there. However its not just when Anscombe has been away that he has been chosen at full back, he has started there in several big matches this season, the exception being when we tried Jarrod at inside centre which I don't think is a great idea.

Anscombe has started 3 games at 15.

He's started 9 at outside half.

And that's just for this season.

I am sure your correct with your numbers but the 3 he started at FB, with Jarrod at Outside Half, were Heineken Cup matches. I think that shows that when the chips are down. and Mulvehill needs all his best players on the pitch, Anscombe is likely to be at full back. As he will be in tomorrows crunch match.

However, I see Amos has now confirmed, so perhaps that will make it easier for Anscombe to nail down the 10 shirt in all matches as Amos is likely to be the FB of choice with Nipper and Jarrod on the bench.

[Newsilure]

Newsilure, I was thinking that if this is the official season thread then perhaps you could add in the squad, incoming signings, etc. ?

Ok mate, if I have time tomorrow I will do that.

[PhilBB]

So Cardiff Blues have numerous internationals and have gone backwards under Mulvihill, fact. Still the usual one thinking everything is fine and rosy because of budget and playing numbers. Delusional.

It would be interesting to see you list these "numerous internationals".

[PhilBB]

I am sure your correct with your numbers but the 3 he started at FB, with Jarrod at Outside Half, were Heineken Cup matches. I think that shows that when the chips are down. and Mulvehill needs all his best players on the pitch, Anscombe is likely to be at full back. As he will be in tomorrows crunch match.

However, I see Amos has now confirmed, so perhaps that will make it easier for Anscombe to nail down the 10 shirt in all matches as Amos is likely to be the FB of choice with Nipper and Jarrod on the bench.

http://www.cardiffrfcfans.com/analysis/appearances.php?clubID=1&seasonID=24 all the games are listed there. Anscombe started both of the games against Saracens at 10.

I think that you're right about Amos, but that's only if Anscombe stays. It will be a shame if he leaves as there'll be less need for him to play 15 next season now that they have a proper full back to select.

[mikey_dragon]

So Cardiff Blues have numerous internationals and have gone backwards under Mulvihill, fact. Still the usual one thinking everything is fine and rosy because of budget and playing numbers. Delusional.

It would be interesting to see you list these "numerous internationals".

You don't know your own team? Dear oh dear. Delusional and a little bit dim.

[RiscaGame]

Great first half Cardiff Blues. Well done on the sell out too. Great achievement, especially given the big event up the A470 tonight.

[mikey_dragon]

Amazing first half, and great competition for the back 3 next season. No excuses for JM next season; a team with those players should be flying.

[PhilBB]

So Cardiff Blues have numerous internationals and have gone backwards under Mulvihill, fact. Still the usual one thinking everything is fine and rosy because of budget and playing numbers. Delusional.

It would be interesting to see you list these "numerous internationals".

You don't know your own team? Dear oh dear. Delusional and a little bit dim.

I don't know why "numerous internationals" YOU THINK have "gone backwards under Mulvihill". How can I possibly know that when you lack the nuts to name them.

[mikey_dragon]

Phil why do you persist in changing the goal posts? I never said numerous internationals have gone backwards under Mulvihill, I said the team had done, so you've either misquoted or lied.

I questioned JMs appointment since before the season started, you know this. I believe the team has gone backwards since he came in, despite the fact the team was already built for him by Wilson. I've always stated that with the players available that Cardiff should be doing better, but they can't because of this coach. If you don't know who your own teams internationals are then I suggest you go onto the website and look at the squad.

[PhilBB]

Phil why do you persist in changing the goal posts? I never said numerous internationals have gone backwards under Mulvihill, I said the team had done, so you've either misquoted or lied.

I questioned JMs appointment since before the season started, you know this. I believe the team has gone backwards since he came in, despite the fact the team was already built for him by Wilson. I've always stated that with the players available that Cardiff should be doing better, but they can't because of this coach. If you don't know who your own teams internationals are then I suggest you go onto the website and look at the squad.

Right, so numerous internationals but the team has gone backwards.

I see.

And this is based on what, exactly? Greg Garner agreeing that refereeing decisions directly cost them victory in the first three games of the season?

Maybe it's the league table: this season they have 52 points from 18 games. Last season they ended up with 54 points from 21 games. Oh, hang on, the league table doesn't support your claim that they've gone backwards.

To confirm: they need two points from the remaining three games to have stood still. Three points to have progressed.

So where's your yardstick for this claim of "gone backwards"??

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah hooray, now you're getting it.

It's based on RESULTS and the performance at times hasn't looked good at all. Stop blaming the ref.

Last season they were 10 points ahead of the team below them and secured champions cup rugby, and were only one less win from the team above them. Given the fixture list it's plausible that Cardiff may lose the rest of their games this season - but I hope that you win them all for the sake of Welsh rugby, then it would be difficult to say that the team has gone backwards. Let us not forget that Cardiff won more games in Europe last season, and actually won the tournament... JM inherited this winning team and so far has been out of his depth.
This season you've been thrashed by Glasgow 4 times, that isn't improvement, sadly. Good to see you've stopped blaming it on budgets though, you've moved on to blaming refs. When Cardiff field their best team, a team packed with talented individuals, internationals; and they're playing against another good team with an equal amount of talent then your budget excuse doesn't stand up.

I also take it you finally looked at your squad, well done.

[PhilBB]

Yeah hooray, now you're getting it.

It's based on RESULTS and the performance at times hasn't looked good at all. Stop blaming the ref.

Last season they were 10 points ahead of the team below them and secured champions cup rugby, and were only one less win from the team above them. Given the fixture list it's plausible that Cardiff may lose the rest of their games this season - but I hope that you win them all for the sake of Welsh rugby, then it would be difficult to say that the team has gone backwards. Let us not forget that Cardiff won more games in Europe last season, and actually won the tournament... JM inherited this winning team and so far has been out of his depth.
This season you've been thrashed by Glasgow 4 times, that isn't improvement, sadly. Good to see you've stopped blaming it on budgets though, you've moved on to blaming refs. When Cardiff field their best team, a team packed with talented individuals, internationals; and they're playing against another good team with an equal amount of talent then your budget excuse doesn't stand up.

I also take it you finally looked at your squad, well done.

On results? Ok. If they lose the rest of the games they play this season, they will be 2 points worse off. Just two. As it stands, they could be 5 or more points better off at the end of the season, which would make a mockery of your judgement. Yes? Agreed?

They did win more games in Europe last season, but in the second tier competition. Were you aware of that?

I didn't "blame the ref", by the way. The boss of the referees - Greg Garner - did that. You know their boss. Their boss. Right? Do you understand this?

So I see that your claim on them having "gone backwards" is based on not winning a competition they hadn't qualified for and for being AT WORST two points off their league total from last year.

Dealing with the "when they pick their best team" argument, you're aware that this happens all too infrequently. Right? But that's not really important because the availability of the best team is the same season to season, so that's not a yardstick for having "gone backwards" or forwards. That's just a straw man.

So, if it is your genuine opinion that they have "gone backwards" when the only metric to show this is that they are 2 points off their league total from last year (with three games to go) then you appear to be quite the idiot. Really quite the idiot.

[mikey_dragon]

Yeah they will be worse off if they don't win any of their remaining games. They could also win and be better off, but then you would be discounting Europe. Last season Cardiff won the ECC and had to beat some good teams do it (they won more games). I know the champions cup is up a level but you were well off the pace against Glasgow and Sarries. So if you're discounting reality then your logic might work....

I see you're still blaming the ref.

No you're missing the point, or ignoring it. If both opposition teams can put out a competitive lineup, which was the case in Europe, then your budget argument doesn't work. There is no reason why a team like Cardiff should be that poor when they have such players available.

Let us not forget that it was Wilson who did a lot of work to bring Cardiff back to an acceptable pro standard and back in the top tier comp after you were run into the ground, JM has almost undone that but I guess it's okay because of the budget.

[PhilBB]

Yeah they will be worse off if they don't win any of their remaining games. They could also win and be better off, but then you would be discounting Europe. Last season Cardiff won the ECC and had to beat some good teams do it (they won more games). I know the champions cup is up a level but you were well off the pace against Glasgow and Sarries. So if you're discounting reality then your logic might work....

Right, dealing with this bit of gibberish.

You've claimed they've gone backwards but then admit that they might actually go forwards in the league, with three games to go. A wise intellect would note that you don't have the evidence to claim they've gone backwards for the reasons YOU just provided. It seems that you lack the wise intellect.

A wise intellect would also understand that doubling Lyon in the Champions Cup is a greater achievement than doubling them in the Challenge Cup, but that's also escaped you. As, it seems, the fact that Saracens and Glasgow are better teams than those playing in the Challenge Cup.

Therefore, the "reality" (for anybody sane), is that the Champions Cup is of a higher standard than the Challenge Cup. You know, that's why the better teams play in the Champions Cup and the weaker teams play in the Challenge Cup. You know, the very point of splitting two cups between stronger and weaker. That is the REALITY.

[PhilBB]

I see you're still blaming the ref.

I see that you're still a disingenuous liar.

Greg Garner is blaming the referee. Do you accept that? Greg Garner.

[PhilBB]

No you're missing the point, or ignoring it. If both opposition teams can put out a competitive lineup, which was the case in Europe, then your budget argument doesn't work. There is no reason why a team like Cardiff should be that poor when they have such players available.

"Competitive line up" is the most subject of pathetic wriggles. Well done.

Let's take the first game against Glasgow (a significantly better funded team). The team was missing Lane, Scully, Jenkins, Rees, Arhip, Davies and Navidi (before considering Warburton). The squad lacks the finances to adequately provide depth to cover those players being lost.

On to the game against Saracens (a hugely better funded team). That team was missing Lane, Lee Lo, Halaholo, Tom Williams, Jenkins, Rees, Dacey, Arhip, Ellis Jenkins, Navidi, Nick Williams: that's 11 players without Warburton.

So the actual proof is that Cardiff were well off able to put out their competitive team when they played vastly superior funded clubs (who have, therefore, more strength in depth).

So this, alongside the proof of the league points, further undermines your ludicrous claim of the club having "gone backwards".

Evidence, eh? It's a real bitch when it disproves the prejudice of thickos like you.

[PhilBB]

Let us not forget that it was Wilson who did a lot of work to bring Cardiff back to an acceptable pro standard and back in the top tier comp after you were run into the ground, JM has almost undone that but I guess it's okay because of the budget.

Almost undone that? He's two points behind with three games to play, you silly clown.

[LordDowlais]

I see that you're still a disingenuous liar.

Phil you cannot keep calling people who do not agree with what you say liars all the time. Especially when you are sometimes "loose" with the truth yourself.

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